The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 7371 Old 02-19-2008, 09:37 PM
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339. Still small.

- Trip

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post #632 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 07:28 AM
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One of the filings that came in last night is a rather interesting one, and one of my major-network locals (WVUE "FOX8", New Orleans).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....7&fac_num=4149

Analog frequency: 8
Pre-Transition: 29
Post-Transition: 8

Highlights of their plan:
  • Last week of December (circa Dec. 26): Terminate analog service.
  • Then, begin rebuilding analog channel 8 transmitter to replace NTSC exciter with ATSC exciter and necessary digital filters. They estimate this will take less than 1 week.
  • When above is complete, switch off Pre-transition 29 and switch on post-transition 8. This will happen on or before Dec. 31, 2008.

Because of the above plan, they indicate they will be applying for (none applied for yet):
  • Construction permit to do the above.
  • Early termination of analog signal.
  • Early transition to post-transition digital frequency.


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post #633 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:


There will be some unhappy OTA viewers in the outer edges of the Raleigh market.

Many will probably need to tune into WNCT, WFMY or WBTW for CBS coverage during this time period. Those signals reach way into WRAL's area.

As for FOX, no doubt quite a few OTA will be missing out for a time.
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post #634 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:03 AM
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Trip,

I noticed that KSBW and KCBA are missing from your list under Monterey, Calif. I'm particularly interested to see if KSBW is going to use their omni antenna on channel 8 after the transition.

Thanks,

Chuck


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post #635 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Okay, I'm in the middle of working on this, right? I'm just about done with Arizona, and I might just finish in time for tonight's pile, if there is one.

There's one filing that has just stopped me in my tracks.

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the @$%& is going on in this one?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=74449

- Trip

Looks like some of it may have been cut and pasted from this one:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....7&fac_num=5290

Someone is going to have to amend these two because they both appear to have a bunch of mistakes.
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post #636 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I noticed that KSBW and KCBA are missing from your list under Monterey, Calif. I'm particularly interested to see if KSBW is going to use their omni antenna on channel 8 after the transition.

KSBW's form 387 was posted last night: analog 8, pre-DT 10, post-DT 8. Looks like a straightforward flash cut on February 17, 2009 to the current ch 8 antenna, so they will be using their omni antenna. Planning to file for expanded DTV facility after filing freeze is lifted. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=19653 and http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=619032.

KCBA - does not appear to have been posted yet.

If you want to look up the 387's yourself, go to http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/p...d/app_sear.htm. Select Form Number 387 & Service: TV station and then call sign or state or date to filter as you need.

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet and/or Trip in VA has updated his list at rabbitears.com, this will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA
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post #637 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet, that will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA.

I'm working at about half the pace of Trip, with roughly 150 done for the 303 posted earlier this week. I can now understand how draining it is looking at dozens of gray screens in one night.

I'm discovering a lot of old data for the Appendix B on which the spreadsheet was originally based. Some stations have been operating for years on licensed facilities that are not reflected in the post-transition table. The most glaring examples are the stations that were on the WTC.

KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I have posted my most recent updates to the same post from earlier. Maybe I should just link it on a signature.


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post #638 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet, that will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA.

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

I'm slowly making my way through the filings... it's a lot of work to juggle in between prep for two exams today, and a lab and a continuation of an exam tomorrow.

And since I typically start with the east coast (where I'm more familiar with the stations) and move west, it takes me even longer to get to the stations out west. Sorry.

Interesting note about WVUE, I wonder what's making them do it so early? Especially considering that it's a network station like that. I haven't seen many network stations doing things like that; most are juggling things around to keep the analog on the air until the last possible moment.

- Trip

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post #639 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

I'm working at about half the pace of Trip, with roughly 150 done for the 303 posted earlier this week. I can now understand how draining it is looking at dozens of gray screens in one night.

No kidding. It's a rough job but someone (preferrably someone who's interested, like myself) has to do it. So I post the data in easy-to-read form.

Quote:


I'm discovering a lot of old data for the Appendix B on which the spreadsheet was originally based. Some stations have been operating for years on licensed facilities that are not reflected in the post-transition table. The most glaring examples are the stations that were on the WTC.

Some stations NEVER operated at Appendix B facilities. WDBJ in my market has been at 1988' 460 kW ND since they signed on, but the FCC table reflected the proposed "replication" facilities they assigned way back in 1998 of 2001' 605 kW DA.

I'm not sure, but some of the WTC stuff may have been left in place in hopes that the Freedom Tower might be done in time for the transition. I know a lot of stations plan to move there (but leave auxiliary stuff in the ESB I'd hope).

Quote:


KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I may as well post the most recent updates I have so far.

That one was interesting. A few summers back my family went out west and we ended up going to Sutro (best part of the whole trip if you ask me). I could only marvel at how much stuff was on that tower. Apparently there's more than I thought.

- Trip

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post #640 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip.


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post #641 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip.

Haha, thanks for the kind words. I'd like to know more from WBRA as well, maybe I'll call them over Spring Break.

Am I reading these filings correctly:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=64550
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=64549

If I'm understanding them, they say they want to just silence WQOW and WXOW on 02/17/09?

- Trip

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post #642 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

Ok, I fixed my post. Your summary list of the digital transition is also useful! BTW, I was looking at your listings page for Washington DC market and there are errors on there. WNVT has no analog channel, WHUT 32 - after years of delay fired up their digital 33 channel last fall, etc.

Sorting through the plans for all 1800 stations is a huge task. It is not helped by the number of stations submitting incomplete or typo filled applications. My hat is off to you and Falcon_77 at even attempting this. I'm just doing some spot checks. And still waiting for all the DC and Baltimore stations plans to be posted. I'll follow up on your "what a mess" and complicated stations to see if I can figure out what they are doing. But if this all takes another week or two, that's ok.

I assume the FCC will do the same process for the low power stations. Anyone up to reviewing the transition plans for 2,794 LPs? Aieeee...
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post #643 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

Ok, I fixed my post. Your summary list of the digital transition is also useful! BTW, I was looking at your listings page for Washington DC market and there are errors on there. WNVT has no analog channel, WHUT 32 - after years of delay fired up their digital 33 channel last fall, etc.

WNVT operated analog 53 for many years, though I know they no longer map to it.

I know that the listings are out of date--severely--but I got sick of entering all those coordinates and technical data by hand. If I can find someone to help me code an automated system to pull the technical data from the FCC, I'll add the histories and programming data myself, but updating it as it is can be quite a pain in the neck.

Quote:


Sorting through the plans for all 1800 stations is a huge task. It is not helped by the number of stations submitting incomplete or typo filled applications. My hat is off to you and Falcon_77 at even attempting this. I'm just doing some spot checks. And still waiting for all the DC and Baltimore stations plans to be posted. I'll follow up on your "what a mess" and complicated stations to see if I can figure out what they are doing. But if this all takes another week or two, that's ok.

Yeah, some of them I just did that because the explanations would be too long to fit within a reasonable amount of space on the page, such as WLRN and KTCA (or is it KTCI? =P ), while the ones I don't understand I'm trying to post here and get an understanding of.

Quote:


I assume the FCC will do the same process for the low power stations. Anyone up to reviewing the transition plans for 2,794 LPs? Aieeee...

I don't know that they would. Some are going to cut over on 02/17/09 anyway, just to keep up, and the rest are probably translators out west or stations that will switch over on their own soon enough.

If they did though, I'd gladly do at least the eastern half of the US, where the number of translators is relatively limited. Can't say I'd want to do the west, though I would probably end up doing it anyway.

- Trip

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post #644 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Interesting note about WVUE, I wonder what's making them do it so early? Especially considering that it's a network station like that. I haven't seen many network stations doing things like that; most are juggling things around to keep the analog on the air until the last possible moment.

- Trip

Strange, huh?

This is exactly why it caught my eye so much. WGNO/WNOL/WDSU have Katrina-damage motivations for unusual transition stuff. WVUE does not.

Early changeover due to contractor availability, maybe?

That being said, WVUE is quite arguably the most advanced digital broadcaster in New Orleans, in terms of aggressively updating their equipment. They were the first in the area with an HD news broadcast, for example, by many months.

This despite having been for sale since 2004 (with no buyer in sight)...


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post #645 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip.

Done!

Gilbert
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post #646 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Am I reading these filings correctly:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=64550
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=64549

If I'm understanding them, they say they want to just silence WQOW and WXOW on 02/17/09?

- Trip

It looks like analog will remain until 2/17/09 at full power and that construction for the final DTV top mounted facilities will not begin until thereafter. I'm assuming that the current DTV facilities will continue to operate until the new full-power facilities are available, but I don't see it specifically stated.

They should have used the template that I see on about half of the filing with attached exhibits.

I can't blame some of these stations though. I don't think I'd want to be scaling towers in Wisconsin and many other areas over the winter months.


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post #647 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

It looks like analog will remain until 2/17/09 at full power and that construction for the final DTV top mounted facilities will not begin until thereafter. I'm assuming that the current DTV facilities will continue to operate until the new full-power facilities are available, but I don't see it specifically stated.

Okay, good catch; I didn't see that they had STA facilities to operate. The filing makes it sound like they have no digital on the air at all.

I'm working my way through Florida and Alabama at the moment, once I get Mississippi, I'm going to go ahead and upload what I have. It'll be everything east of the Mississippi except for Louisiana and Minnesota, which don't count due to location.

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post #648 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 01:51 PM
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The FCC Daily Report was WAY late today. This may indicate that the FCC is still sifting through the remander of the 387's. This could be an interesting night run.

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post #649 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 03:11 PM
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I've posted everything to the line of states ND-SD-KS-NE-OK, but not Texas yet (with 36 filings).

Off to try to not fail a Calc exam.

- Trip

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post #650 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 07:50 PM
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Everything's in the list but the latest stuff from Texas. There are 36 entries to do there and my eyes are starting to hurt. Check out some of the more interesting entries in the list.

I hope to get the Texas stuff done before midnight; I likely won't post an update when I get it uploaded.

EDIT: I'm finished. I will taste the sweet taste of victory... well, for about 32 minutes, then new ones start coming in I assume. Lots of big names are still missing, so I'd imagine more will come in tonight.

EDIT2: Looks like more are coming in, and they're dated Tuesday. Guess the FCC got backlogged.

- Trip

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post #651 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 09:14 PM
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Is 358 the magic number? I still see a few missing, but that captures most of them as far as I can tell.

At least I have something to do tomorrow. =P

- Trip

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post #652 of 7371 Old 02-20-2008, 11:01 PM
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I'm about ready to go to bed, but here's where I stand.

PA, WV, VA, NC, SC, GA. All states east of those states (inclusive) have been finished and added to my list. PR is the exception; I'll probably wrap that up last since it's a pain.

I suppose what's amusing me most are the stations that are not listed. Either a couple of stations that needed to file didn't do so (WLOS, WLFL, WABC, WPIX, WTVZ, for example) or there's more filings still to come.

My list is now almost 147KB! That's gigantic, and doesn't even have facilities for most stations yet. And it still has to gain today's wave of stations.

Anyway, I need some sleep now. Have part two of my Computer Science exam, a Physics lab, and two lectures. Plus this stuff.

- Trip

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post #653 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 12:04 AM
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Quote:


KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I may as well post the most recent updates I have so far.
---End Quote---
That one was interesting. A few summers back my family went out west and we ended up going to Sutro (best part of the whole trip if you ask me). I could only marvel at how much stuff was on that tower. Apparently there's more than I thought.

- Trip

I live just 3/4 of a mile directly east of Sutro Tower. I get a beautiful view of it out of my living room window. There are facilities for 10 analog, 11 digital and 4 FM stations up there right now. Quite impressive! For a view of what's where on the tower, check out my Sutro page:
http://www.larrykenney.com/sutrotwr.html

As far as what's coming up during the next year, here's the plan. Right now, all 11 digital stations are transmitting from four antennas mounted below the top of the tower using combiners . (See the diagram mentioned above.) They are going to build a new set of combined backup antennas for the digital stations down low on the tower. The stations will switch to the backup antennas when they're finished and ready. The present digital antennas will then be removed.

The 10 permanent UHF digital stations have agreed to combined antennas and feedline systems which will be installed on the towers replacing the VHF antennas for channels 2, 4, 5 and 9, which will no long be used and will be coming down. Only one VHF station will remain on the tower - KGO-DT 7 - after the transition, and it will be the only stand alone antenna.

I have no idea what the time line will be for all of this. It's going to be very interesting to watch the progress. I'll post photos on my Sutro site as things develop.

Also, Trip, Falcon and afiggatt... I'll be checking the 387 information for the SF-SanJose, Sacramento and Monterey DMAs as it's posted. If I see any oddities, I'll let you know.

Larry
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post #654 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 06:40 AM
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This just popped up on the FCC site today.

This isn't a form 387, but it is certainly related to the DTV transition process:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=54280

It's a request by WNOL-TV for "instant STA" to commence transmitting on their post-transition frequency, 15, now. From the new WDSU/WNOL/WGNO site.

As I outlined earlier in this thread. WGNO (ABC) and WNOL (CW) (both owned by Tribune) had their pre-transition DT facilities and their analog facilities completely destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. WGNO's pre-transition DT frequency (fully functional before Katrina) was 15. WNOL's pre-transition frequency (also fully functional before Katrina) was 40.

What they've done is simply jury-rigged temporary low-power analog service under STA which they'll shut down on the transition date.

They saw no point in re-building their pre-transition stuff so they just built their post-transition stuff now.

Neither channel's form 387 has showed up yet, but as I outlined in a post above, their plan is:
  • Commence WNOL-DT on post-transition 15 now.
  • Flash-cut WGNO on Feb 17, 2009. (Analog 26 to digital 26). WGNO will continue to provide WGNO-DT HD content on physical channel 50.2 (WPXL's transmitter) until Feb. 17, 2009. (50.2 currently maps to 26-1 on all but the most ancient of ATSC tuners.)
  • Run their low-power STA analog transmitters until Feb 17, 2009.

I wait with baited breath to see their form 387's show up. They ought to be an interesting read.


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post #655 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Is 358 the magic number? I still see a few missing, but that captures most of them as far as I can tell.

I see 354 new filings posted last night. The totals as of today are 387s for 1506 stations and 16 amendments so far for oops, we submitted the 387 w/o careful proofreading and made typos. If they are processing roughly 300+ a day, odds are good that they will get close to wrapping up the postings for all 1800 stations after midnight tonight. There are still several stations missing from the Washington DC DMA, but most of them are in. But a number of them asking for higher post-trans power levels.

WDCA 20, WTTG 5 (DT 35) in DC: analog off 2/17/2009, on post-DT assignments. WTTG will file to meet the 1000 kW power specified in Appendix B and will increase power(?).

WJLA ABC 7 in DC: analog 7, pre-DTV 39, post DT 7. Reduce analog power by 50% around 01/01/2009, flash cut on 02/18/2009 (I hope they mean at midnight?), will turn off DT 39 only after DT 7 broadcast is confirmed to be stable. Cool, identical broadcasts on 2 different physical channels.

WBAL NBC 11, pre-DT 59, post-DT 11: may run analog at reduced power for transmitter mods, flash cut 02/17/2009, will file to increase post-transition contour coverage (with higher power I would guess).

WMAR ABC 2, pre-DT 52, post-DT 38: taking over WJZ's current DT 38 antenna 02/17/2009, analog off 02/17/2009, wants to increase post-trans power from 775 kW specifed to WJZ-DT current 1000 kW, putting up new antennas after 02/17/2009 as discussed in WJZ's filing.

WUTB My 24, pre & post-DT 41: still at STA power of 530 Watts, analog off 02/17/2009, waiting on amended application before going to full DT power? Last holdout at STA power in Balt-Wash markets except for WHAG-DT in Hagerstown.

WJAL 63, pre-DT 16, post-DT 39: antenna is located in PA some 70 miles from DC, serves Hagerstown, MD, but is in the Washington DC DMA. Some odd stuff here. WJAL-DT was reported to have gone to 50 kW on DT 16 very recently. They plan to "flash cut" to DT 39 using existing facilities, but have asked to move community of license to Silver Spring, MD? Are they looking to take over WJLA-DT's abandoned DT 39 hardware and set up a new broadcast out of DC? Hard to serve Hagerstown, DC from a broadcast tower in NW DC. This is an independent, so are they trying to make a move to a major city under the cover of the digital transition, because hey, it is in the same DMA?
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post #656 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

WJAL 63, pre-DT 16, post-DT 39: antenna is located in PA some 70 miles from DC, serves Hagerstown, MD, but is in the Washington DC DMA. Some odd stuff here. WJAL-DT was reported to have gone to 50 kW on DT 16 very recently. They plan to "flash cut" to DT 39 using existing facilities, but have asked to move community of license to Silver Spring, MD? Are they looking to take over WJLA-DT's abandoned DT 39 hardware and set up a new broadcast out of DC? Hard to serve Hagerstown, DC from a broadcast tower in NW DC. This is an independent, so are they trying to make a move to a major city under the cover of the digital transition, because hey, it is in the same DMA?

They filed to move WJAL-DT from Hagerstown to Silver Spring a few years ago so as to bring a new signal to DC. Entravision (who owns WJAL) wants to put TeleFutura on WJAL I believe, but cable companies will not carry the signal unless it actually covers DC. WJAL wanted to move DT-16 to DC in order to provide this signal, but this was denied due to the land-mobile reservations on channels 17 and 18 at least.

They want DT-39 so whether they use WJLA-DT's facilities or build their own, there will be no technical reason to disallow it (except, of course, WJZ-DT and WNUV-DT in Baltimore being too close, but we'll see what the FCC has to say about that one since they have WJLA-DT there just fine...).

I've done all of this morning's filings east of the Mississippi. More to come later.

- Trip

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post #657 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 08:17 AM
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KMBC-DT wants DT-29 instead of DT-09. They claim that there is a known VHF reception problem in the market and that they would be the only VHF in the market, and thus request to convert KCWE's analog transmitter/antenna to digital transmission instead of converting the KMBC analog equipment.

I haven't updated, still working through the list, just thought that one was interesting. Another market that's all UHF.

- Trip

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post #658 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick0725 View Post

how would you analyze this data

#078 Rochester, New York
WHEC NBC 10 58 10 499.' ???? kW ND 20080212ACD Will reduce power around August 2008.

please explain what it means

As noted on the page, from left to right:

Call letters, network, current analog channel, current digital channel, final digital channel, facilities (I have yet to add these on many stations), and then any additional details.

- Trip

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post #659 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 10:28 AM
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Wow.

KOFT in Farmington, NM is not going to survive the transition. H-A has asked the FCC to delete the station, it apparently signed off in November.

H-A implies they're considering the same sort of thing for KOVT and KOCT.

All the other NM satellites (of KOB, KRQE) are making it into the digital age... so Farmington will have CBS, NBC, PBS, and Telemundo, but no ABC.

- Trip

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post #660 of 7371 Old 02-21-2008, 01:55 PM
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Alright, I've uploaded my latest page. It has everything in it except for Puerto Rico and the non-Oahu (Honolulu) Hawaiian islands. I'll clear those areas up when I return from class.

- Trip

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