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Old 07-19-2015, 03:24 PM
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I suspect it's because of the pitifully low bitrate KMOV is using.

I still have recordings of CSI and CSI Miami from several years back. Without commercials, those episodes took up about 5.9GB of space each on my hard drive and had bitrates of well over 15mbps.

New episodes of Zoo only take up about 3.2 to 3.5GB, and the bitrate is often barely over 10mbps. For a "1080i high definition broadcast." Well hey KMOV, guess what? That's the same maximum bitrate that 480p STANDARD DVD'S USE!

Oddly, kSDk's bitrates aren't much better. American Odyssey episodes also take up about 3.5GB each, but they're doing something (relatively) right because American Odyssey and Aquarius episodes consistently look better than Zoo and Under the Dome episodes.

Of course I realize that's setting the bar pretty low.

BTW, KTVI and KPLR, which "only" have 1 extra subchannel each, nowadays look much better than either kSDk or KMOV. Arrow episodes on KPLR have bitrates of 12-13mbps and the file sizes are usually around 4.4GB, not as nice as KMOV used to be but much nicer than KMOV is now. KTVI Wayward Pines episodes are about 4.2GB each.

I haven't watched or recorded anything on ABC lately, so can't comment on KDNL.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:57 AM
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I knew these movie subchannels had lots of commercials, but holy crap!

I finally got around to editing the commercials out of 30-3 Grit TV's broadcast of "Armored Attack," a 1943 war movie in a 2-hour time slot. Without commercials, it was only 75 minutes. That's 45 minutes of commercials in a 2 hour slot, or 22 and a half minutes of commercials per hour. Which means only 37 and a half minutes of program per hour.

Silly me for thinking an 82-minute movie in a 2 hour time slot would be relatively uncut.

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Old 07-24-2015, 05:31 AM
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On the positive side, it certainly can't take up much disk space.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:52 AM
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The first subchannel network I had any experience with was TheCoolTV, and I was taken aback by the sheer number of ads. Seems that's how they manage to make their money.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:17 PM
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Except TheCoolTV didn't make any money... or at least didn't pay the stations for carrying the broadcasts.

Yeah, I can't stand watching anything on any of the diginets without DVRing it so the commercials can be skipped.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:56 AM
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Perhaps the thought process of the broadcasters goes something like this:

"Most OTA viewers are too poor or too cheap to pay for Cable or Satellite. So if they want to view events for free, we're gonna STICK it to them with endless commercials. So, who cares if we have to cut content out of a program or if the primary HD channel quality suffers. They're getting what they pay for....." Hail, hail the almighty dollar!
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:39 AM
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On the positive side, it certainly can't take up much disk space.
You got THAT right! The movie in question, Armored Attack, ran 75 minutes after removing commercials (should have run 82, which triggered my rant above in the first place) and takes a whopping 1.59GB of disk space.

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Old 07-28-2015, 07:06 AM
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Well I figured that HAD to be a fluke, so I tried this again with THREE VIOLENT PEOPLE, recorded April 5.

It's a 100 minute movie, in a 2 and a half hour time slot on Grit TV, channel 30-3 in St. Louis. Here's the result in VideoRedo Plus:



Out of a two hour, thirty-one minute recording, the actual movie lasted 99 minutes. That's 52 minutes of commercials in a two and a half hour broadcast.

Check out the green and red bar below the main picture. The green segments are program segments. The red segments are commercial breaks. Several of the commercial breaks are nearly as long as the movie segments.

And am I the only one who gets really annoyed at them broadcasting a 16:9 picture, but letterboxing widescreen content in the 4:3 safe area resulting in black bars on all four sides of the picture? Again, see the pic. The ENTIRE MOVIE was broadcast like this. In fact, those black side bars have been there since February (which was the last time I remember Grit showing a widescreen movie in actual widescreen).

Why are they still bothering to broadcast a 16:9 picture when there's only been 4:3 content for the last six solid months?

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Old 07-28-2015, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post
.......Why are they still bothering to broadcast a 16:9 picture when there's only been 4:3 content for the last six solid months?
Choose your poison:

A - No one is minding the store as the system is on auto-pilot
B - No one knows how to tweak the settings at the transmitter
C- No one at the station (somewhere in Ohio, I believe) really cares
D - Where is Jim when we need him?
E - All the above

Simply stating the obvious

BTW, that red/green bar you displayed tells the whole story. Great graphic!
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Old 08-03-2015, 06:39 PM
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Of course, the long ad breaks (and the repetitive, LCD ads associated with them) are one of the problems with, and a fact of life of, diginets. The goal is to be profitable from day one, both at the network level and the affiliate level. (And, of course, the diginets don't have Big Four money backing them, so the margin for profitability is pretty slim.) In a way, they have an easier road than Fox did when they intended to make MyNetworkTV profitable from day one. MyNetworkTV had to produce new content and had to justify that content with eyeballs. Diginets just have to get enough eyeballs to justify keeping the subchannel on (it helps when the network pays what it's supposed to, otherwise the affiliates rebel, like with TheCoolTV). The network provides enough ad slots to be profitable (major expenditures are content deals, satellite bandwidth, promotion, affiliate contracts), and as long as the affiliate gets enough money, they don't care (subchannel specific expenditures for local stations are E/I programming/compliance, EAS compliance, promotion). Oddly enough, the expenses for a diginet subchannel seem to be fixed, ie it doesn't really matter what they put up as a subchannel, the expenses are likely to be very similar (I have a hunch that the viewership numbers are pretty similar, too).
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:08 PM
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If anyone can stand another rant on KMOV....

Already knew Amazon's streaming video clobbered KMOV (see several posts back)....

I'm doing a free trial of CBS All Access, so I got to compare the same episode of ZOO from CBS All Access on the Roku 3 on my bedroom TV, and from KMOV's over the air broadcast on the Tivo, same TV. Well, guess what?

The CBS All Access stream blew away the KMOV broadcast, too. At least as far as picture quality. Had a level of sharpness and detail that was simply missing from the KMOV broadcast which, as before, didn't look much better than a standard DVD. However, the CBS All Access audio was only 2.0 while KMOV's broadcast was 5.1.

Also, the CBS stream really annoyed me by playing the same three or four commercials over and over and over and over and over.

But the difference in picture quality is enough that I'll be subscribing to CBS All Access... when they release an app for the Amazon Fire TV in my family room. Right now I can only use it on the Roku 3 in the bedroom and won't start paying for it until I can use it on other rooms in the house.

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Old 08-11-2015, 10:25 AM
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Although the video quality may be superior, I'm willing to put up with a slightly inferior picture as long as I can use my DVR to zip past the never-ending commercial breaks. Can this be done with CBS All Access? Or are you forced to be spoon fed in real time----commercials and all----while streaming? I like Amazon and Netflix b/c they are commercial free with decent PQ. Having to put up with multiple breaks while paying a monthly subscription fee goes against my grain.
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:40 AM
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Johnny Carson Tonight Show episodes coming to Antenna TV 2.2 beginning January 1st at 10pm. 60 minute episodes M-F and 90 minute episodes on weekends.

Awesome!
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:56 AM
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Johnny Carson Tonight Show episodes coming to Antenna TV 2.2 beginning January 1st at 10pm. 60 minute episodes M-F and 90 minute episodes on weekends.

Awesome!
Nice! I wonder why we must wait until next year. They're all in the can and ready to go. Speaking of being in the can, I read that many of the early years are lost completely because someone in his ultimate wisdom decided to save $$$ by writing over past shows rather than using fresh tape. How much could those 2" video tape reels have really cost a big national network?????
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:32 PM
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Here is a great article that explains the whole deal.

https://variety.com/2015/tv/news/joh...tv-1201568250/

Here is the FOX2 story.

http://fox2now.com/2015/08/12/johnny...ngth-episodes/
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
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Although the video quality may be superior, I'm willing to put up with a slightly inferior picture as long as I can use my DVR to zip past the never-ending commercial breaks. Can this be done with CBS All Access? Or are you forced to be spoon fed in real time----commercials and all----while streaming? I like Amazon and Netflix b/c they are commercial free with decent PQ. Having to put up with multiple breaks while paying a monthly subscription fee goes against my grain.
CBS All Access is just like Hulu in that you have to put up with the commercials in between program segments and can't skip past them.

On the other hand, KMOV throws commercials and weather bulletins (for three counties away) at you DURING the program segments. This was from Zoo Thursday night:



At least with CBS's stream I can take a bathroom break or get a snack during the commercials.

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Old 08-22-2015, 03:08 PM
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I might add that KMOV took the text crawl down during the commercial breaks (though they did leave the map up throughout), and for the most part put the text crawl right back up when the program resumed.

Oh, and I now DO have CBS All Access on my Fire TV, in a roundabout way. The Fire TV has a new app called YouMap, which emulates a Google Chromecast. I started the app, brought up that Zoo episode on my phone, hit the Cast button, and watched CBS All Access on my Fire TV. With a sharper picture than KMOV. Again.

It's not perfect. The stream paused and buffered like crazy the first minute or so, which thankfully was during a commercial. It straightened up and flew right by the time the actual episode started. The stereo sound quality was definitely inferior to KMOV's Dolby Digital 5.1, and not just because of the stereo vs. 5.1 difference. The CBS stream is also lacking in both the top and bottom ends, apparently optimized for phones and tablets rather than for expensive home theater setups.... which makes me wonder why they're bothering to stream a sharper picture than what's being broadcast, duh....

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Old 08-23-2015, 07:58 AM
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........
At least with CBS's stream I can take a bathroom break or get a snack during the commercials.
Great point. Those weather bugs can be most annoying......especially when the weather event is in a corn field 100 miles away.
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Old 08-23-2015, 03:01 PM
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Oh, and one more thing.

Take a look at the detail (or lack thereof) in the shot from ZOO above. Like I've said before, I have plain old DVD's that look just about as good as that.

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Old 08-24-2015, 10:22 AM
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Oh, and one more thing.

Take a look at the detail (or lack thereof) in the shot from ZOO above. Like I've said before, I have plain old DVD's that look just about as good as that.
I agree. It's nothing special. Funny, I watched several episodes of the old NBC Heroes show on Netflix over the weekend and it's amazing how much better the PQ looks on Netflix than what new NBC shows look like today via OTA or even via Dish Network. While I do notice banding and strange compression artifacts when I looked for them up close, the overall image was noticeably sharper & crisper at normal viewing distances.

It's odd because up close I think there are actually more artifacts with Netflix. But at a distance the image just seems a bit sharper.

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