resolution of hdtv vs dvd - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-02-2001, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought that DVD was as good a video quality as you can get but now I am seeing that its not. I just got a Toshiba 61HX70 61" HDTV and it says its 1280 lines of resolution. But my Apex DVD player says its 500.
Is this true that HDTV is much better video quality then DVD?

thanks
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post #2 of 16 Old 11-02-2001, 03:50 PM
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Yes, for 720p and 1080i HDTV sources - they are
"much better" than DVD...

*but* there are alot of HDTV programs which
don't take full advantage of the HDTV standards
so they may not look better than DVDs.

Also very many displays on the market can show
the full detail of HDTV so they also don't look
that much different than DVDs.
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-02-2001, 03:51 PM
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Yes, most HDTV is significantly better than DVD. HDTV is either 1080i or 720p whereas DVD is either 480i or 480p. The quality of HDTV transfers varies greatly however. Poor HD transfers may not be much better than DVD, but a good HD transfer is MUCH better.

Tim
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-02-2001, 06:50 PM
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The HD quality is much better than the DVD quality. I have had HD for about two hours now and I love it.

OUT

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post #5 of 16 Old 11-03-2001, 08:38 AM
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Size of the display plays a great part in showing the difference between good DVD and Good HD. On a smaller set the difference, while evident, may not be mindblowing. On a large front projection setup good HD looks breathtaking in a way that DVD does not. HD done well spoils one for everyting else. We spend thousands of dollars on scalers and the like to vainly try to equal HD from non-HD sources. Art
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-04-2001, 04:29 AM
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It's not clear what Apex model you have, but if you have the $200 model 600, or similar, that resolution limit of 500 seems reasonable. Clearly something has to give at very low hardware prices.

Using the Avia DVD test disc, I can clearly distinguish resolution lines up to ~625 with my DVD player. (Don't hold me to that number, it's been several months since I ran the test.) It's a 16-month-old Toshiba SD-6200, which was a mid-price level unit when I bought it (~$700), but it's much less expensive now. While DVDs may have a theoretical resolution of up to 720 pixels horizontally (both 4:3 and 16:9), prefiltering of signals, which depends on the disc producer, typically trims this resolution. Agree with the comments above. I've encountered a few high-quality DVDs that seem to approximate the appearance of some low-quality HDTV programs. That is, you can crank down the production fidelity of HDTV so that it appears similar to some DVDs. -- John
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-04-2001, 04:22 PM
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I have a FPTV setup. I have spent so much time, effort and money to try to get DVD's at the level of HDTV. Still not quite there yet. HD is breathtaking.
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-07-2001, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies, guys.
If DVD has a resolution limit of 720, they will become obsolete when everyone switches over to HD in 2006, no?
I guess in the near future, they will create some new media like SDVD that will be more comparable to HD hopefully.

Tony
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-07-2001, 10:08 AM
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I now have a Progressive scan DVD player and while this did offer much improvement over my previous Toshiba SD3109 fed through a T-1500 line doubler, it still is not the same quality of DishNetwork and DirecTV HDTV. Even when we see HDTV in the resolution limited film transfers from HBO the DVD does not equal these.

While we are pushing the ceiling of standard definition DVD the real concern is that HDTV is supposed to be 3 times the resolution of DVD but through compression and scaling of the P&S process in the film transfers, we probably rarely receive fill bandwidth HDTV from Satellite and broadcast. I have seen D5 HDTV direct off tape and it is much sharper than anything I have seen off any OTA HDTV. Having said that, I still will insist that HDTV sits heads and shoulders above DVD, even with Progressive scan players and an FPTV. It is just that while we are easily looking at the upper end of the technical spec on DVD we are only scratching the bottom of the quality on HDTV. Lots of room to grow with this format.

In the near future, I trust we will have DVD's in true HDTV as well but until that happens, broadcast or sat. is the only source for HDTV.
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-07-2001, 11:59 AM
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>> It is just that while we are easily looking
>> at the upper end of the technical spec on
>> DVD we are only scratching the bottom of
>> the quality on HDTV. Lots of room to grow
>> with this format.

Nicely said!
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-07-2001, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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what advantages does a progressive scan dvd player offer over a non progressive scan player?
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-07-2001, 09:48 PM
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Progressive DVD has a more solid image with
less flicker.

This is an HDTV forum so you might get better
answers in one of the DVD forums.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-08-2001, 06:58 AM
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Hmm. I'm definitely not in the DVDs-match-HDTV resolution camp, so I'll elaborate a bit on my comment above about very poor HDTV approximating very good DVD picture quality.

Lots of threads in the programming forum discuss poor 1080i quality. Don't think it's unreasonable to wind up with a full-screen 16:9 horizontal resolution of only 800-1000 displayed pixels. That's factoring in potential filtering by the director (film or tape), perhaps limitations in the HDTV tape equipment (<1440-pixel HDCAMs in the link), and ~20% filtering at the receiver.

As for vertical resolution, depending on the motion in the images, it might be 800 lines (static) or only 400 lines (dynamic). This Tuesday (my 11/6 post) is the last time I dragged out these measurements based on data from the FCC's experts. That thread cites (as sublinks) other resolution-limiting factors--plus, absolutely free, some resolution-related Anna Kournikova links. :)

Anyway, if you take a worse case 1080i dynamic image, say 400 X 800, IMO there may be times when it compares to a DVD with a potential horizontal resolution of 700+ (with minimum prefiltering). Also, with a HTPC or scaler, some boost the apparent resolution of DVDs by replicating or artificially generating pixels (not original samples). That may be where some mistakenly think they're seeing HDTV-equivalent resolution. -- John
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-08-2001, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
I have seen D5 HDTV direct off tape and it is much sharper than anything I have seen off any OTA HDTV.
Now that's intriguing. Any theories as to why? Not many of us can catch 1080i (presumably) direct from D5. Wonder if that's looking at the output on a professional monitor without the filtering that would normally be built into a home receiver to limit horizontal resolution? As CBS's Bob Ross pointed out a while back, some of the D5 program tapes they require have prior HDCAM processing--a step that limits resolution to <1440. He also said this <1440 limitation isn't that noticeable. -- John
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-08-2001, 10:26 AM
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"Studio" HDTV often looks better because
the datarate is much higher so there are
no noticable compression artifacts.

Unless you see it yourself you probably
don't know what you are missing.

========================================
Even if HDTV is butchered down to DVD resolution
you probably still have an advantage with HDTV
because DVDs still have a lower resolution
(quarter res) color field resolution.

In other words DVD has like 720x480 of Luminance
(Black and White pixel info) but only 360x240
of Chroma (color pixel info).

HDTV downrezed/filtered down to 720x480 should
still have 720x480 worth of chroma info.
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-08-2001, 04:25 PM
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Thanks for the reminder, PVR. Not enough thinking about the statement at this end. D5, I believe, is considerably compressed compared to full-bandwidth 1080i HDTV (1+ Gbps), but still carries considerably more detail than the greatly compressed and filtered signal emerging from an ATSC encoder at 19.3 Mbps and fed to transmitters. -- John
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