The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 238 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7111 of 7375 Old 08-25-2011, 07:40 AM
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Zeroth , THANKS TRIP for what you have done

First, I've not tried this on rabbitears.

Spreadsheets are wonderful tools. I use Excel, and ASSUME it works in openoffice CALC.

Mark the unsorted or missorted data
paste special text into a spreadsheet
sort as you wish

common thing for me to do with all sorts of stuff the provider makes available but not as I want it ... can be made to work about 90% of the time.

George
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post #7112 of 7375 Old 08-25-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

The secondary column heading either has to be in with the individual listings, or gone completely. Some stations have an "Hours" column that I hide if the station does not use it to save space. See a station like W47EE-D, which I have attached.

...

As you can see in the image, I have some management tools built into that secondary column header as well. I'd have to find new homes for those controls.

As for hiding the Technical Data and Historical Data lines, I'm not sure how much that really helps matters. If anything, in my mind, it makes them harder to find and might mislead people into thinking there is less data available. You might be surprised how many people actually do want to know what a station's power or coverage area or bitrate is. I see those items cited about as often on message boards and web pages as I do the subchannel listings themselves, and I'm not sure hiding that information really helps that much.

All of that said, of late I've been working on a project which might help to alleviate your concerns, or you might feel that it goes too far. I'm not prepared to do a public release yet and may not be able to for some time, but if you're interested in having a very early look, send me a PM and I'll give you a link.

I'm genuinely curious about the opinions of others; do others feel as SHF does that the main listings need work in this fashion?

- Trip

Hi,

Please understand that I am thinking about the reaction of a viewer that see these pages for the very first time, I was in that set as it has been many blue moons since my last visit due to Larry's great work for my local market.

The UseNet discussion was a set of bad information, links to untrustworthy sites and ended only when I gave a link to Rabbitears saying that what I really wanted to link to was not available. (RF Sort)

-----------------------------------

> The secondary column heading either has to be in with the individual listings, or gone completely.

Clicking on an individual station is and should be a path to more information about that single station. (Drill down was the term used.) A individual station where "Technical Data and Screencaps" and "Historical, Ownership, Transition, and Translator Data" would be of interest.

It is when the users switch to expanded that it's like a bucket of mud has been thrown at the screen.

At that point the interest has shifted to the entire set of stations, and I am looking for removing the mud, if "secondary column heading gone completely" is an option, I would like to see a mockup of that to further refine my comments.

> Some stations have an "Hours" column that I hide if the station does not use it to save space. See a station like W47EE-D, which I have attached.

Changing (11p-09p) (09p-11p) to (11PM-09PM) (09PM-11PM) would make eliminating the "secondary column heading" less of a problem.

> As you can see in the image, I have some management tools built into that secondary column header as well. I'd have to find new homes for those controls.

It has been my thinking that they are in the wrong place right from the start.

Once a market is chosen then the displays should be limited to that market with a method to return to that page. New windows are created at times, that possibility should be in the mix. That may simplify the moving of controls to new homes.

The "secondary column heading" description I have seen most often as a static information pane outside of the data array, I moved it to one occurrence in my mockup but totally outside of the data array at all times is a better and simpler solution.

" As for hiding the Technical Data and Historical Data lines, I'm not sure how much that really helps matters. If anything, in my mind, it makes them harder to find and might mislead people into thinking there is less data available. You might be surprised how many people actually do want to know what a station's power or coverage area or bitrate is. I see those items cited about as often on message boards and web pages as I do the subchannel listings themselves, and I'm not sure hiding that information really helps that much."

The Dummy's guide to Rabitears book would need to be updated to address the presenting of more data as the site is "drilled down into" and the market pages are the pages I would link to most often I suspect.

-----------------------------

New first time viewer:

1) open http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php

Very good first page, well presented, the user now understands that the data is organized by "Digital TV Markets" and their market can be found by selecting their major city or a station in their market.

Some will be taken off into the wilderness by clicking on the number in the "Rank" column, I will ignore this and the duplicate numbers with "()".

2A) If they use the "Call Sign" option they are taken to their market and that station. Having the "secondary column heading" description displayed is just fine. Still a very good page, well presented but the first time viewer may have problems understanding how to get to "2B) and why they would want to.

2B) If they click on their major city they are taken to their market. Still a very good page, well presented, and they can see all the stations in their market.

3) They click on "Expand/Contract All". Very bad news!!! What do their eyes see but a huge amount of noise overpowering the data!

My mockup would be much more useful in that the sub-channels for their market are all displayed and they can begin to understand what really is going on.

An alternative is to re-label the "Print" button (Which does not print the page on a real printer like most other web pages I see do.) to indicate that is a page with the noise filtered out.

That is a much better page to display to the viewer when they click on "Expand/Contract All".

A button could then lead to the very noisy page that is currently display saying "Press for detailed information about the entire set of stations in their market".

I have to do other things right now and wish to wait a bit for other ideas to be posted.

SHF
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post #7113 of 7375 Old 08-25-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

Clicking on an individual station is and should be a path to more information about that single station. (Drill down was the term used.) A individual station where "Technical Data and Screencaps" and "Historical, Ownership, Transition, and Translator Data" would be of interest.

It is when the users switch to expanded that it's like a bucket of mud has been thrown at the screen.

At that point the interest has shifted to the entire set of stations, and I am looking for removing the mud, if "secondary column heading gone completely" is an option, I would like to see a mockup of that to further refine my comments.

Unless someone is expanding all of them to compare coverage areas and/or bitrates, in which case they will have to Contract All, then click each entry and then click each "Technical Data" link, instead of now where you can Expand All once and then click to expand the Technical Data you want. So those users now have to click twice instead of once to get to the information/link they actually want. It makes things harder in that use case, one which I use a lot personally and which I know others use as well.

Plus, you're asking for one link to go to two different things depending on context. Bear in mind that once a market is loaded up, it is loaded in full; all that clicking the call sign or Expand All link(s) do(es) is to "unhide" things that are hidden by default once the market in question is loaded up.

Quote:


Changing (11p-09p) (09p-11p) to (11PM-09PM) (09PM-11PM) would make eliminating the "secondary column heading" less of a problem.

Easy to say for the person who wouldn't have to hand-edit each entry which has hours in it. (Hours is not only a primary key in the database, it's a VARCHAR string; it's not like the bitrate numbers in the technical data that are just FLOAT numbers and "Mbps" is added in PHP.) Plus it chews up more horizontal space, which is why I chose the lower-case single-letter format in the first place.

I mean, I could do it, it just wouldn't be fun.

Quote:


It has been my thinking that they are in the wrong place right from the start.

Once a market is chosen then the displays should be limited to that market with a method to return to that page. New windows are created at times, that possibility should be in the mix. That may simplify the moving of controls to new homes.

I completely don't understand what you're saying here. Please try to clarify when time permits, as I would like to understand what you're saying.

Quote:


The "secondary column heading" description I have seen most often as a static information pane outside of the data array, I moved it to one occurrence in my mockup but totally outside of the data array at all times is a better and simpler solution.

I've actually thought about moving it in the past but I can never get it to look right. I allow my columns to be fluid in terms of width in order to allow for maximization of the use of available space, so moving the secondary column heading to the top would mean the columns in the heading often would not align with the columns in one or more of the individual station listings and would (in my opinion) look sloppy and disorganized.

Quote:


The Dummy's guide to Rabitears book would need to be updated to address the presenting of more data as the site is "drilled down into" and the market pages are the pages I would link to most often I suspect.

There is no book. I feel the moment a website needs a book to be operated, it has failed. (Parts of RabbitEars that are not the market listings already fail on that account. Just last night I finally added a key to the coverage contour/Longley-Rice map pages, and I still don't have a full set of controls on that page.)

Quote:


An alternative is to re-label the "Print" button (Which does not print the page on a real printer like most other web pages I see do.) to indicate that is a page with the noise filtered out.

That is a much better page to display to the viewer when they click on "Expand/Contract All".

There's nothing I hate more than clicking a "Printer-friendly" button on a web page for it to do nothing more than have my print dialog come up. If I wanted a print dialog, I'd have clicked the Print button in my browser. I click a "Printer-friendly" button hoping to see a less busy version of a page that I can then choose to print myself once I'm sure it won't waste paper and ink/toner printing in a manner that is unhelpful to me.

In my mind, it operates exactly the way a button labeled "Print" on a webpage should operate. It even gives you a nice "true" Print button front-row center in case you can't find your browser's Print button. Maybe I should relabel the button as "Send to Printer." Hm.

Quote:


I have to do other things right now and wish to wait a bit for other ideas to be posted.

SHF

Fair enough.

And lest I appear unappreciative, I appreciate and am glad to hear your suggestions for improvement. I often take suggestions or modify them in some way and then implement them, but it's certainly not an always thing. I do, however, always take them under consideration and put thought into them, as I'm doing with your suggestions.

One thing to keep in mind is that I feel you're looking at it from the "new to OTA" perspective, or something similar. (I cannot find the exact phrase I'm looking for.) A significant number of my users are engineers or people with interest in the engineering side of things, including people within the FCC and at television stations and engineering firms. I don't want to make things significantly harder on that group in order to make things slightly simpler for people who are sort of "passing by" as it were. What I sent in the PM is designed to deal with the "new to OTA" (or whatever it is I mean to call it) group.

I would also like to hear the opinions of others on this matter.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #7114 of 7375 Old 08-25-2011, 03:05 PM
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Hi,

I think that we are having a fail to communicate problem.

Let's let it rest for a while.

If I see an need to direct someone to your site to help them learn about PSID vs. RF channels in their market, I will be directing them directly to the "Printer Friendly" page.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...market&mktid=6

And then suggest that if that does not enable their understanding, that they go to:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php and select their market being warned that they will now be in the deep end of the pool.

If and when the RF sort "Printer Friendly" pages become available for general use I will switch to those if better to help the OP understand the answer.

In the meantime, I think that I can generate a link to the RF sort "Printer Friendly" pages for most any market and may do so. (Testing first to make sure I did it right, you may change things as the needs have been few and far between. When 32+ goes away, the need will become much greater as it will be a madhouse making we who understand rotate our heads several times before they come off.)

I have worked with many great programmers over the last 40 years and they IMHO would react just like I have. You are so good that at some point you will start to react in the same way.

SHF

P.S. (Page generated in 1314309722.06 seconds. ) It sure did not take that long.
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post #7115 of 7375 Old 08-28-2011, 05:50 AM
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I just returned from a three week tour of the British Isles - England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 95% of the TV antennas seen there were small UHF yagis with flat reflector screens. There was very little variation all over the four countries. Most homes had either an OTA antenna or satellite dish or both. In one small area of Ireland I noticed five element VHF yagis that were vertically mounted. At first I thought they were two meter ham antennas, but there were too many of them, so they had to be TV.

All of our hotels, except one, had wide screen TVs, and many of the channels were in HD. I don't know what format they use, but it looks good.

One final comment... thanks to SFischer for the nice compliments on my DTV Channel lists. They are made simple for use by the average viewer. Trip's listings have got mine beat 100 fold.

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post #7116 of 7375 Old 08-28-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

I just returned from a three week tour of the British Isles - England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 95% of the TV antennas seen there were small UHF yagis with flat reflector screens. There was very little variation all over the four countries. Most homes had either an OTA antenna or satellite dish or both. In one small area of Ireland I noticed five element VHF yagis that were vertically mounted. At first I thought they were two meter ham antennas, but there were too many of them, so they had to be TV.

The vertical antennas that you saw were for the old VHF 405 line broadcasts, which have ceased. The UHF are smaller as the UHF broadcasts are in channel groups in the various areas, allowing for the viewers to purchase antennas cut for their local area channel group.

Quote:


All of our hotels, except one, had wide screen TVs, and many of the channels were in HD. I don't know what format they use, but it looks good.

1080i25 for the HD. The SD video is anamorphic widescreen 576i.

The U.K. has been widescreen for years.

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post #7117 of 7375 Old 08-30-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

The vertical antennas that you saw were for the old VHF 405 line broadcasts, which have ceased. The UHF are smaller as the UHF broadcasts are in channel groups in the various areas, allowing for the viewers to purchase antennas cut for their local area channel group.

1080i25 for the HD. The SD video is anamorphic widescreen 576i.

The U.K. has been widescreen for years.

Thanks very much for the info, Mr. Video.

Larry
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post #7118 of 7375 Old 08-30-2011, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Thanks very much for the info, Mr. Video.

You are welcome. I was there (east coast of Scotland) from Aug '71 through Nov '73, when 405 line was still widely used.

There was one time that I put a rabbit ear antenna above the ceiling and ran RG-58 or 59 (I forget which), downstairs to the RF room and patched it up to the repair room. We then set up three oscilloscopes and two receivers. Why? So we could watch an episode of Columbo. And yes, you can turn oscilloscopes into the necessary V & H sweeps and the 3rd getting the outputs from the other two and the video for the Z.

What sucked was that we got interrupted for a problem out on the floor.

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post #7119 of 7375 Old 08-30-2011, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BPTTV View Post

but MPEG 4 takes MORE b/w than MPEG 2....and it wont fit in a 6MHz channel....so it aint gonna fly until pigs do...

That is 100% false. MPEG-4, aka H.264, does not require more bandwidth than MPEG-2. You can actually fit two H.264 video streams into the same bandwidth as MPEG-2.

H,.264 is twice as efficient as MPEG-2. One could fit two H.264 HD program streams into the same 6 MHz ATSC channel that is currently being used for one MPEG-2 HD stream.

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post #7120 of 7375 Old 08-31-2011, 12:47 PM
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back in 1949 i used a radar receiver and an oscilloscope to watch a baseball game on tv in SF.
mit
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post
You are welcome. I was there (east coast of Scotland) from Aug '71 through Nov '73, when 405 line was still widely used.

There was one time that I put a rabbit ear antenna above the ceiling and ran RG-58 or 59 (I forget which), downstairs to the RF room and patched it up to the repair room. We then set up three oscilloscopes and two receivers. Why? So we could watch an episode of Columbo. And yes, you can turn oscilloscopes into the necessary V & H sweeps and the 3rd getting the outputs from the other two and the video for the Z.

What sucked was that we got interrupted for a problem out on the floor.

Your military tax $$$ at work
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post #7121 of 7375 Old 09-01-2011, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7122 of 7375 Old 09-01-2011, 07:49 AM
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It occurred in parts of Canada.  It didn't reach the territories nor Labrador, nor the less populated areas; and if one goes takes literally the listing at the page whose link Sebenste gave, it didn't reach the Saskatchewan side of Lloydminster, but I don't believe that.
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post #7123 of 7375 Old 09-01-2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

....in Canada.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/bdt14.htm

Hi,

I found these words in that page:

Quote:


Why has Canada switched to digital television?

One of the main reasons for switching to digital television is the need for more spectrum, commonly referred to as frequencies or airwaves. Spectrum is used for wireless telephone services, emergency communications, etc.

Digital signals use less airwave space than analog signals. This means that the freed-up space can be used for other services that have a high demand for more space. Digital technology also provides better picture and sound.

So, TV channels will be disappearing from Canada also.

SHF
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post #7124 of 7375 Old 09-01-2011, 09:53 AM
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What ever we do, they do.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers. "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a couple of hours, you realize the pig likes it"
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post #7125 of 7375 Old 09-02-2011, 03:24 AM
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What ever we do, they do.

So, in Mexico, are they saying... Spectrum? Spectrum?? We don't need no stinking spectrum!

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #7126 of 7375 Old 09-02-2011, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

So, in Mexico, are they saying... Spectrum? Spectrum?? We don't need no stinking spectrum!

Mexico dances to a different drummer.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers. "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a couple of hours, you realize the pig likes it"
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post #7127 of 7375 Old 09-02-2011, 10:23 AM
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KPBI in the Fayetteville AR market is being bought by KFSM, the local CBS station. KFTA, the FOX station in that market, is another Nexstar station that will be losing FOX in the future, so I'm speculating that FOX will wind up on KPBI. However, KPBI only covers the northern half of the market. I came up with a possible transmitter configuration for them. The idea I had is a DTS with four transmitters, all on channel 34.

NOTE: This is speculation on something they COULD do, not an actual application. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest this will actually happen.

Here's the map I came up with: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...ontour=Y&map=Y

Please note that the blue contour lines are required to stay inside the green line with only a "de minimis" amount allowed outside that green line.

Site 1: The current transmitter site would be upgraded to 1000 kW, but with a slightly directional antenna to shave off a bit of the power to the north. (Antenna pattern borrowed from WFDC.)

Site 2: The tower that analog 5 was on. This tower would operate at 60 kW and use mechanical beam tilt to aim the bulk of the power down toward Fort Smith while limiting radiation toward the horizon to 500 watts or so. (Antenna pattern borrowed from KQEH.)

Site 3: A tower owned by New Live Evangelistic Center right on a line between Harrison and Fordland, for obvious reasons. 5 kW. (Antenna pattern borrowed from K23DU.)

Site 4: The KBNS-CD tower, using a highly directional antenna to hit just Branson. (Antenna pattern borrowed from WKOB-LD.)

There's no telling if they would actually build out such a thing, but I rather like the idea. Any opinions?

- Trip

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post #7128 of 7375 Old 09-03-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

The vertical antennas that you saw were for the old VHF 405 line broadcasts, which have ceased.

Ireland still uses Band III VHF in some areas for analog. It isn't clear to me yet if all DTV broadcasts there will be UHF, but it seems likely.

I'm guessing that the antennas Larry saw were Band III, but some old Band I antennas could be around as well, but there is a great resource that might help identify them:

Wright's Aerial Photography:
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...hy/index.shtml

Band III stack:
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialp...ngus/005.shtml

Or if they were bigger, some might be in the Ancient gallery:
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/aerialphotography/ancient/

Back when I was in Ireland in 1998, I remember some of the old "X" Band I aerials, which I believe were for 405 line. I don't recall the big "H" Band I aerials in Ireland, however.
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post #7129 of 7375 Old 09-08-2011, 09:26 AM
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DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. SECTION 73.622(I), FOND DU LAC, WISCONSIN.

Denied the petition for reconsideration of report and order changing DTV channel for station WWAZ-DT from 44 to 5. (Dkt No. RM-11543 09-115 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 09/06/2011 by MO&O. (DA No. 11-1502).

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...-11-1502A1.pdf

Edit: Ok, this is confusing, but appears to deny the petition (by WDJT) to deny WWAZ from moving to 5.

Quote:


Finally, we continue to believe that the public interest is served by substituting channel 5 for channel 44 at Fond du Lac because it permitted WLS-TV, an ABC network affiliate in Chicago, Illinois, to move from its post-transition channel 7 to channel 44. As stated in the Report and Order, the station and the Commission had received thousands of calls from individuals who were unable to receive station WLSTV’s signal after the transition when WLS-TV began digital-only operations on channel 7, and the substitution of channel 44 at Chicago resulted in the restoration of ABC network service to numerous viewers. While WDJT argues otherwise, this restoration of network service in Chicago on channel 44 does not result in the “disenfranchising [of[ nearly two hundred thousand rural Wisconsin viewers,” since effectively 100% of the loss area will receive service from WWAZ’s authorized replacement translator stations.

Accordingly, IT IS ORDERED, That the Petition for Reconsideration of the August 12, 2009, Report and Order, amending the DTV Table of Allotments, Section 73.622(i) of the Commission’s rules, to change station WWAZ-TV’s channel from 44 to 5 at Fond du Lac, filed by WDJT-TV Limited Partnership, IS DENIED.

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post #7130 of 7375 Old 09-08-2011, 09:46 AM
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Yes, that's what it is. It just reaffirms that WWAZ can move to 5.

WDJT runs Milwaukee's Telemundo affiliate, thus their interest in keeping WWAZ out.

- Trip

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post #7131 of 7375 Old 09-11-2011, 11:02 PM
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I did some digging into one of the nuances of the ATSC rules. Thoughts and opinions are appreciated. http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...rogram_Numbers

- Trip

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post #7132 of 7375 Old 09-12-2011, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
I did some digging into one of the nuances of the ATSC rules. Thoughts and opinions are appreciated. http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...rogram_Numbers

- Trip
The entire ATSC PID scheme is silly.

"In order to avoid collisions with fixed PID values and ranges already established in this and other international standards, PID values used to identify Transport Stream packets carrying TS_program_map_section() or program elements shall not be set below 0x0030."

Where exactly do these "collisions" occur?

Ron

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post #7133 of 7375 Old 09-12-2011, 01:13 PM
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A story in today's edition of "TV Technology" says that President Obama’s proposed jobs bill assumes that incentive TV spectrum auctions will bring around $28 billion in proceeds. The American Jobs Act, delivered to Congress last week, includes support for the Administration’s Nationwide Broadband Plan.

Read the article for all the details about the proposed auctions and the congressional bills involving the auctioning off of spectrum.

http://tvtechnology.com/article/124414

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post #7134 of 7375 Old 09-12-2011, 03:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

A story in today's edition of "TV Technology" says that President Obama's proposed jobs bill assumes that incentive TV spectrum auctions will bring around $28 billion in proceeds. The American Jobs Act, delivered to Congress last week, includes support for the Administration's Nationwide Broadband Plan.

Read the article for all the details about the proposed auctions and the congressional bills involving the auctioning off of spectrum.

http://tvtechnology.com/article/124414

Larry
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National Broadband Plan? You mean the plan where spectrum gets stolen from OTA TV so that at&t and Verizon can provide rural people with "broadband" for $80 a month for a measly 10 GB with $10 per GB overage fees? That plan?

The Rockefeller-Hutchison legislation, S.911, provides that no full-power TV licensee would be forced to give up spectrum for an incentive auction, but that those who do would receive a portion of the proceeds

And if NO ONE "volunteers" how does the government expect to get spectrum?
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post #7135 of 7375 Old 09-12-2011, 08:47 PM
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My guess is that the definition of "give up" is key. If a full-power station in the sought-after UHF spectrum is forced to move to another channel in, say, the VHF band, they weren't forced to "give up" spectrum. They started with 6 MHz and ended up with 6 MHz; they "gave up" nothing.

That's the kind of semantic games the gov't loves to play.
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post #7136 of 7375 Old 09-12-2011, 09:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dhett View Post

My guess is that the definition of "give up" is key. If a full-power station in the sought-after UHF spectrum is forced to move to another channel in, say, the VHF band, they weren't forced to "give up" spectrum. They started with 6 MHz and ended up with 6 MHz; they "gave up" nothing.

That's the kind of semantic games the gov't loves to play.

In many areas there won't be any available place to move a channel.
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post #7137 of 7375 Old 09-13-2011, 12:49 AM
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I did some digging into one of the nuances of the ATSC rules. Thoughts and opinions are appreciated. http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...rogram_Numbers

- Trip

Program 1 is used by many stations. Modern gear has user-definable PIDs, but some of the really early stuff (Flexicoder? DCII?) based the PIDs off of the program number, so when the 0x30+ requirement took effect, the easy solution was to just start using program 3 and above only. While few major stations are left using old junk like that, many have carried over the program 3+ into the modern day because to change it would break things for a lot of viewers, at least until they rescanned. Breaking things for viewers for no reason is a good way to piss off the bosses, so I doubt many engineers are going to be rearranging things any time soon. The only viewer experience with the program number is if the PSIP generator takes a crap (which you probably want to know about anyway), so I don't really see a problem with the current system.
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post #7138 of 7375 Old 09-13-2011, 04:43 AM
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... many have carried over the program 3+ into the modern day because to change it would break things for a lot of viewers, at least until they rescanned. Breaking things for viewers for no reason is a good way to piss off the bosses, so I doubt many engineers are going to be rearranging things any time soon.

Most early equipment defaulted to using the so-called program paradigm where PID values are tied to program numbers. Our orginal configuration (in 2003) started with 0x20 and program 2 because 0x10 was already not allowed. When the requirement to use 0x30 and above took effect and because the rules didn't disallow it I changed our encoding and PSIP to start with 0x30 and program number 1. What we got were phone calls from folks using older STBs that refused to tune to this scheme including one or two we had at the station (even after re-scanning).
While most newer equipment defaults to program 1 and PID 0x30 and most older ATSC STBs coupled with monitors without built-in tuners are probably retired by now, unless you're making other changes that would force users to re-scan I don't see any compelling reason to change just so the first program is called number 1 (which is hidden from the viewer and mapped to the .1 service anyway).
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post #7139 of 7375 Old 09-27-2011, 01:51 PM
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If you've ever wondered what the original WTVE 8-site DTS looked like before it was pared down to the 2 sites it has today, I figured it out and generated maps.

Contours: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=Y&size=&map=N

Longley-Rice: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=N&size=&map=Y

Both: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=Y&size=&map=Y

- Trip

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post #7140 of 7375 Old 09-29-2011, 01:14 PM
 
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If you've ever wondered what the original WTVE 8-site DTS looked like?

The sale of WTVE was announced today.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...ation-for-304m
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