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Old 02-14-2014, 04:59 AM
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Even more interesting, the guide for 46-1 (OTA) on my DirecTV HR20 (which does include OTA in addition to satellite) shows nothing but a slide saying "My Network TV programming is unavailable." They've actually prevented the OTA signal from being seen by my HR20, which is otherwise able to tune in OTA programming.

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Old 02-14-2014, 07:32 AM
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That's odd. My Dish Network guide shows the correct programming but still displays the "My Network" icon.. Minor issue for a channel I never watch. I might give it an occasional view if it ever upgraded to HD. It comes in OTA quite strong in West County, but SD is SD........
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:58 PM
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I recently moved and lost Charter (they don't want to run additional cable to service the area I moved to, their loss) Instead of switching to Satellite I just cut the cord. (Still have to get Satellite internet however, Exede is my only option for unlimited data after Midnight) I live about 50 miles line of sight south of St Louis just north of Farmington. I pick up the following.

2.1/2
4.1/2/3
5.1/2
9.1/2/3/4
11.1/2
12.1/2/3
24.1/2
30.1/3
46.1
51.1 (lost it when I adjusted my antenna to get 12 better, no loss from what I saw)

Given my general location am I missing anything worthwhile? My initial scan on an older plasma turned up several other channels but they were too weak to display. I am considering an amp to improve the signal since I am splitting it. (Currently to two TVs, but I need to add a third)

My Antenna is an Antenna Direct Clearstream4 mounted outside to a former Satellite pole. It is pointed towards St. Louis with a slight tilt east.

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Old 02-15-2014, 05:01 AM
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Near Farmington, there's a low-power local digital TV station on channel 18, KDKZ-LD. May or may not be worth looking for.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2014, 05:14 AM
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My HR44/AM21C sees 46-1 just fine.

Yeah, I can't remember watching either 46 or ION (off the satellite) anyway.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:36 AM
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I have just upgraded from a 50" 720p DLP to a 60" 1080p plasma. I also have a 5 year old 42" 720p plasma. My question for all you OTA viewers.......do many channels look soft?

I never noticed it with my older units, but with the new plasma, I find that most programs, ought to be sharper.

That being said, I was convinced that my LG was defective or unable to reproduce a good OTA signal, until I watched Nature on 9.1 last Saturday about ducks. The sharpness was what I thought it should be for all 720p channels. However, watching the Olympics on 5.1, I just say , "meh".

Thanks
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Near Farmington, there's a low-power local digital TV station on channel 18, KDKZ-LD. May or may not be worth looking for.

- Trip

Google says it is this network.

http://www.myretrotv.com/

Might be worth looking into for the Saturday Morning Cartoons, I am so upset those are dead now...

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Old 02-15-2014, 07:54 AM
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Well, Retro TV's programming is pretty hit or miss (I know, I used to work for them), but I think KDKZ-LD does some amount of local programming which may, or may not, be of interest to you.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:21 AM
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I don't think I will make a special effort to get it, but I am pretty sure I will get an amp of some kind and see what it does.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by guest68 View Post

I have just upgraded from a 50" 720p DLP to a 60" 1080p plasma. I also have a 5 year old 42" 720p plasma. My question for all you OTA viewers.......do many channels look soft?

I never noticed it with my older units, but with the new plasma, I find that most programs, ought to be sharper.

That being said, I was convinced that my LG was defective or unable to reproduce a good OTA signal, until I watched Nature on 9.1 last Saturday about ducks. The sharpness was what I thought it should be for all 720p channels. However, watching the Olympics on 5.1, I just say , "meh".

Thanks

All the locals are soft (i.e. full of nasty compression artifacts). Your bigger set lets you see the flaws more easily. Multiple sub-channels starve the main channels of bits. Fast action sports programs (such as the Olympics) need all the bandwidth they can get. You'd think things would be getting better (with all the talk of 4K sets), but your best source of high quality HD is Blu-ray disc. You're not going to get it with local OTA. Those days are over, at least for now.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

All the locals are soft (i.e. full of nasty compression artifacts). Your bigger set lets you see the flaws more easily. Multiple sub-channels starve the main channels of bits. Fast action sports programs (such as the Olympics) need all the bandwidth they can get. You'd think things would be getting better (with all the talk of 4K sets), but your best source of high quality HD is Blu-ray disc. You're not going to get it with local OTA. Those days are over, at least for now.

At the very least they are still higher quality than Charter or Satellite.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:25 AM
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At the very least they are still higher quality than Charter or Satellite.

This is true for Dish satellite feeds of the locals, since they're re-compressed to MPEG4. The OTA tuners in the Dish receivers offer the same performance as other OTA tuners (such as the ones built into HDTVs). I haven't had Charter for decades, so I can't speak to that. My point was that OTA broadcasts today are much, much worse looking than they used to be. There was a time when all the bandwidth allocated for KSDK's HD channel went to preserving picture quality. Now, that bandwidth is split up into sub-channels. Whenever there's fast motion on the screen, the lack of bits shows up as severe blocking in the picture, which degrades the video. My Amazon Instant Video streams (at 720p) are far superior to any local OTA broadcasts, including those at 1080i.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:35 AM
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This is my first experience with an antenna in almost 12 years, and that was a portable black and white set. I haven't done anything since digital broadcasts started so this is all new for me.

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Old 02-15-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guest68 View Post

I have just upgraded from a 50" 720p DLP to a 60" 1080p plasma. I also have a 5 year old 42" 720p plasma. My question for all you OTA viewers.......do many channels look soft?

I never noticed it with my older units, but with the new plasma, I find that most programs, ought to be sharper.

That being said, I was convinced that my LG was defective or unable to reproduce a good OTA signal, until I watched Nature on 9.1 last Saturday about ducks. The sharpness was what I thought it should be for all 720p channels. However, watching the Olympics on 5.1, I just say , "meh".

Thanks

My own observations...

All the HD local channels look significantly softer than they used to a few years ago because they now multicast two, three, or four channels whereas a few years ago, they only broadcast a single channel. The bigger your TV, the more noticeable this is. KETC (9.1) was the first to multicast, and was obviously the worst for a long time. Now they're about average because the other stations have fallen to their level.

The most significant difference (in my own opinion) is KMOV, and it about smacked me upside the head during the run of UNDER THE DOME. I had missed recording the first episode, but did manage to record the second episode. I watched the first episode on Amazon Prime streaming video (720p), and followed immediately with the second from KMOV's 1080i broadcast on the DVR. And I was AMAZED at how much softer the KMOV broadcast looked than the Amazon stream. The difference was NOT subtle. I deleted my season pass (or whatever the DirecTV DVR calls it) and watched the rest of the season on Amazon.

And since then, shows I'm particularly fond of, like Blacklist, Arrow, and Revolution, I buy a season pass on Vudu and watch in glorious 1080p with no commercials.

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Old 02-16-2014, 08:13 AM
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Thanks guys for the help.

This explains a lot. I used to brag that my OTA viewing was the best you could get (and free!!) other than blueray.

I will no longer make that claim.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post

Even more interesting, the guide for 46-1 (OTA) on my DirecTV HR20 (which does include OTA in addition to satellite) shows nothing but a slide saying "My Network TV programming is unavailable." They've actually prevented the OTA signal from being seen by my HR20, which is otherwise able to tune in OTA programming.

Getting weirder.

When I use the keypad and press four,six, dash, one, and enter, I still get the slide that says "My Network Programming no longer available" (even though this is an over-the-air channel and not received via DirecTV even though I'm using a DirecTV HR20 box to do the actual receiving). But if I call up the DirecTV channel guide (which includes local channels through the antenna in addition to the ones through DirecTV), go to channel 46-1, and hit Enter, the channel comes up fine and dandy.

????

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Old 02-16-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by guest68 View Post

Thanks guys for the help.

This explains a lot. I used to brag that my OTA viewing was the best you could get (and free!!) other than blueray.

I will no longer make that claim.

Yep, other than Blu-ray, Vudu is now the best HD viewing you can get that I'm aware of. Admittedly, I haven't looked at DirecTV's 1080p pay per views lately. They may very well be as good as Vudu.

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Old 02-16-2014, 07:34 PM
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Yep, other than Blu-ray, Vudu is now the best HD viewing you can get that I'm aware of. Admittedly, I haven't looked at DirecTV's 1080p pay per views lately. They may very well be as good as Vudu.

I joined Vudu yesterday after I saw your post, Bob. smile.gif I think I'm going to like it. Their 1080p (HDX) streams are definitely better than OTA here in St. Louis, and they're also better than Amazon Instant Video's 720p HD streams (especially in the audio department). However, Dish Network's 1080/24p movies look better than either one. I recently bought a Roku 3, and there's tremendous variety available via the various streaming services. The number of TV shows and movies offered for no extra cost via Amazon Prime's $75/year fee is staggering. You need a fast Internet connection, but that's certainly not a problem with Charter in the area where I live.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post

Getting weirder.

When I use the keypad and press four,six, dash, one, and enter, I still get the slide that says "My Network Programming no longer available" (even though this is an over-the-air channel and not received via DirecTV even though I'm using a DirecTV HR20 box to do the actual receiving). But if I call up the DirecTV channel guide (which includes local channels through the antenna in addition to the ones through DirecTV), go to channel 46-1, and hit Enter, the channel comes up fine and dandy.

????

You're right, direct channel entry access is busted. However, I hit the CHANNEL UP button after getting that slide and it tuned right in! Weird indeed!
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:52 PM
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You're right, direct channel entry access is busted. However, I hit the CHANNEL UP button after getting that slide and it tuned right in! Weird indeed!

This happens on D* stuff when two channels have the same number. I had a similar situation and since there were two channels with the same number in the system, when you manually type 46-1 it goes to "it's own" channel, if you will, that being the D* provided 46-1 message slide. When you channel up, it goes to the next channel in your favorites list, which I assume is OTA 46-1. Select "All channels" and you'll probably see two 46-1 channels listed.

It also takes the first alphabetically is there are two channels with the same number. I am not sure if it matters if one is D* or OTA or not in that case.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:52 AM
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I joined Vudu yesterday after I saw your post, Bob. smile.gif I think I'm going to like it. Their 1080p (HDX) streams are definitely better than OTA here in St. Louis, and they're also better than Amazon Instant Video's 720p HD streams (especially in the audio department). However, Dish Network's 1080/24p movies look better than either one. I recently bought a Roku 3, and there's tremendous variety available via the various streaming services. The number of TV shows and movies offered for no extra cost via Amazon Prime's $75/year fee is staggering. You need a fast Internet connection, but that's certainly not a problem with Charter in the area where I live.

Enjoy that fast Internet connection while it lasts, Joe. These may be the good ol' days of fast cable. With talks of the Comcast/ Time Warner merger, I wonder how long this will last. We already know the Cable companies don't like the NETFLIX's of the world because it cannibalizes their Premium channel revenues. I have already heard of (unconfirmed) instances where Comcast has slowed Netflix down to a crawl to make it unwatchable. This is even for subs that supposedly have large pipes. For some strange reason, however; Comcast's premium streaming service (forgot the name) is unaffected. I smell a rat.

This is one reason why Net Neutrality and competition must remain intact. How many homes really have more than one high-speed Internet option? Sorry, AT&T. Your DSL doesn't count.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:42 AM
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Enjoy that fast Internet connection while it lasts, Joe. These may be the good ol' days of fast cable. With talks of the Comcast/ Time Warner merger, I wonder how long this will last. We already know the Cable companies don't like the NETFLIX's of the world because it cannibalizes their Premium channel revenues. I have already heard of (unconfirmed) instances where Comcast has slowed Netflix down to a crawl to make it unwatchable. This is even for subs that supposedly have large pipes. For some strange reason, however; Comcast's premium streaming service (forgot the name) is unaffected. I smell a rat.

This is one reason why Net Neutrality and competition must remain intact. How many homes really have more than one high-speed Internet option? Sorry, AT&T. Your DSL doesn't count.

I completely agree. I plan to take advantage of it while I can.

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Old 02-17-2014, 03:39 PM
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Ding Dong Live Well is gone. Right now 4-3 has a place card saying "The Live Well Network no longer airs on KMOV tv".
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:44 PM
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Ding Dong Live Well is gone. Right now 4-3 has a place card saying "The Live Well Network no longer airs on KMOV tv".

Not that I watched it, but that is one less channel now. Hopefully they replace it with something better.

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Old 02-17-2014, 04:29 PM
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I'm looking for someone to install an outside antenna.  I've contacted A-1 Antenna, but; are the only game in town?

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Old 02-17-2014, 04:40 PM
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Not that I watched it, but that is one less channel now. Hopefully they replace it with something better.

Well this is interesting on their facebook page they posted that they dropped it because soon their going be starting MobileTV. I assume there going to be using DyleTV. As long as they don't mess with METV I'm fine with it.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:51 PM
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I was hoping they'd just drop down to "only" 2 channels (CBS and MeTV) and restore 4-3's bandwidth back to CBS.

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Old 02-17-2014, 06:55 PM
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I joined Vudu yesterday after I saw your post, Bob. smile.gif I think I'm going to like it. Their 1080p (HDX) streams are definitely better than OTA here in St. Louis, and they're also better than Amazon Instant Video's 720p HD streams (especially in the audio department). However, Dish Network's 1080/24p movies look better than either one. I recently bought a Roku 3, and there's tremendous variety available via the various streaming services. The number of TV shows and movies offered for no extra cost via Amazon Prime's $75/year fee is staggering. You need a fast Internet connection, but that's certainly not a problem with Charter in the area where I live.

I'd especially be interested in whether you see any difference between Vudu on your Roku 3, and Vudu on your Oppo BD player. My Roku came from before Roku's had numbers after them and doesn't offer Vudu, so my Vudu strictly comes from the Oppo.

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Old 02-17-2014, 07:32 PM
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In any case, glad Live Well is gone. KMOV's broadcasting of it in the wrong aspect ratio (4:3 when it should have been 16:9) actually had a few TV buyers at work RETURNING the TV's thinking there was something wrong with them.

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Old 02-17-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post

In any case, glad Live Well is gone. KMOV's broadcasting of it in the wrong aspect ratio (4:3 when it should have been 16:9) actually had a few TV buyers at work RETURNING the TV's thinking there was something wrong with them.

That aspect issue is the whole reason I never watched it, annoyed the crap out of me.

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