New to HDTV world, need help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-07-2001, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently bought a Toshiba 57" HD monitor (57H81). All I have is OTA signal, one of which is Digital now, the rest are supposed to go digital in May, '02 (total of 5-6).
I don't know anything about HD signals other than you need a $800 STB to recieve them.
Question 1 is: Are there different OTA siginals? Analog, HD and digital? Or is Digital = HD?

I am thinking of getting a Dish to get more HD. I was thinking of a Dish 6000 with OTA HD converter. But now I saw a message about a 721 or 921? Dish that's supposed to do even more. With the mereger of Dish & Dtv, and CES comming in Jan I don't know what to do. Get something now, or wait untill all my locals go digital?

I did get a progressive scan DVD player, and the picture looks GREAT!

Any help, or where to look for more info is greatly appreciated!
Bryan
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-08-2001, 01:17 AM
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first, read the FAQ that is listed at the top of each forum.

as for q1, no, DTV does not necessarily mean HDTV.

HDTV is 1080 lines. actually, original specs call for over 1100 lines.

DTV is 480 p/i

the FAQ answers these...

leo d.
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-08-2001, 07:15 AM
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Welcome to the forums. You could probably find an RCA DTC100 STB for considerably less than $800 if cost is a factor. But anyone should read up on this early-model STB to learn what additional hardware they might need for their system. Although costlier, I'd look into Zenith's new 1080 STB, providing new users are satisfied (see big current thread). If I could install a DBS dish in my urban environment, I'd subscribe to DirecTV in order to get the fantastically expanding all-HDTV HDNET.

HDTV to homes is delivered in the ATSC format and comes in two flavors: 1080iX1920 and 720pX1280. Both are 16:9 screen formats. H/DTV stations may also deliver digital signals in 480p, with two scanning formats (table 2.1) that can be 4:3 or 16:9. These differ from standard analog NTSC stations that broadcast 480 interlaced lines (two 1/60-sec fields). DTV can be interlaced or progressive (1/60-sec 480-line picture frame) or other formats (see table 2.1). Also, standard NTSC 480i broadcast signals are limited to the bandwidth of 6-MHz TV channels, so can only deliver about 440 lines (full screen width). That translates into less picture details than DTV's 640 or 704 horizontal pixels. (NTSC delivered by cable or satellite, though, isn't limited to a 6-MHz channel, could by MPEG-2 compressed like DVD recordings, and may match digital stations' 480-format MPEG-2 fidelity.)
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-08-2001, 07:58 AM
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480i = SDTV

480p = EDTV (Enhanced Digital TV)

720p, 1080i = HDTV

p= progessive
i= interlaced

Jens Wellmann
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PC DTV Technologies, LLC
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-08-2001, 08:06 AM
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standard NTSC delivered by cable or satellite isn't limited to a 6MHz.

well one can interpret the above statement as a good thing but John, standard NTSC has to be limited to 6MHz, because it is standard NTSC nothing more nothing less.

perhaps you meant the digital converted version of a standard NTSC station isn't limited to 6MHz. well yeah but show me any system that converted to digital so that they can increase the bandwidth available for any one analog station.

Standard NTSC via satellite can only be had via BUD type systems. DirecTV and DISH don't do standard NTSC. It's compressed Digital.

That said the original poster my have other options especially if a homeowner. Options such as C-Band/Ku Band satellite, or ExpressVu. These systems offer more HDTV stations than DirectV or DISH.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-08-2001, 08:52 AM
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Thanks, imws, for the fine tuning. Agree there's one too many 'standards' in there. I was trying to break out what may appear to be standard NTSC because it comes out of cable boxes--or elsewhere--as digital TV channels just like the NTSC analog channels.

That is, it's not digital ATSC from a digital station, but it's NTSC that's fed to your standard NTSC input connections. And if it's MPEG-2-compressed, it may carry ~700 pixels of horizontal resolution instead of NTSC broadcast TV's 6-MHz limitation of 440 lines. Such a cable-TV digital signal may originate from a wide-bandwidth studio-level tape or RGB camera output that becomes bandwidth-restricted after standard NTSC encoding for OTA broadcasting.

Also agree there are more HDTV access methods; thought I'd just touch on one here. -- John
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-11-2001, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help. I still don't know what to do. I think I should wait until all my locals go digital in May, and I get to see what CES is "showing" off this year.
I do have all those options to me. DirecTV, Dish, Big Dish (C or Ku) I don't know where to find more about it. I wan't aware Big dish was carrying HD. I have seen some free to air big dish receivers, I would assume these would not carry HD siginal.
I can almost forget about cable. My only neighbors are cows, so what ever I ger is going to come from the air.
I do want to be able to improve my picture quality of locals when they all go digital in May, I guess I'll have to wait to see what options are available to me at the time. Right now I'm leaing toward a Dish system with OTA converter. But then what do I do with Tivo? I guess run a splitter, standard quality to Tivo, HD to the STB? Maybe Dish will have an answer to their 921 setup at CES.

Thanks again everyone. I'm just going to have to wait a few months.
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-12-2001, 10:37 AM
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As far as I know there is no HD on C or Ku dishes that you could recieve.
I'd stick to Direct TV
Rich

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post #9 of 15 Old 12-12-2001, 01:43 PM
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I don't have Ku or C myself, so I don't know the specifics, but based on other reports here, there is quite a bit of HD available from the big dishes.

Perhaps someone else can chime in with the details.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #10 of 15 Old 12-14-2001, 01:44 AM
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In addition to directtv dishes, I have a c-band and get two each
showtime and hbo premium stations 24/7. Some of these are true high def and some are upconverted but in all cases higher quality than 480i.
The upfront costs can be higher than dish or directtv but the subscription costs lower.

www.delphiforums.com/ can give one more info on the 4dtv and HDD200 usage from existing users.
There are many sites available for c band users if one wishes to do the research, problem is, not many local dealers to do installations and service. I could go on about all the benefits of this format and superior picture quality over any of the other formats available to home users but if someone wants to pursue
this the rewards are definitely there.

Because the c band users are less than a million now(subscriber wise) and the small dish because of cost and convenience has captured a lot of these users, used big dish equipment can often be had for the asking. All you need is a place to put it without disrupting bad neighbors. (Mine is on a 12 foot pole behind the house at roof line free from prying eyes.) This isn't always a problem either but pretty much leaves out trailer park and apartment dwellers unless they can get together and share one in some cases.

hermithill
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post #11 of 15 Old 12-14-2001, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as big dish, not a problem, father in law is a satallite retailer and has access to a 12' solid metal (not mesh) dish. All I'd need is the lnb (either C band, or ku) and a reciever. He may actually have a 4dtv returned reciever at a discount. I'll just need to do research to find out wich is better, c or ku, what programming choices are, etc.

Thanks
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-15-2001, 02:59 AM
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Brian: you are indeed fortunate to have a family member in the business, if you're looking for the best regular programming with best picture, C=band with a 4dtv receiver is the way to go.
For high def movies, just add an HDD200 decoder to the 4dtv.
The ku channels have a lot of wild feeds and can be interesting but as your father-in-law will tell you, more for the hobbyist than family watching.
Even tho you don't see much in most of the forums about this format and it isn't promoted, bear in mind all cable programming is pulled from these satellites and the down conversion with long cable runs is what ruins the picture quality, you won't have that problem and once watched, nothing else will do as well. When you watch analog in this format, and listen to the more dynamic sounds, you wonder why its being switched to digital, the answer to that is profit and bottom line.

hermithill
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post #13 of 15 Old 12-15-2001, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don B
Brian: you are indeed fortunate to have a family member in the business, if you're looking for the best regular programming with best picture, C=band with a 4dtv receiver is the way to go.
For high def movies, just add an HDD200 decoder to the 4dtv.
The ku channels have a lot of wild feeds and can be interesting but as your father-in-law will tell you, more for the hobbyist than family watching.
Even tho you don't see much in most of the forums about this format and it isn't promoted, bear in mind all cable programming is pulled from these satellites and the down conversion with long cable runs is what ruins the picture quality, you won't have that problem and once watched, nothing else will do as well. When you watch analog in this format, and listen to the more dynamic sounds, you wonder why its being switched to digital, the answer to that is profit and bottom line.
I'll second that 4dtv decorder as I've seen it in action and the picture is stunning.

ABC HD - C band
NBC HD - Ku band
PBS HD - Ku band

HBO E and W HD - C band
ShowT E and W - C band

Paul Allens Sports network Ku band

Dave
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-15-2001, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that you have me hooked on getting 4DTV, what is the difference between C & Ku band?
Are the HD feeds free or subscription. I'm probably only interested in free channels on big dish since I can get most of the other channels on small dish. Altho if I could get Sho HD so I can watch StarGate in HD, well then I'd gess I'd want HBO so I can watch sex & the city. but who know. Can someone explain C & Ku in simple terms for me.

I've been searching the web for 4dtv stuff, 4dtv.com is pretty good, but I can't find very many programing providers.

Thanks
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-16-2001, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, if I go 4dtv with HD adapter, does it provide for OTA signal? But I guess on the other hand, who cares if it does if the big 3 are on the big dish in HD, why would I need to watch the local feed?
But I'm in a dilema, I'm a Tivo'holic. I work nights so wed-sun I'm not home to watch tv, I watch Tivo. Tivo does not have HD inputs (yet) so I'd still be watching regular TV. Now rumor has it Dish is working on their version of "ultimate TV" which is supposed to be a Hd turner (with pip?), PVR, and web box. Now for me this makes a little more sense. It will have an OTA adapter, and record in HD. So I'm still stuck!
Can't wait for CES so I can confuse myself even more!
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