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post #12121 of 12184 Old 08-12-2014, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
There is no null in the direction of Champaign. WBBM-26 is, in fact, at almost maximum power in that direction.

WBBM's license is for 15 kW on RF 26, which is the maximum legal limit for a UHF digital translator. Because of the adjacent markets, WBBM could only operate as a translator on RF 26 as a "full-power" station would have interfered and the other stations already enjoyed legal interference protection.
Call it what you want, but there is in fact a null in that direction, but it's a soft null. The only reason isn't furthered nulled in that direction, is because they're operating the translator on top of the former WXRT studios, rather than on the Sears Tower, as originally planned. If they would have operated on the Sears Tower, the signal would be strong enough for me to receive, but would be nulled in my direction. I stand by my word on that one..
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post #12122 of 12184 Old 08-12-2014, 03:35 AM
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but there is in fact a null in that direction, but it's a soft null.
What the heck is a "soft" null?

Here's the antenna pattern for WBBM-26 from the FCC records:

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/po...60&p360=0.054&

See any null in the direction of Champaign? ...or Gary, IN?
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post #12123 of 12184 Old 08-13-2014, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
What the heck is a "soft" null?

Here's the antenna pattern for WBBM-26 from the FCC records:

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/po...60&p360=0.054&

See any null in the direction of Champaign? ...or Gary, IN?
Yes I do. I stand by my word that WBBM-TV must protect WCCU as well.
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post #12124 of 12184 Old 08-13-2014, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dave73 View Post
Yes I do. I stand by my word that WBBM-TV must protect WCCU as well.
The discussion isn't about the non-interference requirement (that's in the rules), but how it's met. Your claim that there is a null is not supported by the data for the facility license.

WBBM's translator cannot interfere with WCCU's full power signal inside WCCU's protected contour, but they (WBBM) do not use a null in their transmit pattern to achieve that requirement. Even with their full licensed power in that direction, the signal isn't calculated to reach Kankakee and WCCU's protected contour lies about 15 miles south of Kankakee.

Like I said, no null in that direction.
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post #12125 of 12184 Old 08-13-2014, 07:10 PM
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Is WBBM's translator the closest Ch. 26 transmitter to WCCU? I ask because, especially in the middle of the summer, WCCU sometimes gets interfered with by something, not necessarily a Ch. 26 signal, it's possibly co-channel or some form of TVI. I'm well within the protected contour, but, since you guys brought it up, I thought I'd throw it out there.
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post #12126 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
The discussion isn't about the non-interference requirement (that's in the rules), but how it's met. Your claim that there is a null is not supported by the data for the facility license.

WBBM's translator cannot interfere with WCCU's full power signal inside WCCU's protected contour, but they (WBBM) do not use a null in their transmit pattern to achieve that requirement. Even with their full licensed power in that direction, the signal isn't calculated to reach Kankakee and WCCU's protected contour lies about 15 miles south of Kankakee.

Like I said, no null in that direction.
Looking at the chart, it's doesn't completely touch the bottom. Looking at the numbers for the nulls, it to me is a null. You will not convince me otherwise. The only reason it's less likely to reach Kankakee, is because the translator is on a short tower (it barely reaches Hammond, & it's a weak signal by the time the signal makes it there). If it had been allowed to be on the Sears Tower, the signal would have gotten out much further, & likely reach Kankakee. There have been people on this board who have mentioned about other LPTV stations reaching Kankakee County from Chicago on a regular basis. If the original application hadn't been denied, the signal would have broadcast off the Sears Tower, & reach the south suburbs much more than the current signal does, including making it into Indiana, & probably Kankakee.
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post #12127 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ;
Looking at the numbers for the nulls, it to me is a null.
Seriously? The azimuth from WBBM-26 to WCCU is 184°. That puts the relative field value between .998 and 1.000. Interpolating to a value of .999, that calculates to 99.8 % of the maximum ERP is radiated in WCCU's direction by WBBM's RF26 antenna. That's not a null, its a rounding error in the antenna modelling. The nulls are focused at 10 and 330 with relative field values around .051 (2.6% ERP).
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Last edited by ProjectSHO89; 08-14-2014 at 05:26 AM.
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post #12128 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kc9hzn View Post
Is WBBM's translator the closest Ch. 26 transmitter to WCCU? I ask because, especially in the middle of the summer, WCCU sometimes gets interfered with by something, not necessarily a Ch. 26 signal, it's possibly co-channel or some form of TVI. I'm well within the protected contour, but, since you guys brought it up, I thought I'd throw it out there.

I did a 300 km radius search centered on WCCU's location for all records for RF 26. Here are the results (sorry, formatting of the table will be screwed up, you can click on the link to generate an original)http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tv...slon2=0&size=9


Search Parameters Search radius: 300.00 km Center lat / lon: N 40 18 46.00 W 87 55 0.00 Lower Channel: 26 Upper Channel: 26
Call Channel Service Status City State Country File Number Docket FacilityID ERP HAAT Dist(km) Dist(mi) Azimuth(°) Licensee/Permittee WCCU 26 DT LIC URBANA IL US BLCDT-20050317ADS - 69544 507. kW 114. m 0.00 km 0.00 mi 0.00° GOCOM MEDIA OF ILLINOIS, LLC
WRDH-LP 26 LD CP HOLCOMB IL US BDCCDTL-20061030ANL - 168837 1. kW 0. m 215.89 km 134.15 mi 330.51° CHN MEDIA, L.L.C.

W26DZ-D 26 LD CP CHAMPAIGN IL US BNPDTL-20100219ABT - 184764 5. kW 0. m 155.86 km 96.85 mi 201.29° DTV AMERICA II, LLC
W26DY-D 26 LD CP MOD PEORIA IL US BMPDTL-20110502ADY - 185325 15. kW 0. m 142.77 km 88.71 mi 285.46° LEROY G. HAGENBUCH
WBBM-TV 26 LD LIC CHICAGO IL US BLCDT-20140305ABH - 9617 15. kW 0. m 181.06 km 112.50 mi 4.33° CBS BROADCASTING INC.

DWMUN-LP 26 LD APP MUNCIE IN US BDFCDTL-20080818ABA - 22860 3.56 kW 0. m 209.01 km 129.87 mi 95.36° FULL GOSPEL FELLOWSHIP, MUNCIE IND.
NEW 26 LD APP EVANSVILLE IN US BNPDTL-20090825BAA - 181944 3. kW 0. m 258.59 km 160.68 mi 169.18° DTV AMERICA 1, LLC

NEW 26 LD APP EVANSVILLE IN US BNPDTL-20090825AZW - 182606 15. kW 0. m 271.11 km 168.46 mi 173.07° ALMA CORPORATION

W26DH-D 26 LD LIC AUBURN IN US BLDTL-20091005ABQ - 168575 6. kW 0. m 266.92 km 165.86 mi 63.85° THE RAYMOND S. AND DOROTHY N. MOORE FOUNDATION, INC.

NEW 26 LD APP FORT WAYNE IN US BNPDTL-20091026ADP - 183649 3. kW 0. m 260.26 km 161.72 mi 72.51° LUCKLAND CORP
NEW 26 LD APP EVANSVILLE IN US BNPDTL-20090825BAA - 181944 3. kW 0. m 258.59 km 160.68 mi 169.18° DTV AMERICA 1, LLC WLKY 26 DT LIC LOUISVILLE KY US BLCDT-20030129AFL - 53939 600. kW 392. m 280.96 km 174.58 mi 139.63° WLKY HEARST
W26BX-D 26 LD LIC KALAMAZOO MI US BLDTL-20091210ADC - 67780 15. kW 0. m 295.61 km 183.68 mi 46.02° TCT OF MICHIGAN, INC.
KPLR-TV 26 DT LIC ST. LOUIS MO US BLCDT-20030812ABY - 35417 1000. kW 288. m 283.33 km 176.05 mi 227.69° KPLR, INC.

*** 14 TV Records within 300.00 km distance of 40° 18' 46.00" N, 87° 55' 0.00 " W ***


Keep in mind that just because a record exists, it doesn't mean that the facility is actually on the air.

Last edited by ProjectSHO89; 08-14-2014 at 05:22 AM.
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post #12129 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Meanwhile, the west antenna is coming down off the Hancock building. I don't know why. I do know this: one of the tower climbers doing the work has
a GoPro camera. And access to YouTube. Watch if you dare...



Gilbert
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post #12130 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
I did a 300 km radius search centered on WCCU's location for all records for RF 26. Here are the results (sorry, formatting of the table will be screwed up, you can click on the link to generate an original)http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tv...slon2=0&size=9





Keep in mind that just because a record exists, it doesn't mean that the facility is actually on the air.
Right, I noticed several were applications pending and construction permits. It looks like WBBM's translator is in fact the nearest Ch 26, but I checked on TVFool and found adjacent channel stations on Ch 25 (WRTV) and Ch 27 (WIPX) in Indy. Those are more likely candidates, especially WRTV.
Interesting question: why the heck did the FCC grant a construction permit to a low power digital station on RF 26 in Champaign, IL?
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post #12131 of 12184 Old 08-14-2014, 10:15 AM
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Interesting question: why the heck did the FCC grant a construction permit to a low power digital station on RF 26 in Champaign, IL?
The location of the permit isn't for Champaign, it's for a location south of Effingham, near Watson.

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post #12132 of 12184 Old 08-17-2014, 04:21 AM
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That's better, but even then, the Ch 26 CP might still need to put in a null. Or maybe not, it looks like WCCU's 41 dBu service contour doesn't reach as far south as Charleston.
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post #12133 of 12184 Old 08-18-2014, 05:10 PM
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welcome to GRIT tv on 66.3

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comments, critsisms and questions of sanity are always welcome
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post #12134 of 12184 Old 08-18-2014, 06:26 PM
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Grit TV is just like Movies 50.2 and Get TV 66.2 they play old movies! Escape will launch tuesday 60.2? Not sure it there keeping SD 60.2 feed
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post #12135 of 12184 Old 08-19-2014, 07:46 AM
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I went to see if Escape was on 60.2 or 60.3, & my TV locked up on 60.1, like it did with WYCC a couple of months back. If they're adjusting the bandwidth on 60.1 to add 60.3, then why is it locking up my TV? The light on the TV blinks, then the message on the TV says "Please Wait" when it gets turned on (only it's already on), goes to 60.1, then stays blank. It'll act like it's turning off, then turn back on (only with WYCC, it just locked on 20.1 - 20.3, depending on what channel I entered a couple of months back). Unplugging the TV does not resolve this problem at all, as I tried it for as long as a half hour.
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post #12136 of 12184 Old 08-19-2014, 09:01 AM
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I'm receiving Escape on 60.3 -- WXFT-SD continues to be transmitted as 60.2 -- but the aspect ratios are terrible.  Maybe it's just this one movie.

Grit TV is coming in on 66.3 except that the tuner of one of our sets won't accept it.
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post #12137 of 12184 Old 08-21-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave73 View Post
I went to see if Escape was on 60.2 or 60.3, & my TV locked up on 60.1, like it did with WYCC a couple of months back. If they're adjusting the bandwidth on 60.1 to add 60.3, then why is it locking up my TV? The light on the TV blinks, then the message on the TV says "Please Wait" when it gets turned on (only it's already on), goes to 60.1, then stays blank. It'll act like it's turning off, then turn back on (only with WYCC, it just locked on 20.1 - 20.3, depending on what channel I entered a couple of months back). Unplugging the TV does not resolve this problem at all, as I tried it for as long as a half hour.
Are you saying your TV is now locked up?

If so, try unplugging the antenna connection and then turn the tv on. Many early stand alone tuners did this.
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post #12138 of 12184 Old 08-21-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dicko2 View Post
Are you saying your TV is now locked up?

If so, try unplugging the antenna connection and then turn the tv on. Many early stand alone tuners did this.
I eventually did that, & I got it to get off of 60.1. Thing is that my HDTV is only 2 years old, and Insignia 26" 1080p TV. I don't know the model number at this time, but it's an ok TV for now. The problem that was going on was something Univision was doing with getting the new subchannel set up, & adjust the bandwidth for RF 50 (even so, it should not have locked up my TV). When it happened with WYCC, it was something related to their equipment (possibly hardware related) that caused the station to lock up on their channels (at least you could watch 20.1 - 20.3).
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post #12139 of 12184 Old 08-25-2014, 05:18 PM
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Wow... lots of posts here!

I'm looking to go OTA and need advice on an attic-based antenna. I'm 28 miles from the main Chicago stations.

My location: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f38f5d87df3

I have played with an indoor Terk HDTV antenna in the past and have left it resting on rafters in my attic for years, and with the powered signal boost on I get most channels but some are occasionally too weak to be reliable. I'm guessing the location is about 25 feet above ground, and if the little Terk is almost up to the task I figure a larger, better unit would get all the Chicago stations.

Years ago when I did some research I bookmarked a Winegard model on Amazon that I saw was recommended somewhere, but it's no longer being carried and I assume there are other options now.

What's recommended? It would be great if I could also connect my AV receiver to the antenna to pick up local radio stations...

Finally, if I mount the antenna to a rafter in my attic, do I need to worry about grounding it or anything like that?

Thanks in advance!
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post #12140 of 12184 Old 08-26-2014, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menagh View Post
Wow... lots of posts here!

I'm looking to go OTA and need advice on an attic-based antenna. I'm 28 miles from the main Chicago stations.

My location: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f38f5d87df3

I have played with an indoor Terk HDTV antenna in the past and have left it resting on rafters in my attic for years, and with the powered signal boost on I get most channels but some are occasionally too weak to be reliable. I'm guessing the location is about 25 feet above ground, and if the little Terk is almost up to the task I figure a larger, better unit would get all the Chicago stations.

Years ago when I did some research I bookmarked a Winegard model on Amazon that I saw was recommended somewhere, but it's no longer being carried and I assume there are other options now.

What's recommended? It would be great if I could also connect my AV receiver to the antenna to pick up local radio stations...

Finally, if I mount the antenna to a rafter in my attic, do I need to worry about grounding it or anything like that?

Thanks in advance!

If you're only wanting Chicago stations, then here's a few recommendations: Winegard HD7694 & Antennacraft HBU33. Those 2 are good as long as WOCK-CD on RF 4 is not important. I don't know if you speak Spanish or Korean, as Mundo Fox is on the main channel in 720p HD (simulcasted on WPWR-TV 50.3 in 16x9 SD), & KBC on 13.2. The channel could be of importance if you think you might like Veria Living on 13.3 (a lifestyle channel), The Cool TV (music videos), & Soul of the South (programming aimed primarily at the black viewers), & those other 3 subchannels are in English. If you think you might want to try & get The Cool TV, then the Antennacraft HD850, or the HD1200, or the Winegard HD7084 antennas would be good choices (I recommend larger antennas for Class A digital stations, so that you have as much gain as possible for a weak VHF station). If you think you might be interested in getting Rockford's 4 stations, then if you have the room in your attic, & want to get a rotator, then you'll need a deep fringe combo antenna, along with a pre-amp (you'll definitely need one if you decide on an all channel combo antenna for WOCK-CD). If you want your antennas separate, & just use an A/B switch, use a deep fringe Antennacraft HBU44 or 55, or the Winegard HD7697 or HD7698 antennas for Rockford (they have no Low band VHF), & either a separate all channel combo antenna, or a VHF-Hi/UHF antenna for Chicago (depending on how much you want WOCK-CD). As long it's just Chicago stations, you can get by with a medium size antenna. If you want Rockford stations too, then a deep fringe antenna is needed. If using the same antenna for both markets, then a pre-amp, if needed, rotator (if your attic is wide enough to handle rotating in the attic), along with a deep fringe antenna.
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post #12141 of 12184 Old 08-26-2014, 08:23 PM
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Thank you Dave73 - there's a ton of good information there!

I'm tempted to get the Winegard HD7694 partly based on price and availability on Amazon. It would get the primary networks, which is my main goal. But if I got the larger Winegard HD7084 it could give me options down the road.

I'm guessing I would need to add a splitter to branch between the TV and my A/V Receiver if I wanted to pick up FM stations - I assume these antennas would work fine with that as well? Any guidance on a splitter?

Thanks again!
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post #12142 of 12184 Old 08-27-2014, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menagh View Post
Thank you Dave73 - there's a ton of good information there!

I'm tempted to get the Winegard HD7694 partly based on price and availability on Amazon. It would get the primary networks, which is my main goal. But if I got the larger Winegard HD7084 it could give me options down the road.

I'm guessing I would need to add a splitter to branch between the TV and my A/V Receiver if I wanted to pick up FM stations - I assume these antennas would work fine with that as well? Any guidance on a splitter?

Thanks again!
It looks like you're mainly interested in Chicago stations, & not so much for WOCK-CD. I say go with the Winegard HD7694. If you're interested in using the same antenna for FM stations, more than likely, that same antenna will have no trouble picking up analog FM radio stations (I don't know about HD radio stations, if it acts like digital TV stations, where the antenna must be optimized for the frequencies you want to pick up). Before I hooked up my old Philips antenna to my TV set in 2009, I was using an Omni-directional antenna, & had no problems picking up my analog radio stations, nor did I have problems with analog VHF (picture was sometimes fuzzy, but got a picture). That Omni-directional antenna however did not work for digital VHF at all, & only got select digital UHF stations. I don't know what brand Omni-directional antenna it was, but I only know it was made for semi-trucks, as I bought it from Pilot Travel Center in 2005. At least the Winegard HD7694 will help you get WBBM-TV on RF 12. If insist on using the same antenna for FM radio, & might use digital HD radio, then I say the Antennacraft Colorstar C290 would be a good size for FM radio48.
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post #12143 of 12184 Old 08-27-2014, 08:32 AM
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HD Radio is IBOC (in band, on channel), so there's no such thing as a specifically HD antenna. 88.1 MHz (or 530 kHz, for that matter) is just as likely as 107.9 MHz (or 1700 kHz) to have an HD subchannel. That said, you do want an antenna optimized for the FM (or AM) spectrum, just like you would for any chunk of spectrum.
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post #12144 of 12184 Old 08-27-2014, 04:50 PM
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HD radio is very finicky, and getting some stations to lock will be trickier than getting the best possible TV reception. The slightest rotation of the antenna may make or break the HD portion of the signal. If you want to use a combined antenna to get the HD radio stations on FM, it will need to receive channels below 7. Also, beware of conventional signal splitters which have a tendency to kill much of the HD radio signal. (Several years back, Winegard used to sell a dedicated splitter which siphoned off the FM like a charm, but it seems to have been discontinued.)
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post #12145 of 12184 Old 09-08-2014, 05:03 PM
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WFLD has now officially removed the Simpsons entirely from the schedule and replaced it stupid celebrity shows and the big bang theory which already airs on numerous channels. In addition to that WPWR has also moved the Simpsons to a timeslot in which I can't watch them at and removed the Saturday marathon and replaced that with stupid shows as well. Not everyone can afford cable to watch it on FXX . Why would they do something stupid like this?
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post #12146 of 12184 Old 09-08-2014, 05:39 PM
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WFLD has now officially removed the Simpsons entirely from the schedule and replaced it stupid celebrity shows and the big bang theory which already airs on numerous channels. In addition to that WPWR has also moved the Simpsons to a timeslot in which I can't watch them at and removed the Saturday marathon and replaced that with stupid shows as well. Not everyone can afford cable to watch it on FXX . Why would they do something stupid like this?
I don't think it was WFLD's choice; I think the FOX mothership yanked the show for to feed FXX.

Flicks? Here's my collection. And I've seen a lot, too.
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post #12147 of 12184 Old 09-08-2014, 06:54 PM
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does anyone think WMEU Channel 48 will become a full power tv station so they way they will be carried on dish network from chicago?

Thanks

Allen bluegras
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post #12148 of 12184 Old 09-08-2014, 07:26 PM
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does anyone think WMEU Channel 48 will become a full power tv station so they way they will be carried on dish network from chicago?

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Allen bluegras
For the 12th time

NO

Reread the thread. You've asked the SAME THING before and the answer aint gonna change

-once your a low powered station its not that easy to "upgrade"
-they cant due to the CW in Madison/Janesville being on RF32 (the SAME channel as WMEU)
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post #12149 of 12184 Old 09-08-2014, 08:11 PM
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i wanted to ask you guys what is the best indoor antenna you can get from radio shack or best buy something i can put on my dresser to get the peoria,chicago stations or futher i want to hook it up to the dish hopper dvr.if you can help me out i appreciate it very much.

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Allen bluegras
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post #12150 of 12184 Old 09-09-2014, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bluegras View Post
does anyone think WMEU Channel 48 will become a full power tv station so they way they will be carried on dish network from chicago?

Thanks

Allen bluegras
No one cares about that crap station what we need is 1) the Simpsons back in syndication on DTV and 2) TheCoolTV on a full power station. 3) More channels in 16:9, 4) less of these dumb movie channels.
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