The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #751 of 7380 Old 03-07-2008, 07:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_MainyYak View Post

The folks at the FCC have been nearly as busy as Trip and Falcon_77. Today they released the MO&O (135 scintillating pages) and the final DTV Table of Allotments.
From my read, they are taking quick action on many of the requests filed in conjunction with the 387s.
Happy reading!

No rest for the weary, huh? Looks like my weekend (probably more than that) has now been spoken for.

Hopefully, it will just be a matter of comparing side-by-side, but time will tell.
Falcon_77 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #752 of 7380 Old 03-08-2008, 12:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I added the info from Appendix D1 and D2 tonight. I will go through the rest of it tomorrow, if I can.

It looks like KIVV's request to go to Low VHF 5 (vs. 29) has been granted, but I don't see anything about KMBC's request to go to 29 vs. 9.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #753 of 7380 Old 03-08-2008, 07:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

I added the info from Appendix D1 and D2 tonight. I will go through the rest of it tomorrow, if I can.

It looks like KIVV's request to go to Low VHF 5 (vs. 29) has been granted, but I don't see anything about KMBC's request to go to 29 vs. 9.

It got denied because it was filed too late for there to be an acceptable comment period on it.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #754 of 7380 Old 03-08-2008, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am going through the denial notes now. A surprising one is the denial of KTVU to move DTV operations to the top of Sutro Tower, due to interference on KCSM and KBCW on adjacent channels. Can someone explain this?

Perhaps I could understand this if KTVU was going to be at a different HAAT than the others and perhaps that is what was going to happen?

This is on paragraph 61 of the MO&O.

I also noticed that WBBM was denied a request to increase post-transition ERP to 13.6kW (from 3.2kW), due to 0.4 projected interference on WINM.

All the denials for under 1% new interference seems strict, consider the number of stations already receiving well over 5% interference. 68 stations have 10% or more interference received in the new Appendix B table.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #755 of 7380 Old 03-08-2008, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have completed my initial review of the MO&O and have updated the spreadsheet to reflect the changes noted. However, updating interference received info for all stations will take a while longer.

The new breakdown of DTV stations, for post-transition, stands as follows:

Low-VHF: 40 - 2.2% (up by 3)
High-VHF: 452 - 24.8%
UHF: 1327 - 73.0%

In addition to KIVV (5) noted above, WUOA (6) and KIDA (5) have been granted Low-VHF allotments.

For Idaho and South Dakota, I would not expect many issues with noise. However, WUOA in Birmingham, AL may be a different story. WUOA could end up discovering that going to Low-VHF at 1kW may not exactly be an improvement over 50kW on UHF, despite the lower operating costs.

Also, KCWX's request not to use 5 for post-transition operations was denied. KCWX wanted to use 8, but KTBC and KLRN objected to the projected interference this would cause. One of those two suggested they look at UHF instead.

There were several notes that these denied petitions could still be submitted through the application process and some of them could perhaps be accepted after the "freeze" is lifted in August. I don't know how many will be, but I doubt that we are looking at the final draft at the moment.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #756 of 7380 Old 03-09-2008, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 3,185
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

I am going through the denial notes now. A surprising one is the denial of KTVU to move DTV operations to the top of Sutro Tower, due to interference on KCSM and KBCW on adjacent channels. Can someone explain this?

Perhaps I could understand this if KTVU was going to be at a different HAAT than the others and perhaps that is what was going to happen?

Yes. I looked up the adjacent stations and here's the current post transition situation:

KCSM - 43 - 428m
KTVU - 44 - 433m
KBCW - 45 - 446m

KTVU wants to go to 513m and apparently that will cause the low percentage of interference to the adjacent stations the FCC won't accept.

There are 3 stations on the Sutro tower listed with antennas over 500m but they're far removed in frequency.

Chuck
Calaveras is online now  
post #757 of 7380 Old 03-09-2008, 10:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
New filings today; nothing too exciting.

WSIU typoed badly on their application.

WNIT in South Bend, IN is asking to terminate their analog on June 5 due to a failing analog transmitter.

Otherwise, just a few new CPs.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #758 of 7380 Old 03-09-2008, 11:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

KCSM - 43 - 428m
KTVU - 44 - 433m
KBCW - 45 - 446m

KTVU wants to go to 513m and apparently that will cause the low percentage of interference to the adjacent stations the FCC won't accept.

It is now my understanding that the modeling done by the FCC is flawed as it assumed that KCSM and KBCW were staying at their current positions, when they are also planning moves to the top of the tower.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #759 of 7380 Old 03-10-2008, 05:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,032
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Stations wanting expedited rulings on post transition CP's are due next Monday, March 17th, so you should see more CP requests in the next week or so.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #760 of 7380 Old 03-10-2008, 09:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Ranch
Posts: 3,185
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

It is now my understanding that the modeling done by the FCC is flawed as it assumed that KCSM and KBCW were staying at their current positions, when they are also planning moves to the top of the tower.

Yes, that makes sense that KCSM and KBCW are moving to the top of the tower and it makes no sense for the FCC to tell KTVU that they have to remain side mounted. They'll have to get the FCC straightened out.

Chuck
Calaveras is online now  
post #761 of 7380 Old 03-12-2008, 10:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
I'm just about to upload my updates for today. Only two interesting notes, well, to me at least:

1) WJZ and WBAL have filed. I'd note that the two are... quite different. WBAL wants 5 kW on their non-directional antenna. WJZ wants 28.8 kW on a directional antenna. They're not playing games it seems.

2) WLAE has filed their 387. Tales of woe are enclosed.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=18819

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #762 of 7380 Old 03-13-2008, 07:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
TiVoFishMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: One half mile due west of the Abita Brewery
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

2) WLAE has filed their 387. Tales of woe are enclosed.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=18819

- Trip

Interesting.

Most of the "woe" was related to the health and outrageous streak of bad luck on the part of their legal counsel, their transition plan is fairly typical of a low-budget non-commercial station (albeit verbosely described in their filing).

I had been wondering why they took so long to file. I actually know their CEO (not well, an acquaintance) and WLAE is usually fairly well on top of this sort of thing (they filed "must carry" briefs with DirecTV and Dish back when those providers were first adding SD locals before anybody else in New Orleans.) They also set up a direct feed to Dish and DirecTV within about a week after Katrina destroyed their transmitters.

Another curious technical point: With their measly 107 kW, they actually are one of the stronger DT signals in my area. I'm about 40 miles from their tower! They hit the meters on both of my HR20's with a level of about 85 with my Winegard PR-9032 bullseyed on WVUE's tower (about 1 or 2 degrees off from being bullseyed on WLAE's). If I bullseye the tower used by WPXL (1000 kW) and WHNO (300 kW), I get about 75 on WPXL and 60 - 65 on WHNO. This tower is also about 40 miles away, but about 20 degrees different in direction.
TiVoFishMan is offline  
post #763 of 7380 Old 03-16-2008, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I updated the spreadsheet to include the remainder of the area, population & interference updates. In the process, I found that quite a few new allotments slipped in that weren't mentioned in the MO&O directly, unless I missed it.

There were quite a few power increases on the allotments, but perhaps the most notable was WMC (5) in Memphis, which went from 1.46kW/338m to 7.26kW/308m. Despite the decrease in HAAT, the coverage area will be expanded by 33% according to appendix B. Reality may show otherwise.

Some Upper VHF allotment increases include:

KXTV, Sacramento, CA: 22.3kW vs. 16.6kW (same HAAT)
KCPQ, Seattle, WA: 23.1kW/610m vs. 22.7kW/585m
WJTV, Jackson, MS: 20.3/497 vs. 17.9/464
WBTW, Florence, SC: 22.4/594 vs. 18.3/541
WBKO, Bowling Green, KY: 12.6 vs. 7.65 (same HAAT)
KWWL, Cedar Rapids, IA: 22.6/604 vs. 3.2/527
KTTM, Sioux Falls, SD: 13.5/259 vs. 11.8/217

Now we will have to see how the CP's compare. I will be curious to see how many more will follow after the "freeze" is lifted.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #764 of 7380 Old 03-16-2008, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
sebenste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DeKalb, IL
Posts: 3,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I have noticed three Chicago stations haven't filed: WLS, WGBO and WXFT. WLS is moving from UHF 52 to VHF-HI 7; WGBO and WXFT are moving to 38 and 50.

In South Bend, IN, WNIT-TV 34's second tube blew out, and they are off the air completely. They have filed to immediately terminate their analog signal, as it would cost $150,000 to replace the tubes...their annual budget is $3 million, and that would only work for 10 more months.

Gilbert
sebenste is offline  
post #765 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 12:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
I think today is the deadline, so they should show up this coming evening. Of course, as with last time, they may show up over a period of a few days, if there are enough of them.

Also, aren't WGBO and WXFT moving to 38 and 50, rather than 38 and 44?

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #766 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 07:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I think today is the deadline, so they should show up this coming evening. Of course, as with last time, they may show up over a period of a few days, if there are enough of them.

I see 57 form 301 construction permit applications were filed last night. Odds are a bunch more will be posted tonight and over the next few days.

Looking for very late 387 filings, KSQA of Topeka, KS filing was posted last night. KSQA is listed as New on Falcon_77's spreadsheet as the station has not gone on the air yet, but obviously now has a call sign. KSQA has a CP deadline of building their analog facility for UHF 22 of August 11, 2009(!). They will file to construct their DT facility on VHF 12 instead.

This is one of those odd sideshows to the digital conversion - new stations starting up after years of delay in getting their CPs. Once the 02/17/2009 deadline was established, the FCC should have required any full power station starting up on a single channel after 12 or 18 months prior to the conversion date to start up as a digital only station and changed the permits accordingly. Part of the process of pushing the stations and the OTA viewers to digital.
afiggatt is offline  
post #767 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

In South Bend, IN, WNIT-TV 34's second tube blew out, and they are off the air completely. They have filed to immediately terminate their analog signal, as it would cost $150,000 to replace the tubes...their annual budget is $3 million, and that would only work for 10 more months.

After reading their 387 filing, I'm not surprised that tube didn't make it to June (which was their requested analog end date). Hopefully, the FCC will let them just continue with DTV. I can't see a PBS station being forced to spend $150k on something that will have to be taken down in 10 months.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #768 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 10:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,032
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

After reading their 387 filing, I'm not surprised that tube didn't make it to June (which was their requested analog end date). Hopefully, the FCC will let them just continue with DTV. I can't see a PBS station being forced to spend $150k on something that will have to be taken down in 10 months.

The FCC has already granted a Gray Television station to cease analog due to repair costs of an analog transmitter. They should also allow this.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #769 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
sebenste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DeKalb, IL
Posts: 3,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I think today is the deadline, so they should show up this coming evening. Of course, as with last time, they may show up over a period of a few days, if there are enough of them.

Also, aren't WGBO and WXFT moving to 38 and 50, rather than 38 and 44?

- Trip

Yep, thanks, just corrected that.

Gilbert
sebenste is offline  
post #770 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 11:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After reading a denial of the increased power requested by WPVI, I was surprised to find a granted CP for 7.56kW. A non-directional antenna was also granted. Here is the authorization:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/p...es/1231472.pdf

This is dated only 3 days after the MO&O was adopted and just as it was released. I'm assuming this the final word at least as respects this particular request?
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #771 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 11:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Tons of filings this morning, all of which have been added to my page.

One that was rather interesting to me was something I'd missed. Apparently, WNJU-DT in Linden/New York has been operating a DTS. In addition to their transmitter in West Orange, they have a directional antenna at 4 Times Square putting 150 kW straight east across Long Island.

I've noted it in the listings.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #772 of 7380 Old 03-17-2008, 11:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There's an odd 301 filing for KFXF which makes me think that someone slipped a decimal point, but it was approved by the FCC.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=64597

In summary, I am copying the following as the link will eventually cease to function properly as the 387's have shown.

Quote:


The proposed KFXF-DT facility exceeds the 'Appendix B' facility for KFXF-DT and a waiver of the FCC filing freeze is requested. KFXF-DT will be returning to its analog channel for post-transition digital operation and it proposes to use the same directional antenna as now employed by the KFXF(TV) analog facility on channel 7. However, due to the differences between the certified facility pattern and the actual antenna pattern to be employed, it is impossible to replicate the analog coverage without some minor extension of the Appendix B coverage footprint. This is believed to be one of the anomalies for which the 5-mile waiver process was established.

Their Appendix B allocation was 3.2kW/214m and the "expanded" facility is 0.25kW/268m. A 25% increase in HAAT does not seem sufficient for a 92% decrease in ERP. Their coverage map shows a large reduction vs. Appendix B as well as vs. analog:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=621275

I know Fairbanks isn't the most populated area, but it is more OTA dependent compared to the rest of the country. I hope this is supposed to be 2.5kW.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #773 of 7380 Old 03-18-2008, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa (We'll be back)
Posts: 2,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I think today [Monday] is the deadline, so they should show up this coming evening. Of course, as with last time, they may show up over a period of a few days, if there are enough of them.

Right now we have six in Iowa, although there are a number of stations which don't have to change anything. In my market, for instance, only three stations out of a total of 10 are moving.

A couple of stations who filed early in Iowa got really quick responses -- KCRG here in Cedar Rapids filed well before the crush and already has its post-transition CP granted, as has KDMI in Des Moines, even though both are changing channels. So far, the other four are listed as "accepted for filing."

Views are strictly my own unless otherwise noted.
"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
dline is offline  
post #774 of 7380 Old 03-18-2008, 10:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
Will someone please tell me I'm justified in the stroke I think I'm going to have looking at this abomination?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=15507

It's WDRL. Those who are familiar with it will understand.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #775 of 7380 Old 03-19-2008, 06:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,032
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Will someone please tell me I'm justified in the stroke I think I'm going to have looking at this abomination?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=15507

It's WDRL. Those who are familiar with it will understand.

- Trip

Well for one thing, the application doesn't appear to be completely filled out (unanswered yes/no questions), particularly in the technical section. The cynic in me says he is trying to slide something past the FCC, but then I could be wrong.

From what I can tell, he is asking to go back to channel 24 but the tower is located 2.4 miles away from the Table B allocation and they want to install a new antenna above the analog antenna.

With this many different changes, this will more than likely NOT be instantly granted (ie, take awhile to be adjudicated and maybe denied) and it could also very well be kicked back because the 301 isn't complete. IMHO, this is NOT the time to be asking for major changes. The time for that has past.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #776 of 7380 Old 03-19-2008, 07:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 26
Posts: 14,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
What they're trying to do is use their present analog antenna to go digital. This is why they want to silence TV-24 on 05/15/08 (aside from the fact that it doesn't cover anything). You remember what that antenna's pattern looks like; they're proposing to aim 141 kW at Roanoke (which is blocked by mountains) and... 2.49 kW at Danville, 6.76 kW at Lynchburg. I can't receive the signal NOW with the full 43 kW coming at me, and as you'll recall, the station is pending sale to Liberty University in Lynchburg!

EDIT: Correction, they're aiming it directly at Blacksburg, I was just looking at the map. Blacksburg is 100% blocked by Cahas Mountain--WROV is on TOP of Cahas Mountain and can't make it into Blacksburg, and they're a C1-class FM. Roanoke will get roughly 90.2 kW in their direction.

The tower they're using looks like it's at a higher point on Smith Mountain, which doesn't bother me so much as the antenna they plan to use.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #777 of 7380 Old 03-25-2008, 09:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
afiggatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 4,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have been meaning to ask this for a few days. WBAL-DT NBC 11 in Baltimore is doing a flash cut to VHF 11 next February. Their current VHF 11 NTSC signal is 316 kW ERP, 299 m HAAT. They have filed and been approved to use their current VHF 11 antenna at 5 kW and 299 m HAAT for the post-transition DT allotment. Same antenna, no increase in HAAT. Even for the lower ERP levels for ATSC, this is a pretty big drop. What are the opinions on how this will affect reception for people at the outer edges of the current analog VHF 11 reception coverage?
afiggatt is offline  
post #778 of 7380 Old 03-26-2008, 01:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 33
That 5 kW seems pretty low for channel 11. Stations here in the San Francisco Bay Area who are going to be using their present NTSC antenna for digital will quite a bit higher. KGO on 7 is now at 316 for NTSC and is going to be at 21 kW for digital, and I thought that was low. KSBW on 8 is going to be going from 224 to 19.2 kw, and KXTV on 10 is going from 314 to 22 kW.

We have digital stations on 12 and 13 already. On 12 they're operating with 103 kW from 376.6 meters HAAT. The analog on 11 on the same tower is running 316 Kw from 391.8 meters HAAT. The digital on 13 is running 19.75 kW from 720 meters HAAT.

WBAL's 5 kw at 299 meters seems really low in comparison.

Larry
SF

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html

Check out photos and info on my antennas: http://www. larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

Larry Kenney is online now  
post #779 of 7380 Old 03-26-2008, 04:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
foxeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Where ever I am is where I am.
Posts: 14,032
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 40
The east coast VHF high is packed in tighter than on the west coast. That would account for some of the lower VHF high power. Also, there is another window in August for stations to file mods to their CPs and it is widely thought many stations will file for increase power as the FCC revisits many issues. Also remember that the post transition coverages do not equal analog coverage but pre-transition digital coverage. In my on stations case, our UHF digital coverage was more than our VHF high analog coverage and so when we looked at what we could do VHF digital, the coverage area reduced somewhat. That too factors in as well. Many issues when it came to final power levels. The main issue is does the station cover the majority of their digital coverage area. Obviously 5 kw at VHF high post transition must cover the majority of the pre-transition coverage.

All opinions expressed (unless otherwise noted) are the posters and NOT the posters employers. The poster in NO WAY is/will speak for his employers.
foxeng is online now  
post #780 of 7380 Old 03-26-2008, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Looking at the respective plots for WBAL for DT-59 and the CP DT-11, it is falling short of replicating the existing DTV coverage area (as well as the analog coverage area).

It will be interesting to see what happens when the freeze is lifted.

The cap for upper VHF, at 160kW (for Zones II and III) does seem quite generous, though few stations approach this ERP. KNTV in San Francisco is one of the few.

Around 16kW seems to be comparable to maintain an existing service area of a 316kW analog station for the same HAAT, but I prefer to see 20kW-30kW to address potential noise concerns on VHF. The Zone I cap is 30kW for upper VHF.
Falcon_77 is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off