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post #121 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Three low power stations in Chicago, along with a new applicant, were vying for channel 49 as a DTV low power station:

WCHU-LP (Off the air, was on channel 55 as infomercials/independent station being simulcast from Los Angeles)
A new application
WBKM-LP (home shopping on channel 46)
WOCH-LP (Korean broadcasts on channel 41)

The FCC today awarded WCHU-LD to channel 49. Additionally...the FCC awarded a construction permit for WLFM-LP to go to channel 6 as analog. So, when WCHU-LD signs on, they should be channel 55-1. I have no clue when analog 6 will sign on, but it should be quick. So, the other three will have to re-apply for new channels.

I updated my master station list:

http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

AND I updated page 2 to reflect the changes. So Ramm will have to wait longer for his favorite LPDTV station to sign on.

Now...start taking bets on where the others will wind up and apply for. PURE SPECULATION FOLLOWS: Channels 4, 8, 16, 25...but that's about it, folks! The other low-powers and full powers have taken the rest...

Gilbert
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post #122 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

So Ramm will have to wait longer for his favorite LPDTV station to sign on

They'll probably be at such low power I won't be able to get them anyway .

Any idea where they transmit from?
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post #123 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

They'll probably be at such low power I won't be able to get them anyway .

Any idea where they transmit from?

Hancock.

Gilbert
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post #124 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

I updated my master station list:

http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

Thanks Gilbert for the updates. As tech director at a church in Crystal Lake, I keep an updated spreadsheet of all the area frequencies that could affect our wireless mics. It's very crowded and come 2/09 things are going to be very crazy. Fortunately, Shure, Sennheiser, and Lectrosonics are starting to meet with Congress.

For those of you who are confused, part of the 2/09 plan will open up the vacated analog frequencies for use by manufacturers of other wireless devices (at a steep price of course). The problem with this is that this is where all of the wireless mics reside. So all of the churches, theaters, TV shows, movies, sporting events, etc will be affected. It looks like progress is being made, but it's hard when you're lobbying against Microsoft, Intel, Verizon, etc.


tim
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post #125 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Between 7:50 PM and 8:10 PM-ish, American Idol had some very serious problems that also happened on analog to a point. I don't know what went wrong, but at one time, the test "FOX" logo started flashing on the screen on the HD side of things. My boss, who just got an HD and has Comcast, called me in a huff to let me know.

WFLD-DT has had some significant problems with its HD lately, with the NASCAR race last week in standard def. Hope they fixed the problem for good this time.
(No other reports from other markets, so I am guessing it was Chicago only).

Gilbert
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post #126 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Between 7:50 PM and 8:10 PM-ish, American Idol had some very serious problems that also happened on analog to a point. I don't know what happened, but at one point, the test flashing "FOX" logo started flashing on the screen on the HD side of things. My boss, who just got an HD and has Comcast, called me in a huff to let me know.

WFLD-DT has had some significant problems with its HD lately, with the NASCAR race last week in standard def. Hope they fixed the problem for good this time.
(No other reports from other markets, so I am guessing it was Chicago only).

Yeah I caught that too on HD.

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post #127 of 12184 Old 03-20-2007, 07:27 PM
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After more than a year of trials I managed to get a good steady feed from channel 2.1 utilizing a small $52 Terk TV5 amplified antenna.
I am located in Norridge, 3rd floor.

HD: TOSHIBA HD-A2
TV: PHILIPS 50PF9731
SACD: SONY AVD-S50ES
DAP: PHILIPS Streamium SL-400 (LOSSLESS)
MEDIA SERVER: TwonkyMedia/Buffalo Linkstation
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post #128 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Between 7:50 PM and 8:10 PM-ish, American Idol had some very serious problems that also happened on analog to a point. I don't know what went wrong, but at one time, the test "FOX" logo started flashing on the screen on the HD side of things. My boss, who just got an HD and has Comcast, called me in a huff to let me know.

WFLD-DT has had some significant problems with its HD lately, with the NASCAR race last week in standard def. Hope they fixed the problem for good this time.
(No other reports from other markets, so I am guessing it was Chicago only).

On the 9pm Fox news later that night they claimed it was due to helicopters covering some story that ended up blocking the signal. They re-aired the missed segment (in SD).
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post #129 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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The FCC today officially approved a bunch of low-power digital channels, giving the stations construction permits.

Weigel Broadcastings' 3 stations in South Bend, two in Milwaukee, and one in Rockford all got the nod in this batch. In the Chicago area, the following were approved:

WWME-LD 39 (23.1)- MeTV
WOCK-LD 12 (13.1)- Azteca America
W22DG-LD, Aurora 22 (22.1)-Translator to WSPY-LD 18 (30.1), Plano (America One)

Not on the list was the new one on channel 33, and WFBT-LD on channel 46, still in application status.

I updated the links on the second post. I have no idea when these will sign on.
Given that they are digital companion channels, it should be anytime between today and February, 2009.

I heard from WSPY last fall that they want to go digital "as soon as possible"; with both their applications approved for construction permits, we'll see how long it takes now. They can possibly diplex off the same antenna for their soon-to-be digital channel 18, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Gilbert
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post #130 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

The FCC today officially approved a bunch of low-power digital channels, giving the stations construction permits.

Weigel Broadcastings' 3 stations in South Bend, two in Milwaukee, and one in Rockford all got the nod in this batch. In the Chicago area, the following were approved:

WWME-LD 39 (23.1)- MeTV
WOCK-LD 12 (13.1)- Azteca America
W22DG-LD, Aurora 22 (22.1)-Translator to WSPY-LD 18 (30.1), Plano (America One)

Not on the list was the new one on channel 33, and WFBT-LD on channel 46, still in application status.

I updated the links on the second post. I have no idea when these will sign on.
Given that they are digital companion channels, it should be anytime between today and February, 2009.

I heard from WSPY last fall that they want to go digital "as soon as possible"; with both their applications approved for construction permits, we'll see how long it takes now. They can possibly diplex off the same antenna for their soon-to-be digital channel 18, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Let the games begin.

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post #131 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 05:18 PM
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Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?

Nathan J. Bloch
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post #132 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (l)user View Post

After more than a year of trials I managed to get a good steady feed from channel 2.1 utilizing a small $52 Terk TV5 amplified antenna.
I am located in Norridge, 3rd floor.

No comments? I spent a year trying different (indoor) antennas and finally gave up. Then bought a new TV and then a new antenna just for that (50in plasma) and... eureka! Here it is: CBS in all its glory....

Can anyone try this small indoor antenna (Terk TV-5) and let me know if I just got lucky or is this thing is really good at pulling VHF?

HD: TOSHIBA HD-A2
TV: PHILIPS 50PF9731
SACD: SONY AVD-S50ES
DAP: PHILIPS Streamium SL-400 (LOSSLESS)
MEDIA SERVER: TwonkyMedia/Buffalo Linkstation
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post #133 of 12184 Old 03-21-2007, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natebomb503 View Post

Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?

Yeah. I put on Conan O'Brien just a little while ago and there was no sound.

I hadn't watched 5-1 at all today before that, though.
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post #134 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natebomb503 View Post

Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?

Tried to watch (OTA) the evening news at 5:30, no audio on 5.1 but 5.2 was fine. Came back about 7 PM and still no audio on 5.1 but again 5.2 had audio.

NBC isn't ready for primetime with their HD broadcasts.
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post #135 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (l)user View Post

No comments? I spent a year trying different (indoor) antennas and finally gave up. Then bought a new TV and then a new antenna just for that (50in plasma) and... eureka! Here it is: CBS in all its glory....

Can anyone try this small indoor antenna (Terk TV-5) and let me know if I just got lucky or is this thing is really good at pulling VHF?

Hi (l)user,

You got lucky. Usually, terks have trouble even picking up local UHF DTV stations, so on this one, chalk it up to being at the right place at the right time.

However, we will ask you to mount a 300' microwave tower next to your house so you can beam the signal to the rest of us!

Gilbert
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post #136 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timdgibson View Post

Thanks Gilbert for the updates. As tech director at a church in Crystal Lake, I keep an updated spreadsheet of all the area frequencies that could affect our wireless mics. It's very crowded and come 2/09 things are going to be very crazy. Fortunately, Shure, Sennheiser, and Lectrosonics are starting to meet with Congress.

For those of you who are confused, part of the 2/09 plan will open up the vacated analog frequencies for use by manufacturers of other wireless devices (at a steep price of course). The problem with this is that this is where all of the wireless mics reside. So all of the churches, theaters, TV shows, movies, sporting events, etc will be affected. It looks like progress is being made, but it's hard when you're lobbying against Microsoft, Intel, Verizon, etc.

tim

You are welcome and yep, and I see the "white space" that a few politicians have proposed to ram through Congress. I wouldn't use channel 55, that's for sure. But they are already "on the air" in Chicago on that channel, so you probably know that. I am still waiting to hear when WYIN-TV 56 signs off; watching the
FCC Daily Digest for that one.

Gilbert
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post #137 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Hi (l)user,

You got lucky. Usually, terks have trouble even picking up local UHF DTV stations, so on this one, chalk it up to being at the right place at the right time.

However, we will ask you to mount a 300' microwave tower next to your house so you can beam the signal to the rest of us!


No problem, I'll start digging tonight... I do suggest however trying that TV-5 Terk antenna, preferably from Best Buy or any other place that takes returns...
It has a kind of unusuall shape which I suspect plays some role in VHF reception...

HD: TOSHIBA HD-A2
TV: PHILIPS 50PF9731
SACD: SONY AVD-S50ES
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post #138 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 11:40 AM
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For those of you unhappy with 11-1, check out this article...

THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV
There's a lot more than picture quality at stake
We've got to clean up our act in high-definition

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0704felland.shtml

Originally published in Current, March 12, 2007
Commentary by David Felland

Few viewers of the PBS high-definition channel realize that it doesn't exclusively air HD programming--or that most of it, in fact, is standard-definition video that's been upconverted to HD.
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post #139 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 11:56 AM
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The article refers to TitanTv.com but I have found Zap2it.com, based on recommendations from fellow AVS'ers here, has more reliable listing for both HD sources and program times.
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post #140 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 12:43 PM
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Here's another interesting article on the trade-offs that PBS stations are experimenting with...

THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV

DTV channel options: How much to mux?

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0702bi...m-liroff.shtml

When public TV first learned it could air four program streams on a single DTV channel, that may have seemed too much airtime to fill. Now the system faces an abundance of high-def and other options, leaving stations to bet on those with the best chance to last and prosper. Liroff, who was v.p. and chief technology officer of Boston's WGBH when he wrote this, examines the options and trade-offs.
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post #141 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (l)user View Post

No problem, I'll start digging tonight... I do suggest however trying that TV-5 Terk antenna, preferably from Best Buy or any other place that takes returns...
It has a kind of unusuall shape which I suspect plays some role in VHF reception...

I've read a few good reviews of that antenna, so I can't say I'm as suprised as some - but I am a bit surprised that it would pick up WBBM-DT so well. It's not even that wide, from what I've seen. I guess if you're close enough it'll work.
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post #142 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 01:00 PM
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And here's yet another PBS related article....
Note that one station manager proposes to DROP PBS-HD in order to carry V-me!


THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV

Multicast channels crowd bitstream

V-me, in Spanish, joins options for stations' DTV broadcasts

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0702choices.shtml

The demand for programming to fill public TV stations' new DTV multicast channels has suddenly produced an abundant supply of choices.

...

"Something has to go" so APT can air V-me or World, Pizzato told Current. He plans to make room for one of them by dropping PBS-HD at the end of the fiscal year and replacing it with an up-converted version of the standard-definition PBS feed, providing the National Program Service's much broader content but without a true high-def picture. "That will allow me to not broadcast the SD-version of my analog signal and save a little bit of bandwidth," Pizzato said. For true high-def programs, which are only a portion of the HD feed, APT would switch to HD, he said.

...
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post #143 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 01:06 PM
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The fool probably doesn't even watch PBS.
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post #144 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I've read a few good reviews of that antenna, so I can't say I'm as suprised as some - but I am a bit surprised that it would pick up WBBM-DT so well. It's not even that wide, from what I've seen. I guess if you're close enough it'll work.

You should have seen my face when my tuner picked WBBM on 2.1. I did not expect this small antenna to manage where other, larger antennas failed.

I am pretty close and have a clear view to the Hancock my antenna however is positioned in a room that is not facing Hancock at all... The antenna is relatively small, nowhere near the dipole lenght required for channel 2. But it works and 2.1 is nice and steady, not worse than 7.1 or 9.1...
I could finally watch Letterman last night!

HD: TOSHIBA HD-A2
TV: PHILIPS 50PF9731
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post #145 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

Few viewers of the PBS high-definition channel realize that it doesn't exclusively air HD programming--or that most of it, in fact, is standard-definition video that's been upconverted to HD.

I know Motorweek is one of those. I've even seen chroma rainbows at times!!

One clue is the little voice/logo before the program. If it just says 'Widescreen', it's probably upconverted SD.

It also doesn't help when SD is upconverted to 1080i for the PBSHD feed, then WTTW downconverts it to 720P, then your cable/satellite box or TV converts it to 1080i, then your TV converts it to it's native format!!

Need help with your Motorola DVR? Check the Wikibook: How to use a Motorola DVR
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post #146 of 12184 Old 03-22-2007, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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For those of you who loved WMVT-DT 35 (36.1) up in Milwaukee with its pure 1080i signal...they were just having technical difficulties. We have been rest assured that they are back at full 1080i, 19.3 mb/sec full bandwidth of HD.

If ya wanna see what PBS-HD *really* looks like, next time you have tropo,
tune to 35-1 and drop your jaw...

Gilbert
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post #147 of 12184 Old 03-23-2007, 01:10 AM
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I think I'll just devote my energy and resources to getting WMVT-DT as well as possible, as far as PBS HD goes.

WTTW can just stick it. Let them dilute themselves into one, big jumbled mess for all I care.

About the upconverted PBS-HD programs:
My TVGOS guide specifies whether something is in HD or not, so I often check that to be sure. In fact, I did it just tonight when they were showing Union Station on Austin City Limits. I thought it appeared kind of soft, so I checked, and it wasn't in HD.
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post #148 of 12184 Old 03-23-2007, 04:31 PM
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After ~2.5 years of using a Silver Sensor screwed to the top of my chimney for OTA reception, I decided to get something more permanent and purchased a Winegard 7082 from Tri-State Electronics for use w/ my HR10-250 TiVO. I am 3.1 & 3.2 miles from the Hancock & Sears Tower (with line-of-sight to both), respectively, in the Wicker Park neighborhood of the city.

Even though the Silver Sensor is technically a UHF-only antenna, I have still been able to get CBS with no problem over the years and was getting an average of 88-94% signal strength for all the other channels. The reason I wanted to replace it was that, being an "indoor" antenna, I am currently on my 2nd or 3rd antenna after the connectors/wires on the others have deteriorated over time.

One would expect the 7082 to be at least as good as the SS but that is most definitely not what I've seen so far. After installing it, multiple aiming attempts and subsequent double and triple checking of the couplings from the connector box to the antenna leads, I got very poor signal strength on the UHF channels -- around 50-60%, with WTTW not coming in at all and only 0-20% for CBS, with it varying back and forth from 0 to 20 repeatedly and never getting a signal lock. The same cable was used for both antennae.

I tried calling Tri-State and they basically had no suggestions other than that I'm possibly getting *too much* signal and to try an attenuator and to call Winegard, which I tried doing but all I got was voicemail when calling their 800 number

As of now I'm reconnected to the SS. The CBS feed is OK now but isn't reliable. I can use the east coast DirecTV feed for it if I need it.

Anyone have any ideas ? This sort of annoyance is probably what is going to lead me back to Comcast once they get a TiVO-based DVR.

edit: I guess I can try quad-shield cable but it'd be odd (I think) that the SS would be fine w/ the cable I'm using (generic Radio Shack stuff) while the 7082 is not.
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post #149 of 12184 Old 03-23-2007, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tem View Post

After ~2.5 years of using a Silver Sensor screwed to the top of my chimney for OTA reception, I decided to get something more permanent and purchased a Winegard 7082 from Tri-State Electronics for use w/ my HR10-250 TiVO. I am 3.1 & 3.2 miles from the Hancock & Sears Tower (with line-of-sight to both), respectively, in the Wicker Park neighborhood of the city.

One would expect the 7082 to be at least as good as the SS but that is most definitely not what I've seen so far. After installing it, multiple aiming attempts and subsequent double and triple checking of the couplings from the connector box to the antenna leads, I got very poor signal strength on the UHF channels -- around 50-60%, with WTTW not coming in at all and only 0-20% for CBS, with it varying back and forth from 0 to 20 repeatedly and never getting a signal lock. The same cable was used for both antennae.

As of now I'm reconnected to the SS. The CBS feed is OK now but isn't reliable. I can use the east coast DirecTV feed for it if I need it.

Anyone have any ideas ? This sort of annoyance is probably what is going to lead me back to Comcast once they get a TiVO-based DVR.

edit: I guess I can try quad-shield cable but it'd be odd (I think) that the SS would be fine w/ the cable I'm using (generic Radio Shack stuff) while the 7082 is not.

Tem,

Wow. I looked to make sure I didn't recommend that antenna to you from a distance of 3 miles out. You are having four problems here, my guess:

1) Overloaded signal
2) Bad connections/connectors
3) Multipath
4) Signal leaking in dual-shield cable causing cancellation and other issues

Check #2 first. Can you hook it up to an analog TV or VCR and see how that works? If it is snowy, something is seriously wrong with your connection to the antenna. If it isn't, and you are seeing weird interference, #1 is the problem.

If it is overload, and with a clear shot to both, that would be my guess, you are overloading the tuner.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/attenuator.html

Before you do this, however, again...make sure everything is connected well at the antenna and at every point to your TV, and put it on an analog tuner to see how well they come in. If it's snowy, a connection is shot somewhere. Let me know what you see.

Gilbert
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post #150 of 12184 Old 03-24-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Tem,

Wow. I looked to make sure I didn't recommend that antenna to you from a distance of 3 miles out. You are having four problems here, my guess:

1) Overloaded signal
2) Bad connections/connectors
3) Multipath
4) Signal leaking in dual-shield cable causing cancellation and other issues

Check #2 first. Can you hook it up to an analog TV or VCR and see how that works? If it is snowy, something is seriously wrong with your connection to the antenna. If it isn't, and you are seeing weird interference, #1 is the problem.

If it is overload, and with a clear shot to both, that would be my guess, you are overloading the tuner.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/attenuator.html

Before you do this, however, again...make sure everything is connected well at the antenna and at every point to your TV, and put it on an analog tuner to see how well they come in. If it's snowy, a connection is shot somewhere. Let me know what you see.

thanks. I'll try troubleshooting and will let you know what I find.
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