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post #1 of 19496 Old 12-02-2003, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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St Louis Tower Maps

For anyone doing the initial install of an OTA antenna, or anyone looking to fine-tune the positioning of their existing antenna, the attached ZIP files at the end of this message contain maps showing the tower location for each digital station in St. Louis. Pick the ZIP file(s) most appropriate to your location, using downtown St. Louis as your reference point.

Note that there are three digital television towers that are clustered closely together -- KDNL, KPLR and KSDK (going from north to south). The limitations of the mapping software I used prevented me from making the labels visible for all three of these towers. However, there are flags indicating each of these towers, and all other towers and labels should be readable.

If you have any questions on the tower maps, feel free to send me a private message...

Your Right to Erect an Antenna and/or Satellite Dish

As more and more consumers purchase high-definition displays, there's increasing interest in arranging for receipt of HD programming via an over-the-air antenna or through a satellite dish.

Unfortunately with the proliferation of cable television in the 1980s and 1990s, many communities, property developers and homeowner/condo owner associations tried to undo the visual blight of antennas (and later, satellite dishes) from their local skylines. While these laws, rules or convenants were well-intended -- after all, it would be difficult to argue for the cosmetic benefits of a yagi antenna -- these actions are not legally enforceable.

The FCC has ruled -- with only a few very narrow exceptions -- that you have the right to receive over-the-air television and radio broadcasts and as a result you have a right to erect an antenna to receive these signals. This ruling also encompasses the erection of small satellite dishes.

Even if you have previously signed a lease or homeower association convenant that requires you to forego the right to erect an antenna or satellite dishes, the FCC has ruled that these types of provisions are unenforceable.

In general, there are only a few notable exceptions to this rule:

* First, the location of the antenna or dish must be an "exclusive use" area. As a homeowner or condominium owner, this would mean any part of the property over which you have control. For renters, this would also apply to balconies or patios that are intended solely for your use. The sort of rental property area that would not be covered would be general use areas, such as common passageways or rooftop areas that are clearly intended for the shared use of all residents.

* Second, the antenna or dish cannot be erected in areas that would create a legitimate safety issue, for example one that is dangling off a balcony or placed too close to electrical wiring.

* Third, there may be restrictions if you are located in a designated historical (or prehistorical) district, in which case a permit may be required.

The other major limitation is that these devices cannot exceed 1 meter (39.37 inches) in diameter.

The burden of proof in contesting your right to mount a dish and/or antenna rests with the landlord, homeowner association, city council, etc. Strictly speaking, you do not need to seek prior permission or provide prior notice, so long as the device is to be situated in an area under your control and there is no obvious safety issue.

However, before taking on the expense and effort of such an installation, you should read and review in its entirety the following summary of the FCC ruling on consumer rights to mount over-the-air devices:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Also, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association recently launched an initiative to help installers and satellite TV viewers protect their right to install satellite dishes. The SBCA online forum allows individuals to submit to the association any problems from governmental and non-governmental entities (such as homeowner's associations) concerning their right to install outdoor reception equipment.

The SBCA form can be accessed at: http://www.sbca.com/otard/default.htm


Feedback to St. Louis Stations

Is there something that you're unhappy about concerning the digital broadcasts by local St. Louis stations?

Weird-looking presentation of standard-definition programming? Multiple channel bugs cluttering up those beautiful images? Somebody at the station forgot to "flip the switch" before or during the middle of your favorite HD program?

Or better yet, maybe you'd just like to send your thanks and encouragement to your favorite local station for the effort they've made so far in providing us with more and better HD programming. The cost and effort in providing digital and HD programming is significant, and it's important for the station owners and management to know that we're watching.

Well, here's the place where you can find the online addresses where you can send your comments and feedback.


KTVI Channel 2 contact:
ktvitech@fox2ktvi.com

Don Rockwell (tech contact)
(314) 644-7425

KMOV Channel 4 contact:
programs@kmov.com
WNichol@kmov.com

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
Dave Hummert (chief engineer)
dhummert@ksdk.gannett.com

Lynn Beall (station manager)
lbeall@ksdk.gannett.com

KETC Channel 9 contact:
letters@ketc.org

KPLR Channel 11 contact:
whatson@wb11tv.com
technical@wb11tv.com

KDNL Channel 30 contact:
jwright@kdnl.sbgnet.com

WRBU Channel 46 contact:
[no email available & no website]

Fox Sports Midwest:
midwest@foxsports.net

Feedback to Charter Communications

Joseph Stackhouse
Senior Vice President, Customer Operations
Charter Communications
12405 Powerscourt Drive
St. Louis, MO 63131
Phone: (314) 965-0555


 

Stl TV Towers - MO Views.zip 420.97265625k . file

 

Stl TV Towers - IL Views.zip 425.0537109375k . file

 

Stl TV Towers - Two-State View.zip 268.2890625k . file

Doug


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post #2 of 19496 Old 12-02-2003, 06:47 AM
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Anyone have any suggestions for a widescreen HDTV that is around 40 inches or less? I have my 51 Toshiba but need something for a cabinet upstairs....
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post #3 of 19496 Old 12-02-2003, 07:41 AM
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The Loewe TVs are awesome. We're planning to buy the Loewe Aventos 30" widescreen for the bedroom. They do have a direct view in 38".

You can see them over at Music For Pleasure on Big Bend. I've bought tons of stuff from them, including my Arcam/Dynaudio surround system. I recommend this place highly. They also have the Sammy DLPs.

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post #4 of 19496 Old 12-02-2003, 08:20 AM
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Hello all.
I'm Derek.
Just joined the forum. I been reading all the info here lately, and hope to be part of the local HDTV group soon.
I have been thinking about getting a Sony KF50WE610 and upgrading my Dishnetwork to HD.
Thanks for all the great info and i'll be checking in now and then.
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post #5 of 19496 Old 12-02-2003, 11:48 AM
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I can't wait to see the Illini in HD tonight. Hopefully, they pound UNC like last year.

Also, I'd like to mention that I've moved out of the St. Louis area. I didn't post a whole lot on this forum, but I read it quite often. Anyway, I'm down in Houston now, and I thought I'd post some info on how hd is down here.

I have TWC and get the inhd channels, discovery, as well as all the locals in HD through digital cable. The network affliates down here don't crop and zoom any of the upconvert stuff on the HD channels, which is great. The CBS HD football games look horrible, though, through digital cables. The pixelation is very, very apparent with any motion. MNF just blows it away. And, back home in StL I always thought CBS was so much better. I wonder if TWC is compressing the CBS feed, I haven't put up an antenna, yet, to compare, so I can't really say. Unfortunately, TWC doesn't have espn-hd, so I'll need to put up my dish for that. But, I had planned on doing that anyway for Rams games, Cards games, and Illini basketball.
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post #6 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 01:12 PM
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So any other DISH 811s scheduled for instalation in the STL area in the near term?
I ordered mine this morning, they offered to install on the 8th, but I asked
if I could push it back to a Saturday install instead. (Although I don't know
what in the world there is to "install", it's not like I'm going to let the guy touch
my other equipment. It's just a box for cryin' out loud. But even after being
insistent, they would NOT just ship me the box. They said THEY had to install it.
)
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post #7 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 03:17 PM
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Please tell us about the new 811 once you get it installed. I have a DTC-100 now and am seriously thinking about ditching it and going to E*. Specifically I am curious if the HD tuner is better in the 811, and how well the 811 does upconverting SD material.

BTW, I am having all kinds of trouble getting 35 and was wondering if anyone here might know why. With me located in St. Peters, the 35 tower should be in between the 31 and 56 towers (which both come in fine) so it doesn't make sense that I'm having so much trouble with 35. I have RS 80" yagi antenna mounted in the attic and pointed at roughly 140degrees. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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post #8 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 04:07 PM
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Yes. I called this morning and they scheduled me for an install the morning of 12/8. I requested the install changed to 12/9 so I can check out Charlie Chat on Monday night and make sure I'm not missing out on anything else (921) and have the opportunity to cancel.

About the installation: Here's how I look at it even though I won't let Bubba touch any of my stuff. If you have DishPro LNBs and a 3/4 Switch, there's really nothing to install. If you want, you can "hide" your existing 3/4 Switch and have the installer install or give you another one. You can keep the second one as a spare or sell on eBay.

--Phoenician


Quote:


Originally posted by zvogt
So any other DISH 811s scheduled for instalation in the STL area in the near term?
I ordered mine this morning, they offered to install on the 8th, but I asked
if I could push it back to a Saturday install instead. (Although I don't know
what in the world there is to "install", it's not like I'm going to let the guy touch
my other equipment. It's just a box for cryin' out loud. But even after being
insistent, they would NOT just ship me the box. They said THEY had to install it.
)

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post #9 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 04:15 PM
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From what we've heard from Beta testers, the 811 has a much better tuner that deals well with multipath issues. It also has the ability to output HD & SD simultaneously.

About your troubles with 35, I would guess it is a multipath problem. It seems a lot of people have been having problems when trees lost their leaves. You would think the signal would be better but it appears digital signal might be deflecting off tree branches and creating multipath issues mostly with 480i/p and 1080i signals. 720p signals don't seem as vulnerable.

--Phoenician

Quote:


Originally posted by STL
Please tell us about the new 811 once you get it installed. I have a DTC-100 now and am seriously thinking about ditching it and going to E*. Specifically I am curious if the HD tuner is better in the 811, and how well the 811 does upconverting SD material.

BTW, I am having all kinds of trouble getting 35 and was wondering if anyone here might know why. With me located in St. Peters, the 35 tower should be in between the 31 and 56 towers (which both come in fine) so it doesn't make sense that I'm having so much trouble with 35. I have RS 80" yagi antenna mounted in the attic and pointed at roughly 140degrees. Any ideas would be appreciated.

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post #10 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 08:15 PM
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Anyone able to get the digital Ubn 46-1 station, I get a good signal on the regular ota.

Fitz
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post #11 of 19496 Old 12-03-2003, 10:14 PM
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I'm new to this forum but I have reviewed the last few months of the St. Louis HDTV thread. I have just purchased a HIT 57s500 rptv. Currently just have a dvd connected. Have no cable or dish. Based on my research I have decided to get Dishnetwork 811, HD package and OTA antenna. I spoke to a local Dish dealer and they insisted that I could get local channels in HD off of the satellite. I made sure that he knew I was referring to HD not just digital but he said that I just needed to get a second dish. I then askedhim about just getting an antenna to get local HD programming and he said that I could do it that way also. THis doesn't jive with my understanding of the current state of things in HD. Am I correct in believing that local HD is only available OTA? I am not considering cable as a solution at all but that is a different story.

Anyway, assuming I am correct on the Local HD issue I question this particular dealers ability to install and align a new dish and antenna solution for me. THe dealer has been in business for a while and I thought they would be reliable. Can anyone recommend a reliable dealer that can install Dish network and a OTA antenna?
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post #12 of 19496 Old 12-04-2003, 03:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Geo_Scouter
Anyway, assuming I am correct on the Local HD issue I question this particular dealers ability to install and align a new dish and antenna solution for me. THe dealer has been in business for a while and I thought they would be reliable. Can anyone recommend a reliable dealer that can install Dish network and a OTA antenna?

I've used Brian Morris, Imagine Multimedia twice (condo, then new house) to install DirecTV dish and OTA antenna, and have been very happy. He persisted until everything was working correctly, returning several times to tweak/improve the setup until it was right.

I don't know if he handles Dish Net, but you can ask.

Imagine Multimedia, 314-503-3033

Tell him Dean sent you.

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post #13 of 19496 Old 12-04-2003, 11:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Phoenician
About your troubles with 35, I would guess it is a multipath problem. It seems a lot of people have been having problems when trees lost their leaves. You would think the signal would be better but it appears digital signal might be deflecting off tree branches and creating multipath issues mostly with 480i/p and 1080i signals. 720p signals don't seem as vulnerable.

Just to clarify, my problem was there before the trees lost their leaves.

Also, I heard one big difference between the 811 and old 6000 is that the 811 supports HDCP (and can be commanded to downrez the component outputs) whereas the 6000 doesn't.
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post #14 of 19496 Old 12-04-2003, 11:44 AM
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I have a question about the local UPN her in St Louis. I know they are a digital broadcast, at least my receiver flashes "digital sound" ballon. Now the ?. Do they ever broadcast HD? Seems every time I tune in my receiver show the program as SD.

Does anyone have the full story on this?

Thanks.

"Screaming!?!? A great many dramatic situations begin with screaming!"
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post #15 of 19496 Old 12-04-2003, 01:33 PM
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The local UPN is strictly SD. I had trouble pulling in their signal before my Mits was upgraded to the Promise Module which apparently was a lot better than the Mits STB I was using. I believe that several people including myself have tried to urge them to handle HD, but no answer.
Realistically, with only two programs from UPN in HD it probably isn't cost effective for KRBU to spend the money for HD equipment.

Walt Schwartz
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post #16 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 07:07 AM
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post #17 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 07:32 AM
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zvogt,

My 811 install is scheduled for Saturday AM, and I haven't gotten the dreaded cancellation call yet.

Cheers,

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post #18 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 07:37 AM
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Good timing on the install.
We'll get a chance to see your freshly installed 811
tomorrow afternoon.
Have you signed up for E*'s highdef offerings?
Even if you haven't, there are things I'm interested
in seeing, such as the program guide.
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post #19 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 08:52 AM
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zvogt,

Right now I'm on edge. The projector is supposed to ship to me today for delivery overnight.

If anyone has a projector and can bring it along easily, it might not be a bad idea as a CYA.

If mine gets in, it'll be installed. I'll have an answer mid-afternoon confirming shipping.

In a worst case scenario, I'll drag the 6000 downstairs.

For sources I will have:
Denon DV-5900 for SACD + DVD
Meridian 598DP for DVD-Audio + DVD
JVC HM-D3000U for D-VHS (5 movies should be here today)
Dish 6000 or 811

The one thing I don't have (or want) is an HTPC. I spend too much of my professional life with them, and I want to be away from them in my fun time

Cheers,

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post #20 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 09:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by John Kotches
Right now I'm on edge. The projector is supposed to ship to me today for delivery overnight.

Goodness, you are cutting it close, aren't ya?
I don't think I'd even WANT to show off my stuff when it was that new.
I'd want a chance to enjoy it all by myself for a few weeks first.
Give myself a chance to tweak out all the bugs.

Oh well, too late to back out now
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post #21 of 19496 Old 12-05-2003, 09:32 PM
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z,


Mr. Donigan is coming through with his new X1.

I hadn't intended to cut it this close, but... I was stupid in waiting on Optoma for the "in two weeks" H76.

Had I known a month ago, I'd be in a much better position now, but life goes on.

Cheers,

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post #22 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 09:04 AM
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Doug and everyone else that attended,

Thanks for showing up

It was my pleasure to host, and out of all the madness, I got a catchy and fun name for the HT Room. Somehow the "Granite City Cave Theater" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

CHeers,

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post #23 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 09:10 AM
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First of all, Huge thanks to John Kotches!

The guy has an excellent setup, very professional looking, and was a gracious host. Well timed breaks, plenty of sources and materials, and good munchies round up a very well done Get Together.

Got to meet several other St. Louisans HT users, very diverse group with diverse set of equipments as well . My personal highlight of yesterday was Moulin Rouge on DVHS - I've never seen anything better looking - and this is on an uncalibrated X1 to boot. Thanks John for giving me the chance to see something that good.

Ciao.
Muljadi Budiman
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post #24 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 03:56 PM
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I think the secret star is John Donigan, who brought his literally brand new X1 over to save the day! Kudos (and apologies) to John who I overlooked in my earlier thank you!

I understand what the buzz over the X1 is. When you consider the price tag, it's an unbelivably good entry to the world of FPTV.

My only goal was accomplished, which is to dispel the myth that a quality HT reproduction system isn't capable of reproducing music well

BTW, something to be pointed out is that anyone in the area willing should host a G2G. There is no need to be concerned about "how good" anyone's system is. This is a hobby first and foremost, and we shouldn't lose sight of this. Besides, my HT is my mid-life crisis -- instead of buying a sports car and having a fling with a woman 18 years younger than myself I'm doing this

Cheers,

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post #25 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 05:58 PM
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It was a lot of fun and was great to meet and speak with fellow enthusiasts. The X1 is definetely the bang for buck king and a great entry level projector. It used to be entry level was $2500 or over with crappy internal scalers needing HTPC pixel mapping and all kinds of fun black out mods and such. No longer. I would definetely steer someone with HDTV in mind to a higher resolution PJ if within their budget, but for DVD and SD, it does a very admirable job. It looks surprisingly good with HD, but you definetely start to see the limitations of the native 800x600 resolution though. I find the ever so slight LCD defocus trick helps with screen door on this pj (I told 2 friends to buy them so have played with it a bit). It was very cool of him to bring it for everyone to enjoy. Hope my comments are not taken in a negative way.

The audio was excellent (as I expected), and the Meridian tri-processing was sweet. I am working on my wife to "permit me" to do one after the holidays. We shall see.

Thanks again John!

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post #26 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 06:13 PM
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Hi all,
I am new to the world of HDTV. I just got an HDTV receiver and this antenna from RadioShack. The only local channels I am not able to get in are FOX and PBS. FOX's signal drops off every few seconds and PBS isn't coming in at all.

Anyone else have trouble getting a signal from these channels? I live in Shrewsbury (63119) and I'd prefer stick with an indoor antenna. Antennaweb says that FOX and PBS would need a small multi-directional antenna from my house.

Right now I have a Samsung T351 receiver and will be going to an 811 in the next couple weeks.

Can't wat for MNF!
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post #27 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 06:28 PM
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BTW, this is not the meet area, but seems to be the local hangout, so I would very humbly suggest a meet maybe every quarter at most. This assumes we have a limited number of willing or able hosts hence limited number of meets available, and ensures people do not get burned out too fast or end up in trouble with the significant other (I am on short leash and kitchen passes are not a weekly handout).

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post #28 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 06:40 PM
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slusig,

I had the triple bow tie indoor setup with no amplifier, and could not pull anything (big surprise). This antenna of yours seems to be powered, but I have my doubts about indoor reception. If you are missing PBS and Fox only, maybe it is your location. Did you check antennaweb.org for your address relative to the towers? I assume you move the antenna around and just can't grab it.

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post #29 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 06:54 PM
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Wish I could have been at the latest meeting but I am in and out of town this month. I head to Chicago for Crestron tomorrow. Right now I am planning on having a get together at the Chesterfield Sound Room in February, probably a week or two after the Super Bowl. Any time prior to that just isn't practical for us between the holidays and the Rams playing well!
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post #30 of 19496 Old 12-07-2003, 09:17 PM
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SLUSIG, If anything you are too close to the towers and the signals may be going overhead. I live in Rock Hill (63144) and had to add to an outdoor antenna because the KMOV signal was going just above my antenna. I think you will have to forget an indoor antenna if you want all stations.

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