The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 240 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7171 of 7375 Old 11-09-2011, 08:43 AM
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AMENDMENT OF SECTION 73.622(I), POST-TRANSITION TABLE OF DTV ALLOTMENTS, TELEVISION BROADCAST STATIONS, MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA. [WNCF] Substitution of channel 31 for channel 32 at Montgomery. (Dkt No. 11-137 RM-11637 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 11/04/2011 by R&O. (DA No. 11-1863).

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-11-1863A1.pdf
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post #7172 of 7375 Old 11-14-2011, 09:14 PM
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WLJC-7 wants 185 kW. Good luck with that one.

- Trip

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post #7173 of 7375 Old 11-15-2011, 03:49 AM
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I'd like to see their justification for asking for more power than a high-VHF station is even permitted...
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post #7174 of 7375 Old 11-15-2011, 03:57 AM
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They cite 73.622(f)(5), the same rule WBNS cited when they requested 1700 kW. We saw where that one went.

I imagine it will ultimately be amended to 160 kW.

- Trip

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post #7175 of 7375 Old 11-19-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA5IYX View Post

Let's try this again (if my SWBell/AT&T DSL doesn't keep dropping out ...)

If your area has U Verse (Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX does but its only Internet and they havent rolled out U Verse to every CO yet and they cannot advertise it if its not available in a major % of the area and they have to offer 2 out of 3 features from what I have been told)...and you can check at att.com to see if it IS available (look at Broadband, NOT DSL using your address or phone number), you can get your DSL pricing adjusted..I got my 3MB DSL at $35 kicked up to 6MB and the price knocked DOWN to $24.95 month (the U Verse price) just by calling ATT and saying I wanted the 6MB but didnt want to pay $100 for their "special" modem (DSL II)....sooooo keep that in mind...I just saved a lot of money on my DSL by NOT switching!
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post #7176 of 7375 Old 11-21-2011, 10:38 AM
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In reviewing a number of recent power increase applications (such as KRIV/Houston's app for 800 kW from 300 kW), Section 73.622(f)(8)(i) is cited as the reason for exceeding ERP caps.

Now that things have really settled down from the transition and this thread can sustain some more activity, how about a "Big Dummy's Guide for Untanging FCC Legal Speak"?

Here are some discussion starters:

1). What's the history behind the largest station exemption? Was there one facility that wanted to exceed the limits that served as the initial test case?

2). How can the largest station be determined without ambiguity? I seem to recall that here in Dallas, WFAA was cited by one applicant and KDFW was used by another applicant.

3). And how the "largest station in the market" determined in first place since it presumably had to exceed the ERP/HAAT caps to attain that lofty status?
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post #7177 of 7375 Old 11-21-2011, 01:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post


3). And how the "largest station in the market" determined in first place since it presumably had to exceed the ERP/HAAT caps to attain that lofty status?

The largest DTV station in a market is usually a station that began life as a VHF analog station, maximized their DTV facilities, and pushed out the DTV contour the full 5 miles that was allowed. In order to do so, the DTV channel needed to be clear in most directions so that additional interference did not occur.

In spite of the 5 miles extension, most stations found that DTV does not cover as well as analog. In my opinion, the likely reasons are;
1. Viewers often watched analog pictures well below 28 db s/n ratio; the minimum signal strength that was assumed to be adequate.
2. Difficulty optimizing a DTV antenna because the digital signal strength meter in an HDTV is slow to respond and isn't as effective as the obvious visual improvement of an analog picture.
3. Multipath issues that invalidate the predicted s/n values.
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post #7178 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

1). What's the history behind the largest station exemption? Was there one facility that wanted to exceed the limits that served as the initial test case?

Remember that the limit on UHF power is actually 365m 1000 kW. With the sliding scale that is in place, this means that without 73.622(f)(5), a 610m high facility would be capped at 316 kW. It wouldn't make sense in the world of digital to artificially limit power based on what a station's analog coverage was. This would be particularly true in places where one of the big four networks was now on UHF for one reason or another.

The transition gave smaller stations the opportunity to increase coverage, and in fact the original table of allotments had floor values that stations' assigned power levels did not go below (1 kW low-VHF, 3.2 kW high-VHF, and 50 kW UHF).

Quote:


2). How can the largest station be determined without ambiguity? I seem to recall that here in Dallas, WFAA was cited by one applicant and KDFW was used by another applicant.

I have a list of stations ranged by largest amount of area covered:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...est=maxcontour

But I don't think you actually need to use the largest station. As long as you can demonstrate that at least one station in the market is larger than your own, then you would be in the clear regardless.

Quote:


3). And how the "largest station in the market" determined in first place since it presumably had to exceed the ERP/HAAT caps to attain that lofty status?

Tower Guy pretty much got this one. Since 100 kW VHF analog covered more ground than a 5000 kW UHF analog, when the digital assignments were handed out, many of those 100 kW VHFs were granted 1000 kW UHFs (or VHFs exceeding normal power limits) to attempt to replicate analog coverage as well as possible.

Here are the original allotments, courtesy of Doug Lung: http://www.transmitter.com/FCC98315/chanplan.html

- Trip

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post #7179 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 10:08 AM
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AMENDMENT OF SECTION 73.622(I), POST-TRANSITION TABLE OF DTV ALLOTMENTS, TELEVISION BROADCAST STATIONS (LINCOLN, NEBRASKA). Proposed substitution of channel 15 for channel 51 at Lincoln, Nebraska for station KFXL-TV. (Dkt No. 11-192 RM-11646 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 11/21/2011 by NPRM. (DA No. 11-1924).

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...-11-1924A1.pdf
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post #7180 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 06:03 PM
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Sitting on the various petitions to move from VHF to UHF, but jumps to make the wireless companies happy within a week.

- Trip

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post #7181 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 06:50 PM
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post #7182 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

AMENDMENT OF SECTION 73.622(I), POST-TRANSITION TABLE OF DTV ALLOTMENTS, TELEVISION BROADCAST STATIONS (LINCOLN, NEBRASKA). Proposed substitution of channel 15 for channel 51 at Lincoln, Nebraska for station KFXL-TV. (Dkt No. 11-192 RM-11646 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 11/21/2011 by NPRM. (DA No. 11-1924).

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...-11-1924A1.pdf

Isn't the FCC trying to get stations OFF of 51 to placate mobile companies?
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post #7183 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 07:33 PM
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Yes. It's a petition to move KFXL from 51 to 15.

- Trip

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post #7184 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Isn't the FCC trying to get stations OFF of 51 to placate mobile companies?

Yes, they are, and LPTV stations on channel 51 have been jumping ship for several weeks now. They aren't entitled to any compensation for switching. As far as I know, this is the first full-power station to jump.
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post #7185 of 7375 Old 11-22-2011, 09:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Yes. It's a petition to move KFXL from 51 to 15.

- Trip

doh! My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhett View Post

Yes, they are, and LPTV stations on channel 51 have been jumping ship for several weeks now. They aren't entitled to any compensation for switching. As far as I know, this is the first full-power station to jump.

I know there's a FP channel 51 in Memphis but I'm not sure if they have made a request to move yet. Really haven't kept up on it.

I wonder how long before the mobile companies say they need channel 50 vacated then 49 etc etc. Seems as if they can get the incetive auctions they'll just get the spectrum piecemeal. After all what is just ONE channel.
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post #7186 of 7375 Old 11-23-2011, 04:17 AM
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Greensboro NC has a full power 51 (1000 kw at 2000 ft) that hasn't requested a move yet.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers. "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. After a couple of hours, you realize the pig likes it"
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post #7187 of 7375 Old 11-25-2011, 08:06 AM
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KDTV in Fremont CA is FP on 51 (476KW at about 3000'). There's no channel they can move to besides low VHF.
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post #7188 of 7375 Old 11-25-2011, 09:48 AM
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Low power stations, because they're secondary services, can be forced off channel 51, which is why many are leaving now. Full power stations, OTOH, are primary services and cannot be forced to move off channel 51 (for now).

If KDTV were forced to move, it looks like channel 22 is the only channel available outside of low-VHF. Or maybe the FCC needs to come up with a way that TV services can use channels adjacent to land mobile. It's bad enough that channels 16 and 17 are taken out of service, but 15 and 18 too? But then if channels adjacent to land mobile could be made usable, then why not channel 51?
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post #7189 of 7375 Old 11-25-2011, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

KDTV in Fremont CA is FP on 51 (476KW at about 3000'). There's no channel they can move to besides low VHF.

And the FCC doesn't really care to be honest. As long as at&t and Verizon get their spectrum.
See The Light likes this.
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post #7190 of 7375 Old 11-28-2011, 01:16 AM
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Are there any markets that have no remaining analog low power stations? Whick market was or might be the first to be 100% digital?

In Bakersfield we still have 8 low power analog stations. We have 7 low power digital stations.

Is Barstow still "the land time forgot" when it comes to digital tv? Last I heard they still have analog translators of the major Los Angeles stations. Does anyone know if Barstow is still an all analog city? Any other city somewhere in America that is still stuck in the 20th century?
__________________

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!! And now the deadline has been extended again!
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post #7191 of 7375 Old 11-28-2011, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

Are there any markets that have no remaining analog low power stations? Whick market was or might be the first to be 100% digital?

There's quite a few. In my market the last analog LP went digital over 18 months ago.

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post #7192 of 7375 Old 11-28-2011, 04:56 PM
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My big announcement: http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...g-Announcement

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #7193 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 12:35 AM
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My big announcement: http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...g-Announcement

- Trip

Congratulations!
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post #7194 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 06:52 AM
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Yes, congratulations Trip! Will you be at liberty to keep us up to date on the networks you deal with? I've got two of those TBN analogs locally and I'd like to know what's going to become of them.

Chuck
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post #7195 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

Are there any markets that have no remaining analog low power stations? Whick market was or might be the first to be 100% digital?

In Bakersfield we still have 8 low power analog stations. We have 7 low power digital stations.

The last analog station in San Francisco switched to digital about a month ago. It's a low power station transmitting from Mt. San Bruno. I can no longer receive any analog stations here. I understand that there's one station left down in San Jose, but it's too weak to reach us up here.

I've always been amazed by the number of low power stations there in Bakersfield. I see that just about half have now switched to digital, but you still have lots of them left. I think you'll have analog stations on the air there until all analog has to shut down.

Larry
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post #7196 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 10:41 AM
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Luken got a good one...

You never know where the LIMIT is until you EXCEED it... Dianne B. "Let's try that again... without the oops." (Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum in "Independence Day")
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post #7197 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

Luken got a good one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Yes, congratulations Trip!

Thanks.

Quote:


Will you be at liberty to keep us up to date on the networks you deal with? I've got two of those TBN analogs locally and I'd like to know what's going to become of them.

Chuck

I will do my very best. Which two stations are you referring to?

- Trip

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post #7198 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

...

I can no longer receive any analog stations here. I understand that there's one station left down in San Jose, but it's too weak to reach us up here.

...

Larry
SF

Hi,

I kept thinking about the analog station in Santa Clara and could not remember the RF channel.

22 kept popping up but only vaguely.

I remembered that I had a printed copy of one of your old lists, last updated October 9,2008.

--------------------

Channel 22 KAXT-CA & Santa Clara - San Jose Low power analog 56 ERP kW no HAAT

& = might remain on the air after Feb. 17, 2009

--------------------

So, with Channel 1 on the air, we can safely conclude that the Santa Clara analog station is off the air.

SHF
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post #7199 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 11:19 PM
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I hope Luken will buy K21FP, TBN's analog station in Bakersfield. Then promptly switch it to digital and put RTV and the others on it. Too bad that the chance of convincing Bright House to carry it would be slim to none. I have an A/B switch on 2 of my tvs for just such issues.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!! And now the deadline has been extended again!
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post #7200 of 7375 Old 11-29-2011, 11:31 PM
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Bakersfield has so many low power stations because we have a pathetically low number of full power allotments, just 4! FOX is on a low power station here. So are all the Spanish networks even though we have a high percentage of Spanish speaking households. We don't even have our own PBS station, we get PBS via a translator of Fresno's KVPT. Until 1979 we only had the big 3 networks OTA. In 1979 we got Univision (then known as Spanish International Network) on our first LP (then a translator of KMEX L.A.). Then TBN on an LP in 1980 (a translator of KTBN L.A.). In 1988 we got our fourth full power station. Then in the 90s we had an explosion of LP stations. If it weren't for low power stations, we would still just have 4 stations.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!! And now the deadline has been extended again!
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