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post #13981 of 14001 Old 02-22-2015, 11:10 AM
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I don't think WUSA added any bandwidth to 9.3. Tried watching yesterday & just horrible PQ with tons of macro blocking. Don't see how anyone with anything larger than maybe a 19 inch set could stand to watch it.
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post #13982 of 14001 Old 02-22-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post
Some of what you are seeing is likely CBS itself. The Price is Right is filled with compression artifacts/mosquito noise at times on both channel 9 & 13 OTA.
Don’t know about PiR, but I generally find the picture on 13 has fewer digital artifacts than the picture on 9, and the audio quality is dramatically better on 13 then 9.

In fact, I find audio differences between DC and Baltimore stations more obvious than video differences on all of the big 4 commercial nets.

As I write this, The Oscars sound almost monaural on channel 2, while there’s so much surround on 7 I’m wondering if it’s synthetically enhanced. And channel 7 is all about that bass, no treble.

(This is OTA, running TiVo left and right analog through pro-logic with phantom center. MVPD and/or 5.1 mileage may vary.)
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post #13983 of 14001 Old 02-22-2015, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post
Some of what you are seeing is likely CBS itself. The Price is Right is filled with compression artifacts/mosquito noise at times on both channel 9 & 13 OTA.
Sorry, but the CBS network feeds are not filled with compression artifacts/mosquito noise. CBS feeds high bitrate 4:2:2 MPEG-2 video. The quality of programs like The Price is Right is beyond what is actually transmitted.

So, I hope you mean the local CBS affiliate. There is a difference between CBS and CBS affiliates.

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post #13984 of 14001 Old 02-22-2015, 11:42 PM
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There is a difference between CBS and CBS affiliates.
There's also a difference between an affiliate and an O&O, as I'm sure you know.

13 in Baltimore is an O&O.

So it really is CBS. Not the net, maybe, but definitely the company.
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post #13985 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 12:05 AM
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There's also a difference between an affiliate and an O&O, as I'm sure you know.

13 in Baltimore is an O&O.
IIRC, CBS O&Os do not have subchannels. I also understand that will be changing in the future.

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So it really is CBS. Not the net, maybe, but definitely the company.
I read the subject matter of these posts to be along the lines that the image quality is bad on CBS stations, specifically affiliates. So, it isn't the CBS network's fault that the video sucks on affiliates that have subchannels. Once subchannels show up on CBS O&Os, they too will have video that is subpar.

BTW, even if a station were to give the HD stream all of the available bits (no subchannels), 1080i still can be bit-starved, as our ATSC system just doesn't have the bits to do MPEG-2 1080i video justice. If only we had 8 MHz wide channels and used H.264 video, then things would look much better. That is until station owners add lots of subchannels to bit-starve the HD stream.

I don't know how the audio can be better on CBS O&Os over CBS affiliates, when all the stations get the same high quality Dolby-E audio. There is no reason for all CBS affiliates to do horrible audio processing that CBS O&Os don't do. You can't put all affiliates into the same pigeon hole.

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post #13986 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
IIRC, CBS O&Os do not have subchannels. I also understand that will be changing in the future.
Correct. 13 is the only full power station in DC/Baltimore that has neither subs nor mobile. And yes, unfortunately, I believe that will be changing.

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I don't know how the audio can be better on CBS O&Os over CBS affiliates,
I don’t know the how of it, either. All I know is when I switch between DC and Baltimore stations, I can easily hear the difference on every net I watch except PBS.

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There is no reason for all CBS affiliates to do horrible audio processing that CBS O&Os don't do. You can't put all affiliates into the same pigeon hole.
I made no generalization re affiliates vs. O&Os. You said, essentially, don’t blame CBS, and I said if someone doesn’t like the PQ on 13, there’s nobody to blame but CBS.

But I’m not the one who took issue with the PQ on 13. For my money, the AQ and PQ on 13 are the best in the DC/Baltimore market. The DC affiliate looks just as sharp to me but has more artifacts, and the DC affiliate is louder but it lacks treble and doesn’t sound as full as the Baltimore O&O.

On NBC, otoh, I prefer the sound on the Baltimore affiliated station to the DC O&O, because it sounds fuller, with more treble. A lot of people don’t like 11 because it doesn’t do 5.1, but I’d rather have 2 channels of 20-20 frequency response and a pro-logic decoder than 5.1 channels that sound like AM radio. I don’t see a difference in PQ on the NBC stations, though.

On ABC, the Baltimore affiliate looks sharper to me than the DC affiliate, and Baltimore has more treble, but DC has more surround.

On FOX, the Baltimore affiliate looks sharper than the DC O&O, but DC has fuller sound.

On PBS, MPT looks sharper than DC’s 26 and 32, but I think 26 might have the best color. And all three sound the same to me.

These comparisons are all OTA. I could never tell any difference between OTA and FiOS when I had it, but TiVo disk usage suggests that Cox compresses some stations.

Finally, I have to say that AQ and PQ deficiencies don’t bother me that much anymore, because about the only things I still watch on broadcast, or even basic cable, are news, the NFL, and specials like the Grammys and Oscars. With snipes, hashtags, network bugs, station bugs, weather bugs, weather crawls, time, temperature, wind chill, school closings, lottery numbers, and other garbage superimposed regularly over the programming, why worry about AQ and PQ? Channel 9 actually threw a crawl on top the Grammys at one point that said “WIN $5000 RIGHT NOW GO TO THE WUSA9 MOBILE APP NOW”.

Which is why I get most of my scripted programming from Netflix these days, which looks and sounds better than anything on broadcast or cable, not just because of its superior AQ and PQ, but also its complete lack of superimposed screen clutter, aka NOISE.
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post #13987 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 08:24 AM
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Is there any update on when WJLA 7.3 will change from Living Well Channel to whatever is replacing it? Thought it was supposed to have happened by now.
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post #13988 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
IIRC, CBS O&Os do not have subchannels. I also understand that will be changing in the future.
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Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post
...CBS and Weigel Broadcasting will be launching a re-run channel to be called Decades on May 25, 2015. According to the Wikipedia article, they are planning to distribute it on all 16 CBS owned and operated stations and further syndicating it to other stations as well, so that means that Baltimore WJZ-13 will finally have a subchannel..

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Is there any update on when WJLA 7.3 will change from Living Well Channel to whatever is replacing it? Thought it was supposed to have happened by now.
Live Well network got about a three month "stay of execution" to abet the transition to LAFF by ABC O&O's that had previously been planning to air locally originated programs, and that extension bought time for the other maybe 40 Live Well network affiliates to plan their own transitions.

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We now know that WMAR will be replacing (Live Well Network) with LAFF comedy channel.


ABC, Scripps to Carry New Broadcast Network Dedicated to Comedy

January 18, 2015

ATLANTA (January 18, 2015) – The country’s first-ever, over-the-air broadcast television network devoted to comedy around-the-clock will launch this spring when Katz Broadcasting debuts LAFF on April 15, 2015, it was announced today.

LAFF will feature a mix of contemporary off-network sitcoms and popular theatrical motion pictures, with a target audience of adults 18-49. The LAFF brand will cross multiple platforms, with the linear network carried on the signals of local broadcast television stations and corresponding cable carriage while companion digital content will be available at LAFF.com and via the LAFF app.

The ABC Owned Television Stations will carry LAFF in New York (WABC-TV), <snip>

The E.W. Scripps Company will also launch LAFF on its stations in Detroit (WXYZ-TV), <snip> Baltimore (WMAR-TV),...

These initial agreements will make LAFF available to more than 35% of the country, with more distribution additions expected to be announced shortly.

More...

WJLA already bumps some Live Well Network programming for College Basketball. They seem to be a prime candidate for LAFF starting on April 15, except that LAFF might tend to favor affiliation with a local subchannel that will commit to it for 24/7.

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post #13989 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 09:45 AM
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But WJLA isn't owned by ABC or Scripps, so we will have to see what Sinclair does with it. WJLA is Sinclair's only Live Well affiliate, with KATV in Little Rock having switched it to Grit at the beginning of the year.

I would be amused and not terribly surprised if WeatherNation was what landed on 7-3, since Sinclair has launched WeatherNation in several markets now including Baltimore.

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post #13990 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post
WJLA already bumps some Live Well Network programming for College Basketball. They seem to be a prime candidate for LAFF starting on April 15, except that LAFF might tend to favor affiliation with a local subchannel that will commit to it for 24/7.
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But WJLA isn't owned by ABC or Scripps, so we will have to see what Sinclair does with it.
That's the snag. The sporadic College Basketball programming I alluded to that presently bumps Live Well Network on WJLA is from Sinclair's own American Sports Network, so any subchannel that they might substitute would have to accept having its programming bumped, but LAFF, with its interactive programming, might be catering to an audience that considers it Must-See-TV and if so, they would tend to be averse to a shared subchannel.

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I would be amused and not terribly surprised if WeatherNation was what landed on 7-3, since Sinclair has launched WeatherNation in several markets now including Baltimore....
I'd certainly like to see it there. I service some Washington, DC metro area hotel TV system headends that liked having WUSA's localized Weather Nation on 9.3 it as their local weather channel. I've switched them to WBFF 45.3 where possible, but it doesn't serve their guests as well a did WUSA's localized presentation.

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post #13991 of 14001 Old 02-23-2015, 08:33 PM
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I made no generalization re affiliates vs. O&Os. You said, essentially, don’t blame CBS, and I said if someone doesn’t like the PQ on 13, there’s nobody to blame but CBS.
As I've said, the CBS network feed cannot be to blame. The network feed is 38 Mbps 4:2:2 MPEG-2 with 2.3 Mbps Dolby-E. Any video artifacts and/or audio issues will be the result of the particular station.

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On NBC, otoh, I prefer the sound on the Baltimore affiliated station to the DC O&O, because it sounds fuller, with more treble. A lot of people don’t like 11 because it doesn’t do 5.1, but I’d rather have 2 channels of 20-20 frequency response and a pro-logic decoder than 5.1 channels that sound like AM radio. I don’t see a difference in PQ on the NBC stations, though.
I do now know the frequency response of the NBC audio feed. It is 6 channels (via three stereo pairs) of MPEG audio. I'd have to do a capture of the C-band feed in order to run a FFT on it (I can't get the primary Ku feed). Strange that there are stations that still do not do 5.1.

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On ABC, the Baltimore affiliate looks sharper to me than the DC affiliate, and Baltimore has more treble, but DC has more surround.
ABC uses the same technology as ABC for the audio. I have no idea how a station can have more surround than another, considering both are getting the same sat feed. Someone has mucked with the levels of the two surround channels (one sat feed stereo pair).

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On FOX, the Baltimore affiliate looks sharper than the DC O&O, but DC has fuller sound.
Now this really doesn't make any sense. Both stations air the exact same audio. Neither station can get at the video, or the audio. The feed goes from the IRD, thru the splicer, out to the transmitter. The Fox network controls the path from their master control room in L.A. to the station's transmitter. The audio AC3 stream is done in LA and directly applied to the station's transmitter.

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Finally, I have to say that AQ and PQ deficiencies don’t bother me that much anymore, because about the only things I still watch on broadcast, or even basic cable, are news, the NFL, and specials like the Grammys and Oscars. With snipes, hashtags, network bugs, station bugs, weather bugs, weather crawls, time, temperature, wind chill, school closings, lottery numbers, and other garbage superimposed regularly over the programming, why worry about AQ and PQ? Channel 9 actually threw a crawl on top the Grammys at one point that said “WIN $5000 RIGHT NOW GO TO THE WUSA9 MOBILE APP NOW”.
I've been screaming about screen clutter and the lack of program material (too many commercials and promos) for ages. That is why I do not get my programming from OTA either (I do not have cable or DBS). I only watch local news, Nightline and sometimes 20/20. I watched the Grammys via the backup sat feed from L.A. No local crap to deal with. Actually, I watched the local station and captured the sat feed. Any performances I wanted to keep (there were three), were from the sat feed. No bugs, no snipes and no artifacts.

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post #13992 of 14001 Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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30.1-30.6 are out here in College Park. When I rescanned, the tuner did halt at UHF 24 for about a minute before moving on with no channels found, which is indicative of a signal that is detected but too weak to decode.
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post #13993 of 14001 Old Yesterday, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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30.1-30.6 are out here in College Park. When I rescanned, the tuner did halt at UHF 24 for about a minute before moving on with no channels found, which is indicative of a signal that is detected but too weak to decode.
Now working.
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post #13994 of 14001 Old Today, 08:53 AM
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Now working.
AND the clock is now correct!
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post #13995 of 14001 Old Today, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Any one else notice that MHz (30.1-30.6) is sending out the wrong time...? It's now roughly 1.5 hrs fast...
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30.7-30.12 are time synchronized with 30.1-30-6 and are similarly mistimed.

The clock settings are pretty shabby all around:
11.1 WBAL: + 2 to 3 minutes
14.1 WFDC: + 9 minutes (they are a serial offender)
23.1 WDDN is in a time warp. Date: 1980/02/15, daily time off by nearly six hours
25.1 WZDC: - (minus) 3 minutes
45.1 WBFF: + 2 minutes
54.1 WNUV: + 2 minutes
58.1 WIAV: + 7 minutes
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AND the clock is now correct!

Back in the late 1950s, my father had a once-a-week job of winding the church tower clock across the street. They used to use a clever "escape mechanism" that assured a constant release of stored energy that kept that clock more accurate than these PSIP(?) times are. Of course, I used to get more kick out of my four barrel carburator back then than I do out of my fuel injector now, too. Ah, the good old days.

WBAL: + 2 to 3 minutes Now accurate
14.1 WFDC: + 9 minutes (they are a serial offender) Now +14 min
23.1 WDDN is in a time warp. Date: 1980/02/15, daily time off by nearly six hours
Keeping pace but still 25 years behind
25.1 WZDC: - (minus) 3 minutes Now (minus) 6
45.1 WBFF: + 2 minutes Now +3
54.1 WNUV: + 2 minutes Now+ 3
58.1 WIAV: + 7 minutes No change

Last edited by AntAltMike; Today at 04:21 PM.
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post #13996 of 14001 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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I'm using a very liberal definition of 'correct' , i.e., +/- 15 minutes.
Let's see what happens come Daylight Savings Time.
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post #13997 of 14001 Unread Today, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Was 1980 a leap year? I think WDDN is going to lose another day at the end of this month.

Back in 2001 and 2002, I used to do some repair work for InnRoomVideo, a hotel PPV movie provider. They had COBOL software that couldn't overcome the Y2K problem, so they simply set their system clock back to some year in the 1900s when the days and dates were synchronized with the current year. Maybe WDDN is using COBOL!
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post #13998 of 14001 Unread Today, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a very liberal definition of 'correct' , i.e., +/- 15 minutes.
WNVC 30.1-30.6 is now 1.5 minutes fast, whereas WNVT 30-7-30.12 is just ten seconds fast.
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post #13999 of 14001 Unread Today, 04:52 PM
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WNVC 30.1-30.6 is now 1.5 minutes fast, whereas WNVT 30-7-30.12 is just ten seconds fast.
That's pretty good. Tempted to turn off the iView on 30.1 tonight and see if my timed recordings go off on schedule.
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post #14000 of 14001 Unread Today, 05:09 PM
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23.1 WDDN is in a time warp. Date: 1980/02/15, daily time off by nearly six hours Keeping pace but still 25 years behind
Must be another time warp. I counted on my fingers and toes (TWICE!) and came up with 35 years ... and 5 toes left.
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post #14001 of 14001 Unread Today, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Must be another time warp. I counted on my fingers and toes (TWICE!) and came up with 35 years ... and 5 toes left.
I was an extra for the movie, Deliverance.
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