The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

144 filings yesterday, and I'm busily sifting through them. This is only part of it, as I doubt I can do 144 at one sitting.

*** WJCT's application says "in February" over and over, leading me to think the flash-cut will be before 02/17/09.

144 fillings, no sweat! Only around some 1400 more to be be filed in the next week or so.

A random look at the filings:
KCBS in LA: moving to UHF 43 taking over KCAL-DT's transmitter, but will file a petition to increase post transition power to 495 kW from the authorized 300 kW.

WJCT - some what confusing filing, but they plan to reduce analog power to 79% beginning in July 2008.

WJZ CBS 13 in Baltimore - ooh, complicated. WJZ-DT is moving from 38 to 13, WMAR ABC 2 is moving from 52 to 38, all on same huge tower in NW Baltimore. WJZ will file for STA DT operation on current 13 antenna starting on Feb. 17, 2009, while WMAR's old analog & digital antennas are removed, new antennas are put up for WJZ-DT and WMAR-DT, planned completion for WJZ-DT of April 22, 2009. I get WJZ and WMAR OTA, so I will be curious what WJZ's and WMAR's STA power will be.

WETA PBS 26 in Washington, DC - analog until the bitter end.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:53 AM
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Here's some more:

20080213ACM-ADZ

Analog to the bitter end, then just signing it off:
KNLC, WPXI, WCVN, KTNW, all the KET stations, WSKG, KXXV, KCNC#, WETA, KPAZ, WHFT

Silencing analog early:
KWSU****

Convoluted move after 2/17/09:
WJZ
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=25455

**** KWSU will silence its analog in January 2009 (it says 2008, I think it's a typo) and convert its analog 10 to digital. DT-17 will remain on the air during this time.

# Lookout Mountain/SCARE thing delayed digital construction.

More to still to come!

- Trip

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Old 02-14-2008, 10:00 AM
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Just a reminder, the 18th is Monday.

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Old 02-14-2008, 11:08 AM
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Yep. I'm dreading Tuesday morning.

Okay, here's some more:

20080213AEA-AFL::

To the bitter end, as they say:
WHDF, WLMB, KTEN, KRXI, KIVI, KMTF, WFTX, WXCW, WGBA(8), WSYM, KMTV(9), KSEE, KMIR, KAKM, KDLH, WBNG, WKBW, WPTA, WCNY, WAAY, WMYD, WISE, KOZK, WJCL(10), KOZJ, KBJR, WTVH, WYIN, KARD, KARK, KFTA, KNWA, KTAB, KLBK, KSFX, KCBS, WBRE, WCIA, WLYH, WMBD, WQRF, WROC, WTAJ, WTVW, KTAL, WTLV, WJXX, WKOI, KSDK, KTHV, WFMY, WGRZ, WXIA, WLTX, WATL.

KTNV in Las Vegas NV will cut analog power to 2/3 of full, then flash-cut on 02/17/09.

KDSE in Dickinson ND will operate an auxiliary antenna at low power for 90 days before the transition while it prepares to flash-cut to DT-09 on 2/17/09.

KAJB in Calipatra CA is tied up in coordination issues with Mexico. Mexico protested their use of channel 50 (thus why there's no digital up yet), and has not yet agreed to their use of 36. It is unknown when this will be resolved. (You'd think they'd file to use the allocation of an existing station to make things simple but...)

KFME in Fargo ND will reduce analog ERP leading up to the transition, and then will change over completely 02/17/09.

(8) WGBA will boost power to 1000 kW in August, but otherwise will just shut off analog at the end of the transition.

(9) KMTV will move digital antenna to the top of the tower as soon after 02/17/09 as weather permits.

(10) WJCL's final channel is 22, but they intend to operate channel 23 on an STA after 02/17/09 and prepare the channel 22 transmission equipment afterwards.

(11) KCBS will operate on KCAL's unbuilt CP for 495 kW.

More still to come.

- Trip

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Old 02-14-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

(b) KTCA is planning to operate TV-17 and DT-16 until the end, but is having issues with the FCC regarding DT-26. Due to the current freeze, KTCA would be forced to operate with only 12 kW on DT-26 after the transition, and is waiting on the commission to act on a petition to boost that number.

Trip,

This is for KTCI, right? KTCA looks like a normal filing.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:28 PM
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This was posted in the HOTP thread about FCC Chairman Kevin Martin posting a letter to the broadcasters about his concerns on the analog low power stations being left out in the digital transition: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post13110673. The actual PDF file is at http://www.fcc.gov/commissioners/mar...ter_021208.pdf.

The scary part is he thinks that the full power stations should volunteer to carry the LP stations as digital sub-channels on a temporary basis. I agree with the gist of Foxeng's reply in that thread. NOW he thinks the converter boxes should have RF passthrough when off? He is the Chairman of the FCC, surely someone must have pointed this out to him some time ago and he could have pushed a requirement for this through. Of course, LP stations could publicize how to insert a splitter to run the antenna signal to both the analog tuner on the TV and the converter box. Not that hard, but yes, confusing to some people.

Here we are, a year from the digital transition for full power stations. Where is the FCC on issuing rules on the conversion of the Class A and low power stations? If a Class A or LP station is ready and willing to perform a digital flash cut conversion on February 17, 2009 and it doesn't present a interference problem to another station, will the FCC allow them to do this? I would think they would, but has the FCC officially said so and provided procedures to do this yet?
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:48 PM
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For those who don't frequent the HOTP thread, here is my comment in full:

Quote:


While I have nothing against LP TV stations, it isn't the fault of full power broadcasters, cablers or equipment manufacturers that this "loophole" has been allowed to exist. I do place some blame on the LP stations themselves because most truly believed that this day would never come. And some of the smaller LP owners still believe it will not happen even though the ship is about completely underwater. As I said several years ago, that train had left the station and those not on board were doomed. We now see who are doomed. Had the FCC committee developing the requirements for the DTV converters thought this through to its logical conclusion and required equipment to provide a pass-through relay connected to the power supply, a literal $2 part, we wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately, this has been SOP with the whole digital transition from day one when the reason changed from providing the public better TV to paying off the national debt. I am not surprised the Chairman is now running for cover and begging for help from the very people he and his predecessors haven't been looking after during this whole process.

I don't think Chairman Martin's request will hit many ears in a positive manner nor do I see full power broadcasters putting LP stations on subchannels on a temp basis unless there are previous agreements in place.

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Old 02-14-2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Trip,

This is for KTCI, right? KTCA looks like a normal filing.

Yeah, they're easy enough to get confused. =Þ

I scrapped all the directional arrays from the list. It cut the size of the page by a third--from 74KB down to just under 50KB.

Anyway, here's the last few stations. Just in time to relax a few hours before tomorrow's pile of filings.

Analog to the end:
WCSH, WXMI, WGN, KTIV, WKOW, WVVA, WYOW

Flash-cut 02/17/09:
WMEM, WCBB

Flash-cut on or before 02/17/09:
WCLJ

Two plans:
KBDI
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=22685

I'll have the next wave some time after midnight, though I may end up doing the list tomorrow in the same manner as today ended up.

- Trip

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Old 02-14-2008, 08:55 PM
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I've posted the facilities for stations that have filed Form 387 and are in markets #100 or larger. My eyes have started to hate me, so I need to rest them before the FCC filings show up after midnight.

- Trip

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Old 02-14-2008, 10:12 PM
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136 new filings. I don't feel much like doing them all now... maybe I'll put them off til Saturday, I'm pretty wiped out, and tomorrow evening I'm going to see John Oliver do standup...

- Trip

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Old 02-14-2008, 11:36 PM
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Figure I'll get started a bit early...

AAA-ADL

Analog to the end, digital complete:
KRBC, WYOU, WTVO, WUTR, KAMC, WFXU, WSRE, KOOD, KSWK, KDCK*, KWKS*, WEBA, WHMC, WJPM, WJWJ, WNEH, WNSC, WNTV, WRET, WRLK, WRJA, WLNE, WLVI, WTIU, KTBS, KVDA, KDEN, KXTX, KSTS, KWHY, KVEA, KTAS, WVIT, WTVJ, WXIN, KCWC, WRC, KNTV, WMAQ, KPLR, WSNS, WSFL, WGXA, KNSD, KXAS, WKAQ

Flash-cutting analog on 2/17/09:
WITV

Silencing analog, returning on new channel:
KLCW

Awaiting FCC action:
WCOV

WVXF in the US Virgin Islands will be silencing their analog around 02/01/09 to prepare to flash-cut the channel 17 transmitter to digital. It will start operating again 02/18/09.

* Already flash-cut or signed on digital-only.

EDIT: Interesting note, WPCW's filing is in this batch; I went ahead and read it and it contains the details from beginning to end of how we ended up here with WPCW having no digital. In fact, at this time it STILL has no digital, and doesn't have one specified in the final table of allocations either. Though channel 11 has been "proposed," since it has not been adopted WPCW can't apply for anything. Furthermore, CBS already spent $500k on a channel 49 antenna it can't use. The FCC made blunder after blunder and if I were in WPCW's shoes, I'd be rather upset.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2008, 06:49 AM
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Do people not understand how to do these filings? KIXE's has a part that seems to be completely wrong.

More of yesterday's filings (ADM-AEL):

Analog to the end, just shutting it off when it's over:
KBLR, WILL, WPXT, WKBD, KGPE, KGET, KION, KMCB

Digital-only, digital is final:
KCGE, KMDE

Silencing analog early:
KIXE (08/22/08)

Will flash cut 02/17/09:
KCAL, KTVT, KSTW, KCCO, KCCW, KBRR

Special case:
WPCW
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=69880

More still to come.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2008, 12:47 PM
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More:

Shutting off analog at the end, digital finished:
KWET, KTCW, WBUI, KOET, KCOY, WCCU, KVOS, WRSP, KMTR, WSYR, WWTI, KLRT, KAAS, KASN, KOED, KOKI, KSAS, WFQX, KUCW, KJZZ, WOLF, WHRM, WHLA, WQMY, KNVO, KTVX, KLUZ, WAWS, KCPT, WJKT, KXMA, KXMD, KINT, KTFN, WJTC, WLMT, WPTY, WGFL, KTUL, WTEV, WDSI, WPBY, WNPB**, WLOV, WQTO, KMYT, KPTS, WXXV, WMGT, KIKU

Flash cut 02/17/09:
KOED, KETA, KXMB, KETA, KOED, KXMC, KHET***, KOBF, KJRR, KGUN, KSTP

Awaiting FCC action:
KMEB, KAAL

Already digital-only, done:
WTLF

Pegasus stations that need to flash cut but whose filings contain few or no details:
WSWB, WTLH

Little or no information:
KSCI

KSAX will fit in the first category, but will operate channel 42 with an STA for up to three months while it builds out final facilities with the UHF transmitter from WHEC.

WMTJ in Puerto Rico has yet to build out its digital facilities, but once they are done will fall into the first category, analog to the end.

WMGM has already reduced analog power, but otherwise fits in the first category.

KSTC will operate channel 44 with an STA for a few months until the channel 45 transmitter is converted to digital.

** WNPB will move digital antenna to the top of the tower within 6 months after 02/17/09.

*** Will halve power in Summer 2008.

Pegasus needs to find someone who can file a form.

And that's it for today; the page will be updated to reflect all of these in the next few hours. Then I'll do some facility work.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2008, 12:48 PM
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You may have some time to catch up -- I've been following central and eastern Iowa and western Illinois and have noticed a lull since Wednesday.

I'm especially chomping at the bit for Des Moines-Ames, IA, where it appears every station but KDSM will either be moving or flash-cutting.

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Old 02-15-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dline View Post

You may have some time to catch up -- I've been following central and eastern Iowa and western Illinois and have noticed a lull since Wednesday.

I'm especially chomping at the bit for Des Moines-Ames, IA, where it appears every station but KDSM will either be moving or flash-cutting.

Well, no filings appear over the weekend, so I'll try and fill in all the facilities if I can, including any new ones that have been filed. I'm going to complete as much as there is data for.

But over 1000+ stations are showing up Monday and Tuesday mornings. I'm going to fall waaaaay behind before I get caught up again, and I've got three exams next week, so don't expect a finished list before next Sunday, though it could happen.

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Old 02-15-2008, 01:36 PM
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Monday is Presidents' day. FCC employees don't work that day.

Does this mean it will be Wednesday (late Tuesday night) before they get any more filings up on the web?
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:54 PM
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Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?

Thanks.

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Old 02-15-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?

Yes. A station doing a digital flash cut will turn off the analog transmission and fire up a digital transmission on the same channel.

Responding to the other posts, Monday is a federal holiday. So will the stations who have not filed Form 387 still be expected to file by February 18? How automated is the process of putting the submitted Form 387s in the database? It is possible that the FCC staff will have someone processing stuff over the weekend, as the schedule on all this is tight.

I assume that some stations will be late by a day or two. As it stands, the count I get with the FCC application search page is 522 stations so far. That leaves close to 1300 to go. Maybe one way to break this task down is to do it by state once almost all the filings are in to make sure that a station is not overlooked. I plan to review all the stations in the Washington DC and Baltimore DMAs to see what their plans are for my own summary.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?

Thanks.

Larry
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Yes, that's what it means.

It means that on some date, (Feb. 17, 2009 or before) they will shut off their analog signal and start their digital on the same channel.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:17 PM
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I made a mistake, KPTS is going to leave DT-29 on but on an STA until they replace the analog channel 8 transmitter with a new digital one.

I imagine that all the rest of the filings will pour in after midnight on Monday evening. I had forgotten about President's Day, so that's one more day I have to get caught up I suppose.

My page is now updated with all Forms 387 filed to this point.

- Trip

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Old 02-15-2008, 03:47 PM
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Stations who file today will be posted over the weekend (usually on Saturday morning after 4am). FCC Form 387 is an on line form only so even though the FCC is closed Monday, stations are still expected to have filed by the end of the day Monday. Those results should be available Tuesday morning after the normal 4am update.

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Old 02-15-2008, 06:18 PM
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I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

I assume that some stations will be late by a day or two. As it stands, the count I get with the FCC application search page is 522 stations so far. That leaves close 1300 to go. Maybe one way to break this task down is to do by state once almost all the filings are in to make sure that a station is not overlooked. I plan to review all the stations in the Washington DC and Baltimore DMAs to see what their plans are for my own summary.

That's about as good a plan as any. The Cedar Rapids thread has at least a couple of folks looking for these transition forms, and if every local thread had one or two members checking this stuff out for their area, we should be well-covered.

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Old 02-15-2008, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

Originally that was true but here of lately it has morphed into a station that turns off analog and immediately turns on a digital signal on the same channel since so many stations are actually do that.

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Old 02-15-2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

Well, go read the FCC filings for yourself. They use the term all over the place. It's not that I picked the term.

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Old 02-15-2008, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

Stations who file today will be posted over the weekend (usually on Saturday morning after 4am). FCC Form 387 is an on line form only so even though the FCC is closed Monday, stations are still expected to have filed by the end of the day Monday. Those results should be available Tuesday morning after the normal 4am update.

I usually see them show up right after midnight, and on the nearest weekday. So last Friday's filings showed up Monday morning just after midnight.

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Old 02-16-2008, 06:10 PM
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Well, for the last time for some time, my list now SHOULD be fully up to date. Every piece of data available on the FCC site relating to post-transition operation should now be listed. If you find any mistakes, please let me know.

- Trip

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Old 02-16-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Silencing analog, returning on new channel:
KLCW

I was following up on some of the stations. KLCW, CW affilliate in the Lubbock DMA, is TV 22, DT 43. According to their filing attachments, KLCW-DT is on the air at STA power of 39 kW? (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=617272). Their filing is for a CP to increase the DT power to meet their post-transition level. Analog will stay on the air until 02/17/09. Form 367 at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=77719.

But Wikipedia and Falcon_77's DTV Analysis sheet list the station as not having a digital channel. So did KLCW start up a digital signal on UHF 43 recently? [edit - apparently not]

PS. I take this back. Looks like poor wording in their filing. It is the analog signal that is at STA power. The plan is to be ready to fire up a DT 43 channel by end of October, 2008, but analog stays on the air until the bitter end.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Little or no information:
KSCI

KSCI is the only local station that has responded to my inquiries in the recent past. Perhaps I can find out what is going on. I certainly hope the 4.5kW transmitter is a backup as they are filed for 111kW.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

KSCI is the only local station that has responded to my inquiries in the recent past. Perhaps I can find out what is going on. I certainly hope the 4.5kW transmitter is a backup as they are filed for 111kW.

4.5 kW sounds reasonable for their full-powered transmitter.

Realize that ERP does not equal transmitter power output. For instance, a transmitter puts no power straight up; nobody to receive it.

ERP is the amount of power that is transmitted toward the horizon. The antenna is designed to redirect power toward the horizon and somewhat below it.

For example, my local FOX station back home has a 60.3 kW analog transmitter, but their ERP is 2690 kW. Divide that out and you find that the ERP is 44 times higher than the power of the transmitter just because of that.

KSCI is only 24 times higher. Definitely reasonable.

DISCLAIMER: I don't fully understand the physics of it or whatnot, and my explanation may even be wrong, but my numbers are accurate even if the reasoning isn't.

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