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post #31 of 12163 Old 03-07-2007, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

So what's the story on WOCH-LP?

Are they going bye-bye, or are they just not listed because there's no official word yet?

WOCH-LP, along with two other broadcasters, applied for channel 49. Until that is squared away, I elected to keep them off until an FCC highest bidder auction determines who gets that channel.

Gilbert
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post #32 of 12163 Old 03-07-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Yep. Severe multipath is likely causing the problems for you on WGN. WLS is coming in less strongly because it was likely getting a little signal through your leaky coax! Replace the short cables if they are "cheap". Then, your job is to remember where the antenna is now, and play with it to see what offers you the best signal, now that you are using good cable.

AMEN Gilbert!!! Right in between the "towers" is the worst place for reception. (Aside from our transmitter room ) Stations on the Hancock have the worst multipath because the reflect right off sears tower.

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post #33 of 12163 Old 03-07-2007, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

WOCH-LP, along with two other broadcasters, applied for channel 49. Until that is squared away, I elected to keep them off until an FCC highest bidder auction determines who gets that channel.

Well, OK then .

Thanks.
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post #34 of 12163 Old 03-08-2007, 08:30 PM
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Gilbert,

Way to go! Great format, get's right to the point. Haven't looked at the forum for a couple of days, we needed a good house cleaning!

Boy that 11.4 is painful.

Everything down here has been spot on, even with some of that nasty stuff we had a couple of weeks ago. Again, thanks for all your advice and hard work.

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post #35 of 12163 Old 03-08-2007, 10:25 PM
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Is there a reason CBS chooses to send their signal via VHF instead of UHF like everyone else? Did they screw up, or are they just being stubborn? I can't imagine they wouldn't want to be in as many households as everyone else.
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post #36 of 12163 Old 03-08-2007, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by heisman View Post

Is there a reason CBS chooses to send their signal via VHF instead of UHF like everyone else? Did they screw up, or are they just being stubborn? I can't imagine they wouldn't want to be in as many households as everyone else.

It's not by choice, that's the channel they were allocated.

E
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post #37 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG386 View Post

Gilbert,

Way to go! Great format, get's right to the point. Haven't looked at the forum for a couple of days, we needed a good house cleaning!

Boy that 11.4 is painful.

Everything down here has been spot on, even with some of that nasty stuff we had a couple of weeks ago. Again, thanks for all your advice and hard work.

I have been observing 11-1 carefully since the addition, and I have definitely come to the conclusion that 11-4 also borrowed some bits from that channel, as I can regularly see a bit more obvious artifacting than was ever noticable before. It's not terrible and a huge amount, but I've got a 50" screen now, and I am definitely able to see a difference from before and after.

I was A/B'ing Pt. 1 of the Frampton concert last night with Pt. 2, which I had on my Sony DVR, and I was able to notice it with that. Also, like I said in a previous post (which I believe is in the old thread now), I have been noticing the "creeping fog" effect in dark scenes to be a bit stronger on certain broadcasts. Not anywhere near as bad as my SD E* channels, of course - NOTHING is THAT bad - but noticable to my acute eye, nonetheless.

As far as 11-2 and 11-3 being noticably worse, well - I don't even think anyone would need a "trained eye" to come to that conclusion . Heck, even Gilbert, who usually doesn't admit to those sorts of things (other than with WBBM - which there's no gettin' around), couldn't help but notice and admit to it . (Couldn't resist that one . Seriously - keep up the good work .)
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post #38 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

As far as 11-2 and 11-3 being noticably worse, well - I don't even think anyone would need a "trained eye" to come to that conclusion . Heck, even Gilbert, who usually doesn't admit to those sorts of things (other than with WBBM - which there's no gettin' around), couldn't help but notice and admit to it . (Couldn't resist that one . Seriously - keep up the good work .)

Thanks! I can even notice it a bit on my oldie 26" TV. Ugh, ugh, ugh. I saw 11-4 for the first time last night. Ugh...

Gilbert
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post #39 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 04:32 PM
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That was certainly true in the beginning, but they sure haven't made any effort to improve the situation.

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Originally Posted by epsilon View Post

It's not by choice, that's the channel they were allocated.

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post #40 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 06:20 PM
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I get ch.5 and 7 using there air space for there weather channels, road reports, public service, and self promotion of there programming but what's up with 2 and maybe 32 with some type of sub programming also? I know we've discussed the Tube (9.2) already- so if they can do it why not 2 or 32?

On the other side of the coin, we have 35 which has 5 channels and 38 with another 4. -what gives? Are they not considered part of the Chicago market?

WBBM probably doesn't have enough snort to broadcast another channel, but 32 sure could put something out there to add to our viewing pleasure, or is there more to it. Personally, I like the Tube but those bean counters may have a different opinion

O.K., look at 20.2 with color bars. Why not broadcast replays of Louie, Louie by the Kingsman 24-7 instead of those damn bars.

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post #41 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG386 View Post

I get ch.5 and 7 using there air space for there weather channels, road reports, public service, and self promotion of there programming but what's up with 2 and maybe 32 with some type of sub programming also? I know we've discussed the Tube (9.2) already- so if they can do it why not 2 or 32?

On the other side of the coin, we have 35 which has 5 channels and 38 with another 4. -what gives? Are they not considered part of the Chicago market?

WBBM probably doesn't have enough snort to broadcast another channel, but 32 sure could put something out there to add to our viewing pleasure, or is there more to it. Personally, I like the Tube but those bean counters may have a different opinion

O.K., look at 20.2 with color bars. Why not broadcast replays of Louie, Louie by the Kingsman 24-7 instead of those damn bars.

You mean so that they can give us great picture quality like WTTW, boy I can't wait for that!!!
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post #42 of 12163 Old 03-09-2007, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by moxie1617 View Post

You mean so that they can give us great picture quality like WTTW, boy I can't wait for that!!!

When done right, subs with HD can be done well (see WLS, WCIU). There is room
for 4:3 and widescreen non-HD; there's a lot of junk in HD as well as good stuff, just as there is 4:3.

I love Weather Plus, and so do others...but others dislike it a lot as well. I would give up HD bandwidth for better programming. However, in many cases the two don't go along with each other. 11-1 and 11-2...keep it at that, and put 11-3 and 11-4 on 20-2 and 20-3. In any event...I know we have the HD purists and those who don't mind subs as long as they show something good.

Gilbert
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post #43 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

I love Weather Plus, and so do others...but others dislike it a lot as well. I would give up HD bandwidth for better programming.......In any event...I know we have the HD purists and those who don't mind subs as long as they show something good.

I don't mind weather plus myself - it's just that I think that one, really good weather sub is all we really need. As far as giving up HD bandwith for more subs with good content, I'm all for that - except they should keep them off of the networks that show a lot of motion and show sports - particularly pro and college games. That means NO subs whatsoever (even weather) on 2,5,7,9,26 or 32 (those horrible looking high school basketball games on 26-2 don't count - they're not all that important, and they're on a sub). The one channel that they should be stickin' them on for sure should be 50. Maybe stick The Tube and the weather on there, and forget about ABC+ altogether - everything on there is rerun from the main channel anyway.

They could also put on something worthwhile in place of that completely useless, bandwith-waster 38-4. (I don't know which of their subs it actually is, but everytime I've flipped past it for the last week they've had on that stupid, "Perricone Prescription" infomercial.)

As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

At least, that's what I'd do if I were king .
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post #44 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post


At least, that's what I'd do if I were king .


Hey, Hey,
You've got my vote

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post #45 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

You know, I think they even did what they pleased when the added 11-3. With this move I really don't believe they had their engineers ( who I ranted on is incompetent) "evaluate" the quality of the programming on 11-1 after the addition of 11-3. I think they just told them to do it. To the WTTW engineers, I apologize. To WTTW management, I really didn't appreciate your solicitation for your Annual Fund. You may kiss off.

Ramm, you got my vote too.
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post #46 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epsilon View Post

It's not by choice, that's the channel they were allocated.

Obviously, I don't understand how any of this works. But, I just can't believe I can get every OTA channel in Chicago with a lousy $5 antenna that I shoved into a closet, but I would need a building permit and $400 to get CBS. You would think they would have a little more power than that.
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post #47 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by heisman View Post

Obviously, I don't understand how any of this works. But, I just can't believe I can get every OTA channel in Chicago with a lousy $5 antenna that I shoved into a closet, but I would need a building permit and $400 to get CBS. You would think they would have a little more power than that.

Heisman,

LOL! Briefly, here's what happened:

WBBM was given channel 3 as their initial digital channel. They tried to buy WYCC's allocation of channel 21, but WYCC wanted too much money. Then,
they appealed to the FCC for more power on channel 3, citing hardship. They also went to WTTW and negotiated to transmit on channel 11; but due to surrounding stations broadcasting on 11, they can only go to 1,180 watts. In the interim,WBBM-DT got a whopping 4,400 watts total for their efforts on channel 3.

There is a very slim chance that under the last phase of round 3, they might have filed a different channel request. Of the 46 stations still on channels 2-6 after analog shutdown in 2009, at least two (according to the FCC) appealed to extend the deadline to switch channels. This also goes for stations who are unable to power up fully due to interference from other stations; WBBM falls into that category. The extension for both ended on February 26, 2007. We now await the outcome to see which of those 46 channels decided to get off channels 2-6, and which ones who had interference jumped to another channel. The FCC should be announcing those at any time. I am not holding my breath.

Gilbert
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post #48 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 11:41 AM
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I have issues with WTTW, but I would like counterbalance all the negativity about 11-1. I have the LG3100 tuner from about 3 years ago, and am now using the Samsung DT-H260F tuner. (Much more robust reception, BTW.) I'm in a near north side high rise condo with an indoor Silver Sensor antenna. I'm running at 1080i component to a 1280x720 Mitsubishi HD1000 DLP projector on an 87" diagonal screen. I'm viewing from about 12 feet away - about 2 screen widths.

A couple years ago when there was just 11-1 and 11-2, I felt that 11-2's quality was such that it was not worth watching on my projector. I used an 800x600 (800x450 effective) Infocus X1 at that time. When 11-3 was added and 11-1 went to 720p, I thought 11-1 still looked good on the X1. Neither 11-2 or 11-3 was worth projecting.

Now 11-4 has been added. Naturally 11-2, 11-3 and 11-4 look pretty poor on the HD1000 projector. However 11-1 still looks very good to me, depending on the program. It's usually quite apparent which programs are really HD. For instance, last night I watched the IMAX film "The Magic of Flight" on 11-1. It looked VERY good. I recently watched "Nature : Penguins of the Antarctic" and found it quite interesting, though not really HD level video quality. Rudy Maxa's travel shows usually looks very good, as does Rick Steves' (when his camera doesn't pan too rapidly).

While the music on "Soundstage" is usually not to my taste, the visual quality is quite satisfactory on my system. I'm eagerly anticipating next Wednesday's showing of The Magic Flute from the Metropolitan Opera. I saw this in the movie theater when it was shown live on 12/30/06. I fully expect the WTTW 11-1 version to look better than the theater's showing.

I'd like to check out specific shows on 11-1 which some of you have complaints about. I suspect most of the issues are source related. But then, I didn't have HD equipment in the glorious old days of only 11-1 (at 1080i) and 11-2.
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post #49 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Heisman,

LOL! Briefly, here's what happened:

WBBM was given channel 3 as their initial digital channel. They tried to buy WYCC's allocation of channel 21, but WYCC wanted too much money. Then,
they appealed to the FCC for more power on channel 3, citing hardship. They also went to WTTW and negotiated to transmit on channel 11; but due to surrounding stations broadcasting on 11, they can only go to 1,180 watts. In the interim,WBBM-DT got a whopping 4,400 watts total for their efforts on channel 3.

There is a very slim chance that under the last phase of round 3, they might have filed a different channel request. Of the 46 stations still on channels 2-46 after analog shutdown in 2009, at least two (according to the FCC) appealed to extend the deadline to switch channels. This also goes for stations who are unable to power up fully due to interference from other stations; WBBM falls into that category. The extension for both ended on February 26, 2007. We now await the outcome to see which of those 46 channels decided to get off channels 2-6, and which ones who had interference jumped to another channel. The FCC should be announcing those at any time. I am not holding my breath.

Very intriguing! I appreciate the thorough explanation. I won't hold my breath either, but they should really be ashamed of themselves IMHO.
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post #50 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

They could also put on something worthwhile in place of that completely useless, bandwith-waster 38-4. (I don't know which of their subs it actually is, but everytime I've flipped past it for the last week they've had on that stupid, "Perricone Prescription" infomercial.)

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

Quote:


As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

At least, that's what I'd do if I were king .

Well, king, I'm gonna crown ya...

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. The Milwaukee HDTV board is not happy about that one. The only pure PBS 1080i HD is now from South Bend, IN, on 34.1 (rf 35) with one sub...but it looks great. Both PBS stations are difficult to get because of WWTO-TV analog 35 in LaSalle, and especially WNIT-DT, which is only at 50 kw.

Proof of concept:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/...ead.php?t=6886


I await the barrage of anger from the Crystal Lake area posters.

Gilbert
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post #51 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 02:54 PM
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.......................... But then, I didn't have HD equipment in the glorious old days of only 11-1 (at 1080i) and 11-2.

If you had been able to view WTTW 11-1 back then you would not have been using the term Very Good, quite satisfactory, etc. You would have been using adjectives like stunning, outstanding, 3D like, etc. Today, I find 11-1 okay, better than my SD DirecTv and the rest, well my old SD DirecTv is better at 480x480.
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post #52 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too.

Ayyyyyeeeeeeee!!!!
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post #53 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

When it first started, I thought it was actually pretty good - but now I can see that they are just running the same things over and over and over and over.............
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post #54 of 12163 Old 03-10-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.


Well, king, I'm gonna crown ya...

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. The Milwaukee HDTV board is not happy about that one. The only pure PBS 1080i HD is now from South Bend, IN, on 34.1 (rf 35) with one sub...but it looks great. Both PBS stations are difficult to get because of WWTO-TV analog 35 in LaSalle, and especially WNIT-DT, which is only at 50 kw.

Proof of concept:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/...ead.php?t=6886


I await the barrage of anger from the Crystal Lake area posters.

In the words of the ESPN great Dan Patrick: "Good god, hide the women and children."

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post #55 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too.

Do you know that for a fact or is that just conjecture? Milwaukee already has PBS channel 10 broadcasting 7 subs on it. It would be a shame if they started messin' with PBS 36 now....

There are 10 types of people who understand binary - those that do... and those that don't.
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post #56 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 06:13 PM
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Anyone Else having Problems with FOX Chicago HD Station? Im trying to find out if its comcast or Fox Chicago Station itself?
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post #57 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 06:45 PM
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Anyone Else having Problems with FOX Chicago HD Station? Im trying to find out if its comcast or Fox Chicago Station itself?


Could you be alot more specific as to what "problems" you're having?

Regards,

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post #58 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 06:52 PM
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I have problems with FOX and it's related to aspect ratio in HD. I've been receiving the OTA HD broadcast on my D* TIVO for the past 2 years and it's always been very good, as well as providing FULL screen HD meaning no black bars. I know that most of the channel 5 stuff did include black bars on the side, but not FOX. Now I recently watched the Nascar race from today and like I said it has always been FULL screen. Today had black bars.

What the heck? Did they change their equipment for did they forget to flip a switch or something? I'm confused. I hate black bars but I also hate watching the highly compressed D* regular FOX feed.

Anybody know what's happening here?
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post #59 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
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Could you be alot more specific as to what "problems" you're having?

Regards,

Randy

The Problems are that its not in HD, its just the SD Channel being broadcasted on the HD Station.
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post #60 of 12163 Old 03-11-2007, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO710HD View Post

I have problems with FOX and it's related to aspect ratio in HD. I've been receiving the OTA HD broadcast on my D* TIVO for the past 2 years and it's always been very good, as well as providing FULL screen HD meaning no black bars. I know that most of the channel 5 stuff did include black bars on the side, but not FOX. Now I recently watched the Nascar race from today and like I said it has always been FULL screen. Today had black bars.

What the heck? Did they change their equipment for did they forget to flip a switch or something? I'm confused. I hate black bars but I also hate watching the highly compressed D* regular FOX feed.

Anybody know what's happening here?

Im Watching the Winner right now on Comcast....Black bars on the side which means no HD...you haveing the same problem?
Carmine782 is offline  
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