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post #8521 of 8543 Old 01-21-2015, 07:25 PM
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WTF, there is a 1080i KUSA 9 (9-4) feed riding on the channel 20 (RF19) signal. Channel 20 is now 720p (highly compressed). Here in Monument, I get channel 9 as good or better than channel 20 (RF19). Okay, in the city there may be a major difference, but I've always been able to receive high VHF, as well, or better, than UHF.

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post #8522 of 8543 Old 01-22-2015, 11:57 AM
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Five month "The Binge" schedule for "Decades" (KCNC 4-2). That is if they actually get it running anytime soon.

http://www.decades.com/file/DECADES_BINGE_Calendar.pdf

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post #8523 of 8543 Old 01-22-2015, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post
Five month "The Binge" schedule for "Decades" (KCNC 4-2). That is if they actually get it running anytime soon.

http://www.decades.com/file/DECADES_BINGE_Calendar.pdf

Decades, CBS4 Sub-Channel, Debuts This Friday
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/01/2...s-this-friday/
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post #8524 of 8543 Old 01-22-2015, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GE AVS View Post
Decades, CBS4 Sub-Channel, Debuts This Friday
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/01/2...s-this-friday/

I feel that it will beat the current MeTV for picture quality! Please everyone, contact KUSA/KTVD and tell them to fix MeTV/My20. 480i widescreen for 9-4, high quality 720p for My20, and high quality 480i for MeTV. Please, don't waste broadcast spectrum!!! If not, Decades on KCNC looks like an awesome alternative!!!

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post #8525 of 8543 Old 01-25-2015, 10:44 AM
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Note that MyNetwork is distributed in 720p so KTVD was always transcoding it to 1080i.

However it's now horrifically compressed to make room for the new duplicate KUSA signal mapped to 9-4.

The programming on Decades so far looks much better than what was shown on Me or Antenna.

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post #8526 of 8543 Old 01-27-2015, 08:41 AM
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"9NEWS has been "tinkering under the hood" with our digital signal. Actually, our team of engineers has been working with new technology to improve both the strength and quality of the 9NEWS signal for those who may have had a tough time watching us with their antenna. These improvements are through the testing phase and are ready for our viewers to enjoy. But you have to rescan to get those
benefits."

Now if only KMGH-DT 7 would do the same thing.

An earlier post mentioned that KMGH ran a little more power than KUSA. I can only see KMGH ONLY through the DVD Tuner. The Panasonic "Vieria" (50" plasma) "sees" KMGH at an 88% signal level but is unable to display the picture because the unit instead displays "poor signal quality." SUX!
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post #8527 of 8543 Old 01-27-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Talker;31208977
An earlier post mentioned that KMGH ran a little more power than KUSA. I can only see KMGH [I
ONLY[/I] through the DVD Tuner. The Panasonic "Vieria" (50" plasma) "sees" KMGH at an 88% signal level but is unable to display the picture because the unit instead displays "poor signal quality." SUX!
Have you tried a rescan? I have seen the same thing on my 42" Panny Vieria with some channels and a rescan usually fixes that.
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post #8528 of 8543 Old 01-27-2015, 01:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Smoke Talker;31208977]"9NEWS has been "tinkering under the hood" with our digital signal. Actually, our team of engineers has been working with new technology to improve both the strength and quality of the 9NEWS signal for those who may have had a tough time watching us with their antenna. These improvements are through the testing phase and are ready for our viewers to enjoy. But you have to rescan to get those
benefits."

Now if only KMGH-DT 7 would do the same thing.[QUOTE]


The beauty of what KUSA did was add the 9.1 (RF9.1) ATSC program stream as a minor (sub) channel to their full maximum legal power 1000kW sister station KTVD 20 (RF19) with its PSIP coding as 9.4. It's similar to what KMGH did years ago with their sister station KZCO. The big difference is KZCO is a low power station (15kW on RF17 vs KTVD's 1000kW on RF 19) so KMGH can not achieve the signal penetration compared to what KUSA/KTVD have just done.


Also of note, my TVs are showing 9.4 as 1080i when it is actually 720p. The TVs are apparently referencing the major channel (V9) PSIP info rather than the 9.4 minor channel PSIP info for the encoding format.
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post #8529 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GE AVS View Post
The beauty of what KUSA did was add the 9.1 (RF9.1) ATSC program stream as a minor (sub) channel to their full maximum legal power 1000kW sister station KTVD 20 (RF19) with its PSIP coding as 9.4. It's similar to what KMGH did years ago with their sister station KZCO. The big difference is KZCO is a low power station (15kW on RF17 vs KTVD's 1000kW on RF 19) so KMGH can not achieve the signal penetration compared to what KUSA/KTVD have just done.


Also of note, my TVs are showing 9.4 as 1080i when it is actually 720p. The TVs are apparently referencing the major channel (V9) PSIP info rather than the 9.4 minor channel PSIP info for the encoding format.

I have since had a chance to check the KTVD PSIP data in the transport stream and found that the V9.4 (RF 19.5) stream is shown as 1920x1080i/29.97 in the PSIP info even though it is encoded as 1280x720p/59.94. Also, the program on at the time on V9.4 was averaging around 10.5 Mbps essentially making V20.1 (RF19.3) non-HD with its much lower bit rate/resolution.
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post #8530 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GE AVS View Post
I have since had a chance to check the KTVD PSIP data in the transport stream and found that the V9.4 (RF 19.5) stream is shown as 1920x1080i/29.97 in the PSIP info even though it is encoded as 1280x720p/59.94. Also, the program on at the time on V9.4 was averaging around 10.5 Mbps essentially making V20.1 (RF19.3) non-HD with its much lower bit rate/resolution.
I wonder if any of that is going to change after the Super Bowl. They are certainly hyping the Super Bowl with the "Super Scan." MeTV has been watchable for the last couple days. Better than the constant contrail of compression artifacts that it was. My eye judgment places it at about the level of Antenna TV for compression at this point. It's interesting that they would show 1080i in the PSIP when it's 720p, but maybe that is why MeTV is watchable now.

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post #8531 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 03:51 PM
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No more f--kin' subchannels and bump the bitrate back up!!!!!!!!!! How about that???

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #8532 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 05:45 PM
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http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/1/2...ons-Signs.aspx
I have friends living in Denver I hope they are able to pick up KHDT 16.1, they can't get K05MD which seems to be in Cripple creek. KHDT will be adding RTV
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post #8533 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 06:24 PM
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No more f--kin' subchannels and bump the bitrate back up!!!!!!!!!! How about that???

Or, the FCC could just sell off the entire TV band to the cell phone companies!!! Your comments have shown a total ignorance of the political realities. "Channel Sharing" is what the FCC wants TV stations to do. So the questions is, do you want OTA TV or not??? What you seem to want is for the FCC to come in, shut all the TV stations down, and sell the frequencies to the cell phone companies!!!

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post #8534 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Zedd View Post
http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/1/2...ons-Signs.aspx
I have friends living in Denver I hope they are able to pick up KHDT 16.1, they can't get K05MD which seems to be in Cripple creek. KHDT will be adding RTV
Thanks for the info. That's good to know. I used to love Retro TV when we had it a few years ago. Unfortunately, I don't receive channel 16 reliably at the moment. I guess I'll have to try to tweak my indoor antenna setup to see if I can improve my reception.
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post #8535 of 8543 Old 01-28-2015, 07:14 PM
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Or, the FCC could just sell off the entire TV band to the cell phone companies!!! Your comments have shown a total ignorance of the political realities. "Channel Sharing" is what the FCC wants TV stations to do. So the questions is, do you want OTA TV or not??? What you seem to want is for the FCC to come in, shut all the TV stations down, and sell the frequencies to the cell phone companies!!!
What good is OTA HD if it looks terrible? I ask you that. It's almost as if the FCC yahoos destroyed it on purpose rather than allocate enough bandwidth for a high caliber HD station and a couple sub channels.

Once UHD takes off, antenna delivery will be a pretty moot point in the U.S. anyway unless they clean up their act and have a much wider band for each channel.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #8536 of 8543 Old 01-29-2015, 10:13 AM
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What good is OTA HD if it looks terrible? I ask you that. It's almost as if the FCC yahoos destroyed it on purpose rather than allocate enough bandwidth for a high caliber HD station and a couple sub channels.

Once UHD takes off, antenna delivery will be a pretty moot point in the U.S. anyway unless they clean up their act and have a much wider band for each channel.
Let's see here, most people get their television from satellite and cable where the signals are even more compressed than OTA. (Have you ever seen Comcast's SD service, or its excuse for HD service?) Most people really can't tell the difference between HD and UHD, so the idea that UHD is going to be a big deal, or that broadcast quality of the main channels is perceived by most people to be bad, is simply myopic.

With that said, ATSC is currently working on the next generation broadcast standard (ATSC 3.0), which will use a more robust modulation scheme, and have enough through put to handle UHD or around 6 HD channels (or a bazillion SD channels) on a single 6 MHz channel. It will also be receivable on mobile devices without stealing bandwidth from the main channels like the current ATSC M/H standard.

Back in 2010, Julius Genachowski, who was then the head of the FCC, proposed "recovering" 120 MHz (20 channels) of spectrum from television, because most people subscribed to a pay service, and broadcasters were "wasting" spectrum by only having one channel on their station. The end result is an "incentive auction" (scheduled for 2016 or 2017) where broadcasters will be "incentivized" to give up their channels for a portion of the auction proceeds. One option given by the FCC is for the station to share a channel with a competing station while maintaining "must carry" status with the MSO's. After the auction there will be a station repack where many LP and translator stations will be knocked off the air.

The reality is that the "subchannels make my OTA HD look bad" position represents maybe 1% of the population, if that, and the powers that be don't care about you!

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post #8537 of 8543 Old 01-29-2015, 11:35 AM
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Let's see here, most people get their television from satellite and cable where the signals are even more compressed than OTA. (Have you ever seen Comcast's SD service, or its excuse for HD service?) Most people really can't tell the difference between HD and UHD, so the idea that UHD is going to be a big deal, or that broadcast quality of the main channels is perceived by most people to be bad, is simply myopic.

With that said, ATSC is currently working on the next generation broadcast standard (ATSC 3.0), which will use a more robust modulation scheme, and have enough through put to handle UHD or around 6 HD channels (or a bazillion SD channels) on a single 6 MHz channel. It will also be receivable on mobile devices without stealing bandwidth from the main channels like the current ATSC M/H standard.

Back in 2010, Julius Genachowski, who was then the head of the FCC, proposed "recovering" 120 MHz (20 channels) of spectrum from television, because most people subscribed to a pay service, and broadcasters were "wasting" spectrum by only having one channel on their station. The end result is an "incentive auction" (scheduled for 2016 or 2017) where broadcasters will be "incentivized" to give up their channels for a portion of the auction proceeds. One option given by the FCC is for the station to share a channel with a competing station while maintaining "must carry" status with the MSO's. After the auction there will be a station repack where many LP and translator stations will be knocked off the air.

The reality is that the "subchannels make my OTA HD look bad" position represents maybe 1% of the population, if that, and the powers that be don't care about you!
So, we just roll over and take it?

"May I have some more hyper compressed garbage, please Mister?"

Currently, the OTA stations in Denver look just about as bad as Comcast and satellite. They're both showing artfacting and macroblocking from severe bit starvation. Football is an ugly mess, especially, due to fast action. It's not that OTA looks better than other services, it's that it's quickly becoming the same low end stuff.

The FCC should be taking a tip from Japan... their OTA HD and UHD signals look and sound spectacular. In some instances, better than disc.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #8538 of 8543 Old 01-29-2015, 01:53 PM
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Thanks for the info. That's good to know. I used to love Retro TV when we had it a few years ago. Unfortunately, I don't receive channel 16 reliably at the moment. I guess I'll have to try to tweak my indoor antenna setup to see if I can improve my reception.
My friends live in the 80246 Zip Code, and so far have not received it, I don't know what's on it now, How far away is that from the Transmitter and how much power does this LP station have, He is a big soap fan and is dying to watch The Doctors. I have been sending DVD"S from WRCF but he wants to support the Network. Any suggestion on what they can do to have a chance to pick it up Checking TV Fool I see it's still Analog?

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post #8539 of 8543 Old 01-29-2015, 03:32 PM
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So, we just roll over and take it?

The FCC should be taking a tip from Japan... their OTA HD and UHD signals look and sound spectacular. In some instances, better than disc.
What you say about Japan's OTA may be true, but back in the United States, our government (FCC) wants to sells the TV frequencies to the highest bidder, the cell phone companies want to be the highest bidder, the TV stations have sold out to the MSOs for retransmission money, and a large portion of the voting public doesn't even know that OTA TV exists. Not much hope for the portion of the population that have large enough TVs to tell the difference, and remember what the Olympics looked like in OTA HD in 2008.

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post #8540 of 8543 Old 01-29-2015, 09:28 PM
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My friends live in the 80246 Zip Code, and so far have not received it, I don't know what's on it now, How far away is that from the Transmitter and how much power does this LP station have, He is a big soap fan and is dying to watch The Doctors. I have been sending DVD"S from WRCF but he wants to support the Network. Any suggestion on what they can do to have a chance to pick it up Checking TV Fool I see it's still Analog?
I can confirm that KHDT-LD is a digital signal. I have picked it up from time to time but not consistently. Looking at Google Maps, I would guess that your friend is only about 10 miles from the transmitter, so he/she shouldn't have any trouble picking it up. According to rabbitears, the station broadcasts at 15kW. That doesn't really mean anything to me, but if you look at the contour map, it appears to cover the Denver metro area pretty well.

I'm no expert, so I can't really offer any advice for your friend, but there are tons of articles on the web for improving OTA reception. Best of luck to your friend!
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post #8541 of 8543 Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
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My friends live in the 80246 Zip Code, and so far have not received it, I don't know what's on it now, How far away is that from the Transmitter and how much power does this LP station have, He is a big soap fan and is dying to watch The Doctors. I have been sending DVD"S from WRCF but he wants to support the Network. Any suggestion on what they can do to have a chance to pick it up Checking TV Fool I see it's still Analog?
Based on TVfool there should be plenty of signal from KHDT in the 80246 Zip Code area. As a point of reference, I can pick up KMGH's secondary signal on KZCO 17 in Monument 49 miles from the towers. It also is a 15 kW station, and there is only one RF channel difference. Outdoor antennas always work best.

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post #8542 of 8543 Unread Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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Looks good on a 4k.
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post #8543 of 8543 Unread Today, 07:58 PM
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KUSA 9.4 is in1080i

I contacted KUSA about the encoding of 9.4 and learned that it is being broadcast in 1080i as showing in the PSIP info (V9.4/RF19-5 on the KTVD signal) and they confirmed that 20.1 is broadcast in 720p (V20.1/RF19-3). So KTVD V20&9/RF19.x has three sub channels: a 720p sub (V20.1), a 480i sub (V20.2) and a 1080i sub (9.4) with the V9.4 1080i sub having, as observed, the most bit rate allocation.
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