Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 435 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13021 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I fully agree with his conclusions. Too many HDR movies are simply brightened to take advantage of the brighter TVs, but that's not what HDR is supposed to be about. HDR is supposed to be an expansion on the SDR image. If an SDR frame has no pixels that go above 50 nits, than neither should the HDR grade. You shouldn't just grade it brighter because you can. You should reserve those brighter abilities for the elements on screen that actually extend above what you see in the SDR image (sun, lamps, specular highlights, fires, stuff like that typically). That way, not only are you making appropriate use of the technology, but you're also resulting in a much more dynamic looking image, because of the ratio between the mean brightness and the max brightness.
Which is exactly what HDR games are doing they make proper use of the HDR tech, check out Resident Evil 7 if you can you'll love it no movie can come remotely close to it.
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post #13022 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 03:37 AM
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Hdr on res 7 was awful.

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post #13023 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 04:57 AM
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I've been hearing about star trek beyond being dark, I've seen it on 3 TVs, OLED b6 e6 and Vizio p in dolby vision and thought it was absolutely fantastic, and I usually love to complain about HDR being dark.

Are we seeing a hdr10 vs DV difference here? I wonder if anyone else can dig any deeper

Also watched girl on train Dolby vision presentation last night. Looked fantastic with its bleak wintery color palette. Also the "train" itself was great use of HDR on metallic specular highlights.
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post #13024 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Does it look better than SDR? Probably not, but it look different.

For me with HDR in general this is about it. It does not look better, it just look different. SDR for sure won't disappear. For exemple, I don't see Tarantino using it!
Not being funny but either there's something up with those particular titles, or you need to book an appointment at your local optician

For me with HDR it's as big an upgrade as the change from Black and White to Colour.

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post #13025 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 05:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Not being funny but either there's something up with those particular titles, or you need to book an appointment at your local optician

For me with HDR it's as big an upgrade as the change from Black and White to Colour.
No for me it's like going from Black and White photography to color photography. Or it's like HFR vs 24hz. It's different, but is it better, does it look better. Most videophile would say no. Since when in Cinema does getting closer to reality mean it look better ? People use to cry to death because 48hz look TOO REAL. FOr HDR now, we should accept that ?

They are different but in no way can you say it look better. HDR look closer to reality yes, does it make it better ? Picasso painting don't look like reality and they are quite nice. Cinema is Art, and like any art, it's not because it look truer that it mean it's better.

I just watched the last episode of The Crown on Netflix, not only is this the best 4K PQ available on Netflix, but look better than all the HDR movies UHD or not I saw. It's just SDR however.

Bright highlight and colorful environment can look cool, but look better ? Nah, not alway. Sin City is one of the best looking movie, and don't need HDR to shine.

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post #13026 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
Post update B6 is at 28 ms in HDR... If samsung numbers are lower, they are close enough that no human being can tell the difference.



http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6


Samsung lcds are at ~21ms. For reference 1 frame is 16ms so 1.5 frames is very good, 2 is ok and anything more is bad for anything but casual play. I haven't really kept up with what each update has done, I only knew the initial numbers from rtings and other sites.

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post #13027 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I've been hearing about star trek beyond being dark, I've seen it on 3 TVs, OLED b6 e6 and Vizio p in dolby vision and thought it was absolutely fantastic, and I usually love to complain about HDR being dark.

Are we seeing a hdr10 vs DV difference here? I wonder if anyone else can dig any deeper


Thats a good question and I'll pass it along. Maybe he can compare.

Btw, he uploaded a new version of Meridian a couple days ago and he had some interesting things to say about the Netflix version. Apparently it's 709 color. He says netflix's hdr version with hdr10 and DV is under saturated compared to the sdr versions, but his new version restores saturation and imo looks better with more pop and better color and has less grain than netflix. I think the grain issue on Netflix is a combination of super low bitrate and inferior compression codes used. He had interesting things to say about that also.
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post #13028 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Was Star trek: Beyond too dark??



This was a hot topic a couple months ago. STB was generally seen as a disappointment coming g off the very popular star trek into darkness (pq wise).


The HDR Channel used his equipment to test ST Beyond for its nit levels and was able to show that most of the movie was graded darker than usual for a 4k blu ray. A good watch here, and he plans to do more HDR movie analyzing videos.





https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=5U4-3pRpRg4
Great stuff. Hoping he'll do more of these with even more technical analysis!
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post #13029 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I've been hearing about star trek beyond being dark, I've seen it on 3 TVs, OLED b6 e6 and Vizio p in dolby vision and thought it was absolutely fantastic, and I usually love to complain about HDR being dark.

Are we seeing a hdr10 vs DV difference here? I wonder if anyone else can dig any deeper

Also watched girl on train Dolby vision presentation last night. Looked fantastic with its bleak wintery color palette. Also the "train" itself was great use of HDR on metallic specular highlights.
I too never thought it (Star Trek Beyond) was too dark although I did read a lot of complaints about it being too dark.

What did you think about the movie (The Girl on the Train) itself? It's not getting a lot of good reviews and I'm thinking of purchasing with a FandangoNow discount being offered today only but not sure?

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post #13030 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 08:41 AM
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I'm not entirely sure if this thread is about 4k titles any more or 4k TVs...


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post #13031 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I too never thought it (Star Trek Beyond) was too dark although I did read a lot of complaints about it being too dark.

What did you think about the movie (The Girl on the Train) itself? It's not getting a lot of good reviews and I'm thinking of purchasing with a FandangoNow discount being offered today only but not sure?
Here's a positive review from my favourite critic (it was his movie of the week that week):

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post #13032 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 09:46 AM
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What is the name of Netflix HDR demo mentioned here before?
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post #13033 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I've been hearing about star trek beyond being dark, I've seen it on 3 TVs, OLED b6 e6 and Vizio p in dolby vision and thought it was absolutely fantastic, and I usually love to complain about HDR being dark.

Are we seeing a hdr10 vs DV difference here? I wonder if anyone else can dig any deeper


Thats a good question and I'll pass it along. Maybe he can compare.

Btw, he uploaded a new version of Meridian a couple days ago and he had some interesting things to say about the Netflix version. Apparently it's 709 color. He says netflix's hdr version with hdr10 and DV is under saturated compared to the sdr versions, but his new version restores saturation and imo looks better with more pop and better color and has less grain than netflix. I think the grain issue on Netflix is a combination of super low bitrate and inferior compression codes used. He had interesting things to say about that also.
Where did he upload the new version to?
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post #13034 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 10:07 AM
 
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What is the name of Netflix HDR demo mentioned here before?
Spark maybe?
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post #13035 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 10:39 AM
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Where did he upload the new version to?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCve...FNipzeAGBI5t9g
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post #13036 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I too never thought it (Star Trek Beyond) was too dark although I did read a lot of complaints about it being too dark.

What did you think about the movie (The Girl on the Train) itself? It's not getting a lot of good reviews and I'm thinking of purchasing with a FandangoNow discount being offered today only but not sure?
What's the discount?
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post #13037 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 01:17 PM
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What's the discount?
51% off

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post #13038 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 01:50 PM
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Great stuff. Hoping he'll do more of these with even more technical analysis!
Thanks guys for linking to my channel! I will try to make more of these.

Please visit the YouTube HDR (Chromecast Ultra) Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheHDRChannel
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post #13039 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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4k/hdr television is about to get a huge boost with moving forward. A vote by the FCC that is expected to pass with ATSC 3.0 in the usa is taking place February 23rd.


http://advanced-television.com/2017/...r-by-year-end/
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post #13040 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post
Hdr on res 7 was awful.
Well on my setup it's outstanding heaps better than any movies.
BTW I am talking about the PC version, PS4 isn't that good.

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Well on my setup it's outstanding heaps better than any movies.
BTW I am talking about the PC version, PS4 isn't that good.
RE7 in HDR was great on PC... except for the banding. (maybe it's rendering at 8 bits instead of 10?)

This game proves that even on very low APL scenes. you get a ton of benefit from the extra color volume HDR brings.

Being able to toggle on and off was great. some colors look very washed out on SDR.
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
RE7 in HDR was great on PC... except for the banding. (maybe it's rendering at 8 bits instead of 10?)

This game proves that even on very low APL scenes. you get a ton of benefit from the extra color volume HDR brings.

Being able to toggle on and off was great. some colors look very washed out on SDR.
What does this mean: "extra color volume HDR brings"?
Do you mean WCG?

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post #13043 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
RE7 in HDR was great on PC... except for the banding. (maybe it's rendering at 8 bits instead of 10?)

This game proves that even on very low APL scenes. you get a ton of benefit from the extra color volume HDR brings.

Being able to toggle on and off was great. some colors look very washed out on SDR.
I've seen no banding at all on my JVC X7500. (note Nvidia released fixes for this game in the latest geforce drivers).

I agree I really enjoyed it in HDR, there is a huge difference compared to SDR mode.

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post #13044 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
What does this mean: "extra color volume HDR brings"?
Do you mean WCG?

Mike
Pretty sure he meant WCG.

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post #13045 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 05:52 PM
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What does this mean: "extra color volume HDR brings"?
Do you mean WCG?

Mike

No. My television doesn't even have WCG, just the Rec.709 gamut.

What I mean is, colors look very different at different nits. in SDR a lot of the colors look very washed out, but with HDR. the colors have more... volume.
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No. My television doesn't even have WCG, just the Rec.709 gamut.

What I mean is, colors look very different at different nits. in SDR a lot of the colors look very washed out, but with HDR. the colors have more... volume.
mmm I am calling placebo there or optical illusion.
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post #13047 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
What does this mean: "extra color volume HDR brings"?
Do you mean WCG?

Mike

No. My television doesn't even have WCG, just the Rec.709 gamut.

What I mean is, colors look very different at different nits. in SDR a lot of the colors look very washed out, but with HDR. the colors have more... volume.
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mmm I am calling placebo there or optical illusion.
Nope, definitely not either of those. Color volume is the whole point of the higher dynamic range. It's the first thing I noticed on my TV after playing the first HDR video on it (the Samsung "chasing the lights" demo).

I saw colors I had never seen on an SDR video. It's what makes HDR feel as if you're "outside" on outdoor scenes, instead of looking at "a picture of outside".

in RE7 you can toggle between SDR and HDR modes so you can test how different the colors look. In my case, even within the same color space.

The most impressive thing for me on RE7. Is that even though it's a pretty dark game, I saw a very significant difference.
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post #13049 of 18841 Old 02-05-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
Nope, definitely not either of those. Color volume is the whole point of the higher dynamic range. It's the first thing I noticed on my TV after playing the first HDR video on it (the Samsung "chasing the lights" demo).

I saw colors I had never seen on an SDR video. It's what makes HDR feel as if you're "outside" on outdoor scenes, instead of looking at "a picture of outside".

in RE7 you can toggle between SDR and HDR modes so you can test how different the colors look. In my case, even within the same color space.

The most impressive thing for me on RE7. Is that even though it's a pretty dark game, I saw a very significant difference.
It's placebo mate, the difference you are seeing might be the difference between Rec 709 and SRGB as when you flick on HDR it also forces SRGB so while not quite Rec2020 it's wider than 709

I switched between SDR and HDR a million times and there is no difference when using the same color space as there shouldn't be but if that's what you sense it great. I know what you mean but trust me there is no difference it's placebo it's just the dynamic range playing tricks on you. Colors pop a lot more when the contrast/dynamic range is increased. Also if your TV can't do WCG how come it does HDR it's usually the other way around with older TV.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Colors pop a lot more when the contrast/dynamic range is increased.
Exactly, this is my point.

Brighter colors look different. People seem to put too much stock on WCG and probably don't realize that Rec.709 mastered to 100 nits doesn't get very bright. WCG helps with "man made" colors like neon a lot. But colors usually found on nature can be reproduced very well by just the Rec.709 gamut.

In fact, the max brightness a blue pure blue can be in Rec.709 is only 7 nits (that's seven, not a typo)
So of course a blue higher than SDR is going to look very different. Same goes for every other color, but blue is the dimmest.

Also, I forgot to add. Rec.709 and sRGB have exactly the same color gamut. (the only difference is the limited vs full range, and that sRGB is 80 nits vs Rec.709 100 nits)
reallynotnick and Masterbrew2 like this.

Last edited by Kamus; 02-05-2017 at 07:44 PM.
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Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

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