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#1 ·
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=357896


Thank you.


(Copy of First Post)

San Francisco Bay Area Comcast Information

============================================================ ==============


This thread contains posts regarding Comcast HDTV service in the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose Bay Area. (This covers San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties.)


For Solano County see note below.


To summarize status as of August, 2006:

HD Channels:


Note: Not all channels are available everywhere. Check with your local Comcast office, or better yet, post the question here as you will get the most accurate, up to date, information from this group. Having a location/city in your profile helps tremendously.


702 KTVU-DT (FOX) 720p & DD 5.1

703 KNTV-DT (NBC) 1080i & DD 5.1

704 KRON-DT (MyTV) 1080i

705 KPIX-DT (CBS) 1080i & DD 5.1

707 KGO-DT (ABC) 720p & DD 5.1

709 KQED-DT (PBS) (on air 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.) 1080i & DD 5.1


719 INHD (encrypted in most areas) 1080i

720 INHD2 (encrypted in most areas) 1080i (FSNBA-HD see note below)


FSN Bay Area HD (some Warriors, A's and Giants games inserted onto 720, pre-empting INHD2 programming) FSN Bay Area Website-- HD Schedule


722 Discovery HD Theater 1080i & DD 5.1

723 ESPN HD (encrypted in most areas) 720p & DD 5.1

725 ESPN2 HD (encrypted) 720p & DD 5.1

HD Special Events

-- NFL Channel HD (NFL Game of the Week, Weds. and Thurs. Evenings)

-- INHD programming (third INHD feed) whenever NBA game is on INHD

-- Other HD programming TBA


730 HBO HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

732 Cinemax HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

734 Starz HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

736 Showtime HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

Note re encryption: This varies from one head end to the next. Some premiums and/or ESPN HD and/or InHD may be unencrypted in your area, but that will change as soon as Comcast gets all the necessary equipment to encrypt. Only the local HD channels will be "in the clear" once all the head ends have the proper equipment.

Note re ADS: ADS, or Analog-Digital Simulcasting, is when the analog channels are duplicated as digital subchannels. This allows for cheaper, smaller digital boxes as the analog tuner is not needed. ADS also eliminates the need for MPEG encoders in the DVR's. The primary advantage is the elimination of interference typically associated with analog signals.


Most 750/850MHz systems in the Bay Area have implemented ADS. The surest way of obtaining the digital versions of the analog channels is to incorporate at least one Motorola 3412 STB in your household. Once the headend receives the signal that you're in an "ADS-ready" area, your other STB's will automatically start using the digital channels. To find out if you're receiving the digital channels, tune both of your tuners to channel 2, go in to the diagnostics menu, and go to "d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS". If both tuners say 'QAM 256" then you're receiving the digital version of the channel. If they say "Analog" then you are receiving the analog version of the channel.

Note re 550 Mhz systems: Not all (or any) HD channels may be available in some Bay Area systems because they are not yet "rebuilt" to either 750 mHz or 860 mHz and thus have less bandwidth to devote to HDTV. As it stands August 2006, there doesn't appear to be any plans to upgrade these systems to bring parity with the rest of the SF bay area. The prevailing assumption is that as we move closer to the analog OTA shutdown date, Comcast will be moving analog channels to digital, and thus, freeing up bandwidth for more channels and services on these systems. This looks to be a long and slow process covering years so don't expect anything new to appear on these systems anytime soon. On these systems you will NOT get: INHD*, INHD2,* FSN Bay Area HD*, Showtime HD, KRON HD and/or HD Special Events among others depending on the particular system.


But, you will pay the same rates as subscribers who do receive the full complement of channels and services. This is an inequity that Comcast, to date, has not addressed and continues to remain silent on.


These systems are located in, among other areas,


Antioch

Hayward

Los Gatos

Milpitas

Pittsburg

San Leandro

San Lorenzo

Santa Rosa

Saratoga

Sunnyvale(parts)

Vallejo

* INHD and INHD2 are available in areas of Saratoga, Milpitas and Los Gatos even though these are primarily 550 Mhz systems.

Note: Solano County. Information obtained from Comcast subscriber heyjjjaded in Vacaville.


1. Our local HD channels are all out of Sacramento

2. Unlike Sacramento though, all of our HD channels are in the 700's (the way they are in San Francisco)

3. We get standard network non-HD channels (NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) from both Sacramento & San Francisco

4. The 800 telephone number on our Comcast brochure puts us through to the bay area

5. Our HD problems (break-ups, audio-drops, failure to switch from INHD2 to FSN HD) almost always coincide with the same problems reported by the Sacramento customers


For further Sacramento information, see the Sacramento Comcast Thread


HD Capable Set Top Box/Firmware:


Motorola 5100 and Motorola 6200


The 6200 has a faster processor and two firewire (IEEE 1394) ports.


Firmware 7.15 (7.10 in some areas). DVI and Firewire are activated with both versions but are more stable and user friendly with 7.15.


Current software is 51.88-2002.


See the rest of the thread, below, or the 5100/6200 thread in the HDTV Hardware forum for more specific information.

HD-DVR/Software:


Motorola 6412-- first became available in December 2004. (6208 was originally projected to be available November/December 2003). Costs extra $9.95 per month (or $4.95 per month more than a non-DVR HD STB rental from Comcast) above what you are otherwise paying for now.


Software for the HD DVR the iGuide, by Guideworks, a joint venture of Comcast and Gemstar-TV Guide. Software for all other HD boxes will eventually be the iGuide but has not yet been downloaded to them as of February 17, 2005.


Current firmware version for the 6412:


Current software version for the 6412: 71.44 1203 (revision should be coming in the next couple of months)



Motorola 6412 PIII--same as 6412 listed above but has HDMI video output vs DVI for the above 6412.


Current firmware version for the 6412-PIII: 12.31



Motorola 3412--same as 6412 PIII only it has no analog tuner. The 3412 is a digital-only DVR and can be used only on systems where ADS has been implemented.


Current firmware version for the 3412: 12.22


Costs:


Limited basic cable, which is required for all subscriptions, ranges from $9 to $17 per month depending on your area. HD STB rental (non-DVR) is $5 per month. To get INHD and ESPN HD, if encrypted, you need Digital Classic tier at $9.95 per month. Premium HD channels, if encrypted, are received with any a la carte or package subscription that includes the SD versions of those channels.


HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57


Note: All the above prices prices and packages will vary somewhat from area to area, check with others in your location and/or contact the local Comcast office that serves your area.



I will update this summary as information changes. If anyone has different or updated information to the above, please post it to this thread and I will incorporate it.
 
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#10,201 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by juancmjr /forum/post/16631929


Now that you pointed it out, I checked it & it is dull, with muted colors. Getting a fair amount of macroblocking especially in crowd scenes.

I saw a lot of blocking as well. Just love those digital shifts and artifacts
I took my TV's backlight and color up a bit and the picture was a bit better but Ion doesn't have a whole lot of programming yet so whatever.
 
#10,202 ·
Remember that we are having free HBO and Cinemax this weekend. I just checked and here in south San Jose the channels are already available, I'm using a Comcast box. They are suppose to be free until Monday (midnight?).


I already setup my DVR to record Eastern Promises and the Cotto vs Cottley boxing match. And yeah, some other movies I won't post here, and no, they are not skinmax "movies".
 
#10,203 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsra13 /forum/post/16634574


Remember that we are having free HBO and Cinemax this weekend. I just checked and here in south San Jose the channels are already available, I'm using a Comcast box. They are suppose to be free until Monday (midnight?).

Just out of curiosity, are these free preview channels showing up on DTA's as well as STB's?
 
#10,204 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsra13 /forum/post/16634574


Remember that we are having free HBO and Cinemax this weekend.

Yeah, don't forget about the "Dark Knight" premiere tomorrow night! And the new season of "True Blood" on Sunday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlou99 /forum/post/16640091


Just out of curiosity, are these free preview channels showing up on DTA's as well as STB's?

No, the DTAs are very basic converters designed to provide access to the channels that were on Extended Basic analog. Aside from those, they only get a few other channels, such as CalChannel, CSPAN-3, and some of the local digital subchannels. They don't get the premium channels or even the other non-premium digital channels.



Patty
 
#10,205 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wintertime /forum/post/16640371


No, the DTAs are very basic converters designed to provide access to the channels that were on Extended Basic analog. Aside from those, they only get a few other channels, such as CalChannel, CSPAN-3, and some of the local digital subchannels. They don't get the premium channels or even the other non-premium digital channels.

This is not true from a technical standpoint. DTAs are designed to provide access to unencrypted QAM. Comcast could just turn off encryption during HBO free preview weekend and push out an updated VCT so that the DTA can see it.


I know that they did the former. My question was regarding whether they had actually done the latter.
 
#10,206 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlou99 /forum/post/16641973


This is not true from a technical standpoint. DTAs are designed to provide access to unencrypted QAM. Comcast could just turn off encryption during HBO free preview weekend and push out an updated VCT so that the DTA can see it.


I know that they did the former. My question was regarding whether they had actually done the latter.

I don't think they did the latter - after seeing HBO/Max come in on clear QAM on my main TV I searched all channels on the DTA in the back room with no joy.
 
#10,207 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlou99 /forum/post/16641973


This is not true from a technical standpoint. DTAs are designed to provide access to unencrypted QAM. Comcast could just turn off encryption during HBO free preview weekend and push out an updated VCT so that the DTA can see it.

Okay, sorry. From the list I received with the DTAs, I thought they could only tune up to the 100s channels, and the premiums are in the 500s. I didn't have my DTA hooked up last night because I was set up to record analog OTA, but I just checked and you're right that it can get higher channels. Perhaps Comcast figures it isn't worth opening up the free preview on DTAs because customers who only have those can't become HBO subscribers after the preview anyway, since those units aren't capable of handling subscription flags for premium channels, right?



Patty
 
#10,209 ·
Many of the movies they are showing are "cropped" 'scope films. IOW, not worth watching that way. You don't get to see the whole movie. I note that Comcast is running "center cut" 4:3 now on most of the locals. How long are they going to keep that up? After all DVD has been around over a decade so many people are used to letterbox. I would think they would want to see the whole show too.


And when to the Extended Basic go away as analog? Does anyone know the schedule?
 
#10,210 ·
I have only Limited Basic with a TiVo S3. When I tune to HBO/Cinemax the grey CableCARD screen pops up, pressing Clear will get rid of it and allow the channel to display. I recorded 2 films off HBO last night and they both recorded fine, although I believe this was due to already being tuned to the channel on the S3. I've just set a test recording with the TiVo tuned to 2 other channels to see if the CC page prevents the recording on HBO.


I'm curious why the the CC page even comes up, there must still be some sort of encryption "trigger" on the HBO and Cinemax signals. Maybe it's because my CC's are set to block the channel and tuning to it causes them to hiccup when they see the "clear" signal.
 
#10,211 ·
I'm a little confused. The broadcast networks have their analog shut off, right?


Thus when I watch on comcast the "analog" version of a broadcast channel, I should really see their digital channel downconverted, right?


What I am saying is, I am watching Golf in HD on 705 (KPIX) right now. When I turn to Channel 5, I expect to see 16:9 SD golf (or letterboxed golf). Instead I see a 4:3 SD image which confuses me.


What's going on here? Are the networks still giving cable co's crap [analog] although over the air they are digital only?
 
#10,212 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson /forum/post/16642675


Right. (But they could still be hooked into getting the normal STB and an HBO subscription, having had their appetites whetted on the preview...hmm?)

True!


At least Comcast sent a message to my STB about the HBO preview. DirecTV has finally started mentioning their free previews in their monthly bill inserts, but they never send out messages about them. Pretty dumb considering that many people pay electronically and never get the flyers.



Patty
 
#10,214 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 /forum/post/16643549


I'm a little confused. The broadcast networks have their analog shut off, right?


Thus when I watch on comcast the "analog" version of a broadcast channel, I should really see their digital channel downconverted, right?


What I am saying is, I am watching Golf in HD on 705 (KPIX) right now. When I turn to Channel 5, I expect to see 16:9 SD golf (or letterboxed golf). Instead I see a 4:3 SD image which confuses me.


What's going on here? Are the networks still giving cable co's crap [analog] although over the air they are digital only?

I can't remember the exact details, there was a couple of threads about this a few months back, but basically, the cableco is taking the digital signal provided to them from the broadcaster and, I believe, center-cutting it to a 4x3 image. This was the reason for moving the channel bug from the far left or right in a 16x9 image to the 4x3 "safe" area on HD broadcasts - when it was center-cut the bug would be still be there. On carriers that are not 100% digital, like Comcast, I think they are converting that digital signal to analog for those folks who are still using analog TVs.


Also, if I remember correctly, this was also a major reason why the DTA's came about, the plan was that Comcast wanted to avoid having to provide those analog signals, but because they could not show that they were 100% digital at the time they were stuck having to provide them. The DTA was supposed to allow them to be 100% digital - convert the digital signals to analog for those analog displays - but evidently they've only gone with converting the Expanded Basic analogs, so far. I think, I haven't used any analog displays for years, so I haven't really followed what Comcast is doing with the DTA's beyond the Expanded Basic channel conversions.
 
#10,215 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsra13 /forum/post/16634574


Remember that we are having free HBO and Cinemax this weekend. I just checked and here in south San Jose the channels are already available, I'm using a Comcast box. They are suppose to be free until Monday (midnight?).

Here in San Francisco, I am receiving the preview of HBOHD and MAXHD on 119-1 and 119-2 both in 1080i via both with the cable plugged straight into a Samsung HDTV and also plugged into my Hauppauge pci-e card running through Windows 7 x64 Build 7077 Media Center (DVR). No STB or DTA. Looks great as it should in 1080i.
 
#10,216 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan /forum/post/16644247


I can't remember the exact details, there was a couple of threads about this a few months back, but basically, the cableco is taking the digital signal provided to them from the broadcaster and, I believe, center-cutting it to a 4x3 image. This was the reason for moving the channel bug from the far left or right in a 16x9 image to the 4x3 "safe" area on HD broadcasts - when it was center-cut the bug would be still be there. On carriers that are not 100% digital, like Comcast, I think they are converting that digital signal to analog for those folks who are still using analog TVs.


Also, if I remember correctly, this was also a major reason why the DTA's came about, the plan was that Comcast wanted to avoid having to provide those analog signals, but because they could not show that they were 100% digital at the time they were stuck having to provide them. The DTA was supposed to allow them to be 100% digital - convert the digital signals to analog for those analog displays - but evidently they've only gone with converting the Expanded Basic analogs, so far. I think, I haven't used any analog displays for years, so I haven't really followed what Comcast is doing with the DTA's beyond the Expanded Basic channel conversions.

The last I heard the local stations ( ABC, CBS, NBC etc... ) will still provide an analog signal to Comcast, even though they have shut down their broadcast analog signals from Sutro. Comcast never got their signals from Sutro but had/has a direct feed from the local stations. That's why when they did work on Sutro it didn't affect the channels on Comcast.


In a way I can see why they would do this, they ( the local stations ) can still make money with their old analog equipment for a couple more years by providing that analog signal to Comcast. Also, the final date for dropping all analog from their ( Comcast ) system will be in 3 years, that may have changed but that was the last I heard. Personally, I would've dropped them all a long time ago.


Laters,

Mikef5
 
#10,217 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikef5 /forum/post/16644707


The last I heard the local stations ( ABC, CBS, NBC etc... ) will still provide an analog signal to Comcast, even though they have shut down their broadcast analog signals from Sutro. Comcast never got their signals from Sutro but had/has a direct feed from the local stations. That's why when they did work on Sutro it didn't affect the channels on Comcast.


In a way I can see why they would do this, they can still make money with their old analog equipment for a couple more years by providing that analog signal to Comcast. Also, the final date for dropping all analog from their ( Comcast ) system will be in 3 years, that may have changed but that was the last I heard. Personally, I would've dropped them all a long time ago.


Laters,

Mikef5

I was aware that those analog feeds were via hard-line, but I wasn't aware they were going to continue to supply an analog signal to the carriers like Comcast.
 
#10,218 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan /forum/post/16644723


I was aware that those analog feeds were via hard-line, but I wasn't aware they were going to continue to supply an analog signal to the carriers like Comcast.

That was the last I heard and to me it makes sense if you want to still provide an analog signal to your customers. Why would you invest a lot of money into a conversion system to take the digital signal and convert it to a crappy analog signal when you can get the local stations to use the equipment that they already have and provide that analog signal to your customers. Which do you think would be cheaper and which would you use if you are trying to save costs or more cash layouts ? They already have the system in place right now so why go through all the expense of converting signals ? Plus the local stations can get some return on their old analog equipment. It's a win/win for both.


Laters,

Mikef5
 
#10,219 ·
In Cupertino, all analog channels above 34 are now gone. And channel 2, 3 & 4 analog have poor signal quality (snow on cable).


I wonder of Comcast is doing the "center cut" for the locals, or if the locals are feeding Comcast two signals, one in HD and the second in 4x3 SD. Remember, Comcast is running a digital 4x3 signal in parallel with the analog signal for the locals. Comparing the signal quality of KTVU Fox analog (channel 2) to the digital 4x3 ( 72-1) it is apparent that Comcast is not converting the analog to digital.


Greg
 
#10,220 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikef5 /forum/post/16644779


That was the last I heard and to me it makes sense if you want to still provide an analog signal to your customers. Why would you invest a lot of money into a conversion system to take the digital signal and convert it to a crappy analog signal when you can get the local stations to use the equipment that they already have and provide that analog signal to your customers. Which do you think would be cheaper and which would you use if you are trying to save costs or more cash layouts ? They already have the system in place right now so why go through all the expense of converting signals ? Plus the local stations can get some return on their old analog equipment. It's a win/win for both.


Laters,

Mikef5

Silly me for thinking that cable customers would now be watching the digital versions of the broadcast networks. Here I was hoping those people who only have limited/expanded cable would watch American Idol (and many other programs) and it would be letterboxed and hopefully realize they could use an HDTV. I know NBC broadcasts some shows in letterboxed SD, but would have been nice if everything that was HD (even local news) was letterboxed. Besides DTA, I'm not liking that these low end (in Comcast's POV) customers are seeing no change in their TV watchingl.
 
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