Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 597 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17881 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
For those of you not watching it, the last tycoon is absolutely beautiful in Hdr. Episode 6 is reference all the way through, the Christmas lights and bright highlights are just superb.
I have to agree. It looks pretty damn good in HDR, especially the daytime shots and like you said the episode at Xmas time with all the decorations and lights. Indoor scenes don't look as good on my 930E though.
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post #17882 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by korsjs View Post
how do you like it? I am two and a half episodes in. even though picture quality is excellent like you said, i struggle with getting into movies that take place in the 60s or earlier but i am a huge kelsey grammer fan. does it pick up after episode three?


I love period movies and shows so I'm all over it. I really like the story and characters, there's a pretty big twist at the end of episode 6 also.


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post #17883 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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My brother said the 3D was fantastic as well. My screening was in 2D so I can't comment on that, but the visuals are good regardless.

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I also heard that the 3D version of King Arthur was very good and I received it today in the mail. I plan to watch it this weekend. I did watch the 4K UHD blu-ray
edition on Tuesday night. Being a fan of Guy Ritchie, I really enjoyed the film for the most part. And yes, there were definitely a few scenes that were not very good. It was a popcorn movie and the theater audiences gave it high marks.
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post #17884 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post
I also heard that the 3D version of King Arthur was very good and I received it today in the mail. I plan to watch it this weekend. I did watch the 4K UHD blu-ray
edition on Tuesday night. Being a fan of Guy Ritchie, I really enjoyed the film for the most part. And yes, there were definitely a few scenes that were not very good. It was a popcorn movie and the theater audiences gave it high marks.
Personally, for me it rated the lowest of all the movies I've seen in theater all year, but it did have good visuals and action.

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post #17885 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
I love period movies and shows so I'm all over it. I really like the story and characters, there's a pretty big twist at the end of episode 6 also.


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thanks, i am going to stick with it.
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post #17886 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 03:18 PM
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New Netflix HDR Movie:

Naked
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post #17887 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
New Netflix HDR Movie:

Naked


What a name...is it any good? How's it look?

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post #17888 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
What a name...is it any good? How's it look?
I'm just a few minutes in but it looks incredibly sharp wow

edit: half way through, sooo many details, almost like a uhdbd. Very impressed by the compression of this one. Only 16 000kbps but damnn!!

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post #17889 of 18067 Old 08-11-2017, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Calling Tom Roper!!




As most of you probably don't know, Tom Roper, our very own member who has provided some excellent demos for us, actually did an HDR grading of "Into the Cave of Wonders" for the filmmaker and creater of that movie. There was some liscensing and thievery (how it ended up on amazon was thievery). Long story short, Tom ended up doing the HDR grade for it and the director (Emanuel), ended up selling the demo to Sony to use on their tvs. The demo as far as I know wasn't playing for very long at Best Buy cause they like to switch up demos. But for anyone who seen the demo just know that the HDR grade was done by our very own Tom Roper. ( I had some sneak peaks of this HDR demo last year when he was working on it and it was absolutely awesome).

This isn't an actual HDR video, but its a video by another AVS member that said this HDR demo is what got him to upgrade his tv. He does show his tv playing the HDR demo, I thought it was pretty cool and wanted to share.


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post #17890 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
New Netflix HDR Movie:

Naked
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
...half way through, sooo many details...

I bet!



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post #17891 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
This isn't an actual HDR video, but its a video by another AVS member that said this HDR demo is what got him to upgrade his tv. He does show his tv playing the HDR demo, I thought it was pretty cool and wanted to share.
That is fantastic! I'm not sure he's correct when he said it was uncompressed though? As in not compressed using HEVC etc My only question is that how come he's got his hands on it, but we can't

EDIT: A-ha:


EDIT: in fact, awesome. That guy has got lots of HDR content including this which I hadn't seen before

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post #17892 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
For those of you not watching it, The Last Tycoon is absolutely beautiful in Hdr. Episode 6 is reference all the way through, the Christmas lights and bright highlights are just superb.

...
I just watched the first episode last night and thought the video quality was absolutely stunning. Can't wait to watch the rest.
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post #17893 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
For those of you not watching it, the last tycoon is absolutely beautiful in Hdr. Episode 6 is reference all the way through, the Christmas lights and bright highlights are just superb.


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I fully agree!! The HDR has been perfect! This really shows off what HDR can do!!

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post #17894 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 02:22 PM
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I take it you haven't been to a sporting event before?

Inside sports have the main court or ring literally underneath bright lamps and outside sports are outside in the sun. Of course it's going to look alot brighter than SDR... There's no way sports are at 100 nit lol
I don't see how that matters. HDR isn't about matching the lighting conditions of real life, it's about providing a greater, more realistic range between the mid tones and the highlights, as well as more color and detail that usually gets clipped away in SDR.
Lol what.

You say on one hand hdr is about giving a more realistic range and then saying it's not supposed to match real life? Lol.

If you think real life only has "highlight details" above 100 nit you've been in tech spec la la Land for too long.
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post #17895 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 02:52 PM
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Just had my first freeze up with a rental UHD disc of John wick 2 at about the 46 min mark. Played with remote ff rw and play button and then restarting movie. Still froze but I got past the mark maybe missed 10 seconds of movie. However I think its the disc not the unit (Sony X800)? Had no problem til now. Still have to finish watching.
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post #17896 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 03:07 PM
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Does anyone know if the special Best Buy package for Guardian of the Galaxy 2 4K version below, includes a Digital Copy of the 3D version. I see that Digital Copy is included for the 4K but now sure if they include one for the 3D as well.

Best Buy- Pre-order - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 [SteelBook] [Digital Copy] [3D] [4K Ultra HD Blu-ray/Blu-ray] [Only [4K Ultra HD Blu-ray/Blu-ray/Blu-ray 3D] [2017]
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post #17897 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 03:07 PM
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Aside from the hiccup the movie looks great
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post #17898 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 03:12 PM
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Lol what.

You say on one hand hdr is about giving a more realistic range and then saying it's not supposed to match real life? Lol.

If you think real life only has "highlight details" above 100 nit you've been in tech spec la la Land for too long.
What the human eye see's, is what Dolby said they were going for.

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post #17899 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 03:45 PM
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Does anyone know if the special Best Buy package for Guardian of the Galaxy 2 4K version below, includes a Digital Copy of the 3D version. I see that Digital Copy is included for the 4K but now sure if they include one for the 3D as well.

Best Buy- Pre-order - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 [SteelBook] [Digital Copy] [3D] [4K Ultra HD Blu-ray/Blu-ray] [Only [4K Ultra HD Blu-ray/Blu-ray/Blu-ray 3D] [2017]
Considering almost all 3D BD's don't come with a 3D code, I'm saying the answer will be "nope"
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post #17900 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 04:18 PM
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Lol what.

You say on one hand hdr is about giving a more realistic range and then saying it's not supposed to match real life? Lol.

If you think real life only has "highlight details" above 100 nit you've been in tech spec la la Land for too long.
HDR nits aren't supposed to be used to simulate real life brightness, they're about the relative brightness levels between the main content and the highlights. Your eyes will always adjust to a brighter image, so displaying the main content at 400 nits for example just gives you a heck of a lot less available relative dynamic range in the end.

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post #17901 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 05:05 PM
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HDR nits aren't supposed to be used to simulate real life brightness, they're about the relative brightness levels between the main content and the highlights. Your eyes will always adjust to a brighter image, so displaying the main content at 400 nits for example just gives you a heck of a lot less available relative dynamic range in the end.

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It will be about simulating real life once tvs get bright enough.

The dumb thing is that HDR movies are stuck in between some compromise of dark room calibrations and the goal of producing a more realistic picture. They are kind of odds with each other since reality is not 100 nits APL.
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post #17902 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 05:14 PM
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It will be about simulating real life once tvs get bright enough.

The dumb thing is that HDR movies are stuck in between some compromise of dark room calibrations and the goal of producing a more realistic picture. They are kind of odds with each other since reality is not 100 nits APL.
Simulating real life brightness is pointless. Your eyes adjust to any brightness, and doing that massively limits what you can do with the highlights, even on a 10,000 nit screen. For example, if you keep the main subject around 50 nits, a 10,000 nit screen allows for highlights 200x as bright as the main subject. If you instead make that main subject 400 nits, then you're limiting highlights to being a maximum of 25x as bright as the main subject. Makes a massive difference in the apparent picture, as I said because your eyes will adjust to the brighter image.

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post #17903 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Simulating real life brightness is pointless. Your eyes adjust to any brightness, and doing that massively limits what you can do with the highlights, even on a 10,000 nit screen. For example, if you keep the main subject around 50 nits, a 10,000 nit screen allows for highlights 200x as bright as the main subject. If you instead make that main subject 400 nits, then you're limiting highlights to being a maximum of 25x as bright as the main subject. Makes a massive difference in the apparent picture, as I said because your eyes will adjust to the brighter image.

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My point is no matter what nothing will ever look life like at 100 nits APL. The perceived difference between the sun, headlights or a reflection getting 20x or 3x brighter compared to the subject doesn't fool me for some reason. What you're explaining may be correct in theory but I don't think I really experience the intended effect that much.

At the moment HDR is not for realism, but at the same time they want to emphasize it so they keep the APL low and the highlights high to exaggerate the range. And then they tell you you have to watch it only in the dark to further emphasize the effect. As a byproduct of that it looks less realistic to me sometimes, especially with some darker UHD movies. So as picture format I look at it in some weird middle ground between realism and some bright flashes of frosting on top of a dark room SDR cake at the moment.

Personally I don't really like this brightness curve HDR movies are created with so I raise the APL with a combination of settings from my player. I have no issues watching 300, 400, 500 APL in the dark. Looks more realistic to me which is what I prefer, even if the highlight is only 3x brighter than the subject.

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post #17904 of 18067 Old 08-12-2017, 07:05 PM
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My point is no matter what nothing will ever look life like at 100 nits APL. The perceived difference between the sun, headlights or a reflection getting 20x or 3x brighter compared to the subject doesn't fool me for some reason. What you're explaining may be correct in theory but I don't think I really experience the intended effect that much.

At the moment HDR is not for realism, but at the same time they want to emphasize it so they keep the APL low and the highlights high to exaggerate the range. And then they tell you you have to watch it only in the dark to further emphasize the effect. As a byproduct of that it looks less realistic to me sometimes, especially with some darker UHD movies. So as picture format I look at it in some weird middle ground between realism and some bright flashes of frosting on top of a dark room SDR cake at the moment.

Personally I don't really like this brightness curve HDR movies are created with so I raise the APL with a combination of settings from my player. I have no issues watching 300, 400, 500 APL in the dark. Looks more realistic to me which is what I prefer, even if the highlight is only 3x brighter than the subject.
Perhaps your room has too much light in it, so you don't get the full effect because your eyes don't adjust the way they should.

I didn't say there was any problem viewing a brighter image, as your eyes should adjust in the same way they would for a darker image, it's just that the image will be much less dynamic, and as such, should appear less realistic because of it.

As long as your eyes adjust, as they should in any dark enough environment, the main subject should look mostly the same whether that main subject is being displayed at 50, 100, 200, 400 nits etc. It's just that the highlights will appear dimmer in relation to the main subject the brighter you go, and that will also affect color reproduction in those highlights as well (as discussed earlier).

The actual absolute number of nits is more important for daytime / lit room viewing, but in most cases SDR looks fine at 100nits in a lit room, so as long as the main subject is in that range, HDR should still look great there as well. Most recommend watching HDR in a dark room though for the full effect.

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post #17905 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 09:56 AM
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That is fantastic! I'm not sure he's correct when he said it was uncompressed though? As in not compressed using HEVC etc My only question is that how come he's got his hands on it, but we can't

EDIT: A-ha:


EDIT: in fact, awesome. That guy has got lots of HDR content including this which I hadn't seen before
We need to figure out how these people are getting these HDR files.
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post #17906 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 11:00 AM
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Most recommend watching HDR in a dark room though for the full effect.
Yes. And the reason is not one of preference but because PQ is absolute, it's the viewing light level it's mastered for. We must refer to the surround luminance level for which it is mastered, which is normally 5 nits (ie very dark). And then (try to) replicate that in our rooms. (Ref: SpectraCal White Paper link at the HDTVtest link.)

With HLG content, this isn't a problem and you can view at whatever surround light level you like.

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post #17907 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 02:47 PM
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There should not even be this much of a debate.

The entire purpose of hdr is increased contrast.

The entire purpose of increased contrast is increased depth and realism.

So to suggest hdr isn't about realism is flat out wrong.
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post #17908 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Yes. And the reason is not one of preference but because PQ is absolute, it's the viewing light level it's mastered for. We must refer to the surround luminance level for which it is mastered, which is normally 5 nits (ie very dark). And then (try to) replicate that in our rooms. (Ref: SpectraCal White Paper link at the HDTVtest link.)

With HLG content, this isn't a problem and you can view at whatever surround light level you like.
The thing is though, no matter what something is mastered for, if you view it with no surrounding light, your eyes will adjust and it will look correct. If you have too much ambient light, your eyes adjust to that, not to the image itself. At 5 nits surrounding light, or lower, it should look correct. Above that and it won't.

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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
There should not even be this much of a debate.

The entire purpose of hdr is increased contrast.

The entire purpose of increased contrast is increased depth and realism.

So to suggest hdr isn't about realism is flat out wrong.
The problem here is there are two different versions of "realism" we're talking about. You can simulate the realism of the amount of light we actually see when we're there in person, but doing that for bright content significantly reduces the amount of contrast you can get in the highlights, so while you increase realism in average light level, you reduce realism in the contrast of the image. Since our eyes can adjust to just about any light level above a certain amount when viewed in the proper conditions (our eyes work like a camera aperture which opens or closes appropriately to control the amount of light exposed), there's no real benefit to making the average light level hundreds of nits, because your eyes will adjust to make the main subject look the same as if it were mastered for an average light level of 100 nits, and so all you're effectively doing is reducing the relative contrast of the highlights.

Personally, when I grade for HDR, I start by clipping it at 100 nits, making sure the main detail looks as good as it can in those first 100 nits, and then I simply unclip everything above that, and make sure everything that was previously clipped looks correct as well (in many cases, not much extra work is needed there). I have always felt that HDR needs to feel like an uncapping of what was previously available in SDR. As long as the grade is done well, and there's a good source being used, you'll have plenty of new information that gets revealed doing it that way. In my experience, a lot of content didn't have a good enough source, so they either overly brighten the image, or they use a process which effectively steepens the gamma curve a lot, and then adjusts it so that the peaks are a lot brighter, which gives you mostly the same median brightness, but much more crushed shadows and highlights that are contrasty, but in an unnatural way. These grading styles are essentially like a higher bit depth version of the fake HDR modes many TVs have, so I'm not a fan.

Before the mods start going on another deleting rampage, yes we're still specifically talking about the clip discussing technicolor preparing for future HDR broadcasts of sporting events. I was worried that brighter method may be what technicolor may be doing rather than investing in getting the cameras set up to provide more optimal source for getting a beautiful HDR image straight away without needing to manipulate it much at all. Of course I'm not there to see it with my own eyes so it's hard to say 100%, but just in case they are doing it that way, I was just explaining that it's pretty much wasting a massive amount of the potential HDR has.
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post #17909 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
The thing is though, no matter what something is mastered for, if you view it with no surrounding light, your eyes will adjust and it will look correct. If you have too much ambient light, your eyes adjust to that, not to the image itself. At 5 nits surrounding light, or lower, it should look correct. Above that and it won't.
I agree completely. FWIW I thought you'd explained the rationale for not increasing the APL perfectly well before, but the bit I haven't quoted was an even clearer explanation still
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post #17910 of 18067 Old 08-13-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Calling Tom Roper!!

As most of you probably don't know, Tom Roper, our very own member who has provided some excellent demos for us, actually did an HDR grading of "Into the Cave of Wonders" for the filmmaker and creater of that movie. There was some liscensing and thievery (how it ended up on amazon was thievery). Long story short, Tom ended up doing the HDR grade for it and the director (Emanuel), ended up selling the demo to Sony to use on their tvs. The demo as far as I know wasn't playing for very long at Best Buy cause they like to switch up demos. But for anyone who seen the demo just know that the HDR grade was done by our very own Tom Roper. ( I had some sneak peaks of this HDR demo last year when he was working on it and it was absolutely awesome).

This isn't an actual HDR video, but its a video by another AVS member that said this HDR demo is what got him to upgrade his tv. He does show his tv playing the HDR demo, I thought it was pretty cool and wanted to share.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlckbjkIw0g&t=8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
That is fantastic! I'm not sure he's correct when he said it was uncompressed though? As in not compressed using HEVC etc My only question is that how come he's got his hands on it, but we can't

EDIT: A-ha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWykp3QKJXg

EDIT: in fact, awesome. That guy has got lots of HDR content including this which I hadn't seen before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmZybH9ALkQ
Where can one actually acquire an actual HDR version of this content? I've watched several different versions on YouTube, none of which seem to he HDR - interstingly, the one that Sony uses as "HDR 4K" is the worst - washed out contrast, whereas the short less-than-a-minute video has much better contrast as does a much longer (8+ min. version) seem to show superior contrast, but none of the seem to be HDR.

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