Are we going to be the losers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 12-06-2001, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Two months ago, I bought the new Sony XBR 40" high def. TV. I also purchased the Sony high def dish and the HD 100.
I then subscribed to direct TV and life was a charm, for two weeks. At that time I start hearing about DVI and IEEEEE and that Direct TV in the future it will down rez my 1080 signal. It makes me sick to think I dropped nearly 5,000 dollars to only be cutting edge for a year or so. I assume that every single person out there with high definition TV, receiver and dish as myself is in the same boat. My only hope is that Direct TV will grandfather the current high definition systems that are out there now and not down rez our signal. Is anybody out there as concerned about this as I am? For once in my life I hope I am misinformed.
Thank you.
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post #2 of 11 Old 12-06-2001, 09:42 PM
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Mike,

This has been beaten to death here, in the recent past.

Bottom line, no one knows the answer to your queston at this time.

Try a search for 5C & DVI. That will keep you busy for awhile.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #3 of 11 Old 12-08-2001, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ken,
Thank you for the reply.
I just found this board and like it.
This dVI issue was new news to me and set me back a little.
At this time I will ride it out with everyone else but at some point I think a petition thru a lawyer would be in order.
I would like to see this DVI issue news (not what it means in the future but what it means to current HDTV owners) reach Rep Tauzin fast.
I dont mind being step one in new technology but when it goes to step two I dont want to be left holding only bills for equipment that does not conform.
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post #4 of 11 Old 12-08-2001, 01:45 PM
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I am fairly new to this board also but not new to the world of fan boards or HDTV.

You are into a cutting edge transition-most of the gurus on this board have hashed things out months ago and are always three or four months ahead of reality. You have not lost anything with your investments or fun.

The digital world is changing the way of life for everyone, HDTV is just one.

The pioneers will always be in first and spend more $ than the general public, but take pride in the fact that you were one of the first.

However, if you want to ride the train of HDTV bring your checkbook and be ready for change!
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post #5 of 11 Old 12-24-2001, 09:07 AM
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Well, as was originally stated, this issue has been argued both ways (will it/won't it) for a while now.

In a nutshell (my condensed version) that DVI/5C is very far off as a reality. Not only would encoding of existing HD material be needed, but, the new stuff coming online would require a new purchase for all the broadcasters.

Politically speaking, broadcasters want to get into as many homes as possible, movie producers want to protect their "property" as much as possible from theft. Since there is no advertising (in the classic term) with movies, their revenue is generated solely by sales. Broadcasters don't care, as they get revenue from advertisers.

This is a pretty wicked tug-o-war. The current FCC chair is more inclined to side with the broadcasters than the movie houses, as the FCC will have to foot the bill (litterally!) to pay for all the broadcasters with existing HD equipment to switch over to a new standard.

I can't remember where I saw it, but, PBS is required by law _NOT_ to send encoded/encrypted signals out to customers via OTA or otherwise. Part of their charter as a "public utility". If PBS don't do it, nobody will.

The reason nobody else will do it is because they all get federal dollars to help subsidise their broadcasts. (i.e. they get $$$ in exchange for being on the Emergency Broadcast System)

Its a nice little game the studios had going with the FCC. DIVX (not the MPEG encoding codec) died horribly because it was more of a hassle than a service. Same will hold true for DVI/5C. If the consumers don't buy into it, HDTV will never take hold.

One other perspective is that HDTV recording devices are still very esoterric, so the need for copy protection at that level is still far off. And even when it does come out, look at what has happened with DVDs. They cracked the DCSS in a matter of months, and now virtually any DVD can be copied. Just wait till HD-DVDs actually hit the market. Those will be cracked in a matter of minutes. <hehe>

If you purchase a new TV every 5-7 years, you will be safe. If your like my father with the same console television for 20 years, your screwed.
<we had to finally PAY someone to take that damn elephant out of the house before I could get him to buy a new 27" Philips...)


Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays!

-Warlock
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post #6 of 11 Old 01-01-2002, 01:04 PM
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Mitsubishi is covering their customers with the "Promise".

Kipp
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post #7 of 11 Old 01-02-2002, 06:31 AM
 
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Unless your TV can do a full 1920x1080, you can't display full "non down-rez'd" HD anyway. Most digital TV's can show a digital image, but not truly high-definition as the specification dictates. Knowing this, broadcaster feel they can downconvert with few noticing. I'm not defending this position, it's just that anyone who spent less than $12,000 for a true HD set/projector won't notice a whole helluva lot. Besides, with a Sony 40" digital set, life should be grand at any resolution. Again, not bashing your product choice, just trying to put this issue in perspective. If they downconvert to 480p, depending on signal strength you'll probably see it. If they simply shave enough to fit in copy protection, etc, you very well may not. In all cases, we're speculating. We aren't even sure if any broadcaster intended to show true HD long-term, anyway. As I understand the rules on this, the signal has to be digital only; that does not specify that it has to be 1080i/720p. I own a digital set myself, so I'm no less happy about this that you are.:rolleyes:
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post #8 of 11 Old 01-02-2002, 09:54 AM
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Sure DVI and firewire concern me, but how can I be a loser with having been able to watch HDTV in all it's glory for over a year now why others sit back and wait for things to be sorted out?
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post #9 of 11 Old 01-02-2002, 09:59 AM
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iboon - I agree (mostly) with what you say,
but:
>> "it's just that anyone who spent less
>> than $12,000 for a true HD set/projector
>> won't notice a whole helluva lot."

I (like some others) got a Sony w900 off of
eBay for $750 that CAN resolve very close
to 1920x1080. I will likely notice and hate any
downrezzing done to 1080i signals that I watch.

I think downrezzing the analog outputs is a
mistake since their whole point of this effort
is to reduce the chance of someone recording
the full quality image. If someone was
determined to record the HDTV signal it
is likely that they would find a way to record
the digital stream and not the uncompressed
analog outputs.

In other words I think they risk more from
providing additional digital outputs (even
if there are attempts made to protect them)
than from the analog outputs. Recording from
analog outputs is a "lossy" system that has
generational loss and PQ reductions which
keep it from being as scary as a "napster like"
digital format.

Does anyone have any idea how many W-VHS VCRs
are out there? I don't think it is very many.
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post #10 of 11 Old 01-02-2002, 01:23 PM
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No worries Mike.

I can think of a dozen reasons not to add copy protection measures and yet I can only think of 1 to do it....SHORTSIGHTED GREED

Fortunately greed also workes both sides of the fence and any copy protection device implemented will soon succumb to many that will bypass it.

Unfortunately the shortsighted never adopt the business model of LESS RESTRICTIONS = MORE PROFITS AND HAPPY CUSTOMERS.
Trying to control the people never works in the end.
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post #11 of 11 Old 01-03-2002, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
Mitsubishi is covering their customers with the "Promise".
I love having a mits:)

Hope that they will come through when the time comes:cool:

Fred M. DeGrandis Jr.
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