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post #661 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 07:47 AM
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Information from another forum:
Quote:


Most OTA stations use the horribly poor Lucent/Harris encoder (because it's bundled with the RF equipment).

Makes me wonder...

Kirill
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post #662 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Kirill,
I wonder what they mean by "horribly poor"? As I recall at least two of our local stations currently use Harris FlexiCoder units and I am not sure what we are missing out with them using that unit. (we have heard here about the blanking situation; what else is problematic?). Would definitely be interesting to learn more on the subject.

Bruce

ps: I did find this link that has the Flexicoder manual though I have not gone through it. (and given it is directed to engineers it may be of little use to most of us).

Bruce
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post #663 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 02:01 PM
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Kirill-
Yes, it is exciting for some of us engineers. Viewers PAY to play with DTv, we get PAID to play with DTv..

As to the "horribly poor" Flexicoder. There's nothing wrong with the Harris/Lucent Flexicoder..That's what you're watching on WOLO-DT,
as well as WLTX and WRLK..Unless the opinion is from an experienced
broadcast engineer, I wouldn't accept it as credible. While I prefer Harmonic, the Lucent is far friendlier to configure, and there are somewhat worse encoders out there..

Bruce, I haven't forgotten you, got called out of town to WKFT for some
transmitter work..hang tight!

Bob

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post #664 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 06:52 PM
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WOLO-HD doesn't have sound right now. I happened to tune across it around 9:30PM and my receiver thinks it's getting Dolby Digital 5.1 but there's just silence. I checked again at 9:45PM and it's still silent. All my other HD channels (via TWC) are fine.
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post #665 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 07:38 PM
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This is the detailed information I got (thank you Ron):
Quote:


The Lucent/Harris encoder is just not state of the art.
It's actually 6 (for 1080i) SD encoders glued together. The
problem is that the 6 encoders run pretty much independently
and don't know what the others are doing. This is manifested
in a couple of ways. First, there's no motion vector
overlap between segments. That is, motion vectors cannot
cross over segment boundaries, so the blocks near the
edges of segments can be poorly estimated. Second, I-frame
insertion on scene change detection is on a segment basis
and seems overly sensitive. A whole segment in a P-frame
will get coded with intra blocks and waste a ton of bits
for no apparent reason. Finally, there's just no way that
this encoder can do inverse telecine.

If your director of engineering friend is considering an
MPEG-2 encoder upgrade, I would suggest the Divicom (now
Harmonic) MV400. See:

http://www.harmonicinc.com/stageone/...F051002s%2Epdf

Also, the Tandberg HD encoder is based on the same silicon
as the Divicom/Harmonic.

Hope it sheds more light,
Kirill
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post #666 of 10083 Old 03-28-2003, 09:32 PM
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Awesome job, WlTX and CBS. The Maryland v. Michigan State game was great. Great picture and a even greater finish. The single extra game was not really a factor in the overall image of the HD channel. 1080i image was awesome tonight and this morning! (PS. Dan, glad you don't use the auto off feature).
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post #667 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 04:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Brent Hutto
WOLO-HD doesn't have sound right now. I happened to tune across it around 9:30PM and my receiver thinks it's getting Dolby Digital 5.1 but there's just silence. I checked again at 9:45PM and it's still silent. All my other HD channels (via TWC) are fine.

Hi Brent,
We'll check this, my hunch is that the program did not have 5.1 audio, and thus our friends at ABC didn't feed anything on the 5.1 channel, which is what we use. If I'm correct, 8 Rules was a repeat that was out of it's
normal slot, which would probably be the problem, they didn't feed 5.1.
Of course, there could be a broke here as well.

Bob

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post #668 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 04:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kir
This is the detailed information I got (thank you Ron):
Hope it sheds more light,
Kirill

Everyone has their opinion...
We have a total of 6 encoders here, including the Harmonic Mv400's.
And, yes they are better,as we have compared them on-air side by side. But the Lucent isn't "horrible" based on our usage,(and watching 3 of them OTA here in Charlotte), if it were, they wouldn't be so many out
there.

Bob

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post #669 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 05:04 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Hi Brent,
We'll check this, my hunch is that the program did not have 5.1 audio, and thus our friends at ABC didn't feed anything on the 5.1 channel, which is what we use. If I'm correct, 8 Rules was a repeat that was out of it's
normal slot, which would probably be the problem, they didn't feed 5.1.
Of course, there could be a broke here as well.

Was it ok on Regular Joe?

Bob

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post #670 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 05:15 AM
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Bob,

I flipped by during a commercial break during the CBS game and it was indeed Regular Joe that had no sound.
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post #671 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 05:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kevinivey
Bob,

I flipped by during a commercial break during the CBS game and it was indeed Regular Joe that had no sound.

Ok, did 8 Simple Rules have audio, can anyone confirm either way?
Brent?

Thanks!

Bob

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post #672 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 06:21 AM
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To All. I am looking for comments on multipath/pixelizaton. Please see my March 29 message on: AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception > Western Carolinas HDTV
jb

JB - Asheville

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post #673 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 01:18 PM
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Sorry, I've been away from the computer. I only happened to check during Regular Joe, that's when it was silent. (I almost called it Dear John, wasn't that the last show Judd Hirsch was on?)
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post #674 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 03:03 PM
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Whats wrong with WOLO-DT today got normal signal strength,but no pic or sound ?
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post #675 of 10083 Old 03-29-2003, 09:31 PM
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WOLO has serious PSIP Problems. On my Samsung T150 it makes the box flop wildly from 8 to 25-1 to 25-2 and on my friend Samsung t165 and JVC HD Recorder the channel want pass through the firewire,When sending 25-1 to the recorder he gets part of the map on 25-2 and a flickering loop of 25-1 on the right side of the screen. Another friend's RCA DTC 100 dropout every few seconds if he put his "Out Of Air Guide" option back on. It did these things before, it got better, then it started back again. Sure wish what ever was working before Friday was put back.
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post #676 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 10:36 AM
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We installed a software patch Monday that was supposed to prevent
this problem, caused by a corrupt PSIP Table that recurs on Saturday
Afternoons late. I'll drop by and correct it later today, and tomorrow make
a software guys day when I tell him to try again...

Bob

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post #677 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 11:21 AM
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Is anybody having serious drop on signals from WACH-DT Today?

Oscar
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post #678 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 11:35 AM
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Oscar,
Have had a viewer in Columbia confirm WACH is dropping out.

Bob

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post #679 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 12:00 PM
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Bob,

Thanks for your quick reply.
Oscar
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post #680 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 04:13 PM
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No ABC-HD on WOLO Tonite due to an audio problem, We'll get it fixed as
soon as we can.

Bob

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post #681 of 10083 Old 03-30-2003, 07:00 PM
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I tuned in to the CBS HD basketball game today OTA channel 17-1 and it was horrible.

Static images were fine but motion was very badly pixelating. I stopped watching because it was so bad.

Anyone else watch this ?? Or try to?? Did it get better later in the broadcast ??

-- Cain
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post #682 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 02:39 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cain
I tuned in to the CBS HD basketball game today OTA channel 17-1 and it was horrible.

Static images were fine but motion was very badly pixelating. I stopped watching because it was so bad.

Anyone else watch this ?? Or try to?? Did it get better later in the broadcast ??

-- Cain

Cain,

I watched the entire game on Sunday. It was by far the best CBS HD basketball broadcast I have ever seen. No dropouts, no pixelation , and very little motion artifacts as compared to Friday's dual broadcast. I do not receive WLTX-DT ota, but via TWC. Great Job, CBS and WLTX. I can't hardly wait till next weekend.
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post #683 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 08:32 AM
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Starting Today March 31, WLTX will be broadcasting on Digital (RF ch. 17, 19-1 & 19-2 PSIP) from 12PM - 12:35 AM M-F and 12PM-12AM Sat-Sun.

When CBS is not providing a truse HD feed, WLTX will be upconverting its analog signal to digital for broadcast on digital.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
KARK-TV/DT
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post #684 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 09:54 AM
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Bob,
When WOLO's PSIP goes crazy, what is the easiest way to let you know? I was unable to get your station for a few days. I get a 90% signal strength but no picture. Fortunately, I have two antenna inputs on my set. I run one with PSIP enabled and the other with PSIP disabled. Thats how I knew you were on the air with a picture and not just a carrier. It also affects WOLO analog since you have mapped your PSIP to ch 25 as well. Give me a call at 803 776-3600.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
KARK-TV/DT
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post #685 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 12:43 PM
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Thanks Dan,
Good talking with you today.

Bob

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Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #686 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 01:31 PM
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Quote:


Everyone has their opinion...

While I agree 100%, that guy designs MPEG2 encoders for living. Also, as you can see from what he said, he has quite a few valid points.
Quote:


We have a total of 6 encoders here, including the Harmonic Mv400's.
And, yes they are better,as we have compared them on-air side by side.

So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else...
Quote:


But the Lucent isn't "horrible"...if it were, they wouldn't be so many out there

Lots of people use BOSE speakers, but they are still horrible
On a more serious note, that was already answered - because "Lucend comes bundled with RF equipment".

Again, nothing personal, Bob, I'm just trying to understand.

Thank you,
Kirill
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post #687 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 01:46 PM
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"So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else... "

Remember every penny we spend on digital television, the broadcasters make ZERO, nothing. There is no revenue stream for digital tv yet. While the Lucent Flexicoder isn't your recommended encoder, it was ours given the differences at the time. Also note most of the people made the deals to purchase their gear up to two years ago. The software has changed a lot since then and will continue to get better. However, when your car gets replaced by a new model you don't throw it away and buy the newer model if there isn't anything wrong with the old one.
There is no way to determine which encoder will be the best one to use in a couple of years. One vendor may stop supporting their product or a new vendor may come out with the best thing since sliced bread. Technology changes so fast that we cannot purchase the newest gear every year or it would no longer be FREE over the air service.

It cost you around a couple of thousand to get up and running with DTV. It cost us around 1000 times that to get started and still counting.


Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
KARK-TV/DT
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post #688 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 05:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kir
So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else...
Kirill

We do. WOLO-TV25 is carried by Harmonic..as Is WCCB-DT's 3 Channels.

We didn't buy Lucent because of the RF equipment, (as we use Thales),
we bought Lucent because it was the best choice vs cost at the time.

As to Bose, they are a valued client of WOLO. (and made in Columbia!)
I'd love to have an "older" pair of 901's....

Bob

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post #689 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 05:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bdfox18doe
We do. WOLO-TV25 is carried by Harmonic..as Is WCCB-DT's 3 Channels.



Quote:


As to Bose, they are a valued client of WOLO. (and made in Columbia!)
I'd love to have an "older" pair of 901's....

LOL!

Kirill
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post #690 of 10083 Old 03-31-2003, 05:48 PM
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Is it just me, or PBS is broadcasting half-power?
Since about Thursday I can't get it higher then 54%. All other OTA stations are at 100%

Kirill
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