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Old 06-26-2009, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RockvilleJ View Post

I will swap out the power supply tomorrow for a smaller one that I know did not interfere before. As for the third wire ground, couldn't I use an electrical current testing tool between the hot wire and the ground wire to check out the continuity? If the ground isn't good, then the circuit won't be complete, right? I believe plugging the pc into another outlet, even on a different floor would still eventually go back to the issue of the ground in the main panel box. How would I now if the ground was not proper in the main panel box?

But if it was a loose ground wire in this particular outlet, then it would make a difference. Anyhow, I'll try out different outlets on different floors with an extension cord.

Regarding the video card, this is the 2nd one that I have had in the pc and changing it out when the first one died, didn't alter the interference and putting a different card in there would be problematic since it's a newer type slot for which I don't have any extra cards lying around. But I'll keep wrestling with the issue.


Plugging the PC into a different outlet will prove if your outlet has a missing or loose ground connection, You are correct, It will not prove that main power panel is grounded correctly. A tester would probably prove an outlet had a totally missing ground, but might not catch a ground wire that is just loose and not connected tightly.

To prove a main power panel is not grounded properly, is really an electricians job. You want to know how to do things safely there. Sometimes a ground wire will loosen up there especially if aluminum wire was used. Aluminum tends to give problems like this, but it is used because it is cheaper than copper wire. It is normally just a matter of tightening up the big screws on the ground wires there, but again, you do not want to make a mistake there or you will get burned or even killed.

If your two video cards were of a different manufacturer, and you had the problems with both of them, then I would not think you have a video card problem. But if both cards were from the same manufacturer, then the video card is still a suspect. If both cards were the same model, you could have a manufacturers design problem and you could swap 10 of them and still have the problem.

I still suspect the power supply, but really it could be anything in the PC.
Yes, even a case fan. Not likely, but it does happen.
It could be memory, disk drives or a mother board. I would not suspect any of them, but it sure is difficult to troubleshoot it from a distance. CD or DVD drives would not be a suspect, but unplugging the power on them and booting the PC will prove if they are the culprits.
Try moving the various cable around. Make sure they are not tied together very tightly into a bundle.
Could it be a Cable or DSL modem that you are turning off when you turn the PC off? Anything else that gets turned off when you shut down you PC. Like a printer or scanner??? Or even a digital clock.
If you are not using Wi-Fi, are you using "power Line Networking"??
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SternLover21215 View Post

. . . . . Well, I got up this morning this morning to order my equipment and I was just flipping through the channels and I noticed I had channel WJLA was coming in perfect and WUSA was coming in very spotty. For the past 2 weeks in Baltimore I haven't been able to get them. Have these station increased their power?

No,

The atmosphere has been favorable for long distance signal enhancement lately. This is very common in warmer weather.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

I was not expecting Verizon to add WHAG NBC 25 to the HD line-up. But it is there and in the guide this morning. Was expecting Verizon to add WPXW Ion 66 to the HD local line-up next - and they still have not. Hagerstown is a subset of the Washington DC market and the new WHAG digital broadcast signal now covers much of the north and western areas of the DC metro area (and west of Baltimore as well), so maybe Nexstar Broadcasting talked Verizon into carrying the HD channel.

I can get WHAG-DT over the air from Sterling, but it has been tricky to find a aim and location for the CM 4221 that also gets all the DC stations, WNVC 30.1, WNVT 30.6, and the Baltimore stations including WUTB 24 at the same time. The trade-off has been between getting WUTB 24 reliably or getting a stable picture for WHAG. I can get WHAG 25 with a indoor Silver Sensor if I aim the antenna to the NW.

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

The overamplification of your system is the root of your problem. Since WUSA is now on VHF, you are noticing it's effects now where you didn't before. How many devices do you need to power from your antenna? You shouldn't need any boost unless you are running maybe 6 or more tuners off that antenna. A paperclip should be able to pick up WUSA in Kensington.

I'm not in Kensington, I'm in Germantown, and I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 perfectly before.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Big J View Post

I'm not in Kensington, I'm in Germantown, and I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 perfectly before.

Oooops, My apologies, I had you confused with huesmann.

You will be lucky to get WUSA-DT 9 reliably with any attic antenna in Germantown. Do you get WJLA-DT 7?
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chamb View Post

Plugging the PC into a different outlet will prove if your outlet has a missing or loose ground connection, You are correct, It will not prove that main power panel is grounded correctly. A tester would probably prove an outlet had a totally missing ground, but might not catch a ground wire that is just loose and not connected tightly.

To prove a main power panel is not grounded properly, is really an electricians job. You want to know how to do things safely there. Sometimes a ground wire will loosen up there especially if aluminum wire was used. Aluminum tends to give problems like this, but it is used because it is cheaper than copper wire. It is normally just a matter of tightening up the big screws on the ground wires there, but again, you do not want to make a mistake there or you will get burned or even killed.

If your two video cards were of a different manufacturer, and you had the problems with both of them, then I would not think you have a video card problem. But if both cards were from the same manufacturer, then the video card is still a suspect. If both cards were the same model, you could have a manufacturers design problem and you could swap 10 of them and still have the problem.

I still suspect the power supply, but really it could be anything in the PC.
Yes, even a case fan. Not likely, but it does happen.
It could be memory, disk drives or a mother board. I would not suspect any of them, but it sure is difficult to troubleshoot it from a distance. CD or DVD drives would not be a suspect, but unplugging the power on them and booting the PC will prove if they are the culprits.
Try moving the various cable around. Make sure they are not tied together very tightly into a bundle.
Could it be a Cable or DSL modem that you are turning off when you turn the PC off? Anything else that gets turned off when you shut down you PC. Like a printer or scanner??? Or even a digital clock.
If you are not using Wi-Fi, are you using "power Line Networking"??

I will try plugging into a different circuit today. It is odd though that this only showed up when I built the new pc and not previously. So, that's what leads me to believe that it is something in the new pc and not a pre-existing condition like an improper ground in the main panel (although I could be off base in this reasoning).

The two video cards were from different manufacturers so I don't think that they are at the root of this problem.

I have DSL and the modem is on 24/7, as is another pc on my wired network, so it's not the modem. Likewise, my printer, which is about 4 years old, also stays on after the pc is shut down. I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.

So, I'm back to the power supply again. I was going to simply switch it out today, but realized that I don't have one that has the proper connectors so I'm on my way to Micro Center this morning to purchase one. Finger crossed.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

I was wondering the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

I was not expecting Verizon to add WHAG NBC 25 to the HD line-up. But it is there and in the guide this morning. Was expecting Verizon to add WPXW Ion 66 to the HD local line-up next - and they still have not. Hagerstown is a subset of the Washington DC market and the new WHAG digital broadcast signal now covers much of the north and western areas of the DC metro area (and west of Baltimore as well), so maybe Nexstar Broadcasting talked Verizon into carrying the HD channel.

I can get WHAG-DT over the air from Sterling, but it has been tricky to find a aim and location for the CM 4221 that also gets all the DC stations, WNVC 30.1, WNVT 30.6, and the Baltimore stations including WUTB 24 at the same time. The trade-off has been between getting WUTB 24 reliably or getting a stable picture for WHAG. I can get WHAG 25 with a indoor Silver Sensor if I aim the antenna to the NW.

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.

Thanks for the info

if the station stays on FIOS I will change my season passes for NBC shows to that station. None of the bradcasts are as good as they were eight years ago.
I can easily see the difference when comparing what HD is broadcast now on the DC stations to HD recordings I made eight years ago when they didn't have any subchannels.

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Old 06-26-2009, 09:15 AM
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Well, we Dish Network customers have been getting WHAG for a long time now as part of the DC DMA. Since it has been SD only, I can't say that I've watched it that much other than a couple of "Hey, check this out" on the first days that it appeared.

Since for some reason Hagerstown is part of the DC DMA, I'm surprised that its not on all of the MSO that service the DC DMA.

Going to sign up for Dish Network? PM me for a ClubDish referral number that will give you a $50 credit on your first bill.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Oooops, My apologies, I had you confused with huesmann.

You will be lucky to get WUSA-DT 9 reliably with any attic antenna in Germantown. Do you get WJLA-DT 7?

That's Germantown MD, just north of Gaithersburg in Montgomery County.
WJLA is no problem. Like I said, I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 (talk about exciting ) for a couple years until now. I do get it through Comcast, but I am considering just dropping cable altogether-or was until CBS disappeared. The OTA picture tends to be better than via cable.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:44 AM
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Hopefully, WUSA-DT 9 will increase their power to a more realistic level, but there is no word of that happening yet.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

No,

The atmosphere has been favorable for long distance signal enhancement lately. This is very common in warmer weather.

Thanks Digital Rules, that explains why the stations didn't come in a little while ago. Guess I'll be putting in my order for my DB2 and AC C5 today.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?



Just my good educated guess ---- it is OTA since a fiber feed from Hagerstown to DC would be very costly. Small town stations generally do not have that type of money available, especially now when advertising income is probably way down. The good thing is that the WHAG OTA signal is of top quality.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RockvilleJ View Post

I will try plugging into a different circuit today. It is odd though that this only showed up when I built the new pc and not previously. So, that's what leads me to believe that it is something in the new pc and not a pre-existing condition like an improper ground in the main panel (although I could be off base in this reasoning).

The two video cards were from different manufacturers so I don't think that they are at the root of this problem.

I have DSL and the modem is on 24/7, as is another pc on my wired network, so it's not the modem. Likewise, my printer, which is about 4 years old, also stays on after the pc is shut down. I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.

So, I'm back to the power supply again. I was going to simply switch it out today, but realized that I don't have one that has the proper connectors so I'm on my way to Micro Center this morning to purchase one. Finger crossed.

Another thought, coiling up cords can cause some funny problems. if you have the power cord coiled up or tied in a bundle of cables, try straightening that out.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by chamb View Post

The good thing is that the WHAG OTA signal is of top quality.

I'm curious as to where they have the antenna for that? It would need to be well northwest of DC to avoid co-channel interference from Richmond.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:59 PM
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The word from WHAG Engineering:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

No, it is not a fluke. It is supposed to be available to the entire DC coverage area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?

Fiber it is.

This is very nice, because I have no usable signal from WHAG at my location in Fairfax. Last night I moved an 8-bay all around the attic. Got KYW again, and later on WRLH, but if there was ever any signal from WHAG it was either way too weak to lock, or destroyed by the co-channel from Philly and Richmond.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:14 PM
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WRC-4 went dark at 12:00 noon.
WMPT-22 went dark at 12:31 pm.

No ceremonies. They both just went to snow in the middle of the nightlight loop.

Meanwhile, WTTG-5 shrunk its nightlight program sometime in the past few days. It is now windowboxed.

Why can't stations get aspect ratios figured out? It's a nightlight program fer cryin' out loud. Whoever would want to see that in widescreen?
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelly From KOMO View Post

What is bothering your channel 7 DTV reception is not EMI nor RFI, but Impulse noise. The two typical devices that cause noise on the VHF band are the switching power supply in the CPU, and/or the computer monitor. Your case is not effective enough to shield out the noise, some of which is introduced to the neutral AC wiring in the house.

If there is electrical wiring in your attic, that would be more than likely the 'noise antenna', transmitting the noise from your computer power supply and thus disrupting your channel 7. The problem is the neutral connection is all bonded together, so all your home wiring would have the problem. An AC isolation transformer connected to your computer may help, but the neutral and ground pin are bonded at your electrical panel anyway. You could try an isolation transformer, then use a ground lift adaptor.. But you're effectively floating the ground for your computer connection. Depending on the situation, that may not be safe for the long haul.

Moving your antenna outdoors away from the interference and the ability to capture more TV signal, is always the best option.

Electrical outlet feedback was exactly the same thing that popped into my head when I read the problem.

RockvilleJ,

Try using a true isolation UPS between your computer and wall outlet. Try looking for one with a network filtering capability for your Power Line Network.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RockvilleJ View Post

I did have someone with engineering background suggest that I 'ground' the pc case to a water pipe, providing a separate ground from the one in the electrical system. Would that make a difference on a temporary basis to isolate the issue?

Unless the water pipe is bonded to the electrical ground and your absolutely positive that it's metal from the computer to the ground bonding point, DO NOT DO THIS! You will create a ground potential issue, which can create a shock hazard capable of killing you. This can happen, when you touch the metal case of your computer and any other object that is metal and plugged into an electrical outlet.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.

I talked with the engineer at WHAG-DT and posted awhile back. They have no plans to add any sub-channels to their transmission. I'll see what I can find out about the other issues.

On another note, I finally connected with the engineer at WDCA about W51CY. They have submitted quote requests for converting to digital and are still planning on turning W51CY back "ON," when they get the conversion done. I asked about turning the analog transmission back "ON" and was told that they don't have any equipment to receive their primary DTV transmission for broadcasting. I wonder if they could use a CM7000?

Bottom line is that when Corporate gets their priority down to that level and they have the equipment, it will get done. We'll see it turned "ON," when it gets turned "ON."
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RockvilleJ View Post

I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.

Maybe so, but the card in the new PC build may be reacting differently. Try disconnecting the PC from this network.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chamb View Post

Small town stations generally do not have that type of money available, especially now when advertising income is probably way down.

WJAL-DT was sending their content to all the cable systems throughout the area via fiber (and may still be), when their facilities went up in smoke at the tower.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

I'm curious as to where they have the antenna for that? It would need to be well northwest of DC to avoid co-channel interference from Richmond.


I know exactly where the transmitter is at. At Clear Spring, Md West of Hagerstown and north of I-70. On top of a mountain with 575KW of Power.
Some station use more power, but they do not have the elevation. The height of the antenna allows for great coverage.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:34 PM
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I just checked my Sunkey SK-801ATSC CECB and WHAG-DT is broadcasting Oprah with CC1. I'll have to check the other programs and CECB's for more information later.

UPDATE: The Insignia -APT and APEX DT502 see it as "CC1," although I had to go into the menu on the APEX DT502 to activate it (the keypad button only allowed Auto and Service options). The Zinwell 970A sees it as "Caption1."

Does the station have the ability to put information in the PSIP stream to tell the CECB which options are available? I would have thought the "Auto" option on the APEX DT502 would have found the CC1 stream.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

WJAL-DT was sending their content to all the cable systems throughout the area via fiber (and may still be), when their facilities went up in smoke at the tower.

Now THAT really surprises me. I would suspect that the money is in short supply at that station. Who is paying for this?? Fiber rental is not cheap.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:37 PM
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WHAG-DT's antenna is 559.4 Meters AMSL here.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:01 PM
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What's going on with WBFF-DT sub-channel .2? I can see the ThisTV logo in the lower right corner, while the content is breaking up. I thought it was my reception at first, until I realized that I shouldn't be able to see the logo.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systems2000 View Post

What's going on with WBFF-DT sub-channel .2? I can see the ThisTV logo in the lower right corner, while the content is breaking up. I thought it was my reception at first, until I realized that I shouldn't be able to see the logo.

No issues here (10mi from tower). The quality of that program that's on now is pretty rotten, though

Is it still happening? Are the colors in the logo changing (since it's semi-transparent) or is it static for you? It sounds like a reception issue, I've seen where portions of the screen look OK with the rest garbage. Depends on the decoder and of course how they're encoding it. Or, I missed what you were seeing and it's all better now ... Mark is pretty quick fixing things up there!

We're having bad weather up here tonight. At this moment, there's a storm between me and the tower, but we're still drop-out free.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chamb View Post

I know exactly where the transmitter is at. At Clear Spring, Md West of Hagerstown and north of I-70. On top of a mountain with 575KW of Power.

Thanks,

I was referring to where FIOS was getting the signal from, but it appears to be a fiber feed.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:55 PM
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I'm watching KDFW-4 out of Dallas/Ft. Worth right now (night light service) pointing at the Southwest.

If I point to the North & NE, I am hearing Canadian TV (in French and English on 2, 3, and 4 (mostly audio only).
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