Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 423 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12661 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
The issue is the selection of content they have released in HDR. Their best stuff is still only SDR.


This is a big problem That we have discussed before regarding Netflix. Their hdr selection is simply lacking.

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post #12662 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 05:15 AM
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My tv finally got the netflix hdr update yesterday. A Samsung js8500, I am not impressed, am i the only one that feels amazon hdr grades look way better then the netflix stuff? I mean its not even close. Ive checked out everything, I almost prefer the sdr versions with a few exceptions, the sdr even looks sharper overall. WTH?
First let me tell you my setup - My OLED B6 supports DV HDR and HDR10 ... Netflix offers both DV and HDR10 for an increasing number of titles (e.g. Jessica Jones). This way, when I play the title on my LG OLED ... it plays in DV. The same title on my Roku Premier Plus plays in HDR10 (since Roku does not support DV). This way I can compare both formats. Both TV and Roku also play Amazon's HDR10 titles.

I can unequivocally say that Netflix DV titles looks leaps better than HDR10.
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post #12663 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
My tv finally got the netflix hdr update yesterday. A Samsung js8500, I am not impressed, am i the only one that feels amazon hdr grades look way better then the netflix stuff? I mean its not even close. Ive checked out everything, I almost prefer the sdr versions with a few exceptions, the sdr even looks sharper overall. WTH?

The issue is the selection of content they have released in HDR. Their best stuff is still only SDR.
I would think a show like luke cage or jessica jones would benefit from hdr but not so much from the little i have seen. Blacks look choppy and washed out in some scenes, it even looks less sharp for some reason. I remember when amazon first came on board with hdr it was wishy washy at best but has improved dramatically since.
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post #12664 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
My tv finally got the netflix hdr update yesterday. A Samsung js8500, I am not impressed, am i the only one that feels amazon hdr grades look way better then the netflix stuff? I mean its not even close. Ive checked out everything, I almost prefer the sdr versions with a few exceptions, the sdr even looks sharper overall. WTH?
First let me tell you my setup - My OLED B6 supports DV HDR and HDR10 ... Netflix offers both DV and HDR10 for an increasing number of titles (e.g. Jessica Jones). This way, when I play the title on my LG OLED ... it plays in DV. The same title on my Roku Premier Plus plays in HDR10 (since Roku does not support DV). This way I can compare both formats. Both TV and Roku also play Amazon's HDR10 titles.

I can unequivocally say that Netflix DV titles looks leaps better than HDR10.
Im sure it does. Even from the panasonic 4k player netflix hdr looks wayyy dark, like theres something not playing right together between the two.
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post #12665 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
First let me tell you my setup - My OLED B6 supports DV HDR and HDR10 ... Netflix offers both DV and HDR10 for an increasing number of titles (e.g. Jessica Jones). This way, when I play the title on my LG OLED ... it plays in DV. The same title on my Roku Premier Plus plays in HDR10 (since Roku does not support DV). This way I can compare both formats. Both TV and Roku also play Amazon's HDR10 titles.



I can unequivocally say that Netflix DV titles looks leaps better than HDR10.


That could be a number of things. The grading, how the tv handles hdr10, the scene by scene metadata. Lots of factors can contribute but it is kind of what I expect.

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post #12666 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
First let me tell you my setup - My OLED B6 supports DV HDR and HDR10 ... Netflix offers both DV and HDR10 for an increasing number of titles (e.g. Jessica Jones). This way, when I play the title on my LG OLED ... it plays in DV. The same title on my Roku Premier Plus plays in HDR10 (since Roku does not support DV). This way I can compare both formats. Both TV and Roku also play Amazon's HDR10 titles.

I can unequivocally say that Netflix DV titles looks leaps better than HDR10.
@umenon ,

You are in the unique position to be able to watch both the DV and HDR10 version of the same show/movie. I wish I could do the same!

Can you please explain what exactly it is about the DV picture that makes it unequivocally superior to the HDR10 picture from the Roku premier plus? Please try to be very specific.

Also are you aware of the recent firmware updates for the Roku that allows you to change from 4:2:2 to 4:2:0 via a secret menu (many people were experiencing banding issues using 4:2:2 that apparently is fixed by changing to 4:2:0)?
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post #12667 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by THEBIGWET View Post
@umenon ,

You are in the unique position to be able to watch both the DV and HDR10 version of the same show/movie. I wish I could do the same!

Can you please explain what exactly it is about the DV picture that makes it unequivocally superior to the HDR10 picture from the Roku premier plus? Please try to be very specific.

Also are you aware of the recent firmware updates for the Roku that allows you to change from 4:2:2 to 4:2:0 via a secret menu (many people were experiencing banding issues using 4:2:2 that apparently is fixed by changing to 4:2:0)?

Here is a good article:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision
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post #12668 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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Heh. I think we're all aware of the claims and technical specs, but an actual real life anecdotal report is what was being sought . It's very rare so far to be able to compare the formats with the same content from the same source via the same medium.
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post #12669 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
I would think a show like luke cage or jessica jones would benefit from hdr but not so much from the little i have seen. Blacks look choppy and washed out in some scenes, it even looks less sharp for some reason. I remember when amazon first came on board with hdr it was wishy washy at best but has improved dramatically since.


Luke Cage looked pretty good in hdr10 on my ks9800.

I believe your using a 2015 JS8500 right? Well, your issues begin there. The tv is only 500 nits or so, so your tv is going to clip both 1000 and 4000 nit content. Hdr10 doesn't have self tone mapping and shows up dark, usually you have ever to adjust your settings to correct the tvs lack of tone mapping. Tvs in the 500 nits range seriously need Dolby Vison with its custom tone mapping system, and it won't be dark anymore. It is extremely unlikely that samsung updates the 2015 sets with tone mapping abilities.
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post #12670 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Heh. I think we're all aware of the claims and technical specs, but an actual real life anecdotal report is what was being sought . It's very rare so far to be able to compare the formats with the same content from the same source via the same medium.
In real-life, it seems to follow the same rules as recordings. It's the "mastering" that count. There can be great HDR10 and great DV content, the format does not guarantee quality. Technically, you can read the articles that will give DV the edge due to dynamic meta-data and end-to-end quality controls.

I have seen some good DV content on Netflix but there is no DV on UHD yet, so there is no real-life experience.

Dolby is not reviewing any master for best practices, just as Sony does not review the quality of SACD's.
As for UHD disks,, I'd like to say read the reviews but I did that with the UHD Magnificent Seven which (5-stars) which I feel is tragic (and I liked the film).

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post #12671 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Luke Cage looked pretty good in hdr10 on my ks9800.

I believe your using a 2015 JS8500 right? Well, your issues begin there. The tv is only 500 nits or so, so your tv is going to clip both 1000 and 4000 nit content. Hdr10 doesn't have self tone mapping and shows up dark, usually you have ever to adjust your settings to correct the tvs lack of tone mapping. Tvs in the 500 nits range seriously need Dolby Vison with its custom tone mapping system, and it won't be dark anymore. It is extremely unlikely that samsung updates the 2015 sets with tone mapping abilities.
I thought that the PQ tone mapping is at the heart of the HDR10 standard?

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post #12672 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought that the PQ tone mapping is at the heart of the HDR10 standard?
There is zero tone mapping with static hdr10. It is 100% dependent on the tv manufacture to implement their own mapping system. To date, the only hdr10 tone mapping is the 2016 samsung tvs. This was all covered in an excellent AVS podcast with Stacey Spears of spectracal last summer.
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post #12673 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:30 AM
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There is zero tone mapping with static hdr10. It is 100% dependent on the tv manufacture to implement their own mapping system. To date, the only hdr10 tone mapping is the 2016 samsung tvs. This was all covered in an excellent AVS podcast with Stacey Spears of spectracal last summer.
Gotcha, thanks. Glad I got a 2016 model, then
Edit: episode 316? I'll add it to my list. Thanks again.

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post #12674 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:31 AM
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The HDR on Pacific Rim adds so much brightness and details to the picture that some of the content just jumps out of the screen giving it a 3D look almost.
Who has compared the HDR to the 3D version of Pacific Rim? I am a bit conflicted which to purchase… which means I will likely end up with both. 😋
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post #12675 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
I would think a show like luke cage or jessica jones would benefit from hdr but not so much from the little i have seen. Blacks look choppy and washed out in some scenes, it even looks less sharp for some reason. I remember when amazon first came on board with hdr it was wishy washy at best but has improved dramatically since.


Luke Cage looked pretty good in hdr10 on my ks9800.

I believe your using a 2015 JS8500 right? Well, your issues begin there. The tv is only 500 nits or so, so your tv is going to clip both 1000 and 4000 nit content. Hdr10 doesn't have self tone mapping and shows up dark, usually you have ever to adjust your settings to correct the tvs lack of tone mapping. Tvs in the 500 nits range seriously need Dolby Vison with its custom tone mapping system, and it won't be dark anymore. It is extremely unlikely that samsung updates the 2015 sets with tone mapping abilities.
Well im going qled soon as they get released so it will be a moo point in a few months. Still, same tv, comparing amazon hdr and netflix hdr amazon wins out on my set, at least for now. The grading is just way better in my opinion
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post #12676 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 10:52 AM
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Compare them to Youtube HDR, that is what they should look like.
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post #12677 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 11:30 AM
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As for UHD disks,, I'd like to say read the reviews but I did that with the UHD Magnificent Seven which (5-stars) which I feel is tragic (and I liked the film).
Don't know which reviews you read, but our own Ralph Potts review of The Magnificent Seven noted that the UHD HDR version had been upconverted from 2K. He rated the video at 88 out of 100, which I thought was about right. Like you, I thought the film had a lot going for it. Unlike you, though, UHD HDR version struck me as excellent, clearly superior to the 1080p version. That said, I have seen posts in other threads, which expressed disappointment in the way the film looks. So it's "Buyer beware!" where this disk is concerned, I guess.
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post #12678 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 11:48 AM
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Don't know which reviews you read, but our own Ralph Potts review of The Magnificent Seven noted that the UHD HDR version had been upconverted from 2K. He rated the video at 88 out of 100, which I thought was about right. Like you, I thought the film had a lot going for it. Unlike you, though, UHD HDR version struck me as excellent, clearly superior to the 1080p version. That said, I have seen posts in other threads, which expressed disappointment in the way the film looks. So it's "Buyer beware!" where this disk is concerned, I guess.

What I did not like about the look of the film had nothing to do with the UHD HDR10 or potentially DV. It's a bit odd to have a movie created with film, digitized and heavily color-graded. IMO, this treatment took away from the film itself.


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Think about it, 99.5% of their users are watching the SDR version, they have to decide what is the best use of resources to pay for HDR color grades, and which projects are prioritized. also, not that many post houses in Hollywood are equipped for HDR grading, so I've heard there's a backlog.
Thanks, captain Obvious. We know most Netflix users dont have 4K TVs, yet Netflix offers a premium subscription that does cost quite a bit more. So they are certainly interested in extracting more money out of the 4K TV owners, but apparently don't want to spend much for grading premium content.

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post #12680 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 01:34 PM
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There is zero tone mapping with static hdr10. It is 100% dependent on the tv manufacture to implement their own mapping system. To date, the only hdr10 tone mapping is the 2016 samsung tvs. This was all covered in an excellent AVS podcast with Stacey Spears of spectracal last summer.
I ran the Sony test patterns (found on any Sony UHD disc) on my Sony x930d, and there appeared to be some tone mapping when the source was set to a 10,000 nit HDR10 stream, so instead of clipping at 1000 nits like you would expect, it was curved to see some minimal detail above 1000 nits.

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post #12681 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 01:42 PM
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I really liked Lucy. I actually saw it in the theater because I typically really like the stuff from Luc Besson.


I agree - Lucy was an excellent movie. Everyone has their own personal tastes and there is no arguing about it. These critics get paid for what they do and sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. I like what I like and a critics review won't change that. And Sherlock Season 4 was really bad - in my humble opinion!

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post #12682 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:04 PM
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I ran the Sony test patterns (found on any Sony UHD disc) on my Sony x930d, and there appeared to be some tone mapping when the source was set to a 10,000 nit HDR10 stream, so instead of clipping at 1000 nits like you would expect, it was curved to see some minimal detail above 1000 nits.

OK...gotta ask...where? I've popped in a couple of Sony discs and can't find any test patterns.

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post #12683 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:10 PM
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Well im going qled soon as they get released so it will be a moo point in a few months. Still, same tv, comparing amazon hdr and netflix hdr amazon wins out on my set, at least for now. The grading is just way better in my opinion
I agree with you. I have a 65" lg B6 which maps hdr 10 very well according to multiple pro calibrators on twitter (Kills my former p65 in my opinion) and has DV as well obviously. I prefer amazon's hdr10 to Netflix's Dolby vision with the possible exception of Luke cage on Netflix. VUDU Dolby vision does beat hdr10 disc in my opinion, although it is VERY close, closer than the Netflix/amazon gap.
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post #12684 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:24 PM
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I agree - Lucy was an excellent movie. Everyone has their own personal tastes and there is no arguing about it. These critics get paid for what they do and sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. I like what I like and a critics review won't change that. And Sherlock Season 4 was really bad - in my humble opinion!
Just finished Lucy and I liked it, both the story and production values. And I can see why have a HDR version is extra nice with all those lovely in-body CGI sequences

Yes some films are "critic proof" and as one critic I listen to regularly says, Hollywood needn't make such a fuss - in that nomatter how bad they are, they'll always rake in millions at the box offices and generate sequels. Doesn't in any way make them good films though. The role of a critic is never to tell you what you like! It's to watch all the films for you because no-one else has time to, and give you enough basic information to help you decide which ones to invest the time in watching.

Sherlock S4, over too soon. I think the last episode has polarised people somewhat. At least a proper ending, if they can't do another series. They're all too busy/successful to be free at the same time to do more

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post #12685 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:29 PM
 
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I agree - Lucy was an excellent movie. Everyone has their own personal tastes and there is no arguing about it. These critics get paid for what they do and sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. I like what I like and a critics review won't change that. And Sherlock Season 4 was really bad - in my humble opinion!
lol it was a movie about some broad being able to increasingly access more of her brain and being able to make others levitate with her mind. It was a stupid movie - there's no arguing that. It was still entertaining because of how absurd it was, though.
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post #12686 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:34 PM
 
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lol it was a movie about some broad being able to increasingly access more of her brain and being able to make others levitate with her mind. It was a stupid movie - there's no arguing that. It was still entertaining because of how absurd it was, though.
Because of that movie, I have to double teach my university students that NO!, Humans use more than 10% of their brain.

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post #12687 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:47 PM
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Because of that movie, I have to double teach my university students that NO!, Humans use more than 10% of their brain.
I remember now that it was the subject of a More or Less episode too. It's the kind of statistic that keeps popping up over and over in popular culture.
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Is it true that humans use just 10% of their brains? It's the premise of the new film Lucy, in which the brain capacity of Scarlett Johansson's character increases to dangerous levels. Tim Harford uses considerably more than 10% of his brain to separate the neuro-science facts from the fiction with Professor Sophie Scott.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0257hwf
(It's also on iTunes if that link doesn't work outside of the UK)

More or Less is great because they often get to the bottom of where it originally came from . In this case, it comes from a self-help book from nearly 100 years ago - so you can't blame a 2014 movie. Sorry.

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post #12688 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 02:54 PM
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OK...gotta ask...where? I've popped in a couple of Sony discs and can't find any test patterns.

Thank you!
Type 7669 on your remote at the disc's main menu
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post #12689 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 03:01 PM
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Type 7669 on your remote at the disc's main menu
Many thanks!!!

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post #12690 of 18918 Old 01-21-2017, 03:10 PM
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@umenon ,

You are in the unique position to be able to watch both the DV and HDR10 version of the same show/movie. I wish I could do the same!

Can you please explain what exactly it is about the DV picture that makes it unequivocally superior to the HDR10 picture from the Roku premier plus? Please try to be very specific.

Also are you aware of the recent firmware updates for the Roku that allows you to change from 4:2:2 to 4:2:0 via a secret menu (many people were experiencing banding issues using 4:2:2 that apparently is fixed by changing to 4:2:0)?
Here is why I find DV better than HDR10 ... while both formats are extending the dynamic range, HDR10 (at least in my setup) is shifting it to the right on the histogram (sorry, this is photographer lingo) ... as a result highlights tend to be overblown but dark areas are crushed. The same material on DV looks more balanced. Now, considering that HDR10 is software based, they may be able to fix it with an update.

Did not know about the secret menu on the Roku. I have mine set up to output 4K@60 all the time. Not sure if the tweak will benefit me. Will it?
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