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post #7201 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

Comcast has just added FX HD, Fox News HD, and Speed HD in Baltimore City.

Same in Howard County.
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post #7202 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyd79 View Post

Same in Howard County.

any word on MoCo? I've been waiting for Speed and FX for FOREVER

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post #7203 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 08:01 AM
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Nice of Comcast to finally give us those 3 new HD channels but then require the Digital Classic package to get them despite the SD versions all being included in the Digital Starter package. I really want Speed HD, but I'm not about to pay the $15 extra a month to get it.

Naturally Comcast's site hasn't been updated to show the new channel listings. Of course, that wouldn't help anyways given how many errors are in the channel list, like how they show Mojo as included in Digital Starter when it actually required Digital Classic.

Update: Eventually the new channels were authorized. No more black screens. Yay.
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post #7204 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 10:12 AM
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any news on these channels coming to comcast in DC?
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post #7205 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyd79 View Post

Same in Howard County.

So any idea what channel numbers they are? I'm in Maple Lawn (HoCo, I think) at work, and I don't see the new channels.

I'll try to reboot the box and see if they come up...

-John

UPDATE: Reboot worked, they are there, but no guide data.
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post #7206 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeler View Post

That's a lot of antenna for Boyds MD. I have a CM4221 and can't get any VHF analog channels clear but it's a killer digital UHF antenna way out here in Hamilton. I was looking at the new CM4228HD the upgraded version of your antenna. The specs show it receives high VHF signals from Ch 7 on up into the full UHF range which is perfect for this area. Problem is the 4228HD is quite a bit bigger than my current antenna and also bigger than the discontinued CM4228 so I will have to relocate the new antenna when/if I get it.

Since you are having such good luck with the 4221, why not just augment it with a "real" VHF antenna?

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13
or
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=YA1713

Combine the 2 antennas with a UVSJ

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

IMO, it's too much of a gamble at your distance to spend all that money on a new 4228 and hope it works.(No matter what CM says; it is a UHF antenna with "some" VHF capabilites)

This is much cheaper too.
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post #7207 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 12:40 PM
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It is a lot of Antenna. There was a guy here on the Forum named Tahoerob who used to post daily like many of us. Well he offered it up one day and at the time my Attic antenna wasn't cutting it. So I had Dave from Fairfax antenna install it along with a rotator. Is it to much antenna? Well, I get every channel that I list on the first post, so I have nothing to complain about, and maybe that's why it was worth it.

Going to sign up for Dish Network? PM me for a ClubDish referral number that will give you a $50 credit on your first bill.
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post #7208 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Since you are having such good luck with the 4221, why not just augment it with a "real" VHF antenna?

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13
or
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=YA1713

Combine the 2 antennas with a UVSJ

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

IMO, it's too much of a gamble at your distance to spend all that money on a new 4228 and hope it works.(No matter what CM says; it is a UHF antenna with "some" VHF capabilites)

This is much cheaper too.


I thought of that but I don't want 3 antenna's on my house (UHF, VHF, D*)

The 4228 and 4228HD are 2 different antenna's. http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228HD.htm

Also I like to deal with Warren Electronics. They are great and are usually much cheaper than Solid Signal, for the 4228HD Warren is $15.00 cheaper.
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post #7209 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneGT View Post

It is a lot of Antenna. There was a guy here on the Forum named Tahoerob who used to post daily like many of us. Well he offered it up one day and at the time my Attic antenna wasn't cutting it. So I had Dave from Fairfax antenna install it along with a rotator. Is it to much antenna? Well, I get every channel that I list on the first post, so I have nothing to complain about, and maybe that's why it was worth it.


I wasn't being critical and you can't beat a free antenna!
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post #7210 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeler View Post

OTA'ers out there any thought of the type/model antenna you are going to buy for use after February 9 ?

Currently, I'm using a Channel Master VHF/UHF/FM CM-3020 (on a rotor) with a CM-0264DSB pre-amp mounted at 26'. I'm trying to get it moved to my 40' tower and make some evaluations about where I go next from there.

I'd like to test both Extreme Deep Fringe UHF and VHF antennas. I may need to move to a twin ganged UHF yagi before it's all said and done.
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post #7211 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableuser001 View Post

My questions
1. Does anyone know if CW is going to switch to 1MW transmission any sooner? Right now they transmit analog at 1MW and digital at 125KW.

2. Can I make a loop antenna with a circumference of 0.431/2=0.216m and get this channel reliably?

Any ideas?

Thanks.

1) I don't think they will be going to 1MW until Feb.
2) Try a Di-Pole instead. It would be easy to make, small, and outputs 300 Ohms.
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post #7212 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 08:03 PM
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I use a couple of Square shooter antennas which have worked very well with UHF the last 4.5 years. Hopefully there won't be any problems with VHF. Although it is a backup to FIOS.

At my girlfriends who has OTA only in FOrt Washington. I got her a couple of RCA table top antennas(ANT1251) that has separately built in variable amps for UHF and VHF. They work exteremly well and pick up all the stations in Baltimore and DC. And they are small and barely take up any space. Although once VHF is used I guess I need to extend the VHF antennas. Right now they are hidden.

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post #7213 of 13832 Old 11-20-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableuser001 View Post

Hi,
I am within 15 miles NW of the towers in DC. CW's digital transmission is at 125KW, rest of the big 4 are at 1MW. I am using DTV Pal (from echostar). The antenna is a DIY coat hanger antenna. I tried the Phillips MANT 940, but even then, CW is breaking up (60% signal). On this device anything less than 60% has issues, so I want to be at least at 70% on average.

I am unable to get CW unless I have the antenna high above (which is not possible on a permanent basis, as I live in a rented property).
...
1. Does anyone know if CW is going to switch to 1MW transmission any sooner? Right now they transmit analog at 1MW and digital at 125KW.

I missed seeing your post, so a belated reply. I have no problems getting WDCW-DT 50 at 16 miles from Sterling even with an indoor Silver Sensor antenna. WDCW-DT is operating at 125 kW on UHF 51, but that is still a decent digital power level for UHF. You might get better results with 2 or 4 bay bowtie antenna for the UHF stations and there are plans for a DIY 4 bay bowtie.

WDCW-DT will flash cut to 50 on February 18, currently authorized to operate at 122 kW. WDCW-DT filed a maximized power application to increase the power post-transition to 1000 kW, but the FCC has not granted their application yet. The FCC has seemingly been slow to process the maximize power applications. Only a few have been granted so far for our area. BTW, WJLA-DT 7 is at 646 kW on UHF 39 and WRC-DT is at 813 kW on UHF 48; only 2 of big 4 in DC are at 1000 kW.

On the subject of antennas, the CM4228 8 bay has more gain than the CM4221 4 Bay. But the CM4228 (or the new CM4228H made-in-China version) is much more directional than the CM4221. So for locations where the stations are scattered far apart in different directions, the CM 4221 is the more useful. I have a CM 4221 in the attic and added a Winegard YA-6713 upper VHF antenna (since discontinued) to be ready for February 18 (89 days to go).
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post #7214 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

I missed seeing your post, so a belated reply. I have no problems getting WDCW-DT 50 at 16 miles from Sterling even with an indoor Silver Sensor antenna. WDCW-DT is operating at 125 kW on UHF 51, but that is still a decent digital power level for UHF. You might get better results with 2 or 4 bay bowtie antenna for the UHF stations and there are plans for a DIY 4 bay bowtie.

WDCW-DT will flash cut to 50 on February 18, currently authorized to operate at 122 kW. WDCW-DT filed a maximized power application to increase the power post-transition to 1000 kW, but the FCC has not granted their application yet. The FCC has seemingly been slow to process the maximize power applications. Only a few have been granted so far for our area. BTW, WJLA-DT 7 is at 646 kW on UHF 39 and WRC-DT is at 813 kW on UHF 48; only 2 of big 4 in DC are at 1000 kW.

On the subject of antennas, the CM4228 8 bay has more gain than the CM4221 4 Bay. But the CM4228 (or the new CM4228H made-in-China version) is much more directional than the CM4221. So for locations where the stations are scattered far apart in different directions, the CM 4221 is the more useful. I have a CM 4221 in the attic and added a Winegard YA-6713 upper VHF antenna (since discontinued) to be ready for February 18 (89 days to go).

How do you know the CM4228HD is much more directional than the CM4221? The antenna isn't even on the market yet and there are no product reviews.
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post #7215 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeler View Post

How do you know the CM4228HD is much more directional than the CM4221? The antenna isn't even on the market yet and there are no product reviews.

The CM 4228HD is still two stacks of 4 bowties side-by-side. The only major change in the design are two continuous horizontal screens (with horizontal bars only) across the width of the antenna which is obviously aimed at improving upper VHF reception (and fix the notch for VHF 8 reception in the current CM4228). Probably some changes to the feed line. But those mods are not going to change the beam pattern for UHF reception much.

Beam pattern for CM 4221: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html
Beam pattern for CM 4228: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html
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post #7216 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 01:29 PM
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I have a CM4228 on my rrof with a rotor right now and my plan is just to wait until the change in February and see whether I can still pick up channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 when they revert. I get them with my indoor antennae here in Laurel, so I'm hopeful that even thought the CM4228 is UHF only, it will get enough of a signal to keep me from having to replace it.
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post #7217 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 02:39 PM
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Thanks all for their suggestions. I'll try this. I have a few more questions.

1. The antenna on top our building was fixed by the housing people and I get all channels except WRC/NBC . I get it barely, and I see a lot of signal dropping. All the towers of NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX are at the same location. So, why am I getting it so bad?

2. For the antenna, what gage of wire is suggested. Someone was using coat hanger, someone else used #8 copper wire. How does the gauge of the wire affect the reception.

3. For a DB4 DIY antenna made out of coat hangers, can I use a closed triangle instead of open ended Vs, for the elements. I just want to eliminate any sharp ends and also, I have seen someone using a bow-tie design. However, this bow tie design was just a single one. Any ideas?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

1) I don't think they will be going to 1MW until Feb.
2) Try a Di-Pole instead. It would be easy to make, small, and outputs 300 Ohms.

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post #7218 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 03:15 PM
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How well do you receive CW50? WRC is on 48 at full power (813 KW) and 50 is at partial power of 125 KW. Maybe you have a dip in your antenna that affects 48.

The bigger the wire (copper is best), the better the gain.
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post #7219 of 13832 Old 11-21-2008, 03:18 PM
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I can't receive CW50 at all. With MANT940 antenna, I was barely able to receive CW50.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

How well do you receive CW50? WRC is on 48 at full power (813 KW) and 50 is at partial power of 125 KW. Maybe you have a dip in your antenna that affects 48.

The bigger the wire (copper is best), the better the gain.

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post #7220 of 13832 Old 11-22-2008, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cableuser001 View Post

I can't receive CW50 at all. With MANT940 antenna, I was barely able to receive CW50.

Thanks.

Where are you located?
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post #7221 of 13832 Old 11-22-2008, 05:49 PM
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CW50 is my weakest station as well. I can get it with the roof antenna aimed just right, but it's still not that stable. Can't get it at all with the indoor antenna. My24 is about on that same level from Baltimore.
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post #7222 of 13832 Old 11-22-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carltonrice View Post

CW50 is my weakest station as well. I can get it with the roof antenna aimed just right, but it's still not that stable. Can't get it at all with the indoor antenna. My24 is about on that same level from Baltimore.

I get CW50 just fine out here in Steeler country
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post #7223 of 13832 Old 11-22-2008, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carltonrice View Post

CW50 is my weakest station as well. I can get it with the roof antenna aimed just right, but it's still not that stable. Can't get it at all with the indoor antenna. My24 is about on that same level from Baltimore.

For digital broadcast, WDCW-DT's 125 kW on UHF 51 is not that weak a signal. There is approximately a 16:1 ratio between equivalent analog and digital power (ERP to be specific). The coverage maps for WDCW-TV's 4168 kW analog broadcast and the digital 125 kW are not that different.

There is a possible source of interference, WMAR-DT ABC 2 broadcasting on UHF 52 at 602 kW in Baltimore. But it should only be a issue for those closer to the WMAR-DT's broadcast tower in NW Baltimore or north of it where the signal from WMAR-DT is much stronger than the WDCW-DT's signal. Directional antennas in some spots can help. The adjacent channel issue for those 2 stations will go away after February 17 when WDCW-DT 50 flash cuts to UHF 50 and WMAR-DT moves to UHF 38 at 1000 kW.

But WDCW-DT should not be that difficult to get withing the outer edges of this coverage map area except up close to Baltimore: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT623485.html. Since WDCW-DT is in the upper UHF channel range, it will have higher loss for long cable runs. If the cable is RG-59 for a medium to long length run, switching to shielded RG-6 might help with getting WRC-DT on UHF 48 or WDCW-DT on UHF 51.
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post #7224 of 13832 Old 11-22-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

There is a possible source of interference, WMAR-DT ABC 2 broadcasting on UHF 52 at 602 kW in Baltimore. But it should only be a issue for those closer to the WMAR-DT's broadcast tower in NW Baltimore or north of it where the signal from WMAR-DT is much stronger than the WDCW-DT's signal. Directional antennas in some spots can help. The adjacent channel issue for those 2 stations will go away after February 17 when WDCW-DT 50 flash cuts to UHF 50 and WMAR-DT moves to UHF 38 at 1000 kW.

That is what I hope will happen in February. When the stations stop playing musical chairs, then we'll have to see where we're at and what's still lacking. Where I live, although I'm on 6 miles outside the DC beltway and 25 miles outside the Baltimore beltway, the stations from TV Hill in Baltimore are all strong with the closer DC transmitters not so much. It is probable that the Baltimore frequencies could be causing some interference in my case. WMAR-DT is the strongest of my signals.
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post #7225 of 13832 Old 11-23-2008, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by carltonrice View Post

It is probable that the Baltimore frequencies could be causing some interference in my case. WMAR-DT is the strongest of my signals.

Yes, with Baltimore & DC being about 180 degrees opposite of each other, that is very likely.
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post #7226 of 13832 Old 11-23-2008, 08:56 AM
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Been away from this thread for ages, and finally came back to see what was the story for February OTA. Glad to see we only need to worry about 7 and 9.

I tested my CM4221, running a spare splitter output into the "antenna in" on my old Sammie DLP (from 2003: no ATSC!), and 7 and 9 are good enough (I forgot how analog looked... ) that it should be fine come February.

So, for anyone in the South Riding/SE Loudoun/Western Fairfax area in a similar situation who hasn't tested, you may be good to go.

(Unless I've misdigested what's in the last twenty pages of this thread and the 'what's changing in Feb nationally' thread... )

-Lee (See my profile for equipment.)
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post #7227 of 13832 Old 11-23-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesweet View Post

Been away from this thread for ages, and finally came back to see what was the story for February OTA. Glad to see we only need to worry about 7 and 9.

I tested my CM4221, running a spare splitter output into the "antenna in" on my old Sammie DLP (from 2003: no ATSC!), and 7 and 9 are good enough (I forgot how analog looked... ) that it should be fine come February.

So, for anyone in the South Riding/SE Loudoun/Western Fairfax area in a similar situation who hasn't tested, you may be good to go.

(Unless I've misdigested what's in the last twenty pages of this thread and the 'what's changing in Feb nationally' thread... )

Hmmmm, you think you can get high VHF with your 4221 UHF only antenna. That's interesting. You are about the same distance from the towers as me. Hopefully my 4221 will produce the same results and I won't have to buy a UHF/VHF antenna. Can you pull in any B'more stations at your location?
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post #7228 of 13832 Old 11-23-2008, 08:17 PM
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Actually its funny how you put a sad face about how analog looks. I did a scan with my TV's analog tuner the other day. This analog TV had either had Dish Network SD connected to it, or a digital converter box. Well after the analog scan there were a few channels that looked really good. Much better than they look (and what I've gotten acclimated too) on Dish Network due to compression.

Going to sign up for Dish Network? PM me for a ClubDish referral number that will give you a $50 credit on your first bill.
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post #7229 of 13832 Old 11-24-2008, 03:28 PM
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For the first time, I could barely get my Echostar TR-40 to scan CW50. However, it is at 54% and all I get is a blank screen. I get the PSIP EPG, since it is scanned, but no video. This is at 15miles northwest of DC.

Hope it improves after Feb 09.

Does anyone know if they are increasing their transmission power any sooner? I have seen some discussions about their application for doing the same, but unaware of any developments.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

For digital broadcast, WDCW-DT's 125 kW on UHF 51 is not that weak a signal. There is approximately a 16:1 ratio between equivalent analog and digital power (ERP to be specific). The coverage maps for WDCW-TV's 4168 kW analog broadcast and the digital 125 kW are not that different.

There is a possible source of interference, WMAR-DT ABC 2 broadcasting on UHF 52 at 602 kW in Baltimore. But it should only be a issue for those closer to the WMAR-DT's broadcast tower in NW Baltimore or north of it where the signal from WMAR-DT is much stronger than the WDCW-DT's signal. Directional antennas in some spots can help. The adjacent channel issue for those 2 stations will go away after February 17 when WDCW-DT 50 flash cuts to UHF 50 and WMAR-DT moves to UHF 38 at 1000 kW.

But WDCW-DT should not be that difficult to get withing the outer edges of this coverage map area except up close to Baltimore: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT623485.html. Since WDCW-DT is in the upper UHF channel range, it will have higher loss for long cable runs. If the cable is RG-59 for a medium to long length run, switching to shielded RG-6 might help with getting WRC-DT on UHF 48 or WDCW-DT on UHF 51.

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I've got a request of people in the viewing area of WTTG (channel 5) and WDCA (channel 20) who have OTA digital TV equipment, particularly if the DTV equipment was manufactured before 2008. Could you check one evening to see if you have problems getting captions on 5.1 and/or 20.1 for reruns, i.e., *syndicated* programs like "The Simpsons," "Seinfield" and "King of the Hill", which are not broadcast live by satellite? (The digital captions for reruns are created on the fly by different technology (owned by the station) compared to the digital captions from (live) programs broadcast by satellite; the former is a problem while the latter is not an issue right now.)

I've been trying to get these captioning problems addressed FOR OVER A YEAR. I'm finally in communication with the engineering department about these problems, but more help is needed from people who have different kinds of digital TV equipment.

(The captions seem to be fine for prime-time shows broadcast by satellite. Digital captions from syndicated programs on WTTG and WDCA are received intact by two 2008 DTV devices that I have, but not by my 2006 HDTV---the digital captions disappear altogether after a few minutes.)

Whether or not you see digital captions throughout the program, it would be useful to know what brand of HDTV or DTV equipment you have and approximately when it was manufactured.

My guess is that the delay in the captions that are upconverted from analog to digital by WTTG and WDCA is causing older DTV equipment to be unable to decode the captions at all once the lack on synchronization occurs, but for some unknown reason, newer DTVs can still keep decoding the delayed captions.

There are two problems: the unacceptable delay in the captions and the inability of some TVs to show any of those delayed captions at all. No one knows what changed in the manufacturing process to allow some (newer? different brands of?) TVs to decode those delayed captions and at what point that change occurred.

So if different people in this viewing area could check out the status of captions from different digital TV equipment and let me know the particulars, that could go a long way towards trying to solve these problems before thousands of people are stuck with unworkable captions on February 18th, 2009.

If you'd like to help out, please email me at dmulvany@usa.net with "Report on captioning for digital programs from WTTG or WDCA" in the subject line and the following information in the body of your email:

1. Manufacturer of your DTV equipment:

2. Model number (if available)

3. Date of manufacture (on back of TV) or date purchased:

4. What rerun (syndicated TV program) you watched with digital captions turned on your DTV equipment:

5. How long did you watch with the captions turned on? (Please watch at least ten minutes):

6. Did all of the captions show up, even if there was a delay? If possible, please record the time of any problems that occurred:

7. Any other observations you think might be useful or relevant:

BTW, no one is getting paid anything extra to do this troubleshooting. I'm a person with severe hearing loss who depends on captioning and who would like to get these problems figured out before people with older HDTVs are stuck not being able to watch some digital programming next February 18th.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Dana Mulvany
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