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Originally Posted by Foxeng /forum/post/0
Stations do not have a choice in this. It is the law. Stations will brand with their analog channel numbers from now on, no matter what channel they actually transmit on.
Very true, as is everything else you've said about this ... However .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng /forum/post/0
The purpose of keeping the analog channel branding is to keep the public's confusion factor down.
And, IMO, the way I read the section of 2nd DTV review R&O as well as comments submitted by interested parties on this issue, I think it was also done to allow stations to keep their existing analog channel branding.
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since any OTA tuner will be remapped to the old analog channel
Actually, RCA DTC-100 is one tuner that allows the user to turn off PSIP channel mapping and use/display to the user the actual RF channel number instead. MPEG program stream #'s are used instead of minor Channel #'s.
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once a tuner has been scanned, it really doesn't matter since the old analog channel numbers will still be displayed.
#1).Tuners don't allways find all receivable channels via a "scan", sometimes different antenna adjustment is necessary to receive different stations.
This is a little easier to accomplish with a receiver that allows you to rescan/add channels with antenna in different direction if you have a outdoor, directional antenna which can generally be "aimed" in the right direction for any given station, but probably not as easy if there are receivers that don't allow manual tuning or "scanning in"/adding a single channel/station by RF channel if you're futzing around with posistioning of indoor antennas .....
#2). The PSIP VCT info sent by each station containing the remapped channel info for that station(the major channel # which corresponds to the "old" analog channel #) can't be decoded until signal near threshold for reception(i.e. decoding of audio video streams) is acheived.
However, most DTV receivers I've used can and do show some sort of an indication of signal when DTV signal is as much as about 10db below threshold required for reception, and probably about 8db below what is required to decode the PSIP info. On one receiver, careful examination of its "AGC" readings is one way this can be accomplished --- including regardless of the multipath conditions which in some cases can result in a "signal strength"(yeah right, but that's what it says it is) reading of "ZERO", even in some cases when the signal is actually quite strong ...on another receiver here, its so called "DTV signal meter" is generally sufficient in this regard, and again, will indicate a DTV signal on a RF channel well below what is required to decode the PSIP channel remapping info ....
In other words, in some cases, OTA viewers will need to know the actual RF channel # used, and the receiver will need to provide a non-confusing and intuitive way for them to individually manually "tune in", or "scan in" a single RF channel and allow the user to utilize signal meter(s) while adjusting antenna for best results to even be able to achieve a condition where the channel remapping info can be received+from then on be used by the receiver so the station "shows up" as it's "old analog channel #" via the channel remapping .....
All DTV receivers (I've owned 4 of them, different models, 5 if you count my newest DTV tuner in a PC) I've owned have some sort of way to do this to some extent, although I find this process is more cumbersome+less "intuitive" with some receivers vs. others.
Other than the DTC-100-* which I no longer own, and software such as Tsreader with which you use the RF channel to "tune with" --- the best receiver (IMO) I've used in this regard, in addition to a "auto channel scan" feature, has a "channel edit" list with all RF channel numbers 2-69 shown, and the user simply selects(or deselects - the autochannel scan automatically selects any RF channel in the list it achieves a lock on a signal on) the RF channel numbers for the stations in their area ... then, When/if the receiver achieves a lock on a signal from any of those "channels" you've selected as "active" in the list, the VCT info is stored+used by the receiver, and from then on the station can be "tuned to", or channel up/down "surfed to" by the VCT Major Channel # (or major+minor). The VCT major/Minor Channel #'s are the ones displayed as well, unless a signal lock isn't achieved, in which case it's the RF channel Number. Also, *every* time you tune to a "in use" major channel number, it automatically updates whatever info from the PSIP it's storing to whatever the broadcaster is currently sending, so when changes are made to MPEG info (PAT/PMT/PID's/etc) or PSIP tables or fields at the station which sometimes "upset" other receiver's which need a rescan, this receiver gets it automatically+doesn't need a new "rescan" ...
Also, with that receiver, it's possible at any time to "manually" tune directly to a RF channel #, any RF channel, including ones you haven't "selected" in the list or that haven't been found by autoscan - The only exception being a RF Channel # that corresponds to a VCT major channel number for a station which is added (by it's RF channel #) in the "channel edit number list"), and of course whose PSIP info had previously been decoded. Fortunetly, all one has to do is "deselect" that channel from the channel edit list if one wants to tune to that RF channel involved.
Another receiver model I have allows you to "scan in" a single RF channel while looking at a signal meter, that works as well.
* - other than the DTC-100 with the channel mapping turned off, which was the least confusing and "best" option for me+family when stations weren't required to do the channel remapping and some were doing it and some weren't ..
Although TSID should(and does from what I've seen) solve any problems that might arise when a "channel scan" occurs - such as if say in some cases via "dx" if multiple stations with identical major/channel #'s are received --- and it shouldn't be a problem currently in almost all cases as the analog station is transmitting there, currently, however :
I suspect the issue on some receivers of not being able to "scan in" a single RF channel, or to manually "tune" to a RF channel # that corresponds to a VCT Major channel # already in memory(at least without rescanning with antenna disconnected to clear all that info out) might become an issue in the future for some folks when those RF channels currently in use by analogs, in some cases will be used by other DTV stations.
I've heard rumors this might be the case with some receiver models(although I haven't seen any of these personally) --- Any Receiver which would only allow a full scan and a "scan in additional channels/add digital channels with antenna aimed a differet way without disrupting the channels found via full scan" options via autoscan features ONLY are probably the worst sort of thing to have in this regard IMO, as, in that case, you can only "guess" at where to posistion the antenna for any given station you want to add without the help of any "signal meter"+ in some cases some users will have to be doing a lot of "scanning" around ....
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I guess what I'm saying is, I wish they would come up with one, good "standardized" way to implement these necessary "scan in or manually tune a single channel" functions on *all* future receivers so it allways works the same for everyone, *and* would work for everyone and anyone no matter what might occur for cases when it is necesssary allows option of manual tuning(or scanning in a single indivdual RF channel) to *any* RF channel(2-51 post analog shut off) along with the use of some sort of "signal diagnostics" tools (AGC readings, Signal quality readings, SNR readings/etc) on an individual basis, by RF channel # ...
The FCC's posistion on this causing "less confusion" for the public, as it pertains to OTA viewers along with how some of the "channel tuning" features are implemented on some receivers, really seems only 100% applicable to me as it pertains to OTA viewers(those who are not getting guide info from the DBS companies/etc which If I understand correctly in some cases can also help with this sort of thing) who are lucky enough to do a autoscan and receive all their local stations they want, or can potentially receive via the "scan" ...
Hopefully that's the case for many folks, but I know it's not the case for some, and I expect, even now many folks have never seen many stations in their area they can actually recieve because their antenna wasn't orientated the "right way" when they did an "autoscan" ..... while that's true for analog as well with most modern analog TV's, it's very straightfoward to "tune" to the RF channel of an analog signal (and the actual RF analog channel #'s that correspond to what the tuners "say" they are are certianly well known+publicized) and get the picture and sound on the channel in a way that makes perfect sense and allows for easy+intutive adjustment of antenna for best reception results on screen .... That's not the case if you have a digital channel not found by "autoscan", where you need to be able to tune to RF channel look at some sort of meter to adjust signal so that you can get the channel remapping info ....
Also, there's the potential issue of the virtual channel #'s regarding the potential of some folks becoming confused about whether they need a UHF+VHF or just a UHF antenna, based on the virtual channels vs the actual frequency of transmission(which the "RF" channel number does correspond to via a well known "channel table" in use for many decades ...) ...
It's nice they're interested in making things less "confusing" and "easier", but sometimes, even with all good intentions of making things "easier" for many or most can also make things more complicated for others if some necessary more "manual" functions aren't available on the receivers as well ....