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post #1531 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

When S3s first came out the claim was that the S3 hardware was M-card ready and once M-cards came out, you could use 1 M-card instead of 2 S-cards.

TiVoPony clarified this to say the hardware was M-card ready, but there was no certification available for M-card in a UDCP (as opposed to bi-directional host) device thus the M-card would only work in S-stream mode.

The implication was that at some point in the future after certification a single M-card could work in M-stream mode with the existing hardware, but I don't think any explicit promises were made.

And that's were the problems is, way to vague to base any informed buying decision on. That's why I was hoping to find more info on the new Tivo ( Tivo-Lite ) that's rumored to be coming out. If it will be bi-directional and make use of the M-card then the rumored $400 price would be well worth it and I'd buy it in a micro. The problem is finding reliable information

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post #1532 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by walk View Post

I can't figure out why it's such a chore to convert the internal encryption to E-SATA drives.
I mean they are both SATA drives, one is just internal. If they can make it so the files there are encrypted and cannot be played back on any other unit, they certainly can do the same for externals can they not??

I would think the same. Some people have theorized the PVR (from the cable company's point of view) is not intended to compete with VOD, which it might if the # hrs increased significantly.
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post #1533 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by walk View Post

I can't figure out why it's such a chore to convert the internal encryption to E-SATA drives.
I mean they are both SATA drives, one is just internal. If they can make it so the files there are encrypted and cannot be played back on any other unit, they certainly can do the same for externals can they not??

I agree. I remember hearing a while back there was a problem with the Moto firmware and someone said (was it scanpa??) it would be fixed by this summer. That was a while ago though.
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post #1534 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Definitely, I'm seriously mulling over getting a second one myself since it would only add about $9 to my monthly bill, including the TiVo subscription. What's holding me back is I don't know when Comcast is going to upgrade this system up here, if I get the 2nd S3 I would like to be able to drop some of the premium channels and maybe Dish or DirecTV altogether and just go with Comcast for those channels. I suspect that I won't see anymore HD until 2008 though, and who knows what will be available by then.

I've read in the past few days that TiVo plans to cut back severely on rebate programs soon so I don't know if this sort of deal will be around much anymore, this current one ends the 16th I believe.

You're going to love that S3, spend another $120 or so and you can triple your record space, which BTW, is about 6-7 times the space of the Moto DVR.

How did you figure only $9/mo extra? The best I can figure is $17/mo as follows: $6.95 TiVo service ($12.95, 3 yrs, less $6 MSD), $6.99 add'l digital outlet fee, $3 (2 cablecards).
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post #1535 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Yes, Costco only sells them online. You can however return them at the store or by mail.

tivocommunity.com has the most general posts. There are some other sites more focused on modifying tivo.

As far as best price, I'm not sure about the TiVoCommunity Store, but with Amazon I don't think Californians pay any sales tax so that's something to consider. I haven't narrowed down the best deal yet, but I think online, somewhere, will get the best price.
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post #1536 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post


Regarding HDMI 1.3 it is pointless for a cable device to have HDMI 1.3. The content cannot make use of it. It is a complete separate debate whether HDMI 1.3 is useful so I won't go into it here.

Excellent point, as far as I know, there is no broadcast or cable TV material now or even in the near future that could make any use of HDMI 1.3 features, HDMI 1.1 should work just fine for years to come.
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post #1537 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

I would think the same. Some people have theorized the PVR (from the cable company's point of view) is not intended to compete with VOD, which it might if the # hrs increased significantly.

The PVR will never conflict with the money-making aspect of VOD. In fact, expanded storage will reduce the need by the cable company to provide a lot of free VOD. Regarding the Moto 6412, it is true enough that the basic storage can be doubled to 160 GB which is far too much for me. I believe that the firmware is supposed to be updated during the end of 2007 to allow for the addition of external drives.

However, Motorola already is pushing to the cable companies a different machine that will allow a variety of other inputs, remote programming and multi-room viewing. As U-verse and FiOS are already offering these capabilities, I think that Comcast and other cable companies will go that way soon.

My guess is that the 2nd generation of the Moto boxes will be far better than the current one and they will sport improvements in functionality and interface. Again, my guess is that they will be available sooner rather than later. If you figure in the price of a Tivo subscription, these boxes are essentially free, to they are $500 cheaper than the S3.

Users buying the S3s are actually hurting Tivo. Tivo should follow the the gaming console or printer manufacturers who sell the hardware for peanuts and make money from games or cartridges. If Tivo gives a dual-HD tuner bi-directional box for $100, then it will accrue a huge user base and with these boxes at homes, it can start selling other services (iTunes through a Tivo box??). Unfortunately, this company is just too dumb!
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post #1538 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hiker View Post

How did you figure only $9/mo extra? The best I can figure is $17/mo as follows: $6.95 TiVo service ($12.95, 3 yrs, less $6 MSD), $6.99 add'l digital outlet fee, $3 (2 cablecards).

Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?
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post #1539 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikef5 View Post

And that's were the problems is, way to vague to base any informed buying decision on. That's why I was hoping to find more info on the new Tivo ( Tivo-Lite ) that's rumored to be coming out. If it will be bi-directional and make use of the M-card then the rumored $400 price would be well worth it and I'd buy it in a micro. The problem is finding reliable information

Laters,
Mikef5

It's sort of a Catch 22 situation, do you get the S3 now for a great price, knowing that TiVo is cutting back on rebate type pricing, or do you wait for the Lite model, not even knowing what features it may have?

You have to figure that when/if the Lite model comes out it's going to priced significantly lower than the S3, in other words, if it's priced in the $300-400 range I can't imagine there'll be any deals for the S3 in the same price range as it is now.
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post #1540 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?

My bill this month said the price for the 2 cablecards has increased to $1.79.
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post #1541 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?

Not sure if they only give one CC on the account free or the 2nd CC on each TiVo free.
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post #1542 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hiker View Post

Not sure if they only give one CC on the account free or the 2nd CC on each TiVo free.

The 1st CableCard for the second TiVo should be covered by the additional outlet charge.
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post #1543 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by c3 View Post

The 1st CableCard for the second TiVo should be covered by the additional outlet charge.

That seems logical.

Anyone else seen their CC charge go up to $1.79 as cstar's has?
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post #1544 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by aretzios View Post

Regarding the Moto 6412, it is true enough that the basic storage can be doubled to 160 GB which is far too much for me.

Okay, this statement explains a lot about your views on the S3, you appear to be simply not a PVR person as there's no way by any stretch of the imagination that 15 hrs of HD recording space can be called "far too much" by anyone who time-shifts most of their TV viewing.

For anyone who is an avid TV viewer(of course we all should go outside more often ) there is no comparison between the S3 and the 6412, they're really in two separate leagues.
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post #1545 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by aretzios View Post

The PVR will never conflict with the money-making aspect of VOD. In fact, expanded storage will reduce the need by the cable company to provide a lot of free VOD.

Again you are welcome to your opinion, but for me, I have a limited amount of time per week I watch TV. If I spend that time watching my backlog of recorded shows, I'm not spending that time purchasing VOD content. I know some people out there who just must watch a movie and will either rent it, buy it, or VOD it, but for me, I'm happy viewing any content that I find interesting so as long as I have a backlog, I'll end up watching that instead of VOD.
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post #1546 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

As far as best price, I'm not sure about the TiVoCommunity Store, but with Amazon I don't think Californians pay any sales tax so that's something to consider. I haven't narrowed down the best deal yet, but I think online, somewhere, will get the best price.

TCS and Amazon have the best price right now considering they don't charge tax. Costco has the standard Costco advantages, but you pay tax.

People were hoping for 25% amazon coupon from amex wishlist, but looks like no such luck for spring wishlist. In fact the whole wishlist thing seems to have gone downhill this time around.
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post #1547 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

TCS and Amazon have the best price right now considering they don't charge tax. Costco has the standard Costco advantages, but you pay tax.

People were hoping for 25% amazon coupon from amex wishlist, but looks like no such luck for spring wishlist. In fact the whole wishlist thing seems to have gone downhill this time around.

With Costco you wouldn't even have to bother with an extended warranty, I'm guessing that's the advantage you mean? Most of those warranties will be more than the tax so that's something to consider. When I got my S3 from BB I lucked out and only paid the standard TiVo warranty cost, they later corrected that and starting charging almost twice IIRC.
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post #1548 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Again you are welcome to your opinion, but for me, I have a limited amount of time per week I watch TV. If I spend that time watching my backlog of recorded shows, I'm not spending that time purchasing VOD content. I know some people out there who just must watch a movie and will either rent it, buy it, or VOD it, but for me, I'm happy viewing any content that I find interesting so as long as I have a backlog, I'll end up watching that instead of VOD.

I agree that it is a matter of evaluation. Paid VOD can only work if consumers want to see the latest movies instead of waiting for the DVD or ordering the DVD. As it is, VOD offers a lot of free content as well.
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post #1549 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Okay, this statement explains a lot about your views on the S3, you appear to be simply not a PVR person as there's no way by any stretch of the imagination that 15 hrs of HD recording space can be called "far too much" by anyone who time-shifts most of their TV viewing.

For anyone who is an avid TV viewer(of course we all should go outside more often ) there is no comparison between the S3 and the 6412, they're really in two separate leagues.

Well, I not being a "PVR" person have owned a Tivo essentially since its introduction!! I still have the box somewhere in my garage. My feeling is that the S3 is bad for Tivo and bad for consumers. However, if you feel that it if you indeed massively record, then the S3, however bad as a value proposition, is your only solution.
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post #1550 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 08:20 PM
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I find the PQ on the present A's game,on Channel 720 (FSNHD), to be extremely jerky. It seems like it's skipping frames. Do others see it this way?
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post #1551 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:19 PM
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I find the PQ on the present A's game,on Channel 720 (FSNHD), to be extremely jerky. It seems like it's skipping frames. Do others see it this way?

Pictures fine down here in the ghetto's. Have you tried swapping tuners ?? You might have one of your tuners going bad. Also, check your connections and your splitters if you have them installed, could be loose connections or signal strength being to low because of the drops across your splitters.

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post #1552 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikef5 View Post

Pictures fine down here in the ghetto's. Have you tried swapping tuners ?? You might have one of your tuners going bad. Also, check your connections and your splitters if you have them installed, could be loose connections or signal strength being to low because of the drops across your splitters.

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Nope, swapping tuners has no effect. The jerkiness is most obvious on following the pitched ball: it seems like one is seeing the ball in a stroboscope, i.e., only at about every 3 ft or so of its flight.
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post #1553 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Nope, swapping tuners has no effect. The jerkiness is most obvious on following the pitched ball: it seems like one is seeing the ball in a stroboscope, i.e., only at about every 3 ft or so of its flight.

Do you have splitters in your line ?? Try running the cable directly to the box with no splitters in the line and hook the box to the Tv ( HDMI/Component it doesn't matter) and see if you still have the problem. If you do you need to have a tech check your line and signal strength. Is this the only channel that you see this on ??

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post #1554 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 10:03 PM
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I've been seeing problems on this channel for a few weeks now (as well as KICU). For some reason, during the 7th or 8th inning (and sometimes the 9th), the TV gets distorted and makes it look like the A's have blown another lead. I know this can't be real so it must be the signal.
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post #1555 of 15246 Old 06-04-2007, 10:15 PM
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I've been seeing problems on this channel for a few weeks now (as well as KICU). For some reason, during the 7th or 8th inning (and sometimes the 9th), the TV gets distorted and makes it look like the A's have blown another lead. I know this can't be real so it must be the signal.

It definitely can't be real, only the Giants blow big leads

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post #1556 of 15246 Old 06-05-2007, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by aretzios View Post

Well, I not being a "PVR" person have owned a Tivo essentially since its introduction!! I still have the box somewhere in my garage. My feeling is that the S3 is bad for Tivo and bad for consumers. However, if you feel that it if you indeed massively record, then the S3, however bad as a value proposition, is your only solution.

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.
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post #1557 of 15246 Old 06-05-2007, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3 View Post

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.

Absolutely, that was probably the major reason why I went with the S3, I got tired of paying $75 a month for stuff I didn't want just to be able to record HD.

This is something people often overlook when comparing costs, that Comcast DVR costs not $9.95 or $11.95(whatever it is now) per month, but $11.95 plus a subscription to Expanded Basic, another $25-30 minimum, and if I remember correctly you have to have Digital Classic as well for another $9.95, for a total DVR cost per month of around $45. That's fine for folks who watch those channels, but for the HD viewer it's just money thrown away.
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post #1558 of 15246 Old 06-05-2007, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by c3 View Post

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.

I have to ask for some clarification here. I think that content is quite independent of what DVR you have. You have a choice of programming and you can select specific groups of digital service (silver, gold, platinum) with some elaborations. You do not have to purchase and VOD movie if you do not want to. The cost of a DVR plus HD is, I believe, about $10, and you pay this and more for your Tivo subscripiton. So, your justification for S3 as a money saving vehicle does not seem to hold water. I understand your need to record a lot of shows, but this is a separate argument.
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post #1559 of 15246 Old 06-05-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aretzios View Post

I have to ask for some clarification here. I think that content is quite independent of what DVR you have. You have a choice of programming and you can select specific groups of digital service (silver, gold, platinum) with some elaborations. You do not have to purchase and VOD movie if you do not want to. The cost of a DVR plus HD is, I believe, about $10, and you pay this and more for your Tivo subscripiton. So, your justification for S3 as a money saving vehicle does not seem to hold water. I understand your need to record a lot of shows, but this is a separate argument.

You obviously didn't read Keenan's reply right above yours. There is plenty of clarification there. Do you have an agenda, artezios?

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post #1560 of 15246 Old 06-05-2007, 08:17 AM
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artezios, in other words, what is the least do you think you need pay comcast to get all HD channels and DVR?

With Tivo it is : Limited Basic + Digital Classic : around $26 + Tivo cost.
For Comcast DVR, I think is is : Standard Cable + Digical Classic : around $65 + DVR Cost ($12).
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