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post #91 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 08:07 AM
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Well I got an 811 DISH receiver this morning.
I'm pretty UNhappy with its performance.
The internal scaling of SD is sub-par
(actually it's possible that its on par and the scaler
in my previous HD tuner was just that much better
than average... anyway it performs worse than my
previous tuner in that department.)
Also the DVI output is awful. The whole picture is
shifted about 5% to the right, and there are sparklies
that are definitely coming out of that box. The DVI
cable itself does not introduce sparklies when connected
to my other DVI devices. Switching over to the component
outs of the 811 seemed to tame the worst of the problems
with PQ. It will be nice to have my satellite channels and
OTA channels consolidated to one program guide, and the
OTA module itself seems to be pretty good (I'm picking KNLC
now, which was too weak for my other box to lock on to,
and the signal strength percentages for all my other OTA
channels are a lot higher.)
But still, despite the couple bright spots, overall I'm unhappy
with the 811.
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post #92 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Wyse Guy,

You should definitely do a thorough check for burn in, as the Pioneers and the RCAs are very, very susceptible to this. I would be concerned about buying an open box for that reason.

The first time I calibrated one of these panels I saw this very clearly. It takes me about 45 minutes to get all of my equipment set up. One of the last things I did in that process on my first Pioneer plasma was to connect my HD signal generator, which defaults to the SMPTE color bar pattern when it powers up. Once the generator was in place, I took care of a couple of other set-up issues and then switched from the color bars to a grayscale window pattern. Although the color bars had been onscreen for no more than 10 minutes, they were clearly visible after switching to grayscale window. They eventually faded completely, but only after about 4 hours. I've also seen ghosts of the service menu icons after switching back into user mode. I believe that any static image left onscreen more than an hour would probably cause irreversible damage.

What's a little odd about the Pioneer/RCA plasmas is that the default setting for the user contrast control is the midpoint. Usually the manufacturers set contrast at the top level, and usually moving it back to or nominally below the midpoint is a more or less a safe level. But the Pioneer/RCAs are actually cranking out right around 80 footlamberts of light with the contrast at the center level. The optimal light level for a plasma is 24 to 28 fL.

I would suggest that you turn your contrast down to around 25%. I haven't actually determined what the correct level should be from the user side, as I always make these sort of adjustments in the service menu, leaving all the user controls at the center points. But 25% should be in the right general neighborhood...

OK -- to test your set for burn-in, you should get a copy of AVIA or Video Essentials and put up a 100 IRE field (full screen), not a 100 IRE window. Then do the same with a 10 IRE field. Either of these fields should show whether there is any burn-in. To be completely thorough it would also be worth putting up separate red, blue and green fields as this will show whether a particular color was overworked with a static image such as a menu, screen crawler background, or screen bug where one color was predominant.

I hope that you find that your plasma is free from burn-in. Assuming that's the case, you'll still need to be extremely conscientious about not leaving static images on this panel in future.

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post #93 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 08:37 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by zvogt
Rather than retype the info here, I'll just provide this link to the bad news about my LCoS.


Doug, I'll send you a PM to discuss what this may or may not mean about your visit.

Wow, that's a serious bummer. I'm sorry to hear about that.

So are you thinking about replacing it with something else? I'm coming up on 9 months with my Samsung HLM617W DLP and it's been awesome, especially after getting the firmware upgraded and the DVD input ISF calibrated. If you want a fixed pixel display, you might consider one yourself.

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post #94 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 12:22 PM
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zvogt,

I fully agree with you. I'm extremely unhappy with my 811 that I removed it and put my 6000 back until future software versions fix the current issues.

My biggest issue was actually OTA reception. On my 6000, I had pretty much everything between 90%-100% except for FOX which was 80%, KNLC 70% and WRBU 65%. Once I installed the 811, I lost Fox completely where the signal dropped to 49% and never locks in place. All other channels dropped by 10-15%.

Other issues include:
1 - DVI, Component, S-Video outputs are very dark
2 - Loss of stretch mode. 6000 has 5 different stretch modes by pushing the * key. 811 currently supports normal & zoom modes only.
3 - Lousy performance on SD channels (DVI, Component & S-Video)
4 - Audio glitches when switching between OTA, SD & HD channels. This only happens if the 811 is set to DD/PCM and using the Optical Toslink cable
5 - Jittery picture on local OTA SD channels, not Digital or HD.
6 - Problems with 480i SD digital signal. Namely FOX. This could also be a PSIP issue.
7 - Remote is UHF only although you can use your 6000 remote



Quote:


Originally posted by zvogt
Well I got an 811 DISH receiver this morning.
I'm pretty UNhappy with its performance.
The internal scaling of SD is sub-par
(actually it's possible that its on par and the scaler
in my previous HD tuner was just that much better
than average... anyway it performs worse than my
previous tuner in that department.)
Also the DVI output is awful. The whole picture is
shifted about 5% to the right, and there are sparklies
that are definitely coming out of that box. The DVI
cable itself does not introduce sparklies when connected
to my other DVI devices. Switching over to the component
outs of the 811 seemed to tame the worst of the problems
with PQ. It will be nice to have my satellite channels and
OTA channels consolidated to one program guide, and the
OTA module itself seems to be pretty good (I'm picking KNLC
now, which was too weak for my other box to lock on to,
and the signal strength percentages for all my other OTA
channels are a lot higher.)
But still, despite the couple bright spots, overall I'm unhappy
with the 811.

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post #95 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 12:49 PM
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Droptheremote,
Thanks for your advice and suggestions.
Following your advice, I braved the snow and crowds and drove to Borders Books where I purchased a DVE disk. After going through the calibration exercises, I feel much better about my purchase. I also tried the IRE Fields as you suggested. I could find no burn-in.
Next step... Convince the wife that I NEED HD DirecTV. I'll let you know how that goes.
Thanks for everything!

Wyse Guy
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post #96 of 19496 Old 12-13-2003, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Wyse Guy,

Glad you found that info helpful.

Send me a private message or eMail if you have any other questions about the RCA.

Doug

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post #97 of 19496 Old 12-14-2003, 06:00 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Phoenician
Once I installed the 811, I lost Fox completely where the signal dropped to 49% and never locks in place.

Can we say bug? The 811 locks to exactly 49% for me as well.

The funny thing is that my Hitachi now has an internal tuner. It tunes Fox perfectly off the antenna feed, but can't get KPLR at all. Just goes to show this stuff is still pretty flaky - no perfect solution.

My biggest complaint with the 811 (above the no stretch modes) is that it is NOTHING more than a 6000 with a DVI output and colored guides. I know everyone said thats what it would be, but I was really surprised that the menu system and the onscreen guides were not updated to match the rest of the receivers. I got a 322 as well, and it is extremely nice - obviously the software development for the HD receivers is one group and the SD receivers is another - and they don't share (or even look at each others receivers).

Oh well - hopefully it will get updates... soon.

Chris

Hmmm....
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post #98 of 19496 Old 12-14-2003, 11:59 AM
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I'm sorry to hear the feedback on the 811. I was looking forward to it over the 6000 because of the DVI hookup. I'd like to try some HD signals on my Samsung DLP but I don't know. Do you guys think I ought to hold off on getting the 811?

Doug, I tried Skywalker Communications Saturday but they're not open on the weekend. I'll have to try them tommorrow.

Alan
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post #99 of 19496 Old 12-14-2003, 12:13 PM
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I'm glad I oped for a 6000 for $125 a few weeks ago, doesn;t sound like the 811 is worth the extra cash. I hope the 921 works better than the 811.
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post #100 of 19496 Old 12-14-2003, 09:49 PM
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I think once they update the software a few revisions, the 811 will be a very good receiver. There are just too many bugs and notice how the word "LAB" exists in the software version. That tell us the software is still in beta testing.

Now if you don't have an existing 6000 receiver, you can't really resist the $149 or $199 price depending on your account status with Dish. In time, the software bugs will be worked out to make it a pretty nice buy.


Quote:


Originally posted by MyMonyPit
I'm sorry to hear the feedback on the 811. I was looking forward to it over the 6000 because of the DVI hookup. I'd like to try some HD signals on my Samsung DLP but I don't know. Do you guys think I ought to hold off on getting the 811?

Doug, I tried Skywalker Communications Saturday but they're not open on the weekend. I'll have to try them tommorrow.

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post #101 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 07:32 AM
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zvogt,
What brand/model HD rec'r were you using before the 811 (since you commented that it had a better scalar)?

Phoenician,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to 6000 and any other HD rec'r you have used)?

BudShark,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to any other HD rec'r you have used)?


Thanks for the details you have already provided!
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post #102 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 07:37 AM
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My previous tuner was the Samsung SIR T-165.
(The same model Chris has for sale... assuming it hasn't yet been sold.)
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post #103 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 07:54 AM
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Gateway had an ad this Sunday for dishnetwork, I read the ad a couple of times and for $49.99 which you will receive a credit for the same amount on you first bill, you can get either a regular receiver, 811 receiver or the DVR dish an installation. So you can now get Dish Hd for $50!
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post #104 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 08:41 AM
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I need some help from the city dwellers...Charter has said that my channel lineup will change on Wed. Based on experience, does anyone know how long after that it will be before I can order HD?
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post #105 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 08:41 AM
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This has been the normal DISH deal for new subscribers
for a long long time. Up to three rooms free, and FOUR credits.
(The first for your original $49.99, and three more for your first
three months of programming.) And of course the deal requires
a 12 month commitment to programming.
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post #106 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 08:48 AM
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zvogt, I did not know this, I thought the deal was always just for a regular receiver had I know this included the HD receiver I might have switched long ago.

Tcfila, where did you get this info...I received the channel card lineup around Aug stating the channels would change, an installer told me that as soon as the channel lineup changes then HD service should be available. Don't go by what the CSR says, they know nothing.
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post #107 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 08:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tcfila
I need some help from the city dwellers...Charter has said that my channel lineup will change on Wed. Based on experience, does anyone know how long after that it will be before I can order HD?

Does that mean that us current Charter HD customers MIGHT get a couple new channels??

ok, ok, im probably dreaming...
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post #108 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 09:31 AM
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This morning on my Charter box was a little red light. It meant they sent me a message. I was thinking, maybe they are announcing new HD channels. That was wishful thinking. One message was about high speed internet, and the other message was about some new interactive feature. I have emailed Charter about additional HD channels, and I never get a response.
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post #109 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 10:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by STL
BudShark,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to any other HD rec'r you have used)?


By scaler you are probably referring to how SD channels look? Haven't really looked at them due to the problem of no stretch modes.

I've used a T165, Charter's Moto5100, Hitachi internal tuner, and a Dish 6000.

The speed of the 811 matches the T165 and Hitachi in side to side comparison. Considering the 165 beat the 6000 hands down, that should give you some idea.
If they would fix the FOX issues, the 811 OTA reception would be good.

***RUMOR*** is that the first of several updates will be coming down tonight for the 811. This will fix the stretch modes and supposed to provide PSIP channel information. I'll let you know how it looks and works IF it does come down.

I will say that last night was my first ESPNHD football game (due to Charter not carrying ESPN and my Hitachi set breaking) - Looked fantastic. Very happy with ESPNHD quality on Dish.

Chris

Hmmm....
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post #110 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 11:27 AM
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I have a question about the Motorola 5100 that comes from charter. I have a digital cable going from the box to the receiver. On the receiver I have selected auto as my signal selection. Now the sounds goes way up on some channels and goes down on the digital channels. Is there anyway I can correct his sound problem without constantly turning the volume up and down? Is there anything such as bass management on the receiver? I know you guys will have the answer. Whoever gives the right answer might get some Christmas cookies from my wife since this is driving her crazy.

StLouG
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post #111 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 12:12 PM
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STLouG,

I see the same issue - for example: HD channels are generally lower in volume that normal cable channels. I will scour my 5100 manual to see if there is a solution.
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post #112 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 01:17 PM
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As of today, I think both the 6000 and 811 have a similar "scalar" when it comes to SD Channels. It's difficult to compare since the strech mode feature does not work on the 811 and the 811 still displays a darker picture.

I also have a MyHD 120 HTPC Card and the OTA HD reception on it is fantastic, never ever had an issue with it. I also use the ATSC HD tuner built into my Hitachi 57", works really well too.

Quote:


Originally posted by STL

Phoenician,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to 6000 and any other HD rec'r you have used)?

Thanks for the details you have already provided!

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post #113 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 01:53 PM
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Surprised I haven't seen a reply to previous post about WB-11 broadcasting a blank screen. I show a strong signal both on the 26 aka 11-1 and on 75 but both show just a blank screen.

I called KPLR this afternoon and the operator said that I was the 5th person to call with the same problem. She said let me try to get an engineer and she put me on hold. When she came back she said the engineer is unable to come to the phone but says they are broadcasting a strong HD signal and it must be our equipment. He recommends trying to tune into 26.

I told the operator that I have also seen the same complaint in the AVS forum and she gave me someones voice mail to leave a disruption.

Help!

Ron
Using MyHD100
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post #114 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 02:00 PM
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I've had the same problem, but it perfectly coincided with my acquisition
of my DISH 811, so I blamed my equipment. I'll have to reconnect my
T165, and see if it has problems. Obviously SOMETHING is going on with KPLR,
since we're all seeing two separate streams (one mapped to 11-1, and one
mapped to 75-1... even my T165 did that.)
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post #115 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 04:25 PM
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On my Dish 6000, I receive strong signal on 11-1, but a black screen and no audio. 75-1 is unavailable. On my Hughes E-86, same thing. However, on my Samsung TS-160, I receive a strong signal on 11-1 ALONG WITH VIDEO AND AUDIO. I am in Montgomery City, MO, about 85 mi as the crow flies to the transmit towers.

Alan

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post #116 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Count me among those not receiving KPLR-DT. I have PSIP off and a recent rescan failed to pick up the station and tuning it manually gets me nothing.

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post #117 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 04:35 PM
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No problem here receiving KPLR-DT in U. City with a SIR-TS160.

In fact, everything is strong, except for WRBU-DT which I never get at all.

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post #118 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Just rescanned in the hopes of snagging KPLR-DT, but no go.

I have a DTC-100. I have seen this happen before when stations decide to add PSIP information. Some PSIP packages are incompatible with some ATSC receivers.

I'm not saying this is definitely the problem, but it's possible...

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post #119 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 06:44 PM
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@StLouG,
When I had Charter, I had the same problem, this was 2 years ago with their normal digital receiver. I also had a problem with several channels volume meandering up and down throughout programming(not change with commercials, changing during show). This is one of the many reasons I will never give Charter another penny.

@ everyone with KPLR issues.
No problems with picture or audio on my TUHDS-20. 11-1 comes in perfectly, 75-1 comes in with channel info, but no picture or sound. IIRC, in the lobby, where they monitor on air HD signal, they have a T-160. Which would be why THEY don't see any problems (if everybodies probs occur with other STBs). I know the chief engineer lurks here to see if they are having problems, so either it's on their list to fix, or he hasn't lurked in a while.
Dug
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post #120 of 19496 Old 12-15-2003, 06:44 PM
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Hey Guys,

I posted before that I moved down to Houston, so I haven't been following the St. Louis threads. But, a friend of mine just picked up a hdtv, and he was wondering about espn-hd on charter? Has anybody heard any rumors as to when that might become available?

Thanks!
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