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post #541 of 12144 Old 06-17-2007, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

Specifically, there has been a dramatic change in my reception of HD OTA CBS, which started maybe 3 months ago, but I have no clue as to how to account for it.

First, here are my viewership details:

* Glen Ellyn (western suburbs due west, approx. 35 miles outside of downtown Chicago).
* Second floor of a two floor apartment complex.
* Fairly unobstructed view between here and the city (as far as my eyes can see).
* I'm hooked up to the roof antenna.
* I don't have any idea what kind/quality of antenna it is.
* 15' RF/coax cable from wall receptacle, and probably another 25' to actual antenna.
* OTA delivered to me via Tivo 3 HD DVR, 7-8 months in use.
* Signal strength as reported by my Tivo gives all local HD channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS-11, CW, FOX) typical readings starting at 88, mostly low to mid 90's.


But sometime in the last few months, I noticed that CBS HD was coming in MUCH more consistently good. Same signal strength readings, nothing new there (and I understand that those don't tell the whole story anyway). I haven't the foggiest reason why. No equipment changes have occurred. Anything to explain this positive change that I haven't considered yet? Maybe I should just keep quiet and hope the winds of fortune don't turn back against me.

You or a neighbor might have been running a central heating unit that caused interference. It could really be just about anything, so I say just sit back and enjoy.

Gilbert
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post #542 of 12144 Old 06-17-2007, 07:57 PM
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hvs10trk,
Speaking of WGN do you know how they encode closed captioning? I contacted them a few weeks back because it's badly delayed and received the answer below.

The HD captioning timing is currently a challenge. Let's take Friends. It arrives here as a standard definition program with the captioning embedded in it. We send that SD version to the "analog" Channel 9 transmitter and everything stays intact. We also take an SD version and upconvert it to HD video wise - slow the audio to match and put it back together before putting it into the HD captioning encoder. That encoder is fed the captioning data from the original SD signal and it converts that data into HD compatible data, inserting it into the HD signal just prior to transmission. There is a great of data translation going on - plus the up conversion delay - which means that the information is delayed when reinserted into the HD data stream. Depending on the HD encoding (read compression) process, this is further delayed by a variable amount. We usually see HD captions running between 2.5 and 4 seconds behind the SD version when viewed off air via our digital transmitter. You're suffering through one more delay thought. Since you're watching via HD cable, your HD cable set top box has to receive the captioning data, decode it, and then insert it into the component signal that is connected to your HD display. Our testing found that this adds between .5 and 2 additional seconds delay to the actual displayed text - again depending on a host of variables associated with the cable box.


Mostly makes sense, but then why don't other channels seem to have the same problem?

I'm hard of hearing but get a fair amount of the audio, however I need the closed captioning to fill in the blanks. It's hard to do that when it's so far off of the audio.
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post #543 of 12144 Old 06-18-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

Anyway, Rammitinski, if it's still on your DVR and you have HD DVD gear, perhaps you could do a better comparison.

Nope, no HD-DVD. Since I pretty much never watch DVD's, I won't even consider getting into that stuff until they can record in HD, have a pass-through HD tuner, a hard drive, and a built-in programming guide. And I might be waitin' forever for that one .

I'm having enough problems just with the display side of things. My Elite 1140 just went on the fritz after 3 months. Everything is either heavily greenish-brown or purple-tinged, and there is "crawling moss" and blocking artifacts that were never evident on any sources before on all sources now. And no amount of adjusting helps.

What's weird is that I saw the colors change literally right before my very eyes. It's not like anything went bad between times it was on, like when we had that lightning storm last week. (I do have a decent surge protector on it.) And I haven't touched any of the color or contrast settings since the first month, when I only had to make a few small tweaks, since the colors were so great right out of the box. The thing was absolutely perfect up till this point.

And to top things off, it's a month past the 60-day, "defective exchange" point.

edit: guys came to pick it up this morning and bring it in to the shop, so we'll see how it goes.
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post #544 of 12144 Old 06-18-2007, 08:19 PM
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Didn't the Blu-Ray camp originally claim they would have recording capability from the outset? Maybe that applied to Japan only.

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post #545 of 12144 Old 06-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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There are standalone, PC Blu-Ray burners on the market now here, if that's what they meant. I know Sony has a couple.
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post #546 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Nope, no HD-DVD. Since I pretty much never watch DVD's, I won't even consider getting into that stuff until they can record in HD, have a pass-through HD tuner, a hard drive, and a built-in programming guide. And I might be waitin' forever for that one .

I'm having enough problems just with the display side of things. ...

Sorry to hear about your hardware problems. I hope you'll get a satisfactory solution soon.
I mostly watch DVD and HD DVD and only turn on my ATSC tuner for special programs. Perhaps at some time in the future I'll be able to do a "proper" comparison of the same program -- OTA versus HD media.
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post #547 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

Sorry to hear about your hardware problems. I hope you'll get a satisfactory solution soon.
I mostly watch DVD and HD DVD and only turn on my ATSC tuner for special programs. Perhaps at some time in the future I'll be able to do a "proper" comparison of the same program -- OTA versus HD media.

I actually own 3 SD DVD recorder/players, but I have and use them more for their HDD's than anything else. I occasionally will transfer something to DVD, though.

Believe it or not, I only own 2 pre-recorded DVD's - and those are both music DVD's.

Plus, I still have the Sony HD DVR. And I still do have the program you mention on there - it's too bad I don't have any way to dump it to DVD in full HD, though. There's actually quite a few PBS-HD things I've got on there that I wish I could do that with.
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post #548 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Plus, I still have the Sony HD DVR. And I still do have the program you mention on there - it's too bad I don't have any way to dump it to DVD in full HD, though. There's actually quite a few PBS-HD things I've got on there that I wish I could do that with.

I believe that some folks are burning HD material from their computers in HD DVD format to regular red laser DVD-R or DVD+R that can be played back on HD DVD players. Probably for Blu-ray also.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146 I don't know if anyone does this from a Sony HD DVR. But it would be nice!
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post #549 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

I believe that some folks are burning HD material from their computers in HD DVD format to regular red laser DVD-R or DVD+R that can be played back on HD DVD players. Probably for Blu-ray also.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146 I don't know if anyone does this from a Sony HD DVR. But it would be nice!

No, unfortunately there's no way to do it, and even the experienced hackers on the Sony thread have failed to do it. They can't even replace the hard drives, because the thing is so bullet-proof (you know Sony and their "protectiveness" .)

I knew that you could record to DVD in HD with the right PC setup, but I didn't realize you could play the discs back on an HD-DVD deck, though. That's cool.
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post #550 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 06:47 PM
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WYIN

Does anybody know what happened to WYIN? Both analog and dt went out early yesterday afternoon about the time the storms hit northwest Indiana. They are out ota, comcast and directv. I wonder if maybe they got hit by the storms?

R. B.
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post #551 of 12144 Old 06-19-2007, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retromzc View Post

WYIN

Does anybody know what happened to WYIN? Both analog and dt went out early yesterday afternoon about the time the storms hit northwest Indiana. They are out ota, comcast and directv. I wonder if maybe they got hit by the storms?

There as a story in the Trib that said an electrical transformer was hit by lightning, didn't know when it would be repaired.
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post #552 of 12144 Old 06-20-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad View Post

There as a story in the Trib that said an electrical transformer was hit by lightning, didn't know when it would be repaired.

Press release on their web site:
http://www.lakeshoreptv.com/res/pdf/...orm-damage.pdf
Quote:


Merrillville, Indiana The severe storm that swept through Northwest Indiana on Monday
June 18th knocked Lakeshore Public Television off the air, leaving the station's broadcast
systems in need of repair. Engineers are diligently working to restore the broadcast signal.


Need help with your Motorola DVR? Check the Wikibook: How to use a Motorola DVR
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post #553 of 12144 Old 06-21-2007, 02:12 PM
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I don't know when it came back, but they are on-the-air now (or at least on my Comcast cable).

Need help with your Motorola DVR? Check the Wikibook: How to use a Motorola DVR
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post #554 of 12144 Old 06-23-2007, 03:50 PM
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nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

tickled to be here
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post #555 of 12144 Old 06-23-2007, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr74 View Post

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

A low pressure system stalled over central/southern Illinois. I'm getting interference from Madison, WI tonight as a result. And all the humidity is causing electrical interference from soggy power lines on WBBM. WCIU and WTTW all have Madison analog counterparts, so it sounds like you are getting this

Gilbert
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post #556 of 12144 Old 06-24-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

You or a neighbor might have been running a central heating unit that caused interference. It could really be just about anything, so I say just sit back and enjoy.

It doesn't seem likely in this immediate area, but who knows. It'll remain a mystery, I suppose. What's weird, or perhaps revealing of some clue, all the other HD signals (NBC, ABC, WB, WTTW) are a little more "finicky" now, when they rarely were before. In other words, I get a few more little "blips" of video/audio interference or quality diminishment on those other channels. Random enough to not be obnoxious to my viewing enjoyment, but clearly increased starting somewhere around the time that CBS improved. It's like CBS's bad HD mojo got dispersed to the rest, scattering poor bits of reception to the other HD channels.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #557 of 12144 Old 06-24-2007, 10:28 PM
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Hi

I have had cable my entire life. Never dealt with an antenna. Do I have any chance of getting anything OTA with an indoor antenna? I live in McHenry. If so, what kind of antenna would be the best bet?
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post #558 of 12144 Old 06-24-2007, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by peterbilt95 View Post

Hi

I have had cable my entire life. Never dealt with an antenna. Do I have any chance of getting anything OTA with an indoor antenna? I live in McHenry. If so, what kind of antenna would be the best bet?

Do you have any windows with a reasonably unblocked view facing in the directions of Chicago (SSE), Rockford (WNW), or Milwaukee (NNE)?

Better yet is if you could place it on a second floor in one of those directions, and run the coax from there to wherever the TV is.

There are a few good antenna models you can try, but you'll most likely need an amplified one to receive anything steadily.

(You can forget about WBBM-DT from there with an indoor model - but you may be able to receive CBS out of one or both of the other markets.)

I can receive all of the Chicago & Rockford stations with an indoor antenna, and I'm a few miles south of you, near 31 & 14. But I'm also on pretty high ground.

You'll definitely need to get as high and open as possible to have a shot at any of those three markets.
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post #559 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr74 View Post

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

Several things can happen
First, the humidity in the atmosphere is way way up. Water vapor is a good absorber of RF, particularly at higher freqs where most of the Chicago stations are, sos the signal from the desired stations become weaker

Second, there has been some modest tropo skip lately. So the signals from the undesired co-channel interfering stations becomes stronger.

Put it all together and you have a seasonal decrease in ability to tune in a station.

Also, not to mention that atmospherics get stronger what with all the thunderstorms across the US, and summer is just a plain bad time to be watching TV.

I've notice lately that both ch7 and ch11 fade out on me during the evening. ch9 is usually close behind. I attribute that to tropo skip as the atmosophere quiets down for the evening.

-dickm
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post #560 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr74 View Post

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

We (WCIU) get knocked out by WKOW-TV in Madison alot. Especially to the northwest of chicago. Mainly the 2 PSIP's mix and we'll show up as 27-1.

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post #561 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Do you have any windows with a reasonably unblocked view facing in the directions of Chicago (SSE), Rockford (WNW), or Milwaukee (NNE)?

Better yet is if you could place it on a second floor in one of those directions, and run the coax from there to wherever the TV is.

There are a few good antenna models you can try, but you'll most likely need an amplified one to receive anything steadily.

(You can forget about WBBM-DT from there with an indoor model - but you may be able to receive CBS out of one or both of the other markets.)

I can receive all of the Chicago & Rockford stations with an indoor antenna, and I'm a few miles south of you, near 31 & 14. But I'm also on pretty high ground.

You'll definitely need to get as high and open as possible to have a shot at any of those three markets.

Thanks, I got results with an RCA ANT525. Honestly, I couldn't believe it.
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post #562 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 08:08 AM
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i am back up with most of my stations, antenna back in usual location. however, wfld and wciu .1 /.2 are dead to me. I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys? it can't be a power issue from their end.

oddly enough, wbbm is stronger than ever.

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post #563 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr74 View Post

I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys?

You're not using an amplified antenna by any chance, are you?

If you were, I'd suspect overload, because the stations would be coming in stronger now than when it was cooler.

Do you have any trees around you that have gotten fuller?

More cars passing by than usual? Because you can get reflections off of those, too.
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post #564 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by peterbilt95 View Post

Thanks, I got results with an RCA ANT525. Honestly, I couldn't believe it.

That's great to hear.

What kind of results are you getting?

The reason I ask is because there are other antennas that people have generally had better results with.
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post #565 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr74 View Post

i am back up with most of my stations, antenna back in usual location. however, wfld and wciu .1 /.2 are dead to me. I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys? it can't be a power issue from their end.

oddly enough, wbbm is stronger than ever.

Good posibility. I believe we both feed the same antenna.

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post #566 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvs10trk View Post

Good posibility. I believe we both feed the same antenna.

i do have an amp in the line (many feet from the antenna) due to the distance the cables travel in my house. i had tried routing around that off when this all started, to no avail. to be honest, i forgot about it until you mentioned it again. i will turn it off tonight and see.

there is a tree that is no fuller now than it was a month ago. i actually move my antenna once the tree fills in every year.

i live on western avenue, is there ever any less traffic on that street?

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post #567 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 04:01 PM
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Some Nice Tropo This Afternoon

Around 1:30 this afternoon some real nice tropo from the Rockford area appeared. It's not unusual for me to lock WTVO or WQRF-DT but today WREX-DT and even WIFR-DT and TV completely overtook Chicago WWME 23 and LP 41. First time I've ever locked WREX or WIFR-DT. BTW I did not like WIFR's upper right hand bug.

R. B.
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post #568 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by retromzc View Post

Some Nice Tropo This Afternoon

Around 1:30 this afternoon some real nice tropo from the Rockford area appeared. It's not unusual for me to lock WTVO or WQRF-DT but today WREX-DT and even WIFR-DT and TV completely overtook Chicago WWME 23 and LP 41. First time I've ever locked WREX or WIFR-DT. BTW I did not like WIFR's upper right hand bug.

Quit complainin'.

It WAS CBS, wasn't it?

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post #569 of 12144 Old 06-26-2007, 06:58 PM
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[b]lol

R. B.
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post #570 of 12144 Old 06-27-2007, 07:48 AM
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Hey there!

I'm new to the OTA side of things and I hope you can help me. I live out in Gilberts, IL and am just starting to piece my HD OTA stuff together. I bought the Radio Shack 15-1892 indoor antenna and of course - no WBBM (2).

For my area what would you suggest would be the ideal indoor antenna?
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