The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 7370 Old 05-17-2008, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

According to the NTIA, more than 1.5 million coupons have been redeemed. NTIA has received more than 13 million applications. That is still a small number in the hands of consumers compared to the number in waiting. That is the point I was trying to make. If you read many of the threads here, there is a large number of people still waiting for theirs.

I sent for 2 coupons the last week of February.

I got them May 2.

So, yep, it's taking a while to send them out!
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post #902 of 7370 Old 05-17-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

NAB Unconvinced on Wilmington DTV Test

NAB also said NTIA is currently processing through a backlog of coupons, and urged Wilmington viewers to have immediate, priority access to coupons.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0015/t.13515.html

So am I, Wilmington does look more like a PR stunt than a test. It will will also be interesting to see how many of the early coupons are allowed to expire before the end of the month because some people are unhappy with the current choices.
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post #903 of 7370 Old 05-20-2008, 06:49 PM
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"GAO: Most Broadcasters Ready for DTV Transition."

See the article in the HOTP thread on the GAO report at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13910281. I started reading the GAO report and they could have saved some time by downloading Falcon_77's spreadsheet. But still it does make sense for the GAO to poll the stations directly on their digital transition status.
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post #904 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 03:14 PM
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End run - of a sorts - around the analog shutdown?

www.dcrtv.com posted the following report that WJLA ABC 7 in Washington DC is looking to lease airtime from a local LP station, WWTD-LP 49, to carry the analog signal next year. dcrtv is not the most reliable news source so WJLA may just be in talks with WWTD about this.

"7 To Lease 49 For Analog Feed After Digital Deadline - 5/21 - DCRTV hears that Channel 7/WJLA owner Allbritton will lease low-powered Channel 49/WWTD, which currently runs the "WUFO" network's science fiction-ish shows. WWTD, which broadcasts from the WRC-TV tower on Nebraska Avenue, will carry WJLA's signal, we're told. We hear that Allbritton wants to have an analog broadcast signal for DC's ABC affiliate after full-power JLA joins all other full-power stations in flipping to a digital-only signal come February 2009. Low-power stations like WWTD will remain in the analog mode. More as we hear it....."

WWTD-LP 49 is one of those oddball LP station, but does have a respectable 150 kW or 59.2 kW power depending on how you measure it. Covers the city and much of the inside the beltway area pretty well. I get WWTD-LP 49 over the air from 16 miles outside of DC with a very noisy picture, but my UHF antenna is aimed 50 degrees away at Baltimore as I get the full power DC digital stations fine in the sidelobe. WWTD-LP also has a granted CP for a digital channel on UHF 14 (currently occupied by the analog WFDC 14 Univision station which will vacate the channel next February), but only at a 100 Watts.

I have several questions about this. One, would the FCC see this as a end-run around the analog shutdown? Two, because WWTD's digital channel is different from their analog channel, could they broadcast both a digital and analog signal after next February until they are told to shut down the analog channel? Has anyone heard of other full power major network stations looking to get air time on a local LP station to keep the analog broadcast going after 02/17/09?
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post #905 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 03:34 PM
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That possibility occurred to me months ago, and I'm surprised that we haven't heard about this kind of thing before now. This might be a great time to have an analog Low Power in a major market. Can you imagine the bidding wars in LA?
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post #906 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

I have several questions about this. One, would the FCC see this as a end-run around the analog shutdown?

On the surface no. Stations will lease out other stations for all kinds of reasons. Happens all the time.

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Two, because WWTD's digital channel is different from their analog channel, could they broadcast both a digital and analog signal after next February until they are told to shut down the analog channel?

From what I have been told, no. Once a LP applies for a LtoC, they have to shut down the analog, no matter when that happens, pre or post transition, even if the analog and digital are different channels. I think that is why you don't see a flood of LP's going digital right now.

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Has anyone heard of other full power major network stations looking to get air time on a local LP station to keep the analog broadcast going after 02/17/09?

No, but I know of stations who have lost their towers buy all the air time on another station and the only time you know which station it is, is the top of the hour legal ID. It happened in 1989 when WRAL and WPTF (now WRDC) lost their towers and WRAL bought all the time on WKFT (now WUVC) and WPTF bought all of WYED's (now WNCN) air time. This went on for a year or more until the towers were rebuilt. Both stations operated as if they were still on their respective channels except for the top of the hour legal ID when they did ID the actual station they were on.

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post #907 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

That possibility occurred to me months ago, and I'm surprised that we haven't heard about this kind of thing before now. This might be a great time to have an analog Low Power in a major market. Can you imagine the bidding wars in LA?

No channels available and it takes years to get a new station, full power or LP on the air. It is cheaper and easier to just lease time on an existing station.

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post #908 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

End run - of a sorts - around the analog shutdown?

www.dcrtv.com posted the following report that WJLA ABC 7 in Washington DC is looking to lease airtime from a local LP station, WWTD-LP 49, to carry the analog signal next year. dcrtv is not the most reliable news source so WJLA may just be in talks with WWTD about this.

"7 To Lease 49 For Analog Feed After Digital Deadline - 5/21 - DCRTV hears that Channel 7/WJLA owner Allbritton will lease low-powered Channel 49/WWTD, which currently runs the "WUFO" network's science fiction-ish shows. WWTD, which broadcasts from the WRC-TV tower on Nebraska Avenue, will carry WJLA's signal, we're told. We hear that Allbritton wants to have an analog broadcast signal for DC's ABC affiliate after full-power JLA joins all other full-power stations in flipping to a digital-only signal come February 2009. Low-power stations like WWTD will remain in the analog mode. More as we hear it....."

WWTD-LP 49 is one of those oddball LP station, but does have a respectable 150 kW or 59.2 kW power depending on how you measure it. Covers the city and much of the inside the beltway area pretty well. I get WWTD-LP 49 over the air from 16 miles outside of DC with a very noisy picture, but my UHF antenna is aimed 50 degrees away at Baltimore as I get the full power DC digital stations fine in the sidelobe. WWTD-LP also has a granted CP for a digital channel on UHF 14 (currently occupied by the analog WFDC 14 Univision station which will vacate the channel next February), but only at a 100 Watts.

I have several questions about this. One, would the FCC see this as a end-run around the analog shutdown? Two, because WWTD's digital channel is different from their analog channel, could they broadcast both a digital and analog signal after next February until they are told to shut down the analog channel? Has anyone heard of other full power major network stations looking to get air time on a local LP station to keep the analog broadcast going after 02/17/09?

It's also worth noting that most stations assume the vast majority of their viewers are getting the signal from cable or satellite (in general OTA accounts for <20% of the total audience,) so the cost benefit ratio would usually not favor such a strategy, other than the circumstances foxeng mentioned. Something I find interesting in my market: one of the local stations has had an analog repeater to cover a city at the far end of the DMA. When they decided to add a digital repeater, they did not apply for a digital companion, but rather a brand new application, and so it would appear this station is hedging its bets for 2/17/09.

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post #909 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

From what I have been told, no. Once a LP applies for a LtoC, they have to shut down the analog, no matter when that happens, pre or post transition, even if the analog and digital are different channels. I think that is why you don't see a flood of LP's going digital right now.

Depends on how they filed.

Some filed for "digital companion channels." WAHU-CA, for example, has a digital companion channel. They operate channel 27 analog and channel 40 digital simultaneously.

A lot of stations, though, filed for displacement or to flash-cut.

I looked at the license for WWTD-LP, and it has a companion channel, so it looks like they could operate their analog 49 and digital 14 at the same time. See here:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....lity_id=168792

That says channel 38; they got a new CP for channel 14 later on, as a displacement off of that channel 38.

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post #910 of 7370 Old 05-22-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

That possibility occurred to me months ago, and I'm surprised that we haven't heard about this kind of thing before now. This might be a great time to have an analog Low Power in a major market. Can you imagine the bidding wars in LA?

Depends on whether there are LP stations in LA that cover much of the core population area that are strapped for cash, don't have a network affiliation (one of the Spanish language nets) with a contract that stops them from carrying another network for a time, and are on in-core channel. Also, the FCC has indicated that they plan to require all LP and TXs to go digital in 3 years after 2009. So the analog LP stations may only be around for a few months or a year after next February.

The thing is, as I see it, going digital can provide major benefits to LP stations in the more populated areas that get respectable ERPs and have the capital to take advantage of it. inside the cliff effect coverage area, instead of a noisy analog picture, they have a sharp digital picture, matching that of the major stations. They can put up multiple sub-channels, each going after a different niche (Spanish, religious, other languages). Or even offer a 720p HD sub-channel once the costs for that fall enough. I think once the converter boxes are widespread & people figure out how to hook them up, the LP stations that are still analog (well those that are not most of the local cable systems) will find themselves losing what viewers they have. There has been a rather big flap raised about why the converter boxes were not required to have RF passthrough. Go digital and be done with it.
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post #911 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I looked at the license for WWTD-LP, and it has a companion channel, so it looks like they could operate their analog 49 and digital 14 at the same time.

All I know is what a GM of a LP said a couple of months ago that when their companion digital channel is on the air and they file for the License to Cover, they are then required to turn off the analog. The FCC will not allow them to operate analog and digital transmitters at the same time. He may not know what he is talking about. I don't know. I don't keep up with the transition of the LP's (it is hard enough to keep up with the full timers with all the changes outpouring from the FCC theses days) so I will admit I am having to go on the word of others actually involved in that part of the transition.

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post #912 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

The thing is, as I see it, going digital can provide major benefits to LP stations in the more populated areas that get respectable ERPs and have the capital to take advantage of it.

While that is all true, the vast majority don't see it that way. They can't get past the fact that most CECB's don't have analog pass through and until they see past that, LP's will wallow around crying their same ole song of "Poor, Poor Pitiful Me," "we are the red-headed step children of the full power stations," "we dont' have the money," "we don't have the audience," "we don't have..." (fill in the blank).

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post #913 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 08:48 AM
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We have KJLA Ventura CA channel 57, which runs a satellite on KSMV-LP Los Angeles Channel 33. Here in central OC, we get their main digital loud and clear, and the satellite loud and clear, but the main analog is so nonexistent that the FCC stuck a totally different LP on the same channel (K55KD Oxnard, bumped from its original assignment).

I can't think of any reason for KSMV-LP to go digital, and so far as I can tell, they have not attempted to.
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post #914 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
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In my home market of Las Vegas, UHF "low power" stations at the 150kW limit easily cover the entire market and put out a clearer (on indoor antennas) analog picture than the full power NBC and Fox stations on low-VHF.
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post #915 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 05:15 PM
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With KJLA, it's not a question of power level or distance, it's a question of where the main transmitter is and what's in its way.
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post #916 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 06:17 PM
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KVPT PBS Fresno operates both analog and digital low power translator stations in Bakersfield. Analog is channel 34. Picture quality sucks. Digital is physical and virtual channel 18 (same as their analog channel in Fresno). Picture quality is great. 1 HD and 2 SD subchannels. I wonder if they are going to shut off the analog translator next February.

Most LP stations had great hopes that many people would not bother buying converters for or replacing many of their analog tvs, and therefore the lp stations would gain huge new audiences next February. They are starting to realize that this hope is in vain. I think the vast majority of LPs will switch to digital long before the FCC forces them to. If they don't then almost nobody will be watching them.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #917 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

... I think the vast majority of LPs will switch to digital long before the FCC forces them to. If they don't then almost nobody will be watching them.

Almost nobody does now. No big loss to most viewers.
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post #918 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

All I know is what a GM of a LP said a couple of months ago that when their companion digital channel is on the air and they file for the License to Cover, they are then required to turn off the analog.

I'm assuming you're referring to WGSR-LP? They filed their digital paperwork as a displacement, not as a companion channel.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=12834

For those who are unfamiliar, they argued that their current assignment on channel 39 would receive interference from another station, and filed to use a different frequency for their digital (channel 47).

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post #919 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Almost nobody does now. No big loss to most viewers.

You clearly don't like in a bilingual market. Not all low power stations are religious or independents on a shoestring budget. There are many low power stations with the resources and viewership (and cable carriage) to compete on equal footing with full power stations.
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post #920 of 7370 Old 05-23-2008, 09:45 PM
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http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-08-1185A1.pdf

That document shows that KRCA-DT has had its final channel changed from 45 to 35. Mexican coordination issues suck.

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post #921 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-08-1185A1.pdf

That document shows that KRCA-DT has had its final channel changed from 45 to 35. Mexican coordination issues suck.

I wonder what is happening with KESQ. They were having some serious Mexican coordination problems as well.

With KRCA on 35 and if KTBN gets 33, we would have a solid block of channels from 31 to 36, locally. Even with KRCA moving to 35, there will be a solid block from 41-44.

KMEX currently has their DTV operations on 35 and will be moving back to 34 for post-transition operations. If KRCA can re-use some of the KMEX/35 equipment, I'm sure it would be a greatly improved situation. Hopefully, Mexico won't make them jump through hoops to re-use this channel.

The LA DMA has 5 current 16 DTV channels at 60 and above, including the only DTV stations on 60 and 68.

By contrast, many of the teens are encumbered with Land Mobile allocations. If those can ever be freed, I think we will be needing them... assuming Mexican coordination can ever be obtained.

I am a bit perplexed that KSCI and KUSI will be sharing channel 18 for post-transition operations. Normally LA and San Diego full power stations can't share the same channel, though I don't see any interference on analog KSCI 18. Still, it would be nice to have a chance to DX KUSI.
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post #922 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 06:31 AM
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You clearly don't like in a bilingual market...

"Like" in a bilingual market? If you mean "live" in a bilingual market, you obviously know nothing about where I live.
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post #923 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 07:22 AM
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I'm also trying to figure out what is happening with KFTR in the LA area. They have received an extension for their DTV 47 CP, but KAZA is already operating on 47 and will be there for post-transition as well.

KFTR has a strong signal on 29, with whatever power they are actually using, so I don't know why they wouldn't just stay there. The SNR for this channel is the highest that I have (up to 34dB at times). If they are still running their 150kW STA on 29, I have to believe this is a good channel to keep.
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post #924 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 07:52 AM
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KFTR is planning to stay on 29, they're STILL waiting on Mexican coordination after all these years.

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post #925 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 08:03 AM
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Trip's posting of the KRCA-DT change made me take a look at recent station filings with the FCC asking for last minute changes in their digital channel assignment. There is a interesting long pleading from KTLM 40, a Spanish language station located in SW TX near the Mexican border. They state they can not build the Appendix B facility on UHF 20, so they want to operate on UHF 40 from the current tower. See http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519994937. They also claim that they did not know they could have saved money by opting for a digital flash cut of their current analog facility(!). However, the station is one of the border stations that want to retain their analog broadcast: "Sunbelt is a strong supporter of HR 5435, legislation known as the DTV Border Fix Act, which is currently pending in Congress." Ok, so Mexico does not have a Emergency Broadcast System, so that justifies a border station staying in analog? Are radios that hard to come by?
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post #926 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 04:42 PM
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I thought a full power channel 45 in LA would be too close to Bakersfield. Bakersfield has KUVI analog 45 current digital 55 moving to 45 post transition. The signals might clash in the Lancaster/Palmdale/Rosamond/Mojave area.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #927 of 7370 Old 05-24-2008, 04:55 PM
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KTBN-DT wants channel 33, which is also used in Bakersfield. They have channel 23, but it has problems with KVMD-DT. Wonder if anything will come of that.

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post #928 of 7370 Old 05-25-2008, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I'm assuming you're referring to WGSR-LP?

No. I don't know Matt. Never have talked to him.

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post #929 of 7370 Old 05-25-2008, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

I wonder what is happening with KESQ. They were having some serious Mexican coordination problems as well.

With KRCA on 35 and if KTBN gets 33, we would have a solid block of channels from 31 to 36, locally. Even with KRCA moving to 35, there will be a solid block from 41-44.

KMEX currently has their DTV operations on 35 and will be moving back to 34 for post-transition operations. If KRCA can re-use some of the KMEX/35 equipment, I'm sure it would be a greatly improved situation. Hopefully, Mexico won't make them jump through hoops to re-use this channel.

The LA DMA has 5 current 16 DTV channels at 60 and above, including the only DTV stations on 60 and 68.

By contrast, many of the teens are encumbered with Land Mobile allocations. If those can ever be freed, I think we will be needing them... assuming Mexican coordination can ever be obtained.

I am a bit perplexed that KSCI and KUSI will be sharing channel 18 for post-transition operations. Normally LA and San Diego full power stations can't share the same channel, though I don't see any interference on analog KSCI 18. Still, it would be nice to have a chance to DX KUSI.

A month or so back I was reading some stuff about this and while I wasn't digesting every little tidbit, if I remember correctly, since KMEX has some Mexican clearance, it wasn't enough and that is why they are moving, while KRCA is further away and had some Mexican clearance issues but when they move to KMEX's old channel, there is enough clearance to make it work. It is much more complicated than that, but in a nutshell that is it. I don't know all of the details to go beyond this.

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post #930 of 7370 Old 05-27-2008, 06:16 AM
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Digging through some more Proceeding 87-268 filings and petitions to the FCC, came across the following posted in April & May:

WHNS-DT Fox 21 in Greenville, VA wants a ERP of 496 kW and 744 m HAAT instead of 160 kW: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519894631.
WUFX-DT MyN 35: if the commission can not provide the UHF 41 allotment they want, the station wants to flash cut to UHF 35 instead: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519998755.
Long petition from Univision for changes to Teleflura affiliates WOFT-DT 43 in Melborne, FL and WFUT-DT 68 in Newark, NJ at http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519998857.

NPR wants the FCC to revisit the decision to keep channels 5 & 6 for TV: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519894593. Strikes me as a bit late to ask for this now.
ABC/Disney, owners of WPVI-DT ABC 6 in Philly states their opposition to this with some history of how WPVI-DT ended up with a post assignment of VHF 6: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6520010496.
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