The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 24 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #691 of 7380 Old 02-23-2008, 06:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Thanks! I do appreciate you running through my information; I want it to be as accurate as possible. If you happen to find any information about final digital facilities that I may miss, please let me know. All those question marks floating around are bothering me.
- Trip

I have ERP and HAAT for all stations, but none of it seems to be consistent. I think I got it from the FCC data, if I remember right. Some show the height for the top of the tower, others show the hight for the temporary combined antennas they're operating on now. Maybe we'll just have to wait until the stations submit their Application for STA or CP for the antenna change to fill in these values.

Here are my corrections and updates for SF #006, Sacramento #20 and Monterey #124:
San Francisco:
General comment for ALL Sutro Tower stations: Will be operating at reduced power on alternate antenna periodically after 02/17/09 while permanent antenna is being installed. (I added "on alternate antenna".) Will be on new permanent antenna 8/09.
KRON: Will operate on reduced power DT57 12/08 to 2/17/09, reduced power DT38 2/18/09, full power on DT38 5/31/09.
KCNS and KBCW: Final power and height unknown for these two also.
KICU: DT36 - On aux. antenna at 95% power 2/18/09. Full power on new antenna 8/18/09.
KRCB: DT23 on STA reduced power until tests with county are complete. Full power late 2008.
At bottom of SF list, KUNO is Fort Bragg, not Ukiah.

Sacramento:
KCRA: 93% power until 8/09.
KVIE: Installation of antenna needs to be coordinated with KTXL. Flash-cut 2/18/09.
KTXL: 50% power analog 40 1/09, 50% power DT40 2/18/09, full power 4/09.
KTFK: Will flash cut to new transmitter location. Now on Mt. Diablo; moving to Walnut Grove 2/18/09.

Monterey:
KSBW: Will use channel 10 antenna for DT8 until new channel 8 antenna is ready.
KQET: Using same transmitter and antenna now on DT58 for DT25. Will install mask filter and retune exciter prior to transistion. Full power DT25 on 2/17/09.

That's it!

Larry
SF

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html

Check out photos and info on my antennas: http://www. larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

Larry Kenney is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #692 of 7380 Old 02-23-2008, 07:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

General comment for ALL Sutro Tower stations: Will be operating at reduced power on alternate antenna periodically after 02/17/09 while permanent antenna is being installed. (I added "on alternate antenna".) Will be on new permanent antenna 8/09.

Yeah, that's why I'm leaving it as ???.

Quote:


KRON: Will operate on reduced power DT57 12/08 to 2/17/09, reduced power DT38 2/18/09, full power on DT38 5/31/09.
KCNS and KBCW: Final power and height unknown for these two also.

Yeah, they're all uncertain, so I'm leaving them all as ???.

Quote:


KICU: DT36 - On aux. antenna at 95% power 2/18/09. Full power on new antenna 8/18/09.

95% power to 100% power makes so little difference that I'm not bothering listing little things like that. Shoot, WSLS-DT was just as receivable at 55.46 kW as they are now at 950 kW.

Quote:


KRCB: DT23 on STA reduced power until tests with county are complete. Full power late 2008.

But they'll be at full-power in time for 2009. I don't want to have to update this thing any more than necessary.

Quote:


At bottom of SF list, KUNO is Fort Bragg, not Ukiah.

Good catch.

Quote:


Sacramento:
KCRA: 93% power until 8/09.

See KICU.

Quote:


KVIE: Installation of antenna needs to be coordinated with KTXL. Flash-cut 2/18/09.
KTXL: 50% power analog 40 1/09, 50% power DT40 2/18/09, full power 4/09.

Got KVIE. Not too concerned about KTXL, since the time-frame is so short.

Quote:


KTFK: Will flash cut to new transmitter location. Now on Mt. Diablo; moving to Walnut Grove 2/18/09.

Went ahead and mentioned the move to Walnut Grove.

Quote:


Monterey:
KSBW: Will use channel 10 antenna for DT8 until new channel 8 antenna is ready.

In fact, the filing says nothing about a new channel 8 antenna. It just says that they're using the DT-10 antenna for DT-08.

Quote:


KQET: Using same transmitter and antenna now on DT58 for DT25. Will install mask filter and retune exciter prior to transistion. Full power DT25 on 2/17/09.

Ask the common person what a mask filter and an exciter are. (I don't even know what a mask filter is) The important part is that it's being flash-cut. Trying to keep the description to a minimum.

I'm up to #55. This redoing of links and adding of facilities is extremely time-consuming.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #693 of 7380 Old 02-23-2008, 07:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Ask the common person what a mask filter and an exciter are. (I don't even know what a mask filter is)

A mask filter is the filter on the output of the digital transmitter that a) keeps the out of band emissions within FCC tolerance (what is called the shoulders below -47 db down because they look like shoulders on a person) and b) makes that VERY squarewave signal receivers must have to work. Analog stations have filters to, but they are usually what are called hybrid combiners, they combine the analog visual and aural into one transmission line to run to the antenna and also keeps emissions within FCC tolerance. You can use a mask filter in analog service it isn't no where near as efficent as a hybrid conbiner and takes a heck of a lot more raw power to make it work and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter. In digital service, the mask filter is pretty good all around.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #694 of 7380 Old 02-23-2008, 11:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Alright, well, I got up to #75. Tomorrow I need to get some actual school work done, haha, so who knows if I'll make any progress.

The only other note I wanted to make was about KVAW in Eagle Pass, TX. The station is on analog 16 and digital 18, but has asked to be reassigned to DT-24. Upon further investigation, it turns out that the new owner wants to build a 2000' tower to put KVAW-DT on to rimshot San Antonio. It looks rather interesting I think.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #695 of 7380 Old 02-24-2008, 09:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 3,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 105
This is a most unusual station all the way around. KBSV, Ceres, Calif, is the only Assyrian TV station in the country. They're a full service station yet their analog transmitter is only 15KW. In their 387 filing they told the FCC that they are operating their digital transmitter from their analog transmitter site. This is untrue. They are not on the air digitally. I was receiving their digital broadcast last summer through mid fall when they suddenly disappeared. They have not come back on. Despite only running 7.7 KW on channel 15, 45 miles distant and one ridge to look over, their signal was rock solid here. It doesn't seem like a good idea to tell the FCC one thing and do something else.

In their 387 filing, they've told the FCC that they'll be using a 5.6GHz unlicensed link to a new transmitter site. Is this common practice for stations to do this?

Chuck
Calaveras is online now  
post #696 of 7380 Old 02-24-2008, 10:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

This is a most unusual station all the way around. KBSV, Ceres, Calif, is the only Assyrian TV station in the country. They're a full service station yet their analog transmitter is only 15KW. In their 387 filing they told the FCC that they are operating their digital transmitter from their analog transmitter site. This is untrue. They are not on the air digitally. I was receiving their digital broadcast last summer through mid fall when they suddenly disappeared. They have not come back on. Despite only running 7.7 KW on channel 15, 45 miles distant and one ridge to look over, their signal was rock solid here. It doesn't seem like a good idea to tell the FCC one thing and do something else.

In their 387 filing, they've told the FCC that they'll be using a 5.6GHz unlicensed link to a new transmitter site. Is this common practice for stations to do this?

Chuck

That's interesting. Are you sure that it's completely silent though? I remember hearing that the FCC has some kind of tolerance, that stations can operate at 80 or 85% of authorized power and still be legal. It might be an interesting idea to e-mail them or call them and ask.

As far as the 5.8GHz link, I can't say I've ever heard of a TV station using one of those, but I can say that the high school I went to (and had a tech job) ran its whole infrastructure to all the other schools on unlicensed 900MHz equipment and it could be pretty unreliable at times. I'd be amused to see how long they use it once it gets going, and how reliable it is.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #697 of 7380 Old 02-24-2008, 01:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 3,145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

That's interesting. Are you sure that it's completely silent though?

- Trip

I pulled my spectrum analyzer out and took a look and there isn't a hint of any signal. If they had anything at all on the air I'd see something. Maybe they figured no one was watching their digital channel so it wouldn't make any difference if they were on or not.

Chuck
Calaveras is online now  
post #698 of 7380 Old 02-24-2008, 03:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I pulled my spectrum analyzer out and took a look and there isn't a hint of any signal. If they had anything at all on the air I'd see something. Maybe they figured no one was watching their digital channel so it wouldn't make any difference if they were on or not.

Chuck

I wish I had a spectrum analyzer! Haha.

Just a general announcement, I don't know when the next time I'll be able to work extensively on my page is. I had to take my roommate to the Emergency Room and so now I'm really behind on my work, so... (He's okay)

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #699 of 7380 Old 02-24-2008, 04:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
The FCC will allow a station 12 months off the air before they pull the license.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #700 of 7380 Old 02-25-2008, 01:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Will the current DTV "middle" combination antenna be completely removed when all of this is done? I'm assuming that the backup/Aux DTV antennas will eventually be installed near the base in place of the current analog Aux antennas. I will look forward to the pictures of the work.

From what I understand, the new UHF antenna cluster is going to be the permanent aux/backup antennas for the UHF digital stations. I think it's going to stay at Level 3.

KGO will probably continue to use their present aux antenna, but that's only an assumption on my part. Maybe they'll get a new one when they remove all of the unneeded aux antennas at Level 1.

Larry
SF

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html

Check out photos and info on my antennas: http://www. larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

Larry Kenney is offline  
post #701 of 7380 Old 02-25-2008, 06:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The 387s for four more stations was posted overnight (since 02/22/2008): WPPB-TV, KTVE, WHIZ-TV, WADL. There is an amendment from WWNY-TV to fix a typo for channel # in one of the attachments. A quick look shows WADL filing is date 02/22, so they filed late. So some more filings are trickling in.
afiggatt is offline  
post #702 of 7380 Old 02-25-2008, 06:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

The 387s for four more stations was posted overnight (since 02/22/2008): WPPB-TV, KTVE, WHIZ-TV, WADL. There is an amendment from WWNY-TV to fix a typo for channel # in one of the attachments. A quick look shows WADL filing is date 02/22, so they filed late. So some more filings are trickling in.

KOHD also filed. All have been added to my list since it only took three minutes.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #703 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am still working on the spreadsheet for last week's filings. The status filings for up to 2/19 are included and the remainder of the filings I am working through State by State.

With the latest update, NC through WY have been completed, though I am not yet looking at the new filings trickling in this week. PR has not yet been updated, however.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #704 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 10:39 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
My page has today's filings on it, which includes the AcmeTV stations at long last, and WRJM and there might have been some others I'm forgetting.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #705 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 11:26 AM
Member
 
mdodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: RI
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

A mask filter is the filter on the output of the digital transmitter that a) keeps the out of band emissions within FCC tolerance (what is called the shoulders below -47 db down because they look like shoulders on a person) and b) makes that VERY squarewave signal receivers must have to work. Analog stations have filters to, but they are usually what are called hybrid combiners, they combine the analog visual and aural into one transmission line to run to the antenna and also keeps emissions within FCC tolerance. You can use a mask filter in analog service it isn't no where near as efficent as a hybrid conbiner and takes a heck of a lot more raw power to make it work and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter. In digital service, the mask filter is pretty good all around.

foxeng:
Actually, a hybrid combiner combines two or more multiplexed amplifiers (usually IOTs) into a single transmission line. It can be either an analog or digital transmitter. The whole basis for hybrid couplers is to combine (or split) two EQUAL (in phase) signals. Most modern ANALOG tube type transmitters multiplex the aural and visual signals at a low level in the exciter and use a "Magic-T" to combine. The mask filter in a digital transmitter is located after the combiner but before the station load/antenna switch. An analog transmitter uses a low-pass-filter (LPF) or "Channel Filter" in its place.

I take exception to your statement "and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter." To the best of my knowledge, there is no difference between the two at that stage in the RF chain. Although a hybrid combiner is frequency dependent to a certain extent, it is not modulation dependent. It's a four-port device that is looking for two equal signals at the input; frequency, phase, power, etc. And, it's not a filter; it's a combiner.

The older analog klystron tube transmitters used what is called a diplexer (not to be confused with a duplexer) to combine individual visual and aural tubes at a high level. Klystrons are not linear enough at high power levels and 6 MHz bandwidth to multiplex although, some newer solid-state exciters had provision to multiplex the visual signal with aural in an emergency.

Trip:
An exciter in a TV broadcast transmitter ( analog or digital) is where life starts. The channel or frequency oscillator, modulator and filtering (comb filters, etc) and initial amplification is here. Almost all correction is done in the exciter. It's, probably, the smallest part of a transmitter (in physical size).

foxeng & Trip:

The mask filter is close to what foxeng describes but it has been said that the mask filter compares, somewhat, to the catalytic converter on a car. If the engine is tuned perfectly there is no need for the catalytic converter; it just ensures that the engine always meets EPA emission standards.

The mask filter on the other hand does add to the filtering. Most of the channel shaping though, is done by the comb filter in the exciter, the correction circuits in the exciter and the IOT tuning (if tube type).

Trip:
I hope this confuses you enough to want to explore it more on your own. All the TV transmitter and filter manufacturer websites have a wealth of information and a "Goggle" search will give you tens-of-thousands of hits. (You don't have to believe a word I said. )
mdodge is offline  
post #706 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 12:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdodge View Post

foxeng:
Actually, a hybrid combiner combines two or more multiplexed amplifiers (usually IOTs) into a single transmission line. It can be either an analog or digital transmitter. The whole basis for hybrid couplers is to combine (or split) two EQUAL (in phase) signals. Most modern ANALOG tube type transmitters multiplex the aural and visual signals at a low level in the exciter and use a "Magic-T" to combine. The mask filter in a digital transmitter is located after the combiner but before the station load/antenna switch. An analog transmitter uses a low-pass-filter (LPF) or "Channel Filter" in its place.

I am fully aware of what is in a hybrid combiner, I have two of them, both on VHF high and have used them with tubes and solid state. I decided to just hit the layman's terms and not get under the hood of it all.

Quote:


I take exception to your statement "and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter." To the best of my knowledge, there is no difference between the two at that stage in the RF chain. Although a hybrid combiner is frequency dependent to a certain extent, it is not modulation dependent. It's a four-port device that is looking for two equal signals at the input; frequency, phase, power, etc. And, it's not a filter; it's a combiner.

Sure, you can use a hybrid combiner in digital service, but you still will need a mask filter on the end. Why use both when you only need one?

Quote:


The older analog klystron tube transmitters used what is called a diplexer (not to be confused with a duplexer) to combine individual visual and aural tubes at a high level. Klystrons are not linear enough at high power levels and 6 MHz bandwidth to multiplex although, some newer solid-state exciters had provision to multiplex the visual signal with aural in an emergency.

While true, again I decided to not get so technical. You have to know your audience.

Quote:


foxeng & Trip:

The mask filter is close to what foxeng describes but it has been said that the mask filter compares, somewhat, to the catalytic converter on a car. If the engine is tuned perfectly there is no need for the catalytic converter; it just ensures that the engine always meets EPA emission standards.

The mask filter on the other hand does add to the filtering. Most of the channel shaping though, is done by the comb filter in the exciter, the correction circuits in the exciter and the IOT tuning (if tube type).

All of those circuits are prone to drift. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing the mask filter is there to make sure my transmitter is in tolerance.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #707 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I see that the form 387 filings were posted last night for another 10 stations and 1 amendment. A search for 387s accepted for filings returns a count of 1792 records, so we are close to having all stations submit and post their 387 transition plans.

Doing a spot check of several of the new submissions, WBXX CW 20 in TN writes "WBXX WILL BE MAKEING A SWITCH BACK TO THE ANALOG CHANNEL FOR ITS FINAL RESTING PLACE ON DIGITAL". Final Resting Place? Really, is that the phrase you want to use? Sounds like WBXX is planning to hold a funeral next February 17. [A spell checker on their submission would help too].
afiggatt is offline  
post #708 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 06:41 PM
Member
 
mdodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: RI
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

I am fully aware of what is in a hybrid combiner, I have two of them, both on VHF high and have used them with tubes and solid state. I decided to just hit the layman's terms and not get under the hood of it all. (1)

Sure, you can use a hybrid combiner in digital service, but you still will need a mask filter on the end. Why use both when you only need one? (2)

While true, again I decided to not get so technical. You have to know your audience. (3)

All of those circuits are prone to drift. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing the mask filter is there to make sure my transmitter is in tolerance. (4)

(1) Let me state it more simply: A combiner is NOT a filter. They perform two different functions.

(2) Because you need both - see (1) above.

(3) Absolutely - but don't misinform the audience.

(4) Exactly my point.
mdodge is offline  
post #709 of 7380 Old 02-26-2008, 09:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I ran across this baffling exhibit for KSHB (Kansas City, MO).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=618808

It makes reference to a KCMI on the same tower, to operate on 41 after the transition. I can find no record of such a station in the FCC database or on Wikipedia. A Google search has yielded some indirect references, but nothing conclusive. Does KCMI exist?

Edit: It looks like a typo. On Trip's site, I see it is "KMCI," but I had KMCI in another DMA (Topeka, KS). I will fix that.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #710 of 7380 Old 02-27-2008, 12:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa (We'll be back)
Posts: 2,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It looks like they meant to say KMCI, which is licensed to Lawrence, KS but has its transmitter in Kansas City. Lawrence is within the contour of stations in both the K.C. and Topeka markets, but KMCI is definitely K.C.

Views are strictly my own unless otherwise noted.
"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
dline is offline  
post #711 of 7380 Old 02-27-2008, 01:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 33
FYI... I've updated my Digital Channel list for the San Francisco Bay Area, Sacramento and Monterey, adding the transition info. I also re-sorted it by PSIP channel number rather than by the digital transmitter channel number. Lots of people said they knew the PSIP but didn't know the transmitter channel, so this might work better.

You can check it out at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

Larry
SF

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html

Check out photos and info on my antennas: http://www. larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

Larry Kenney is offline  
post #712 of 7380 Old 02-28-2008, 10:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Does anyone know what the status is with the coupons? I signed up in the first day or two, and my mom's coming to get me tomorrow... I was hoping they'd have arrived by then so I could pick up a box on the way home for the kitchen TV. The site only says that my coupons have shipped, but doesn't give a date of when they shipped.

As far as my page is concerned, I added the new stations (KEFB, WJFB, WZVI, KVAW), and the four revised Fox filings that require links to be changed will be added soon. Most of the stress is off me now regarding school, but I'm feeling like taking a break from working on my page. Maybe this evening or tomorrow I'll get back to working on it full time.

I need to do the other half of the list as far as facilities and redoing the links, and then I need to start sifting through the CP applications before those get too backlogged for me to catch up on.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #713 of 7380 Old 02-28-2008, 06:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nitewatchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middletown, Ohio
Posts: 6,292
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Trip,

FWIW, that's the first one I have heard of that has been mailed, but I haven't had a chance to read many threads the past few days ....

Also I was in the 500K's (on day 2 if I recall correctly), just looked and the status check still says same thing it has since I've been checking it the past couple of weeks :

"Your application was recently approved and we are currently preparing to mail your coupons. "

Maybe there aren't many of them in stock in local stores, yet though, don't know ... right now, If I do get the coupons soon from the reports I've read, I'll probably go with the Zenith/Insignia boxes ...

Jeff
Nitewatchman is offline  
post #714 of 7380 Old 02-29-2008, 03:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Some comments while reviewing the 387s for KY and AL to help Falcon_77 with his spreadsheet.

WYLE 26 in Huntsville, AL. Their 387 is a tale of woe. Mom and pop operation, lost their Jewelry broadcast contract, Co-owner and chief engineer died, due to financial crisis analog went dark in early 2007, spent a year looking for a buyer, and so on. Appears they have a buyer (WHDF), so the station may come back as a DT only station.

WAKA CBS 8 in Montgomery, AL DMA, pre-DT 55, post-DT 42. This is the most complex conversion plan I think I have seen yet with the analog going dark on 11/28/08, then new DT 42 antenna installed, followed by low power 42 kW operation on DT 42 in January, while powering down DT 55 in steps to convert transmitter hardware. Finally get to full DT 42 ERP on March 19, 2009. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=619376 for the day by day details.

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now...

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.
afiggatt is offline  
post #715 of 7380 Old 02-29-2008, 03:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now...

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.

WDKY tried to get moved to DT-22 at one point...

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #716 of 7380 Old 02-29-2008, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
sebenste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DeKalb, IL
Posts: 3,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hey gang,

I got two pretty red-colored gift cards, er, DTV coupons in the mail today. I applied in the afternoon on New Year's Day. They expire May 23.

Gilbert
sebenste is offline  
post #717 of 7380 Old 02-29-2008, 06:51 PM
Senior Member
 
PinkSplice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: STL MO
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Hey gang,

I got two pretty red-colored gift cards, er, DTV coupons in the mail today. I applied in the afternoon on New Year's Day. They expire May 23.

Well, mine's #2,117,xxx. I guess I'll get my coupons in time for when the CECB's have inflatable sex droids bundled with them...
PinkSplice is offline  
post #718 of 7380 Old 02-29-2008, 10:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
My web page is now updated all the way to Market #100. I also made a page for the DTS that KTDO in Las Cruces/El Paso has applied for.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #719 of 7380 Old 03-01-2008, 10:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now...

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.

I remember discussing this station with someone local to the area who was happy to have WDKY on 4, but he was in the hills. I hadn't noticed that all the analog stations were on UHF there. This could certainly be a problem. Even the upper VHF stations could present a problem for those unprepared for the change. However, I'm wondering if combo antennas were frequently used there despite being UHF only.

The top 53 DMA's currently all have analog VHF signals. The largest not to, #54, is Scranton, PA, which, incidentally, has upper VHF DTV channels and they will continue for post-transition operations. Right behind it, Fresno, CA (at #55) is in the same boat.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #720 of 7380 Old 03-01-2008, 12:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Alright, my page is now complete up through Market #150. I made a DTS page for KYES.

KYES is an interesting case (but isn't it always?). KYES wants to do a number of things:

They want to operate a DTS on channel 5, using four transmitters to cover four heavily-populated areas.
They want to operate DT-22 from a mountaintop with HAAT of 4280' to cover areas that don't currently receive any TV service from Anchorage.
They want a waiver of FCC rules about expanding coverage, due to the lack of stations in Alaska and the fact that they currently have the largest coverage of any Anchorage TV station.

There might have been more, but that is what looked relevant to me.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off