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post #721 of 12099 Old 08-16-2007, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swalve View Post

As I explained. The cable from the demarc is mine, not the cable company's. They won't change it with their own.

Why should I take the RG-11 back? It's a better cable than any RG6 out there, it is a 75 ohm cable and it has f-connectors. And it's loss figures per 100 feet are better than any rg6 that I could find.

I do have a clear picture, I want more signal so I can split the line for a QAM tuner.




I haven't had an outage in years, and because of my location, I can't get a clear, reliable picture even with a 4228.

But that's not the point. If you didn't have an answer for me, all you had to do is say "no, I haven't heard of such a thing". If I was looking for abuse and criticism, I'd have asked my wife.

Hey, never mind. Thanks for the "help".

Randy,

I wasn't meaning to criticize or abuse. I was defending you that you were right...you can change your inside wiring...it's yours. And you are right that RG-11 is considerably better than RG-6. However, I think the best way to handle it is to let Comcast put in their own RG-6, then boost the signal so that even after a split, you can get great reception on all your TV's. You can keep the RG-11 in there, but I was just trying to save you $20, because Comcast should take care of it. They aren't giving you the signal you are paying for. But since they have already decided they won't swap it out, keep it, and I'll add it to my list of 3,208 reasons why Comcast customer service...isn't.

As for a bi-directional amplifier for cable modems, this one is useful:

http://www.amazon.com/CABLES-GO-4103.../dp/B0002J2P7U

And I misunderstood you...I thought you didn't have a clear picture to begin with. Mea culpa, and my apologies. And as for the 4228, wow. That is definitely a hard signal area where you are.

And again, I didn't mean to come off as insulting or abusive, and if I did, I most certainly apologize.

Gilbert
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post #722 of 12099 Old 08-16-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swalve View Post

Hey sebenste- I've been having trouble searching for what I'm looking for, thought maybe you'd know of a thing.

I live in a multi unit dwelling, and I have cable. (I just cannot get OTA reliably enough and had to bite the bullet.) However, my signal is a little low.

I have a 100' run. I replaced the crappy existing cable with RG-11 and that doubled my signal, but I still need a little more to do what I want to. I'm looking for an amplifier with the following two characteristics:

1) Works with cable modems. (return path pass through, or some such)
2) Has an external piece that I can install at the demarcation point that will "push" the signal and cleanly overcome the loss on the line. Like the two piece antenna-mounted amps.

Ever run across such a thing?

I don't know of any 2-piece bidirectional cable amps. Otherwise, a common cable amp is the Motorola 484095-001-00. It's a 15dB amp with a 2.5dB max noise. It should make a good OTA amp, too.

You could put it right where your cable comes in, and put the splitters after it. To be honest, if your modem has good signal levels, split before that. You may even want to use a tap if your modem has good incoming levels. That will allow the TV to get a slightly stronger signal. A 6dB tap will have roughly 2.5dB of loss on the pass-thru, vs 3.5dB on a normal splitter. Higher dB taps will have lower pass-thru loss.

Need help with your Motorola DVR? Check the Wikibook: How to use a Motorola DVR
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post #723 of 12099 Old 08-16-2007, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CableTool View Post

There is such a thing as too much signal. Im not sure how your measuring your signal but its unlikely that a run of 11 Vs a run of 6 for 100' doubled your signal.

Secondly, unless you own the MDU you live in, you do not own the cable running from the box. Or even in your unit depending on the MDU. Most MDUs hold the cableco responsible for all exterior wiring.

Any amp you install AT the lockbox will most likely be removed by any cable technician upon sight. It most likely will not be an aproved material and furthermore against spec. They tend to be a little protective as to what feeds BACK into their system as wel.

If you have +15 coming out of the lockboxand you put in a 15db amp youll be at +30 leaving the lockbox. Regardless of what it is when it enters your unit, your overdriving your signal which will present itself as busy horizontal lines across your screen.

If you have legitimate signal issues you really should have them addressed. If you just want to get as much signal into your unit as possible, or have some sort of obsessive compulsive thing going on with loosing signal due to attenuation- you really should learn as much as possible about what you can and cant do.

Good luck regardless.

Thanks for the info! It is a condo, so I do own the wires. I was using the cable modem's config page combined with the loss specs of the cable to determine doubled signal. (assuming every 3.5 db is a doubling?)

What do the cablecos use to overcome signal loss on a long run like this?

I'm not sure what I have coming out of the box, but at the outlet in my unit, my cable modem shows 35db signal to noise with -15 dBmV of power. (36db/-12 with the rg11) It shows 54.0 dBmV of return power. Just enough signal to split once to my STB and modem, so I can't complain to Comcast. If I say I want to split it off to a QAM tuner and a PC-based capture card, they're going to look at me like I'm a lunatic.

And I apologize for being snippy, I was honestly looking for advice from the people here who know more about signal and amps. That's the crux of my problem, not
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post #724 of 12099 Old 08-17-2007, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The still to be built WOCK-LD (Azteca America), displaced by WBBM-DT's move to channel 12, had applied to move to channel 6, directional west, south and east to keep from interfering with FOX 6 in Milwaukee. However, Venture Technologies also has analog and digital applications and a CP for an analog displacement on channel 6, when they were bumped off channel 55. I will update the first page with all the info. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, I noted analog channel 48 is off the air today, but is still on 26-3.

Gilbert
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post #725 of 12099 Old 08-17-2007, 07:31 PM
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Is it their digital signal that WOCK-LP wants on channel 6?

If so, Fox 6 from Milwaukee is analog, and will be gone soon enough anyway, so what's the big deal?
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post #726 of 12099 Old 08-17-2007, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Is it their digital signal that WOCK-LP wants on channel 6?

Yes.

Quote:


If so, Fox 6 from Milwaukee is analog, and will be gone soon enough anyway, so what's the big deal?

Think about it: 9% of the power that WBBM-DT has now, with much of the interference they get now, and even WORSE interference from FM stations than WBBM-DT. With all that FM radio radiation coming off of Sears, that channel will be slaughtered.

And, they are competing with another displaced channel from Venture Technologies, who asked for it first. That said, I know they can't do much better.
In another year, they can move to channel 11. Yes, I know, but at 300 watts,
they can at least go omnidirectional, and be picked up within 10 miles of Sears.

BTW, something you should know: WBBM is at 4.4 kw, but only 3.15 kw is directed towards Crystal Lake/Gilberts. When they go to channel 12, they might have to briefly go to 3.2 kw. With a 6th gen tuner, even at that power, we should be able to lock it. I'd love to have a 6th gen right now. This morning (8/17/07), there was a major tropo event though central and northern IL. A respected DTV DX'er in Champaign claimed he had digital signals on every channel from 14-59 on his scope, but his 3rd or 4th generation tuner couldn't lock many of them. But one guy in town did say he briefly locked WBBM-DT from Champaign this morning. I guess their analog channel 3 must have been off the air for maintenance or something...

Gilbert
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post #727 of 12099 Old 08-18-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

The still to be built WOCK-LD (Azteca America), displaced by WBBM-DT's move to channel 12, had applied to move to channel 6, directional west, south and east to keep from interfering with FOX 6 in Milwaukee. However, Venture Technologies also has analog and digital applications and a CP for an analog displacement on channel 6, when they were bumped off channel 55. I will update the first page with all the info. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, I noted analog channel 48 is off the air today, but is still on 26-3.

Transmitter maintenance on 48.

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post #728 of 12099 Old 08-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Yes.



Think about it: 9% of the power that WBBM-DT has now, with much of the interference they get now, and even WORSE interference from FM stations than WBBM-DT. With all that FM radio radiation coming off of Sears, that channel will be slaughtered.

And, they are competing with another displaced channel from Venture Technologies, who asked for it first. That said, I know they can't do much better.
In another year, they can move to channel 11. Yes, I know, but at 300 watts,
they can at least go omnidirectional, and be picked up within 10 miles of Sears.

BTW, something you should know: WBBM is at 4.4 kw, but only 3.15 kw is directed towards Crystal Lake/Gilberts. When they go to channel 12, they might have to briefly go to 3.2 kw. With a 6th gen tuner, even at that power, we should be able to lock it. I'd love to have a 6th gen right now. This morning (8/17/07), there was a major tropo event though central and northern IL. A respected DTV DX'er in Champaign claimed he had digital signals on every channel from 14-59 on his scope, but his 3rd or 4th generation tuner couldn't lock many of them. But one guy in town did say he briefly locked WBBM-DT from Champaign this morning. I guess their analog channel 3 must have been off the air for maintenance or something...

I'm not from Champaign, Gilbert. I got WBBM-DT from here in Webster Groves, MO, ten miles southwest of the Gateway Arch...

And I got it on a 4228, on the backside, fed with about 70' of RG-6 quad into a 4th gen Sanyo reciever. No amplifier, since I'm visual line of sight with no less than *five* megawatt DTV xmtrs, a dozen 100 KW FM's, plus 4 full power VHF analogs, plus one VHF-High LPTV and a half dozen LPTV's. I omit KETC-9, KNLC-24, and WRBU-47, BTW.

And a badly grounded religious 4.6 KW AM at 500 YARDS.

Oh, yeah, a dozen 400' skyscrapers at four miles too, thrown in just for the multipath.

Can you say "front-end overload" and "intermod"? I have a challenging DX environment.

Same night, I picked up ABC 41, Battle Creek MI, on an indoor DB-4, feeding the same set (switching, three antennas). I've got 3 4228's outside, two DB-4's and one DB-2 inside. Suprisingly, due to the wonders of diffraction and positioning (not to mention front-end-overload) the indoor north pointed DB-4 gets Ottumwa IA, Hannibal/Quincy, and most of the Central IL stations during even modest tropo events.

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?
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post #729 of 12099 Old 08-18-2007, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSplice View Post

I'm not from Champaign, Gilbert. I got WBBM-DT from here in Webster Groves, MO, ten miles southwest of the Gateway Arch...



Quote:


And I got it on a 4228,



Quote:


on the backside,



Quote:


fed with about 70' of RG-6 quad into a 4th gen Sanyo reciever. No amplifier, since I'm visual line of sight with no less than *five* megawatt DTV xmtrs, a dozen 100 KW FM's, plus 4 full power VHF analogs, plus one VHF-High LPTV and a half dozen LPTV's. I omit KETC-9, KNLC-24, and WRBU-47, BTW.

And a badly grounded religious 4.6 KW AM at 500 YARDS.

Oh, yeah, a dozen 400' skyscrapers at four miles too, thrown in just for the multipath.

Can you say "front-end overload" and "intermod"? I have a challenging DX environment.

Well, now we know the conspiracy theory is true: WBBM-DT is sending their signal down to St. Louis!

That's right, I had forgotten you lived down in STL. That is an AMAZING catch!

Quote:


Same night, I picked up ABC 41, Battle Creek MI, on an indoor DB-4, feeding the same set (switching, three antennas). I've got 3 4228's outside, two DB-4's and one DB-2 inside. Suprisingly, due to the wonders of diffraction and positioning (not to mention front-end-overload) the indoor north pointed DB-4 gets Ottumwa IA, Hannibal/Quincy, and most of the Central IL stations during even modest tropo events.

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?[/quote]

Uh, yeah...try harder...sure.

That night was amazing for tropo, as you know. I have a 3rd gen tuner and a 4228 on a rotor, and I had ALL surrounding markets hammer in with ease from every direction sans Peoria, with a large ridge off to my south and southwest blocking the signal. I need to get a 6th gen...and probably will do so early next year when prices come down.

Gilbert
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post #730 of 12099 Old 08-19-2007, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post









Well, now we know the conspiracy theory is true: WBBM-DT is sending their signal down to St. Louis!

That's right, I had forgotten you lived down in STL. That is an AMAZING catch!


Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?

Uh, yeah...try harder...sure.

That night was amazing for tropo, as you know. I have a 3rd gen tuner and a 4228 on a rotor, and I had ALL surrounding markets hammer in with ease from every direction sans Peoria, with a large ridge off to my south and southwest blocking the signal. I need to get a 6th gen...and probably will do so early next year when prices come down.[/quote]

Only buy a 6th gen with the free sex droid thrown in.

I have terrain problems to my south and west. I can pick up *Pittsburgh*, but not KC or Little Rock. Columbia/Jeff is as far west as I can see. I've only gotten two captures in three years from SGF/Joplin. Blame it on a collection of 60-80' trees, and a nasty ridgeline.
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post #731 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 06:25 PM
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When will Comcast have 26-1 (WCIU HD) available? Just got an LG 20" LCD for the kitchen and I get all of the local channels in HD (CADTV).

I have two 3416s for my other rooms but Comcast does not carry WCIU in HD but I figured it would have the CADTV versions.

Any ideas? Thanks, in advance.
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post #732 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fincher View Post

When will Comcast have 26-1 (WCIU HD) available? Just got an LG 20" LCD for the kitchen and I get all of the local channels in HD (CADTV).

I have two 3416s for my other rooms but Comcast does not carry WCIU in HD but I figured it would have the CADTV versions.

Any ideas? Thanks, in advance.

We've played around with the idea a few times. I cannot comment directly on it. All I can say is call Comcast and ask for us. Every little push helps.

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post #733 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

You are, however, 25 miles too far away to reliably get Milwaukee. So Chicago it is...

Would it be possible to get Milwaukee signals with a taller antenna and rotor? I'm a big Packer fan and it would be excellent to catch the Pack in HD every week.
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post #734 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 08:53 PM
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I'm a Chicago sports fan living in Racine, WI in one story duplex a couple blocks from the lake. I've been using a DB4 hanging from the ceiling near the southeast corner of the house with a Radio Shack amp for the last 2 years. It's been pretty reliable in the winter but it's usually worthless during the summers. I was able to watch a Cubs game on WGN last week for the first time in 2 months. I'm currently renting but my landlord has given me the okay to put an antenna on the roof. I was planning on a 4228 since I didn't think WBBM was ever going to be possible but now I don't know. With WLS and WBBM moving to VHF 7 and 12 respectively, what antenna would be my best option going forward in order to pull in those channels too? I'm 60 miles from the towers. I'd rather get it done now and not have to worry about it again after the shutdown. The most important stations for my sports are WGN, WBBM, and WFLD, getting anything else is a bonus. Any idea how much a typical install would cost if I didn't do it myself? Or any installer recommendations for SE Wisconsin? Thanks.

Tom
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post #735 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snert View Post

Would it be possible to get Milwaukee signals with a taller antenna and rotor? I'm a big Packer fan and it would be excellent to catch the Pack in HD every week.

Hello Snert,

I wrote up a 20 minute list that just got blown away by Internet Explorer 7.0. Thanks, Bill Gates!

In short, not reliably. To have any hope of getting it (Dundee can get it on the north side of town on a hill, but that's the farthest I've heard of to get Milwaukee stations reliably) at least during the evening hours, you need to get WISN-DT 34 (12.1). It's 900' up on a tower on the north side of Milwaukee, with a strong signal lobe pointing south, which is good news for you.

But...line of sight is 60 miles by day, 70-80 miles by night, with a big antenna at least 30' up. To have any hope of getting it, you'd need:

1. ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna
2. ChannelMaster 7777 signal preamplifier
3. Belden 1694A RG-6 cable (All of these three available at Tri State Electronics, www.tselelectronic.com, or you can drive there. NOTE: these are all NON-REFUNDABLE!)
4. The antenna must be AT LEAST 30' high.

Here's WISN-DT's reliable broadcast area, this assumes no preamplifiers and a big antenna at and near the fringe:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1056729.html

If you had this 30'+ up, then you have a shot in the evenings. You would likely also pick up the Chicago stations from the back of the antenna, to be used as a backup.

My thought would be it would be too unreliable for Milwaukee, but if you want it that bad, and can afford it, you can also shoot for WQRF-DT in Rockford, which can get permission from the NFL to show Packer games from time to time.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1171224.html

Again, unless you have the antenna over 30' up, it's not worth trying.

Gilbert
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post #736 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmb017 View Post

I'm a Chicago sports fan living in Racine, WI in one story duplex a couple blocks from the lake. I've been using a DB4 hanging from the ceiling near the southeast corner of the house with a Radio Shack amp for the last 2 years. It's been pretty reliable in the winter but it's usually worthless during the summers. I was able to watch a Cubs game on WGN last week for the first time in 2 months. I'm currently renting but my landlord has given me the okay to put an antenna on the roof. I was planning on a 4228 since I didn't think WBBM was ever going to be possible but now I don't know. With WLS and WBBM moving to VHF 7 and 12 respectively, what antenna would be my best option going forward in order to pull in those channels too? I'm 60 miles from the towers. I'd rather get it done now and not have to worry about it again after the shutdown. The most important stations for my sports are WGN, WBBM, and WFLD, getting anything else is a bonus. Any idea how much a typical install would cost if I didn't do it myself? Or any installer recommendations for SE Wisconsin? Thanks.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yeah, WGN-DT is not great north and northwest of the Chicago metro because of interference from WMTV-DT in Madison broadcasting on the same channel (19).

WBBM isn't moving until after February 2009. To get them and WLS,
you'd need a VERY big VHF/UHF combo antenna. The Winegard 8200P is what you'd need to get 7 and 12 reliably:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

To ship it, it's like $100+! It's cheaper for you to get a pickup truck or rent a big van and get it. 177.5" long, or over 11' . Keep that in mind; I bet your landlord wouldn't like that.

If not, then the 4228 can pick up VHF OK, but you'd probably need a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp to get what you'd want. And it wouldn't get WBBM before they moved to 12. Then again, you probably won't lock WBBM-DT with the 8200P, but then again...near the lake, you have a better than average chance. Especially since the signal is going over some interference-free water...

As for an installer in SE WI, can't help you there, sorry. Installers typically charge $300 for basic installs, $500+ if you mounted it on the roof.

Gilbert
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post #737 of 12099 Old 08-21-2007, 10:33 PM
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They show the Packer games on their ABC affiliate in Milwaukee?

Darn - that's the one channel I have the hardest time getting from there. Why can't they show them on WITI? I get that in pretty regularly.

Hopefully, WQRF will show some, because that just blasts in. Not that I'm a Packer fan or anything, but it would be nice to have some more games to watch, especially if they're in HD.

I've been catching the occasional MLB game from Mil. this summer.
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post #738 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

They show the Packer games on their ABC affiliate in Milwaukee?

Darn - that's the one channel I have the hardest time getting from there. Why can't they show them on WITI? I get that in pretty regularly.

Hopefully, WQRF will show some, because that just blasts in. Not that I'm a Packer fan or anything, but it would be nice to have some more games to watch, especially if they're in HD.

I've been catching the occasional MLB game from Mil. this summer.

of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

Tom
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post #739 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Hi Tom,

Yeah, WGN-DT is not great north and northwest of the Chicago metro because of interference from WMTV-DT in Madison broadcasting on the same channel (19).

WBBM isn't moving until after February 2009. To get them and WLS,
you'd need a VERY big VHF/UHF combo antenna. The Winegard 8200P is what you'd need to get 7 and 12 reliably:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

To ship it, it's like $100+! It's cheaper for you to get a pickup truck or rent a big van and get it. 177.5" long, or over 11' . Keep that in mind; I bet your landlord wouldn't like that.

If not, then the 4228 can pick up VHF OK, but you'd probably need a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp to get what you'd want. And it wouldn't get WBBM before they moved to 12. Then again, you probably won't lock WBBM-DT with the 8200P, but then again...near the lake, you have a better than average chance. Especially since the signal is going over some interference-free water...

As for an installer in SE WI, can't help you there, sorry. Installers typically charge $300 for basic installs, $500+ if you mounted it on the roof.

about my landlord and that big of an antenna. Just to clarify though. I'm not currently looking to get WBBM. But I would like to put up something now that stands a good chance of pulling those two VHF stations in after the shutdown. I've read in someplaces that the 4228 can do VHF (7-13) but I wasn't sure how effective it would be at 60 miles. I wasn't really looking to pull in those initially until I read about the changes after the shutdown. The 4228 preamp combo has been my plan since last summer and if you think that I have a decent chance of pulling those stations in with it then great. If another much larger of an antenna is necessary to pull in those VHF stations then I could probably make due without them. WGN and WFLD are two most important channels for me. WBBM usually only has 1 or 2 Bears games anyway. Thanks.

Tom
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post #740 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

Tom

Tom,

True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.

As for channels 7 and 12, with a preamp, I think you have a decent shot on top of an apartment, outdoors. The 4228 has anywhere from 4-10 dB gain on the VHF-HI band, so with the antenna up high and that preamp, I say you have a decent shot of getting it. You're within (just barely) line of sight.

Gilbert
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post #741 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
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of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

Tom

Alright!!

(Who needs Direct's over-compressed, over-priced Sunday Ticket when you've got all these network games in HD for free ?!)
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True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.

Hmmm, finally getting around to putting up the HD8200P on the roof. I'll have to turn it towards Milwaukee to see if I can pick anything up before I point it back to Chicago.

Out of curiosity, do you think an HD9095P would have a better chance of pulling something in that far away? Or am I way out of range?

Andy

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This reminds me of when I once asked the Tri-State guy if I could get Milwaukee stations in Arlington Heights. I don't think he took me seriously at first, but then his response was that it wouldn't be possible due to sheer distance. The more I think about it, he was probably right. When I was much younger and people still used outdoor TV antennas in abundance, I knew of some area residents who got analog reception on 4, 6, 10 and 12 from up North. However, fast forward 20+ years, and you realize that in order to get the Milwaukee signals, you not only have to overcome 70 miles of distance, but you also have to compensate for the ground clutter which probably didn't exist back then. A VHF signal might still make the trip, but I doubt you'll get UHF to go that far unless you're experiencing tropo.

If you can pull off watchable Milwaukee DT reception in Streamwood, please let us know.
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post #744 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 07:33 PM
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Tom,

True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.

As for channels 7 and 12, with a preamp, I think you have a decent shot on top of an apartment, outdoors. The 4228 has anywhere from 4-10 dB gain on the VHF-HI band, so with the antenna up high and that preamp, I say you have a decent shot of getting it. You're within (just barely) line of sight.

Looking at the Packers schedule, they have 2 games on WDJT and the rest that aren't in primetime are on WITI. Unless that late season flex scheduling moves them to primetime. The only time they might have a game on ABC would be a preseason game. You'd probably get a better answer from a Packer fan though.

Any idea on what would be a good height to get that 4228 up to? I do believe I have a pretty clear line of sight in that direction.

Tom
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Hmmm, finally getting around to putting up the HD8200P on the roof. I'll have to turn it towards Milwaukee to see if I can pick anything up before I point it back to Chicago.

Out of curiosity, do you think an HD9095P would have a better chance of pulling something in that far away? Or am I way out of range?

Hi Andy,

The 9095P doesn't have the greatest reflector, so I say no. However, I can tell all of you this: WMVS-DT channel 8.1 (resolves to 10.1-6) is a blowtorch.
Even in winter in DeKalb with no tropo, I can see low amounts signal from it from a VU-90 antenna. I know that on certain tall buildings in Chicago, WMVS-DT comes in with rabbit ears and pegs the signal meter!

When you crank out that much power on VHF, and 1 mw on UHF, it's all about height. Distance with 1 mw, line of sight, is hundreds of miles
if your antenna is high enough, of course. Out in the Rockies, some of the stations go 200+ miles from mountaintops in Idaho. In L.A., line of sight in some directions is 120 miles from Mt. Wilson.

Gilbert
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post #746 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at the Packers schedule, they have 2 games on WDJT and the rest that aren't in primetime are on WITI. Unless that late season flex scheduling moves them to primetime. The only time they might have a game on ABC would be a preseason game. You'd probably get a better answer from a Packer fan though.

Any idea on what would be a good height to get that 4228 up to? I do believe I have a pretty clear line of sight in that direction.

Tom

To receive Chicago in Kenosha, 30' is sufficient. Maybe less...if you are line-of-sight, give it a try at however high you can get it. When the FCC and TV stations do their signal strength calculations, it's always based on the antenna being outdoors at 30' up, with the "proper size".

Gilbert
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post #747 of 12099 Old 08-22-2007, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by longwong View Post

This reminds me of when I once asked the Tri-State guy if I could get Milwaukee stations in Arlington Heights. I don't think he took me seriously at first, but then his response was that it wouldn't be possible due to sheer distance. The more I think about it, he was probably right. When I was much younger and people still used outdoor TV antennas in abundance, I knew of some area residents who got analog reception on 4, 6, 10 and 12 from up North. However, fast forward 20+ years, and you realize that in order to get the Milwaukee signals, you not only have to overcome 70 miles of distance, but you also have to compensate for the ground clutter which probably didn't exist back then. A VHF signal might still make the trip, but I doubt you'll get UHF to go that far unless you're experiencing tropo.

Long,

I can say this. Ground clutter is not really the problem. People put up either inadequate antennas, lead-in cable, make poor connections or use poor connectors, or point the antenna incorrectly. If any one of these is bad,
you're toast. I've been doing this now for 4 years, and I've learned that the connectors are killer. Mess that up, and you can have a 4228 on top of a 300' tower, but you won't get much or anything.

I practiced in my attic on how to do connections right, find what connectors work best, what cable does...and when/why to use what. One of the antennas I recommended to a friend in Hoffman Estates was the Winegard HD 8200P. He can lock WTVO with no tropo off the side with a 4th gen tuner, while pointing at Chicago. He locks WBBM-DT easily(!).

I don't think it's much more difficult on UHF. In fact, with digital, the signal is roughly 18 dB cleaner. I was told when I first jumped on AVS that DX'ing or even 70 mile reception wasn't possible. I was getting WCIU-DT at 15 kw exactly 60 miles away from the transmitter (measured via GPS), low near a river valley, with channel 27 in Madison interfering from time to time. People got 2.3 kw WQRF-DT (at the time, at that low power) 40 miles out. And I could lock it on a roof 60' up in Crystal Lake, 50 miles out!

Once you get above 400 kilowatts on UHF, it's all about the height of the antenna: yours and the station. Assuming yours is decent. The fact that someone who has done it right in Dundee can lock them should being hope to some of you that it is possible.

Gilbert
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post #748 of 12099 Old 08-23-2007, 05:04 AM
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.

Here's a question Gilbert...

Do you think an antenna installation service would be a money-maker in the NE IL, SE WI area?

I'm thinking of branching out from the Cable/IT field.

I'm not sure how I could market a service like that either. I'm fairly certain that I couldn't do it on here.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Randy
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post #749 of 12099 Old 08-23-2007, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a question Gilbert...

Do you think an antenna installation service would be a money-maker in the NE IL, SE WI area?

I'm thinking of branching out from the Cable/IT field.

I'm not sure how I could market a service like that either. I'm fairly certain that I couldn't do it on here.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Randy

Bink,

Not full time. Almost every company that used to do it has gone under. I do it occasionally as people ask, but I definitely couldn't make a living off of it.
It does help the bottom line some, and it's fun for me and my helper to do.

Gilbert
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post #750 of 12099 Old 08-23-2007, 09:49 AM
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However, I can tell all of you this: WMVS-DT channel 8.1 (resolves to 10.1-6) is a blowtorch.
Even in winter in DeKalb with no tropo, I can see low amounts signal from it from a VU-90 antenna. I know that on certain tall buildings in Chicago, WMVS-DT comes in with rabbit ears and pegs the signal meter!

Hmm, maybe there's hope. In my old townhouse I had a 7084 in the attic pointed at Chicago and my TV did lock in 10.1 during a scan, but not enough signal for a picture.

Andy

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