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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Denver, CO - OTA
dkreichen1968's Avatar dkreichen1968 08:53 PM 02-21-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Given that it happens just on syndicated programs in the afternoon, there's always the possibility that it's in the syndication feeds 31 is recording, not in the 31 signal itself.

Do you ever see it on local commercials/local promos or just during the show itself?

I really doubt it is a broadcast signal issue.

On the other hand my Dynex HDTV seems to have issues decoding both KDVR and KXRM (both FOX affiliates).

The issues the OP is talking about are definitely primarily reception issues. The question is what is causing them.

pkeegan's Avatar pkeegan 11:28 AM 02-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Given that it happens just on syndicated programs in the afternoon, there's always the possibility that it's in the syndication feeds 31 is recording, not in the 31 signal itself.

Do you ever see it on local commercials/local promos or just during the show itself?

I have seen it in promos but more predominant in the shows.
MikeBiker's Avatar MikeBiker 02:28 PM 02-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC AVS View Post

I have it from a legitimate source that KBDI CPT-12 hopes to have their Boulder translator operating on digital channel 48 from the Marshall Road/Cherryvale site "in about 6-weeks."

Currently, both Denver-area public television stations operate translators atop Williams Village student-residential towers near US36 and Baseline Road in Boulder. RMPBS is digital channel 24, and CPT-12 is analog channel 11.

Is there any update available from your source as to how the Boulder translator in progressing? It's been about 5 weeks.
Iwanthd's Avatar Iwanthd 07:47 AM 02-26-2012
Are there any plans for KBDI Channel 12 to broadcast in HD?
TC AVS's Avatar TC AVS 12:58 PM 02-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Is there any update available from your source as to how the Boulder translator in progressing? It's been about 5 weeks.

I am told that they are now hoping to have a signal broadcasting from the "new" site by early-to-mid May.

Let's hope the red-tape that has been keeping them from progressing more quickly is behind them. The site in question should be a very good site for them.

TC AVS
TC AVS's Avatar TC AVS 01:10 PM 02-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwanthd View Post

Are there any plans for KBDI Channel 12 to broadcast in HD?


CPT-12 folks say they have plans to broadcast in HD, but have no timetable for the moment. I'm sure, as with any business capital expenses, it is all about the resources. From my conversation, it's certainly not for lack of desire.

TC AVS
kenavs's Avatar kenavs 08:06 PM 03-09-2012
I haven't been able to pick up KETDD2, Virtual 53-2, Physical 45-4 for a while. I believe they were transmitting from a tower in Parker. It was showing the old KWHD programming which included some old TV programs like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, The Rifleman, and Daniel Boone. I did not watch it much, but I did tune in occasionally.

I was getting it pretty reliably, even though is a pretty good distance, and a few degrees off from where my antenna is aimed.

Has something changed?
Is anyone still receiving the station?
jsmar's Avatar jsmar 03:34 AM 03-11-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

I haven't been able to pick up KETDD2, Virtual 53-2, Physical 45-4 for a while. I believe they were transmitting from a tower in Parker. It was showing the old KWHD programming which included some old TV programs like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, The Rifleman, and Daniel Boone. I did not watch it much, but I did tune in occasionally.

I was getting it pretty reliably, even though is a pretty good distance, and a few degrees off from where my antenna is aimed.

Has something changed?
Is anyone still receiving the station?

I can still get them, but they are very weak. Signal quality is so low that they are constantly breaking up. I used to get them somewhat reliably, so I'm not sure what is happening. They applied to switch their antenna to Mt. Morrison, which should be better for me, but right now that is not the case. Perhaps they are in the middle of transitioning and have not finished the move (e.g. they put up something temporary in their old location while they move their primary equipment to Mt. Morrison).
meatwad666's Avatar meatwad666 12:16 PM 03-11-2012
I've in general been having poor reception on digital 7 and 9 in Stapleton. I made my antenna in June and it had flawless reception until late february and now I've had to reposition it occasionally.

Is there some atmospheric disturbance (these solar flares) or something else going on that's affecting reception?
kenavs's Avatar kenavs 04:18 PM 03-11-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmar View Post

I can still get them, but they are very weak. Signal quality is so low that they are constantly breaking up. I used to get them somewhat reliably, so I'm not sure what is happening. They applied to switch their antenna to Mt. Morrison, which should be better for me, but right now that is not the case. Perhaps they are in the middle of transitioning and have not finished the move (e.g. they put up something temporary in their old location while they move their primary equipment to Mt. Morrison).

UNBELIEVABLE

I just went back to the FCC query page for KETD. The first time I looked, I focused on the "Licensed" info, which pointed to the Parker transmitter.

This time I looked at the "Application" and "Modification of Construction Permit" info. Those point to a location on Mt Morrison, as you suggested. The Longitude and Latitude match the KRMA Mt Morrison transmitter. A key parameter: "Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 8. meters AGL ". I am virtually certain that is the INFAMOUS KRMA ICE-BRIDGE LOCATION. It is hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a broadcast engineer would use that site without doing a little research.

Based on the KRMA experience, that location provides terrible coverage to several degrees in a generally north direction from the transmitter. The bad coverage included the Ls (Louisville, Lafayette, Longmont, and Loveland) and I suspect much of Fort Collins. I believe the problem is that the ground, and the old KPXC transmitter building, in that direction, are higher than the antenna site. I suspect that if they just climbed onto the Ice-Bridge they would realize that they can't see the horizon over the top of the old KPXC building.

I don't see anything on the FCC KETD qwery to indicate the situation is temporary. If that is the case, I don't expect to be able to watch KEDT-2 any more. This is not a huge loss, but it is still annoying.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 05:02 PM 03-11-2012
The three-year clock was running out. They had to put something on the air on channel 45 before it expired. They may very well put it up as specified in the permit and then file for something better once it's licensed. I've seen it happen before.

- Trip
dkreichen1968's Avatar dkreichen1968 11:00 AM 03-12-2012
I saw channel 53 pop up on my DTVpal DVR, but I thought it was just a transient from the Parker/Castle Rock Transmitter. Do remember that KRMA is moving to Lookout Mountain, so the KRMA tower will be open. It would be nice to have the KWHS programming available since my current antenna doesn't pull in KWHS from Cheyenne Mountain.
kenavs's Avatar kenavs 03:40 PM 03-12-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

The three-year clock was running out. They had to put something on the air on channel 45 before it expired. They may very well put it up as specified in the permit and then file for something better once it's licensed. I've seen it happen before.

- Trip

It still bothers me that the FCC publishes contour maps for KETD (and KRMA before that) which have no basis in reality. I realize that the contour map was probably generated by rules established by the FCC, but as a Dickens character said "If the law supposes that," "the law is a ass- a idiot".

While it is not my area of expertise, I suspect that when a transmitting antenna is only 8m (roughly 25 feet) above ground level, it is silly to use a calculation that ignores nearby obstructions. If this was someone making claims about a product they were selling, I believe many consumers would view it as fraud.
I hope no one wastes their time and/or money trying to receive that signal based on the misinformation on the FCC website.

After-thought: Actually, someone is selling a product here. KETD is selling marketing service to their advertisers. If the broadcast engineer is not aware of the hole, he is incompetent. How could he not research why KRMA abandoned the ice-bride antenna, at significant cost. If he knew, and did not tell the station, I would consider it to be a betrayal of his professional responsibilities. If the station knows about the coverage hole, and does not inform the advertisers, I would consider that to be deceptive practice. Actually, I believe they were morally obligated to inform the existing advertisers when they move to the new antenna, since the advertisers may be losing coverage in areas critical to their business.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 04:43 PM 03-12-2012
The contours were established in the 1950s before computers allowed for accurate computation of coverage areas. They use fixed points at distances of 5, 10, 15, and 20 miles out in each direction to determine the contour distance in that direction. If your station is at 5,000 feet, there is a 10,000 foot mountain at 2 miles, and the terrain is 1,000 feet at 5 miles, it ignores the presence of the 10,000 foot mountain and acts like it's 4,000 feet above the terrain at that 5-mile distance, more or less.

Longley-Rice does a much better job, but cannot account for obstructions such as buildings that do not exist in topographic maps. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1490211&map=Y

- Trip
dkreichen1968's Avatar dkreichen1968 03:43 PM 03-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatwad666 View Post

I've in general been having poor reception on digital 7 and 9 in Stapleton. I made my antenna in June and it had flawless reception until late february and now I've had to reposition it occasionally.

Is there some atmospheric disturbance (these solar flares) or something else going on that's affecting reception?

Since 7 and 9 seem to be your problem channels, what type of antenna did you build? 7, 9 and 12 (RF13, KBDI) are the Denver channels currently on VHF and really need a bigger antenna than what will work for the rest of the channels (which are on UHF). I can't explain the change in your reception. My reception for 7 and 9 has been rock solid.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 10:16 PM 03-14-2012
As I suggested could happen the other day, KETD has filed for a different facility at 1000 kW at the 120 foot level on the tower.

- Trip
kenavs's Avatar kenavs 10:44 PM 03-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

As I suggested could happen the other day, KETD has filed for a different facility at 1000 kW at the 120 foot level on the tower.

- Trip

OK. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I guess I over-reacted.
That should be plenty of elevation to clear the local obstructions.
I hope it does not take too long to implement.
It is unfortunate for the station and the effected viewers that they were not able to go directly to that configuration from the Parker transmitter.
TC AVS's Avatar TC AVS 05:51 PM 03-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

It still bothers me that the FCC publishes contour maps for KETD (and KRMA before that) which have no basis in reality.

------

KETD is selling marketing service to their advertisers. If the broadcast engineer is not aware of the hole, he is incompetent. How could he not research why KRMA abandoned the ice-bride antenna, at significant cost.

The FCC contours are more useful in the context of being contours for what I might term as FCC protected coverage areas -- protected against frequency interference. Longley-Rice mapping is the more useful tool for projecting signal coverage, taking in to account height above ground level & average terrain, and antenna pattern and ERP at the point of origination. It further considers distance and terrain among other factors to calculate tiers of reception possibilities at the point of reception. Softwares such as V-Soft can perform this mapping.

I don't think it is accurate to say the KRMA abandoned the ice bridge at the one Mt. Morrison site. There was an agreement in place all along that when KTVD-20 removed their transmission facilities from the site, and moved over to Lookout Mountain, KRMA would take over the KTVD-20 spot on the tower. The ice-bridge was slated as a temporary location for KRMA from the beginning, and during the period of simultaneous analog/digital broadcasting.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 07:46 PM 03-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC AVS View Post

Longley-Rice mapping is the more useful tool for projecting signal coverage, taking in to account height above ground level & average terrain, and antenna pattern and ERP at the point of origination. It further considers distance and terrain among other factors to calculate tiers of reception possibilities at the point of reception. Softwares such as V-Soft can perform this mapping.

RabbitEars has such maps for almost every station in the US and parts of Canada.

- Trip
meatwad666's Avatar meatwad666 05:36 PM 03-30-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post


Since 7 and 9 seem to be your problem channels, what type of antenna did you build? 7, 9 and 12 (RF13, KBDI) are the Denver channels currently on VHF and really need a bigger antenna than what will work for the rest of the channels (which are on UHF). I can't explain the change in your reception. My reception for 7 and 9 has been rock solid.

It's a fractal dipole tuned somewhere towards the high side of VHF. I think I posted schematics in this thread earlier (I'm on my phone so it's laborious to check back).

I know the antenna isn't ideal, but as you concluded your comment, it's odd that it was flawless through summer and fall and now it's shaky on those channels. I can still get then fine if I reposition the antenna, but it was nice to have it hidden behind a painting.

I'm a renter, so a roof/attic antenna is not an option.
dkreichen1968's Avatar dkreichen1968 03:38 PM 04-02-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatwad666 View Post

I know the antenna isn't ideal, but as you concluded your comment, it's odd that it was flawless through summer and fall and now it's shaky on those channels. I can still get then fine if I reposition the antenna, but it was nice to have it hidden behind a painting.

I'm a renter, so a roof/attic antenna is not an option.

If your in an apartment there is a good chance that your neighbors moving funiture or appliances may have changed your reception. Also, has there been any new construction in the neighborhood?
Wizard01's Avatar Wizard01 07:41 PM 04-05-2012
Anyone having issues getting KCDO Channel 28.3
Don_M's Avatar Don_M 07:53 PM 04-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard01 View Post

... problems getting KCDO Channel 28.3?

KLPD's signal (28.3 being a re-broadcast of KCDO) has been weak and spotty for several days now. Get used to it: This happens now and then. KLPD's transmitter is notoriously unreliable, and it can take them several days to several weeks to fix it. The owner is Syncom Media Group in case you'd like to give them an earful.
MikeBiker's Avatar MikeBiker 06:40 PM 05-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC AVS View Post

I am told that they are now hoping to have a signal broadcasting from the "new" site by early-to-mid May.

Let's hope the red-tape that has been keeping them from progressing more quickly is behind them. The site in question should be a very good site for them.

TC AVS

Any update on the Boulder translator schedule?
GE AVS's Avatar GE AVS 11:13 PM 05-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Any update on the Boulder translator schedule?

Re: KBDI (CPT12) - From "Viewer Buzz" 5/1/2012

"CPT12 Response:
We continue to inch closer and closer to completing our new digital translator in Boulder, though have continued to encounter both big and small obstacles along the way. As we speak, we are waiting for specifications from one of our antenna suppliers that will satisfy the uniquely-high wind load requirements in Boulder County. Once we have that information we can proceeding with finalizing our building permit and commence work. We are hopeful that the Boulder translator will be turned on in June.

On the positive side, all the equipment we need has been delivered or is awaiting our order to deliver it. We have our installation crews lined up and ready to go once we get the Boulder County approval. This has been the single longest technical project we have worked on at the station in the past several years, and has had more detours and stops than anyone here could imagine. The good news is that we will be on the best possible location and our translator will have the greatest possible reach of any the many sites we considered.

Thanks for your continued interest. We will personally email when we know the launch date.

Colorado Public Television
Technical Services"
Dave6833's Avatar Dave6833 10:10 AM 06-06-2012
I usually record Channel 2 news at 7:00 and watch it later. Last night (June 5) it wasn't on, just a banner saying there were "technical difficulties." Anybody know what kind of problems would keep them from doing their news cast?

BTW, the new forum layout looks good! smile.gif
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 11:19 AM 06-06-2012
Topics merged.
DJ Rob's Avatar DJ Rob 11:51 PM 06-06-2012
A friend I know there said their system had a total meltdown. I didn't ask exactly what but I'm assuming either a computer or board problem that is in their control room went down.
davelr's Avatar davelr 08:57 AM 06-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Topics merged.

Ok, I'll bite. I suppose it's an administrative maintenance thing, but what's "Topics Merged" mean? What effect does it have on the forum? Tnx
ADTech's Avatar ADTech 10:39 AM 06-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelr View Post

Ok, I'll bite. I suppose it's an administrative maintenance thing, but what's "Topics Merged" mean? What effect does it have on the forum? Tnx

That means he merged a misplaced topic into its correct location.

Usually, this happens when someone new washes ashore and just posts a new thread in an unfocused section rather than one that is more specific to the question. For example, posting a Denver-specific question in the "HDTV Technical" thread.

Keeps things tidier.
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