Samsung QLED TVs First to Offer "CalMAN Ready" HDR Autocalibration - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 29Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Samsung QLED TVs First to Offer "CalMAN Ready" HDR Autocalibration

Today, Samsung and CalMAN maker Portrait Displays jointly announced the introduction of CalMAN Ready functionality for 2017 Samsung QLED TVs. I've been waiting for this, anxiously, since I saw it working in beta. Psyched it's officially announced.

Click the link to read more: Samsung QLED TVs World’s First Offering “CalMAN Ready” HDR Autocalibration
10k, DanBa and mrtickleuk like this.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)

Last edited by imagic; 05-18-2017 at 08:13 AM.
imagic is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 07:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
CaptinCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kennedale, Tx
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
To use CalMAN with AutoCal software on a QLED TV, users simply need to obtain the AutoCal Calibration Kit and install the software onto their computer. Once downloaded, users can connect their computer to their QLED TV to begin the autocalibration process. The QLED TV will then share its menu settings with the software so that it can automatically adjust the TV’s picture quality to the user’s preferences.
LOL, So basically this really adds nothing for the "Average" TV user.

Sony 55W900A
Sony UBP x800
Yamaha Aventage A1030
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RB-51 II (Front Preference)
SVS PB-2000
CaptinCrunch is offline  
post #3 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
LOL, So basically this really adds nothing for the "Average" TV user.
Actually it makes the calibration process faster and more accurate than what a pro calibrator could do on their own using TV menus. Therefore, you get a better calibration and in less time. So the benefits of the average user is that when they hire a calibrator, the end product is superior. It also makes it more likely that if you get your calibration from Best Buy, it won't get botched because somebody doesn't know what they're doing. It pretty much takes human inexperience and error out of the equation.
CaptinCrunch and vaktmestern like this.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)
imagic is online now  
 
post #4 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 08:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b0rnarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked: 584
Does the software take into account the various picture modes when calibrating? As I know, no amount of calibration on the Movie mode can give me the deeper blacks, better depth to the image, higher brightness/nits levels for HDR content etc. compared to the CAL Day/Night modes.

Best,
Main Living Room: Samsung 65 KS9800 + Audio: Onkyo HT-S6300 7.1 + Sony UBP-X800 + PS4
Other Living Room: Panasonic Plasma 55 + Onkyo Home Theater System 5.1 + PS3
Currently For SALE : UHD Media & Codes
b0rnarian is offline  
post #5 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 08:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
CaptinCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kennedale, Tx
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Oh I understand all that, I actually have an old Spectral Cal C3 meter, and the (2013) CalMAN 5 software. Now it's great if your buying from reputable place that can do a quick calibration prior to delivery (but it's still an extra cost). Adding something to a TV that requires the "average" customer to make additional purchases to receive the benefit of, isn't IMO a benefit.

What Samsung could of done was add a CalMAN 5 Calibrated setting to their TV's, much like Panasonic's THX calibrated settings on their Plasmas and New Reference OLED's.

Sony 55W900A
Sony UBP x800
Yamaha Aventage A1030
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RB-51 II (Front Preference)
SVS PB-2000
CaptinCrunch is offline  
post #6 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Does the software take into account the various picture modes when calibrating? As I know, no amount of calibration on the Movie mode can give me the deeper blacks, better depth to the image, higher brightness/nits levels for HDR content etc. compared to the CAL Day/Night modes.
Yes, or rather you can help it in that regard. Indeed, this functionality can also be used to manually dial stuff in but with the benefit of not having the picture-distorting effects of the menus.

Of course it cannot change the physical characteristics of a television, however it can help people get maximum performance out of the display.
CaptinCrunch likes this.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)
imagic is online now  
post #7 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
Oh I understand all that, I actually have an old Spectral Cal C3 meter, and the (2013) CalMAN 5 software. Now it's great if your buying from reputable place that can do a quick calibration prior to delivery (but it's still an extra cost). Adding something to a TV that requires the "average" customer to make additional purchases to receive the benefit of, isn't IMO a benefit.

What Samsung could of done was add a CalMAN 5 Calibrated setting to their TV's, much like Panasonic's THX calibrated settings on their Plasmas and New Reference OLED's.
I hope this isn't wishful thinking, but basically what I see happening is some people becoming calibration hobbyists. By taking away such a huge pain point from performing calibrations, modest kit should be enough to yield significant improvements and you'll have people willing to calibrate their friends' TVs for a sixpack of beer or something like that. That's my fantasy, anyhow.

Maybe this goes nowhere. Or, maybe because Samsung is behind it, HDR calibration catches on.
mttpalmer, dnoonie and mrtickleuk like this.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)
imagic is online now  
post #8 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Feel there are more than a few people that would take exception to the statement that this autocal will be more accurate than a pro. Is there some factual numbers to back that up?
I could think of more than a few instances where the autocal would have a definitive negative impact that would still measure accurate.
Just for instance take LG Oled CMS. If used autocalibration, the TV would adjust CMS to get measured more accurate color reproduction, but at the same time add inherent artifacts to the picture.
A pro calibrator will see this and know not to do it, a novice that goes off of the marketing will never look for it.
Not saying I think the autocalibration is a bad thing, but feel article could be written a little more evenly to point out there are still definite benefits to having a human factor.
JNayAV is offline  
post #9 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
CaptinCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kennedale, Tx
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I hope this isn't wishful thinking, but basically what I see happening is some people becoming calibration hobbyists. By taking away such a huge pain point from performing calibrations, modest kit should be enough to yield significant improvements and you'll have people willing to calibrate their friends' TVs for a sixpack of beer or something like that. That's my fantasy, anyhow.

Maybe this goes nowhere. Or, maybe because Samsung is behind it, HDR calibration catches on.
My price is a 12 pack, so I'm a little more expensive...

Sony 55W900A
Sony UBP x800
Yamaha Aventage A1030
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RB-51 II (Front Preference)
SVS PB-2000
CaptinCrunch is offline  
post #10 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b0rnarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I hope this isn't wishful thinking, but basically what I see happening is some people becoming calibration hobbyists. By taking away such a huge pain point from performing calibrations, modest kit should be enough to yield significant improvements and you'll have people willing to calibrate their friends' TVs for a sixpack of beer or something like that. That's my fantasy, anyhow.

Maybe this goes nowhere. Or, maybe because Samsung is behind it, HDR calibration catches on.
To do that, Samsung has to spread this feature across more than just their 2017 line-up.

Best,
Main Living Room: Samsung 65 KS9800 + Audio: Onkyo HT-S6300 7.1 + Sony UBP-X800 + PS4
Other Living Room: Panasonic Plasma 55 + Onkyo Home Theater System 5.1 + PS3
Currently For SALE : UHD Media & Codes
b0rnarian is offline  
post #11 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Nothing is understood from the article :

1. Do you need to buy software or hardware for your TV or get it with Q9 ???

2. How Much Does Hardware And Software Cost?

3. What hardware and software do you need? exact information ? Model?

4. Video demo for calibrating in Q9

5. Is it also suitable for 2018 models with HDMI 2.1 ? REC 2020 ? 12BIT ? 14 BIT ? HDR ? HDR WITH 2000/3000NITS ?

6. Is it really a quality and professional calibration that replaces Calibrate men ?
john barlow and b0rnarian like this.
popyang45 is offline  
post #12 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNayAV View Post
Feel there are more than a few people that would take exception to the statement that this autocal will be more accurate than a pro. Is there some factual numbers to back that up?
I could think of more than a few instances where the autocal would have a definitive negative impact that would still measure accurate.
Just for instance take LG Oled CMS. If used autocalibration, the TV would adjust CMS to get measured more accurate color reproduction, but at the same time add inherent artifacts to the picture.
A pro calibrator will see this and know not to do it, a novice that goes off of the marketing will never look for it.
Not saying I think the autocalibration is a bad thing, but feel article could be written a little more evenly to point out there are still definite benefits to having a human factor.
OK maybe that's going to be misconstrued. But at the end of the day, from what I have seen (and in the presence of Kevin Miller, mind you) the software basically puts calibrators in a Paul Bunyan type situation. But yes, the human eye can see things that the meters cannot. So if you have bad color processing, sure you need somebody to catch it before it screws things up. Of course, we don't have to worry about LG's OLED CMS does at this moment because this feature is not available for that TV.

One of the main advantages here is that the measurements can be performed without menus on the screen, and also 20 point grayscale calibration is quite tedious and fairly interactive. I'm not saying that the professional calibrator can not do a better job manually, and it's quite likely that once the automated process is done, a talented calibrator can improve upon that result. So there are areas of gray here, it's not completely obsoleting the calibrator from the equation, especially not the most talented ones.

Plus, you can break down the automated processes into chunks. You don't have to automate everything. You can just automate things that are best done automatically, and do the rest manually.

Article updated to make it clear that this does not obsolete what professional calibrators do.
CaptinCrunch and JNayAV like this.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)

Last edited by imagic; 05-18-2017 at 10:17 AM.
imagic is online now  
post #13 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
OK maybe that's going to be misconstrued. But at the end of the day, from what I have seen (and in the presence of Kevin Miller, mind you) the software basically puts calibrators in a Paul Bunyan type situation. But yes, the human eye can see things that the meters cannot. So if you have bad color processing, sure you need somebody to catch it before it screws things up. Of course, we don't have to worry about LG's OLED CMS does at this moment because this feature is not available for that TV.

One of the main advantages here is that the measurements can be performed without menus on the screen, and also 20.3 skill calibration is quite tedious and fairly interactive. I'm not saying that the professional calibrator can not do a better job manually, and it's quite likely that once the automated processes done a talented calibrator can improve upon that result. So there are areas of gray here, it's not completely obsoleting the calibrator from the equation, especially not the most talented ones.

Plus, you can break down the automated processes into chunks. You don't have to automate everything. You can just automate things that are best done automatically, and do the rest manually.

Article updated to make it clear that this does not obsolete what professional calibrators do.

Think this exactly what that otherside of it is. For those that do go in depth, either pro calibrators or the dedicated hobbyist, this won't negate what you do but could be seen as an additional tool to speed up your work/make your work more efficient.
imagic and dnoonie like this.
JNayAV is offline  
post #14 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 10:43 AM
Member
 
gkdiamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
OK maybe that's going to be misconstrued. But at the end of the day, from what I have seen (and in the presence of Kevin Miller, mind you) the software basically puts calibrators in a Paul Bunyan type situation. But yes, the human eye can see things that the meters cannot. So if you have bad color processing, sure you need somebody to catch it before it screws things up. Of course, we don't have to worry about LG's OLED CMS does at this moment because this feature is not available for that TV.

One of the main advantages here is that the measurements can be performed without menus on the screen, and also 20 point grayscale calibration is quite tedious and fairly interactive. I'm not saying that the professional calibrator can not do a better job manually, and it's quite likely that once the automated process is done, a talented calibrator can improve upon that result. So there are areas of gray here, it's not completely obsoleting the calibrator from the equation, especially not the most talented ones.

Plus, you can break down the automated processes into chunks. You don't have to automate everything. You can just automate things that are best done automatically, and do the rest manually.

Article updated to make it clear that this does not obsolete what professional calibrators do.
That would be a good upcoming article comparison - A professional [manual] calibration vs. auto cal software.
gkdiamond is offline  
post #15 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
That would be a good upcoming article comparison - A professional [manual] calibration vs. auto cal software.
Yes, I should be able to do exactly that, agreed it would be interesting. Which is better, or if that's a wash, how long does each take to reach some PQ goal.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)
imagic is online now  
post #16 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 11:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,911
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4322 Post(s)
Liked: 2993
Let's hope this become the norm with more manufacturers and not just a fad with Samsung. For newbies wanting to calibrate, this is a great idea.

LG 65E6P FW 05.30.02
LG 65EF9500
wxman is online now  
post #17 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 11:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
CaptinCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kennedale, Tx
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Found this http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/qled-...1701094424.htm

Sony 55W900A
Sony UBP x800
Yamaha Aventage A1030
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RB-51 II (Front Preference)
SVS PB-2000
CaptinCrunch is offline  
post #18 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
poppagene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 1,256
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by popyang45 View Post
Nothing is understood from the article :

1. Do you need to buy software or hardware for your TV or get it with Q9 ???

2. How Much Does Hardware And Software Cost?

3. What hardware and software do you need? exact information ? Model?



1 need to buy

2 You'll need a Calman 5 version capable of autocal
http://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

and an HDR capable meter like the spectracal C6-HDR.
https://store.portrait.com/meters/sp...lorimeter.html

3 Cheapest software/meter bundle I could find was $999 plus

https://store.portrait.com/calman-bu...al-c6-hdr.html

UN48JS8500 UN55HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UN40HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UBD-K8500 UN37C5000
poppagene is online now  
post #19 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 12:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Actually it makes the calibration process faster and more accurate than what a pro calibrator could do on their own using TV menus. Therefore, you get a better calibration and in less time. So the benefits of the average user is that when they hire a calibrator, the end product is superior. It also makes it more likely that if you get your calibration from Best Buy, it won't get botched because somebody doesn't know what they're doing. It pretty much takes human inexperience and error out of the equation.
Hi Mark,

The current AutoCAL of CalMAN's to correct the VCGT (Video Card Gamma Table) of my PC (Grayscale/Gamma of 21-points...with 0.5 dE asking average) it takes 240-245 meter reads to calibrated 20 points (and it's providing at the end about ~1dE Grayscale average).

It's faster to do it manually (if you know what to do...with greater results, since you keep linear corrections from point to point also (so less complex processing from TV's processing). The AutoCAL is only looking what RGB combination can provide less dE to the specific point it's measuring, so its trying different combination of adjusting the controls of the specific point until to reach a low dE (this is why it takes 240 reads to correct 20 points)...and it's moving to next point when it will reach a specific dE number.. it's not possible to provide better results from a pro which will care also to the linearity of the adjustments from point-to-point to have similar kind of correction per each R,G,,B channel. This is why the AutoCal will end with 0.2dE for example but if you run a verification run you will have ~1dE, because it's focucing to point to point correction only, so a specific point correction will interact to nearby point adjustments also which are previously calibrated.

Also running 2-3 AutoCAL's, it will always provide different end results, one AutoCAL will be better from the others.

A Pro calibrator will have reference meters (spectro-colorimeter) and pattern generator, while a consumer user will have to spend $250 for a meter i1Displayh PRO (colorimeter..but it can read up to 1.000-1.300 nits max) and $399 for CalMAN (how patterns are generated for AutoCAL HDR? from TV internally?...or you need an HDR pattern generator)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 05-18-2017 at 01:03 PM.
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #20 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 01:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
1 need to buy

2 You'll need a Calman 5 version capable of autocal
http://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

and an HDR capable meter like the spectracal C6-HDR.
https://store.portrait.com/meters/sp...lorimeter.html

3 Cheapest software/meter bundle I could find was $999 plus

https://store.portrait.com/calman-bu...al-c6-hdr.html
Hi, SpectraCAL C6-HDR can read up to 1.300 nits, so it can't be used to calibrate for HDR the Q9 which has peak output in 10% Window about 1900nits.
poppagene likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #21 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 02:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
poppagene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 1,256
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, SpectraCAL C6-HDR can read up to 1.300 nits, so it can't be used to calibrate for HDR the Q9 which has peak output in 10% Window about 1900nits.
Specs say "luminance accuracy at a range exceeding 1300 cd/m2" , but doesn't say limited to 1300. Just hasn't been tested or certified. I suppose the plain vanilla C6 might also do, although its accuracy hasn't been tested at that level.

However, the main gist of my post was that the minimum initial investment for the casual home user is substantial and my numbers could well be an underestimate.

UN48JS8500 UN55HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UN40HU6950 w/SEK-3500U UBD-K8500 UN37C5000

Last edited by poppagene; 05-18-2017 at 02:07 PM.
poppagene is online now  
post #22 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
Specs say "luminance accuracy at a range exceeding 1300 cd/m2" , but doesn't say limited to 1300. Just hasn't been tested or certified. I suppose the plain vanilla C6 might also do, although its accuracy hasn't been tested at that level.
SpectraCAL C6/C6 HDR is a OEM Branded i1Display PRO meter, all i1Display PRO meters (Retail/OEM/OEM Branded) feature the exact same hardware/firmware, just C6 has different internal meter unlocking code (to make it work with CalMAN only officially....but it can work with HCFR/LightSpace/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS also unofficially, with exact the same drivers, just with different unlocking code inside).

C6 vs. C6 HDR are exact the same meters from hardware side. SpectraCAL is testing the limits of the C6 meters according to their peak output capabilities. So the C6 meter which can read up to 1200-1300cd/2, they are an extra certification for this and named C6 HDR. The other meters that can read below that number or up to 1000cd/2 they named as C6.

SpectraCAL C6-HDR (Branded OEM i1d3) which can measure up to 1.300 cd/m2, which has exact the same hardware with classic i1Display PRO, just it hasn't verified up to what levels it can measure.

The official specs of i1Display PRO are saying that the meter's max luminance capability is 1.000nits, but i1Display PRO's can read up to 1.300 cd/m2 also, but it's up to unit-to-unit variation (randomly) which one will measure up to 1.300 or 1.200 etc.

Here is the list with the published Peak Luminance Range Limit for each meter available in market:

Colorimeters

X-Rite DTP-94 up to 1.000 cd/m2
X-Rite i1Display 2 up to 3.000 cd/m2
Sencore's CP-6000 up to 1.000 cd/m2
X-Rite Chroma 5 up to 1.000 cd/m2
X-Rite Hubble up to 1.350 cd/m2
Sencore OTC-1000 up to 1.350 cd/m2
X-Rite i1Display PRO (i1d3 OEM/Retail i1d3) up to 1.000 cd/m2
SpectraCAL C6 (Branded OEM i1d3) up to 1.000 cd/m2
SpectraCAL C6-HDR (Branded OEM i1d3) up to 1.300 cd/m2
Datacolor Spyder 2 up to 5.000 cd/m2
Datacolor Spyder 3 up to 5.000 cd/m2
Datacolor Spyder 4 up to 5.000 cd/m2
Datacolor Spyder 5 up to 5.000 cd/m2
BasICColor Discus up to 2.500 cd/m2
Colorimetry Research CR-100 up to 5.140 cd/m2
Klein K-80 up to 10.000 cd/m2
Klein K-10A up to 10.000 cd/m2
Minolta CS-100A up to 300.000 cd/m2
Minolta CA-210 up to 1.000 cd/m2
Minolta CA-310 up to 1.000 cd/m2
Minolta CS-200 up to 20.000.000 cd/m2

Spectroradiometers/Spectrophotometers

X-Rite ColorMunki up to 1.000 cd/m2
X-Rite i1PRO1 up to 300 cd/m2
X-Rite i1PRO2 up to 1.200 cd/m2
JETI 1201 up to 70.000 cd/m2 (using optional JETI filters... up to 75.000/250.000 cd/m2)
JETI 1211 up to 2.500 cd/m2 (using optional JETI filters... up to 10.000/25.000/50.000/75.000/250.000 cd/m2)
JETI 1501 up to 150.000 cd/m2
JETI 1511 up to 150.000 cd/m2
Colorimetry Research CR-250RH up to 154.180 cd/m2
Photoreseach PR-650 up to 5.000 cd/m2
Photoreseach PR-655 up to 15.000 cd/m2
Photoreseach PR-670 up to 8.566.000 cd/m2
Photoreseach PR-680 up to 17.130.000 cd/m2
Minolta CS-1000 up to 80.000 cd/m2
Minolta CS-2000 up to 500.000 cd/m2
Minolta CS-2000A up to 500.000 cd/m2


Joel, the lead developer of CalMAN 4/5 (which has left SpectraCAL before some months) is confirming my writtings ''up to 1300 nits'' here: SpectraCal Announces C6-HDR Colorimeter

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 05-18-2017 at 02:21 PM.
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #23 of 49 Old 05-18-2017, 09:39 PM
Member
 
pault1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Berkeley/Kensington mostly
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
LOL, So basically this really adds nothing for the "Average" TV user.
Quote:
To use CalMAN with AutoCal software on a QLED TV, users simply need to obtain the AutoCal Calibration Kit and install the software onto their computer. Once downloaded, users can connect their computer to their QLED TV to begin the autocalibration process. The QLED TV will then share its menu settings with the software so that it can automatically adjust the TV’s picture quality to the user’s preferences.
LOL, So basically this really adds nothing for the "Average" TV user.
(sorry, multiquote seems not to be working for me right now)
Uhmm, this is not a TV that the "Average" TV user purchases ($6K, or $10K for the 75"). And Average user doesn't get a calibration, of this or any TV. If they're more diligent than most, they look up the settings from a review here or somewhere and apply them. In older days we could buy a DVD and work our way through adjusting this = that, this should be just visible at this setting, etc. And that was still more than most probably did. (I'm typing this on a plasma HD monitor that has had a Spyder4Elite calibration of the computer interface at least.)

The average reader at AVSForum probably does the "look up the review" step, and if I drop 6 to 10 large on one of these that is the absolute minimum I would do. Or I will ask the a/v installer to add a cal to his punch list, with a full written report in my final package. With luck the calibration kits will all add HDR functionality up into the newer super-bright levels, and compete themselves down to a price that a user who is closer to Average can manage it.

I think it's great that the manufacturer is doing this - it's a relatively inexpensive step to burn this into the TV's firmware, and if it proves to be a seller you can bet the others will start including it. Look how much we're talking it up here!
pault1 is offline  
post #24 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 12:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
1 need to buy

2 You'll need a Calman 5 version capable of autocal
http://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

and an HDR capable meter like the spectracal C6-HDR.
https://store.portrait.com/meters/sp...lorimeter.html

3 Cheapest software/meter bundle I could find was $999 plus

https://store.portrait.com/calman-bu...al-c6-hdr.html

1. Thanks
but no link to " Calman 5 version " only CalMAN Home Express CalMAN Control CalMAN Enthusiast CalMAN RGB
http://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

2. Cheapest software/meter bundle you find was $999 plus
but It is not cheap and does not fit high quality screens !
no for 2017 and no for HDMI 2.1 FROM 2018......

ONLY TO HDR certificate showing luminance accuracy at a range exceeding 1300 cd/m2 ( SAMSUNG have 2000NITS ) so why to pay 1000$ for 1300 cd/m2

10/12bit or 16 bit
ISF Introduction
Dolby Vision 12BIT

HDR 10+

ONLY " CalMAN Studio with SpectraCal C6-HDR, VirtualForge and AJA Io 4K " at $4,780.00
have 10-bit high-quality 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and High Frame Rate workflow support
so at $999 i not get 10-bit high-quality 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and High Frame Rate

Last edited by popyang45; 05-19-2017 at 12:22 AM.
popyang45 is offline  
post #25 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 12:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
The fact that it will available a manual DDC (direct display control) from inside CalMAN which will save a lot of time navigating/changing settings from the Samsung Remote, open/close manually multiple menus etc, it's helpful for calibrations (PRO or DIY)

KURO (before 10 years) had web-inteface for settings, direct display controls also (using ControlCAL via RS232); which was making real-time adjustments of it's calibration controls very quick, now we have everything in smart TV's, but we loose amazing time to find each calibration setting and adjust it, really shame for current models of all companies.

Samsung with SpectraCAL is doing a good step to trigger other manufacturers to add DDC controls again to their future models.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #26 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 12:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by popyang45 View Post
1. Thanks
but no link to " Calman 5 version " only CalMAN Home Express CalMAN Control CalMAN Enthusiast CalMAN RGB
http://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

2. Cheapest software/meter bundle you find was $999 plus
but It is not cheap and does not fit high quality screens !
To be able to do calibration for HDR (Manual or AutoCAL), you need at least CalMAN Enthusiast.

From the meters which CalMAN Enthusiast license level is supporting only with BasICColor DISCUS (5x times more expensive from i1DisplayPRO...about ~$1200) can read up to 2500 nits2 you will be able to do HDR AutoCAL for that Samsung. The C6-HDR will be fine only for OLED's.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #27 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 12:54 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
To be able to do calibration for HDR (Manual or AutoCAL), you need at least CalMAN Enthusiast.

From the meters which CalMAN Enthusiast license level is supporting only with BasICColor DISCUS (5x times more expensive from i1DisplayPRO...about ~$1200) can read up to 2500 nits2 you will be able to do HDR AutoCAL for that Samsung. The C6-HDR will be fine only for OLED's.
SO " CalMAN Enthusiast " = 400$
BasICColor DISCUS = 1200$ -/+

I got it right ??

Last edited by popyang45; 05-19-2017 at 01:00 AM.
popyang45 is offline  
post #28 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 01:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,221
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1559 Post(s)
Liked: 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by popyang45 View Post
SO " CalMAN Enthusiast " = 300$
BasICColor DISCUS = 4000$

I got it right ??
CalMAN Enthousiast = $399.

BasICColor DISCUS = ~$1200 in USA.

Also you need a pattern generator for HDR, unless the TV with CalMAN generates the required HDR patterns. (Murideo Six-G = $2495)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #29 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 01:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
CalMAN Enthousiast = $399.

BasICColor DISCUS = ~$1200 in USA.

Also you need a pattern generator for HDR, unless the TV with CalMAN generates the required HDR patterns. (Murideo Six-G = $2495)
do samsung q9 need Six-G = $2495 ???

and the Six-G not good for HDMI 2.1+ Video Bandwidth - 18 GBP/sec.
https://store.portrait.com/pattern-g...generator.html

Last edited by popyang45; 05-19-2017 at 01:21 AM.
popyang45 is offline  
post #30 of 49 Old 05-19-2017, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6269 Post(s)
Liked: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
CalMAN Enthousiast = $399.

BasICColor DISCUS = ~$1200 in USA.

Also you need a pattern generator for HDR, unless the TV with CalMAN generates the required HDR patterns. (Murideo Six-G = $2495)
Quote:
Originally Posted by popyang45 View Post
do samsung q9 need Six-G = $2495 ???

and the Six-G not good for HDMI 2.1+ Video Bandwidth - 18 GBP/sec.
https://store.portrait.com/pattern-g...generator.html
So yeah, ummmm. Thanks for boosting the view and comment count on this thread guys. I am sure folks are totally fascinated by this discussion, which looks like a clone of the last such discussion you guys had in one of my threads that talked about calibration.

Really exciting stuff, keep it up.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)

Last edited by imagic; 05-19-2017 at 02:43 AM.
imagic is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

Tags
calman , hdr , qled , Samsung

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off