The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 117 - AVS Forum
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post #3481 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 09:01 AM
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DTV Notes
FCC Provides Rules For DTV Fill-Ins
In total, 14 stations have submitted 20 applications for the translators, and eight requests for temporary translators
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/8/2009 4:16:59 PM MT

The FCC Friday released its order establishing a new class of translators that will help stations fill in DTV coverage gaps in their current service areas.

"It is the Commission’s goal that, following the digital transition, all Americans continue to receive the television broadcast service that they are accustomed to receiving to the greatest extent feasible," the FCC said.

As expected, the commission will not allow the translators on channels 52-59, which are being cleared for advanced wireless services. Besides, the FCC said, none applied for translators in that spectrum.

In total, said the FCC, 14 stations have submitted 20 applications for the translators, and eight requests for temporary translators.

The FCC said it will separately issue a public notice on a first come, first serve licensing process for translators to deal with issues involving coverage problems that require "more distant translators."

As expected, the commission has also decided not to put a six-month deadline on construction of the facilities, but keep the usual three-year time period.

The FCC will not make broadcasters pay in the secondary spectrum market for the fill-in spectrum, as the wireless industry had suggested.

The FCC rejected a proposal by the National Association of Broadcasters that they have more flexibility to determine a signal loss area, saying that would be "unduly combersome to administer."

The FCC's decision comes only a little over a month before the June 12 switch to digital, but the commission has been allowing translator applications to be submitted under temporary authority.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...V_Fill_Ins.php

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post #3482 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 06:33 PM
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More translators or more transmitter power? There's got to be a calculus, of sorts, that determines the tipping point between either choice.

Let's use a couple of Barrington Broadcasting's smallest market stations: WLUC in Marquette MI analog ch 6 digital ch 35, and KTVO Kirksville MO analog 3, digital 33. Both were full power VHFs, but have elected "super-translator" status to date for the digital UHF operations: 63kW and 87kW respectively. (Sorry, I pick on these guys too much, but...)

Wonder where "George Costanza" has been hanging out (or not ) since his character was retired back in the 90s? The mgmt suite at Barrington? "George: Look, you don't understand. There was shrinkage." (Seinfeld episode #85, "The Hamptons")

Maybe, shrinkage is a good thing. These stations could deploy translators to fill in the gaps more effectively than a 1 meg U. In the case of WLUC (IIRC) terrain problems in Marquette mean major shadowing problems for the city of license.

But then there may be a point where increasing power &/or tower at the main transmitter might be more cost effective. Where that point is, is the question for those of you here who are more in the know than I am. A bigger transmitter is major bucks, but you can't get half a dozen translators at Wal-Mart.


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post #3483 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 06:39 PM
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It's one of those things that depends on your local area. My area - no translators - all high power transmitters at essentially a single site (makes it easy for aiming an antenna). But then - there are no significant terrain features that mask much territory.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

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post #3484 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I missed it when it happened; two weeks ago, WDSE and KTCI filed joint requests. WDSE is apparently really desperate to reuse their UHF 38 gear, and has paid off KTCI to relocate to channel 23 instead of 38.This is fun.
(Also, my e-mail is back up.)
- Trip

OK Trip, now I am confused!

KTCA ("2.1 &2.2") currently on and plans to stay on UHF Channel 34.

KTCI ("2.3 &2.4"), which was our old Channel 17, has been using Channel 16, and originally was planned to go to Channel 26 {not 23 ( which is vacated by WUCW no longer Analog Ch.23, but all DTV on Ch. 22)}.

Currently KMSP Channel 9 is digital on Ch 26 with plans to switch back to Ch.9 come June. And was planning to sell its transmitter to KTCI.

The problem is that to match the broadcast area of KTCA, the power of Ch. 26 for KTCI would 'infringe with Canada'; but they found that Ch. 38 would have worked perfectly.

Sooooo....are you saying that KTCI is going to stay with Channel 26 afterall
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post #3485 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 09:29 PM
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No.

KTCI-DT is currently 16. They had asked for 26, but 26 is unusable due to WHWC-DT 27.

They asked the FCC to let them move to 38. WDSE-DT opposed the move because they want to recycle their existing channel 38 gear.

The joint request now wants to put KTCI-DT on channel 23. WDSE-DT has paid them almost $30,000 to make it happen.

- Trip

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post #3486 of 7371 Old 05-10-2009, 10:07 PM
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I had posted this in the New Orleans thread but I guess I should post it here as well. Check this out:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....cility_id=4149

First of many? I imagine some can only hope so.

- Trip

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post #3487 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I had posted this in the New Orleans thread but I guess I should post it here as well. Check this out:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....cility_id=4149

First of many? I imagine some can only hope so.

- Trip

To summarize: WVUE in New Orleans wants to change its mind. It was doing DT on its former analog channel 8, but found that "a significant number of viewers throughout WVUE’s predicted service area have reported (and are continuing to report) the complete loss of digital service from WVUE" since then. They want to go back to channel 29 at 660 kW.

Part of the problem there is that they were allotted just 14.6 kW on channel 8, and they know it's unlikely they'll be approved for much more than that because of a channel 9 in Baton Rouge.

None of the high-V stations where I live were content with that kind of power. Most petitioned for double and got it.

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post #3488 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dline View Post

To summarize: WVUE in New Orleans wants to change its mind. It was doing DT on its former analog channel 8, but found that "a significant number of viewers throughout WVUE’s predicted service area have reported (and are continuing to report) the complete loss of digital service from WVUE" since then. They want to go back to channel 29 at 660 kW.

Part of the problem there is that they were allotted just 14.6 kW on channel 8, and they know it's unlikely they'll be approved for much more than that because of a channel 9 in Baton Rouge.

None of the high-V stations where I live were content with that kind of power. Most petitioned for double and got it.

WVUE's former owner, Emmis, made the decision to do post-transition digital on 8.

From what I hear, lots of local broadcast engineers (maybe even engineering staff at WVUE, privately) had a "HUH??!! WTF?!" reaction to that decision, especially considering that they'd almost surely never be allowed to run at more than 14.6 kW.

It seems the new management is blessed with the ability to blame the bad decision on former management, and try to correct the bad decision.

Based on the filing, as well as what I've heard, it's mostly apartment dwelling rabbit-ear users, relatively close to the tower, that are having a problem (and did not have a problem using something like a "Silver Sensor" with UHF 29). Folks far out enough to need a large outdoor antenna no matter what (like me) are finding the "predicted contour" to be (apparently) accurate, but it falls short of accurately predicting what happens with rabbit ears indoors, close in.

Actually, for me, 8 performs a little better than 29 since I'm surrounded by very tall pine trees. When those trees wave in the wind, it creates ever shifting multipath on 29, that ATSC tuners have trouble with. 8 remains relatively stable in the wind.


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post #3489 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoFishMan View Post

Based on the filing, as well as what I've heard, it's mostly apartment dwelling rabbit-ear users, relatively close to the tower, that are having a problem (and did not have a problem using something like a "Silver Sensor" with UHF 29). Folks far out enough to need a large outdoor antenna no matter what (like me) are finding the "predicted contour" to be (apparently) accurate, but it falls short of accurately predicting what happens with rabbit ears indoors, close in.

Since about 75% of all OTA viewers use rabbit ears, perhaps we will see more of these requests in a few months. Many of the major markets are largely UHF now and will have lower powered stations than these on upper VHF, post-transition. NYC is the best example, but LA, Philadelphia and Chicago are at risk, among many others.

Is WBAL paying attention? 5kW on 11 in an urban area? Good luck with that.

Upper VHF is going to be too crowded to effectively maximize the stations I'm afraid. Where are 52-59 when we need them most?

There will be between 57 and 77 stations on each upper VHF channel. The UHF range is 22 to 48. With the longer range of VHF, it further complicates the band.

The irony seems to be that more power is needed up close vs. distance for VHF, but trying to use rabbit ears has a lot to do with it. However, as I have mentioned too often, what's an indoor bound antenna viewer to do? Hang a 5' boom antenna from the ceiling?

The "hidden" transition may be more problematic than the "real" one.


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post #3490 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 08:14 AM
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DTV Notes
Survey: Viewers Report Better Picture Across All Channels After Getting Converter Box
According to NAB, 47% of respondents have seen "major improvement" in reception
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/11/2009 8:39:29 AM MT

Three quarters of over-the-air analog viewers polled said they received a better picture across all their channels after getting a digital converter box.

That is according to a study conducted by SmithGeiger and commissioned by the National Association of Broadcasters. NAB declined to make the survey available and had not returned an e-mail and phone call at press time to explain why.

According to NAB, the study found that 47% of respondents said they had seen a "major improvement" in TV reception. In addition, 54% said they were receiving more channels while only 8% said they were receiving fewer.

The study was a phone poll of 1,080 households (1080 is the number of lines of resolution in one format of high-definition television) between March 26 and April 8.

All viewers without cable or satellite or a digital TV set will need a converter box to watch full-power TV after the June 12 hard date.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...verter_Box.php

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post #3491 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

DTV Notes
Survey: Viewers Report Better Picture Across All Channels After Getting Converter Box
According to NAB, 47% of respondents have seen "major improvement" in reception
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/11/2009 8:39:29 AM MT



According to NAB, the study found that 47% of respondents said they had seen a "major improvement" in TV reception. In addition, 54% said they were receiving more channels while only 8% said they were receiving fewer.



The study was a phone poll of 1,080 households (1080 is the number of lines of resolution in one format of high-definition television) between March 26 and April 8.



http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...verter_Box.php

That is a good sign, and it should go even higher after June 12.
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post #3492 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 08:42 AM
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The Hidden Transition

Attached is a list of stations that are currently on UHF for DTV, but will move to VHF. Of course, there are other factors to consider, such as HAAT, etc., but some of these stations may find their new signal doesn't quite match what they once had.

Now, the FCC doesn't require these stations to warn viewers of these impending band changes? That rule only applies for analog to DTV band changes, right? ...vs. DTV to DTV band changes.

The delay will probably have made this problem worse as more viewers have had time to get accustomed to the existing signals.

 

Hidden-Transition.pdf 33.4150390625k . file


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post #3493 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Since about 75% of all OTA viewers use rabbit ears, perhaps we will see more of these requests in a few months. Many of the major markets are largely UHF now and will have lower powered stations than these on upper VHF, post-transition. NYC is the best example, but LA, Philadelphia and Chicago are at risk, among many others.


[snip]


The "hidden" transition may be more problematic than the "real" one.

In contemplating WVUE's request something occurred to me:

I'll bet that WVUE found that a lot of their viewers that "lost" them after the switch, are using a UHF only indoor antenna (probably a "sliver sensor") without rabbit ears.

Many of these viewers probably have the attitude, "I can get 10 out of 11 of my digital locals with this silver sensor. That's good enough, I just won't watch WVUE. Rabbit ears are too ugly."

Ouch! Of course, that argument wouldn't pass muster with the FCC, but I'll bet it's an unspoken factor.

While we have one other VHF-Hi digital channel, WYES-PBS; at 104 kW their signal punches in on almost any radiating surface. In almost any situation where a silver sensor will get you all the UHF local channels, it will pull in WYES as well, despite the frequency being far from the radiating frequency of the antenna, due to it's crazy-high power. The same antenna would fall far short of pulling in 14.6 kW WVUE, however. And, we've got another full power PBS affiliate on UHF.

Yep, when the "unseen" transition happens, I'll bet we'll see lots and lots more of these, from all over the country!


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post #3494 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 10:59 AM
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Falcon, unless I missed it, your list is missing one around here - WJW-DT (Fox, Cleveland), which moves from 31 to 8 at the transition.
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post #3495 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

Falcon, unless I missed it, your list is missing one around here - WJW-DT (Fox, Cleveland), which moves from 31 to 8 at the transition.

They have a CP for 30kW, which is why it wasn't included.

Perhaps I should show all of them, regardless of power, etc., as the 30kW CP for WJW is directional vs. the non-directional 11kW facility that I was previously showing for them. Also, it appears that they will be operating from a aux antenna until they swap out the main antenna.


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post #3496 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 11:42 AM
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Trip advised that his Internet connection has been up and down and is having problems posting to the forum.


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post #3497 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

The Hidden Transition

Attached is a list of stations in top 100 areas that are currently on UHF for DTV, but will move to VHF.

I don't know if you care about these sorts of details but you might want to add KXTV Sacramento to your list. KXTV is currently on UHF for DTV and has a CP for channel 10. They recently (Feb. 2009) were granted an increase from 22KW to 43KW. In their April 2009 387 form filing they say that on June 12 they will be operating according to their original CP; i.e. 22KW and that sometime in the 3 year period for the new CP they will increase power. Who knows when they'll be operating at their higher power. Hopefully it won't be 3 years.

BTW, I looked at all the recent 387 filings from the stations in Sacramento, SF, and Salinas. There are a large number of stations that won't be operating their final post transition facilities on June 13th. They're using temporary lower antennas and/or running half power. Analog may shut off on June 12th but the transition won't really be complete for another 4-6 months up here in Northern California.


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post #3498 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I don't know if you care about these sorts of details but you might want to add KXTV Sacramento to your list. KXTV is currently on UHF for DTV and has a CP for channel 10. They recently (Feb. 2009) were granted an increase from 22KW to 43KW. In their April 2009 387 form filing they say that on June 12 they will be operating according to their original CP; i.e. 22KW and that sometime in the 3 year period for the new CP they will increase power. Who knows when they'll be operating at their higher power. Hopefully it won't be 3 years.

The stations with maximized CP's should have plenty of incentive to complete the facilities inside of 3 years.

I uploaded a new version above, showing all the UHF > VHF DTV moves still pending.

Note that many of the smaller markets don't have full power UHF stations right now, which is why I had left off 101+ before. Also, I have not yet updated my rankings to be in line with Trip's latest updates.


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post #3499 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 01:43 PM
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At this time I can get NO digital stations on the VHF band. Everything I get is on UHF.

it's bad for rabbit ear users that are farther away.
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post #3500 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 02:50 PM
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What VHF-band digital stations were you hoping to receive? I ran a tvfool plot on a known address in Back Bay - I know that's not exactly where you are, but it very nicely lists out all the Boston locals.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...61b4ed53377fa4
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post #3501 of 7371 Old 05-11-2009, 10:52 PM
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Kinex is supposed to arrive at 10AM and realign the antenna, though I'm not really sure that's the problem. I think the connector on the coax that hooks to the antenna is bad and is getting water in it. That antenna should not have moved the way Dad attached the thing up there. It's right below the rotor for the TV antennas:

http://images.townnews.com/southside...tories/ts3.jpg

The connection seems to be functioning a bit better now (water in the connector evaporated?) but is still crawling. Packet loss is down to 10% (from 70% Sunday night and 30% all day Monday) which is more than the "normal" 3% which is a result of their backhaul antennas being somewhat out of alignment. Doesn't seem like much, only 7 additional percentage points, but it's enough to keep things from moving.

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post #3502 of 7371 Old 05-12-2009, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Is WBAL paying attention? 5kW on 11 in an urban area? Good luck with that.

I'm 42 miles from WBAL-DT NBC 11 in Baltimore with non-favorable terrain and alignment of townhouses in the direction of the Baltimore stations. Going to be interesting to see if I can still get WBAL-DT after June 12 with a YA-6713 upper VHF antenna in the attic. WJZ-DT CBS 13 in Baltimore will also be running at a reduced ERP of 9.8 kW for a month or 2 until they get a new directional antenna installed for 28.8 kW operation. There could be a flood of reception complaints for these 2 stations in the Baltimore market starting on June 13. I have posted warnings in the Wash-Balt thread about WBAL-DT reception after June 12.

Quote:


There will be between 57 and 77 stations on each upper VHF channel. The UHF range is 22 to 48. With the longer range of VHF, it further complicates the band.

You are not counting low power and Class A stations in those bands. The low power and Class A stations fill in a lot of the "gaps" in the UHF bands. In the mid-Atlantic region with a lot of translators or low power stations in the valleys away the cities, there are already a number of analog-digital conflicts and eventually will be a number of digital-digital conflicts for those located on the outer edges of the major market coverage areas. Sure, lots of room for the whiteband communication boxes.
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post #3503 of 7371 Old 05-12-2009, 08:52 AM
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Well, the Kinex guy just left. It's the first time anyone who's come to this house from Kinex has been competent. Heck, he was better than competent--he was great!

He went up on the roof and when he unhooked the connector, water came rushing out of it. He decided to replace the whole piece of coax between the antenna and the radio. Put that in, signal went right back to where it should have been. He then showed us the spare antenna he brought. It was rated at 17 dB whereas ours was 13 dB. We decided to go for it; replaced the antenna as well. Signal went from -78 to -75, a full 3 dB higher than it has ever been.

Short version: I'm back in action! =)

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post #3504 of 7371 Old 05-12-2009, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dreater View Post

What VHF-band digital stations were you hoping to receive? I ran a tvfool plot on a known address in Back Bay - I know that's not exactly where you are, but it very nicely lists out all the Boston locals.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...61b4ed53377fa4

There's only 2 in my neck of the woods that are recievable. WENH (11) in Durham NH and soon-to-be WHDH (7) in Boston ma. Previously I was recieving 11 analog just fine from a distance of 31 miles. Their analog signal is now off. Digital-only now. Have attempted using VHF dipoles to no avail.

I already get the PBS affiliate (WGBH) out of boston so i can do without 11. But 7 I do want.

the zero-audience VHF (WWDP) out of Norwell ma i don't care about either.


I have 1edge and 2edge reception by the way so it's a challenge...
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post #3505 of 7371 Old 05-12-2009, 09:18 PM
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KWSU wants a fill-in translator on channel 17 in Spokane.

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post #3506 of 7371 Old 05-13-2009, 11:09 AM
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DTV NOTES
Lake: 3.5 Million Still Not Ready For DTV Switch
Worried about vulnerable populations, FCC prepared to handle 200,000 in-home box installations
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/13/2009 10:34:50 AM MT

"Yes, June 12 is Congress' final answer," said FCC DTV transition coordinator William Lake, in a status report to the commissioners 30 days out from the DTV transition date.

Lake warned that 3.5 million people had still not taken the actions necessary to avoid losing access to their TV signal, saying many of those were in the most vulnerable populations, including the elderly, low income, disabled minority and rural areas.

Conveying a sense of urgency, Lake told the commissioners that the key was doing everything possible so that those viewers did not lose their, "only link, in some cases, to news and the world at large."

That message came in a DTV status report during the commission's public meeting Wednesday.

FCC staffers and NTIA DTV coupon box program coordinator Bernie McGuire-Rivera outlined the steps the FCC and NTIA are taking to convey that urgency and help those populations get ready.

That includes the planned national soft analog plug-pulling test on May 21, which the FCC says NAB and the networks, station groups, cable and satellite operators will be participating in.

Lake said the FCC is prepared to handle over 200,000 in-home installations of converter boxes. The FCC call center will be ready to ramp up to 4,000 operators and can now handle calls in about 100 languages.

He said that the FCC has issued 46 contracts for assistance programs, 21 for in-home installations, 13 for in-home expert advice, and 12 for walk-in help centers. Firefighters will pitch in and help in areas not covered by the contracts. AmeriCorps volunteers and FCC boots on the ground continue their outreach efforts as well.

The FCC is also starting a media push, particularly to ethnic media, to get the word out. Acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps gave a shout out to trade press for their coverage of the transition, but said he wished the national media were doing more on the story.

McGuire-Rivera said NTIA was also ramping up its media effort, including both earned and paid media. She said NTIA had started advertising on buses in 22 cities because lower-income populations used buses more often. She said that NTIA had been avoiding paid advertising because it was expensive, but was not doing more paid advertising with ethnic media.

She also said that NTIA had mobile assistance centers (vans) and booths in 24 cities, saying that in the DTV "search and rescue" phase, the vans were the ambulances.

Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein joked that he kind of liked the idea of seeing the ads on buses because they "go slower than NASCARs and crash less often," a reference to the sponsorship of a DTV transition-themed race car under former FCC Chairman Kevin Martin.

Copps praised McGuire-Rivera for NTIA's having cleared out the converter box coupon waiting list, and said that new Commerce Secretary Gary Locke had "thrown himself" into the effort, saying that when Copps had called him the day before he had been told he was busy taping DTV spots.

Copps echoed his sentiment that the Feb. 17 transition date would have been a disaster and thanked the president and Congress for moving the date.

He said there would still be disruptions, citing some people who will procrastinate and others who will have reception problems no matter what they did to prepare because of the different propagation characteristics of digital or the move of transmitters. "Not all problems will be resolved between now and June 12," he said, "and candor compels us to so inform affected viewers."

For one thing, the FCC has mandated that stations who lose more than 2% of their analog viewership in the transition to digital inform their viewers of that fact.

"I assure you of one thing," Copps said. "The FCC's commitment does not end at the converter box or on June 12. We will be working just as hard in the days and weeks following June 12."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...DTV_Switch.php

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post #3507 of 7371 Old 05-13-2009, 11:10 AM
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LPTV NOTES
NTIA Launches Low Power Television and Translator Digital Upgrade Program
$44 million available for low-power stations making digital transition
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/13/2009 9:36:31 AM MT

The National Telecommunications & Information Administration has announced the launch of the Low Power Television and Translator Digital Upgrade Program.

NTIA has $44 million available to help low-power TV stations make the transition to digital. Those stations were not required to pull the plug on analog on June 12 along with full-power stations.

The program reimburses licensees for equipment upgrades and replacement equipment.

Stations can get up to $6,000 to modify existing analog equipment or up to $20,000 to replace equipment, starting with either nonprofits or those serving rural areas with fewer than 10,000 viewers.

Stations that meet either of those priority designations have until July 13 to apply. The rest of the stations can then apply.

NTIA already has a program under which low-powers could get $1,000 for a device that converts a digital signal to analog.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...de_Program.php

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post #3508 of 7371 Old 05-13-2009, 11:56 AM
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Upper VHF is going to be too crowded to effectively maximize the stations I'm afraid. Where are 52-59 when we need them most?

There will be between 57 and 77 stations on each upper VHF channel. The UHF range is 22 to 48. With the longer range of VHF, it further complicates the band.

The irony seems to be that more power is needed up close vs. distance for VHF, but trying to use rabbit ears has a lot to do with it. However, as I have mentioned too often, what's an indoor bound antenna viewer to do? Hang a 5' boom antenna from the ceiling?

The "hidden" transition may be more problematic than the "real" one.

I have been saying this now for about a month Falcon. I could agree with you more! The secret change will be the cuts back to VHF.

Channel 52-59 are really needed. If this is where people like Sprint are putting their G4 network, most people will end up loosing. Sprint doesn't cover much anyway. Even if I am wrong I am sick of the next G level, and no one is building towers anymore for cells.

I could go on and on why the 50 where a mistake to take away from OTA. Translators, crowding in the NE, relieve the VHF crowding.

The VHFs realized they needed to raise power to fill in their contour, in particular those on rabbit ears and those on the deep fringe (like me). I am in the contour of 2 NBCs of which neither come in reliably and both are or going to raise power. The noise on VHF was not expected. Another reason they raised power.

This is all good till the sun sets. Then............... garbage. Unless you live within 30 miles or so of these VHFs, in many places there is another VHF on the same channel. So even if you are barely within a contour, the co-channel rears it's head most nights.

I used to watch RF 12 and 7 out of Jacksonville FL for decades here. There wasn't anyone on those channels for hundreds of miles. Now all three Jax VHFs have a co-channel in Tampa. I am 61 miles from Jacksonville, and 115 from Tampa. And I am inside, though barely barely the Jacksonville contours. Doesn't help at night, as that is too close for Gulf Coast nightly skip. On top of that they assigned a low power 7 about 25 miles south of me! I am in a null, but all this RF just raises the noise floor.

So the increased power in the day has hurt things at night. The same team that designed the Space Shuttle must have figured these new rules for allowing high band VHF so danged close together.

Add to that the lie about how great subchannels work, and it's a mess now.

========

Yes that is the other problem Luminance and I were talking about in the Orlando thread. What do you use for VHF indoor? Rabbit ears is about it. Silver Sensor could come out with a VHF version with rotating lights so it looks like a disco ball or doubles as a ceiling fan when not on a station.

I promise, June 13th is going to be very interesting indeed. I bet threads get swamped. Maybe. Time will tell.

If you read the Springfield MO thread it looks like it wasn't a big deal when their PBS switched to VHF in April. But if you know people there or read the local BBS type forums there are a lot of people that lost signal. The person I know there best lives in a trailer, and recieved PBS when they were on UHF fine. Now nothing. She had a UHF only amplified antenna. I told her go buy rabbit ears with a loop like the Radio Shack Budget antenna. Her UHF went up by 10 points (overload or poor antenna) and now she sees PBS on VHF but it's only watchable some days, some times, but not predictably watchable.

We will see on June 13th.....................

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post #3509 of 7371 Old 05-13-2009, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

The Hidden Transition

Attached is a list of stations that are currently on UHF for DTV, but will move to VHF. Of course, there are other factors to consider, such as HAAT, etc., but some of these stations may find their new signal doesn't quite match what they once had.

Now, the FCC doesn't require these stations to warn viewers of these impending band changes? That rule only applies for analog to DTV band changes, right? ...vs. DTV to DTV band changes.

The delay will probably have made this problem worse as more viewers have had time to get accustomed to the existing signals.

And more have bought UHF only antennas. They honestly don't know. They walk in Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart. They see a box called HD TV antenna. The sales person may actually have one and be happy. Both of them unaware of the cuts to VHF to come.

So not only have more people bought CECBs but probably more people have bought the wrong antenna. Even a lot of "antenna shops" are not up to date with changes.

June 13th will be interesting.

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post #3510 of 7371 Old 05-13-2009, 12:03 PM
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DTV Notes
Survey: Viewers Report Better Picture Across All Channels After Getting Converter Box
According to NAB, 47% of respondents have seen "major improvement" in reception
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/11/2009 8:39:29 AM MT

Three quarters of over-the-air analog viewers polled said they received a better picture across all their channels after getting a digital converter box.

That is according to a study conducted by SmithGeiger and commissioned by the National Association of Broadcasters. NAB declined to make the survey available and had not returned an e-mail and phone call at press time to explain why.

According to NAB, the study found that 47% of respondents said they had seen a "major improvement" in TV reception. In addition, 54% said they were receiving more channels while only 8% said they were receiving fewer.

The study was a phone poll of 1,080 households (1080 is the number of lines of resolution in one format of high-definition television) between March 26 and April 8.

All viewers without cable or satellite or a digital TV set will need a converter box to watch full-power TV after the June 12 hard date.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...verter_Box.php

I would love to see the demographics of who was called. All you would have to do is lean toward urban areas to get better results of the transition. Rural people like me are loosing more channels I am sure than urban customers.

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