VR goes thud! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 40 Old 11-24-2016, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 15
VR goes thud!

So we're 1-day ahead of Black Friday and I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the VR displays at three of my largest local Electronics Retailers. Best Buy, WalMart and Target. Absolutely nothing at WalMart and Target. I cornered a couple Sales Associates at Best Buy and asked them where their VR display(s) were. They didn't have any. They said they thought there was one Best Buy store ( about 10-miles away ) that had something on display. But nothing in this store.

IMO this thing is done, cooked and finished. Put a fork in it. If your work'n on something VR, stop. Don't waste your money and energy.

So what's next? Lets go for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smell-O-Vision

at least you would know it would stink up the place in advance.
wilcal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 40 Old 12-25-2016, 09:21 PM
Member
 
MainFragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilcal View Post
So we're 1-day ahead of Black Friday and I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the VR displays at three of my largest local Electronics Retailers. Best Buy, WalMart and Target. Absolutely nothing at WalMart and Target. I cornered a couple Sales Associates at Best Buy and asked them where their VR display(s) were. They didn't have any. They said they thought there was one Best Buy store ( about 10-miles away ) that had something on display. But nothing in this store.

IMO this thing is done, cooked and finished. Put a fork in it. If your work'n on something VR, stop. Don't waste your money and energy.

So what's next? Lets go for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smell-O-Vision

at least you would know it would stink up the place in advance.
Its not unusual for something that is a brand new technology to be under represented at big box stores. I've done a lot of rep work, and its not really that unusual. I will tell you that in all honesty, VR is very early out of the gates, and there are some things that need to happen for it to catch on. Things that, honestly, the manufacturers don't seem to accept. Like it has to work with all PC apps right out of the box. They don't see it that way. To me, thats the biggest nail in its coffin. BUT I also have a Vive, and I can tell you that for everything about it that pisses me off, I keep finding things that it can do that blow my mind and totally suck me in. There are LOTS of cool experiences, games, and 360 and Volumetric videos that are amazing.


I think the average consumer tends to pick up on things in the third or 4th year, and the first 2 years tend to be "word needs to get around", "word of next gen improvements" need to get around.
MainFragger is offline  
post #3 of 40 Old 12-26-2016, 04:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TonyDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,476
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked: 250
I can't speak to Vive and Oculus (other than the fact that the Walmarts and Targets of the world will never sell a high end PC peripheral like that), but as far as Playstation VR is concerned I'm pretty sure nearly all existing stock is sold out and I've read that while demand for more is there there have been some manufacturing problems with the displays that have affected distribution. Whenever some units come on Amazon (excluding the third party mercenaries and their 500% markups) they typically sell out in seconds. I've also read that PSVR has outsold Vive and Oculus combined after only two months. Not terribly shabby for an emerging technology that has been out for only two months without a killer app if you ask me. Given how well they've sold so far, they really don't need to have demo units at this point and I wouldn't expect one until there are some more recognizable titles available to show it off (though the Star Wars VR level would be a good choice).

I can't speak to the longevity of VR or whether it will catch on or not. What I can say is that as an owner of a PSVR headset I absolutely love it. The graphics are lower res but the incredible level of immersion cannot be adequately conveyed thru words and you really need to try one to understand what it brings to the table. It takes gaming to a whole new level and once headsets with better resolution come out it will do the same for watching movies.
G-Rex likes this.
TonyDP is offline  
 
post #4 of 40 Old 12-26-2016, 10:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Worf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,524
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Liked: 308
No, there are plenty of PSVR units to be had. Was at Walmart today and the shelves were fully stocked.

PSVR has the advantage of being almost half the price, but also has little content, and save the Christmas season sales bump, also started languishing on the shelves shortly after release (basically after the first weekend, there was plenty of stock available - it wasn't moving).

The only reason target and Walmart and others carry PSVR is contractual - Sony paid for a certain amount of shelf space, and if they want to dedicate some of it for PSVR, that's sony's prerogative since Sony controls how much shelf space is used for games, accessories, hardware, etc. Best buy works similarly - if you see Vive for sale, HTC paid for that. Of course, they don't have to pay for every store to carry it, they can pay for just a few stores.
Worf is offline  
post #5 of 40 Old 01-20-2017, 12:21 PM
Member
 
forsureman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: at home
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have a gear vr with a s7 and it gets heavy moving my head around. its a novelty right now and the gear vr and the rift use Fresnel lens which has a sweet spot to look out of, outside of that sweet spot the picture is blurry. and the gear vr ski mask pinches too hard on my face unless I correct the straps perfectly, I don't know about the rift but it uses a ski mask form too.


but 360 videos like petes dragon are fun, really really extraordinary fun.
forsureman is offline  
post #6 of 40 Old 01-22-2017, 12:08 PM
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,901
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilcal View Post
IMO this thing is done, cooked and finished. Put a fork in it. If your work'n on something VR, stop. Don't waste your money and energy.
I work in VR and what you suggest is completely absurd.

The virtual and augmented reality industry is just starting to take off. According to research from the International Data Corporation (IDC), worldwide revenues for the augmented reality and virtual reality (AR/VR) market is forecast to grow from $5.2 billion in 2016 to more than $162 billion in 2020.


http://vrscout.com/news/forecast-vr-...-billion-2020/

That's bigger than Hollywood and Videogame industry in general. Videogames in total are also bigger than film at this point too.

The things one reads on AVS...
G-Rex likes this.
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
post #7 of 40 Old 01-22-2017, 02:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Barry C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,351
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
I work in VR and what you suggest is completely absurd.

The virtual and augmented reality industry is just starting to take off. According to research from the International Data Corporation (IDC), worldwide revenues for the augmented reality and virtual reality (AR/VR) market is forecast to grow from $5.2 billion in 2016 to more than $162 billion in 2020.


http://vrscout.com/news/forecast-vr-...-billion-2020/

That's bigger than Hollywood and Videogame industry in general. Videogames in total are also bigger than film at this point too.

The things one reads on AVS...
We shall see. Here is an article from yesterday on the current state of VR. It's not going well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...reality-2017-1

Last edited by Barry C; 01-22-2017 at 02:19 PM.
Barry C is online now  
post #8 of 40 Old 01-22-2017, 02:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DanPackMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked: 601
The problem is that these types of things get hyped way too much, then if they don't turn out to be world changers they are labeled as duds.

VR is a pretty cool technology still in its infancy for home use. It has limitations but also some interesting applications beyond entertainment. There may be a bit of a fad boom, but real base usage will grow more slowly if and when those uses emerge. Extrapolating the fab boom line on the chart is, how do I put it nicely, stupid.
Barry C likes this.
DanPackMan is online now  
post #9 of 40 Old 01-22-2017, 02:54 PM
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,901
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
Many "experts" here on AVS used to also claim that OLED was doomed, that it would take at least till 2020 for 65 inch 4K HDR OLEDs to come if they ever did, and that they'd cost over 10k and that manufacturers going into that market would probably all go under before that happened. Seriously, look back at posts back then. They were extrapolating OLED tech improvements based on how slowly LCD panels improved, which was a big mistake.

But I agree, it's foolish to make predictions, I just know that VR is the dream of many in the graphics industry since they were wee lads (and lassies) and that we're not giving up, ever. If anything, things are likely to progress faster than linearly, due to unexpected spurts of progress that no one could see in a yearly sales forecast. Let alone that Apple is going to release their AR glasses at some point, and AR + VR overlap in so many ways, both in software and hardware, that things are virtually guaranteed to explode. I mean, people are now making VR games in VR now. Talk about eating your own dog food.

I've mostly been waiting myself for more VR games to come out and resolution / FOV / wireless / eye tracking headsets to come out and get cheaper, and once those things happen, all the pieces will start falling into place and we'll see more rapid uptake. It could be just a question of something that catches on like wildfire, like an Angry Birds type game or even something like an AR app like Google Earth overlays. I mean, do you guys really think people aren't going to wear AR glasses to get driving directions in real time without having to use their hands? There are so many industries where VR is booming now, and all the money going in and R&D will eventually yield experiences which are so good, so compelling, that people will wonder how we ever lived without it, similar to smartphones, TV, cars, airlines, etc.

I think if we compare the era of the boob tube being 70 years or so, compared to the era of flat panels lasting 20-30 years, rapidly being overwhelmed by people watching most of their content on tablets, to the era of wearable displays or even displays projected directly into our retina (Magic Leap) or holography, that result in cost savings and manufacturing savings so large that it will make your head spin.

And none of these displays will even compare to directly projecting images into your mind. I have a friend at Harvard working on brain - computer chip interfaces. And supposedly it's possible for it to be wireless as well. So futurama's joke about them beaming ads into your dreams while you sleep is going to move from science fiction to science fact.

Being bullish about VR and AR is really a safe bet, from my vantage point. You need to think bigger. This is all just child's play so far.
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
post #10 of 40 Old 01-31-2017, 04:58 PM
Newbie
 
Jeepwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 3
I just read an article today on the Verge, that reported that Apple Sales of the iWatch broke holiday sales expectations. Tim Cook said they couldn't make enough.

Jeepwalker
Jeepwalker is offline  
post #11 of 40 Old 02-09-2017, 05:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Barry C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,351
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Thud might be an understatement. Gee, even 3D did better than this. See link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/faceb...ormance-2017-2
Barry C is online now  
post #12 of 40 Old 02-09-2017, 07:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
VR is neither virtual nor real. It was killed when Samsung starting hawking their VR headset for their cellphones--and the invention of the cheap google cardboard earlier. Amazon is crammed with cheap knockoff headsets. The crappy image due to pixilation and poor, out-of-focus 3D in a small 3D window made VR a toy for children and adults who thought they were going to get eyes into a beautiful 3D world, and got much less. Most of these headsets sit in closets or dumpsters. Content is king, and there is very little that is useful. Plus HD and 4K gaming with no-lag computing is now taking over the need for Oculist Rift, which is too expensive anyway. And as my son tells me, once you put on an Oculist headset you feel isolated to the people around you, and it's very disorienting and nauseous. Perhaps the Microsoft and other "holographic" glasses that project a 3D environment mixed with a current real environment will someday be the VR that everyone wants, but it might be too little too late now that 3D is dying.

I always hope I'm wrong when it comes to 3D--prosper and long live .
markrubin and Barry C like this.
3DBob is online now  
post #13 of 40 Old 02-09-2017, 10:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 2,228
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 306
I want a holodeck.
Barry C likes this.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #14 of 40 Old 02-09-2017, 06:02 PM
Member
 
Seilerbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Orlando Florida
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I did not think VR had enough weight to actually make a sound when it crashed.
Seilerbird is offline  
post #15 of 40 Old 02-24-2017, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
VR is neither virtual nor real. It was killed when Samsung starting hawking their VR headset for their cellphones--and the invention of the cheap google cardboard earlier. Amazon is crammed with cheap knockoff headsets. The crappy image due to pixilation and poor, out-of-focus 3D in a small 3D window made VR a toy for children and adults who thought they were going to get eyes into a beautiful 3D world, and got much less. Most of these headsets sit in closets or dumpsters. Content is king, and there is very little that is useful. Plus HD and 4K gaming with no-lag computing is now taking over the need for Oculist Rift, which is too expensive anyway. And as my son tells me, once you put on an Oculist headset you feel isolated to the people around you, and it's very disorienting and nauseous. Perhaps the Microsoft and other "holographic" glasses that project a 3D environment mixed with a current real environment will someday be the VR that everyone wants, but it might be too little too late now that 3D is dying.

I always hope I'm wrong when it comes to 3D--prosper and long live .
Gear and Cardboard = you get what you pay for. If it's not satisfying enough, there's high-end VR.

I don't know how you can suggest 4K monitors will replace the need for VR headsets. VR puts you inside the virtual world, and motion controls change everything. A 4K monitor is just the same as the upgrade from SD to HD to Full HD. It's a welcome visual enhancement.

VR is only as isolating as you let it be, which is determined by how much time you spend in it, how high you set the volume, how isolating the headphones are, and generally how mindful you are of other people's needs. VR has been very social for me, it's a great conversation piece and also great for group play with games like Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes.

VR also heightens online social interactions. Virtual encounters feel like you're standing face to face with a real, expressive person who mutually acknowledges you. Even if that person is a floating blue tentacled alien wearing a cowboy hat.

Games are currently a focus due to that audience meeting the minimum specs, but there are also many creative, productive, therapeutic and educational uses to explore.
Don Landis and TonyDP like this.
cakefoo is offline  
post #16 of 40 Old 02-24-2017, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
cakefoo, what technology are you using?
3DBob is online now  
post #17 of 40 Old 02-24-2017, 03:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
HTC Vive.
cakefoo is offline  
post #18 of 40 Old 02-28-2017, 06:15 PM
sfm
Member
 
sfm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I'm one the fence about the future of VR... I have a high-end gaming rig (well, it was a few months ago anyways) and purchased the HTC Vive to see what VR is all about... My conclusion is that it has great potential but obviously is not quite there. My impressions:

The bad:
- perceived resolution is poor
- sometimes induces nausea
- limited field of view (horizontally)
- crap VR games (other than Arizona Sunshine and the racing/flight sims) all of the VR games I have tried have been nothing more than a novelty... the fun quickly subsides. Seems to me existing games (non-VR) could be leveraged to use VR and provide an experience way better than these so called dedicated games.

The first three I understand better after reading some technical articles related to the challenge of the hardware and software design... amazed actually that it works as well as it does given all of these challenges.

The good (and potentially great):
- great for racing/flight simulation... can't emphasize how good VR is for these (assuming you have a decent wheel/hotas setup that mitigates the need for a keyboard). The immersion is terrific... racing in an open wheel car you really feel like you are there (especially when you undercut someone ahead and lift 'em up)... or flying down a stage in Dirt Rally... holy crap! Sitting in the plane cockpits (DCS world or WarThunder) is simply a treat. The nausea effect sometimes experienced in flight sims often seems proper! It's hard to use a regular monitor setup for these after using VR.

I think all of the negatives can be addressed in time... the question is whether or not enough people spend enough money on VR hardware/games now and in the near future to ensure that VR development continues to advance.
sfm is offline  
post #19 of 40 Old 03-06-2017, 09:59 PM
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,901
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
I tried the Starbreeze and let me tell ya, 210 degrees FOV and 5K res is awesome. So thrilling.
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
post #20 of 40 Old 03-07-2017, 06:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
I tried the Starbreeze and let me tell ya, 210 degrees FOV and 5K res is awesome. So thrilling.
Was the demo in 3D? It looks promising. What is the intended retail price? Can you see the pixels, or do they dissolve into an immersive image?

Here's their website: http://www.starvr.com/news/
3DBob is online now  
post #21 of 40 Old 03-07-2017, 07:45 AM
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,901
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
It's razor sharp, that res is quite worthy of being called 2nd Gen VR. But the FOV is what nails it. It's WAAAAAY more immersive just because of that.

For my own purchases, I still require 90fps min (120 is better since it's an even multiple of 60p and 24p too, for 3D movies even with interpolation even multiples of frame rate are better), eye tracking, and wireless, on top of higher res. Ideally HDR too would be perfect. (HDR OLED phones are out now so HDR + VR can't be far off).

When you work in the field and wear VR headsets all day you tend to get more particular.

Within one more year we should have all or most of these things. As soon as wireless comes out too, with wide FOV and higher res, VR is going to start turning even the worst naysayers into believers. And wide FOV also helps a LOT with motion sickness. Not worrying about a wire is also a huge irritant and nuisance which kills immersion and reminds you constantly you're just in a sim. Especially when you are doing standing room VR games and worrying about tripping over wires, that's not the best way to play a game IMO. You should worry about in-game obstacles and objects only, not something which could literally cause you injury in real life.
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
post #22 of 40 Old 03-17-2017, 08:14 PM
Member
 
ryudoadema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CT, United States
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Most people who have come over to try my Vive have said they needed to get one, and that is only after trying an easy intro tech demo like The Blu or The Lab. Then they hear the price and most say they will wait for it to go down, yet a few have taken the plunge without regret. The people who didn't want to buy it, were mostly my grandparents...

So just imagine how this will catch on when prices are more mainstream and resolution is sky-high, wireless and eye tracking are a thing as well as inside-out tracking. Full, high-quality titles are really just getting started in VR, and many VR games have made their developers millionaires already. As for sales of the HMD's, they are not as abysmal as people think given their price. I believe HTC has sold ~500,000 units at $800 a piece. That's 400 million bucks on that headset alone, but in reality let's say half of them also purchased a conservative $1000 VR ready PC who didn't already have one. That adds up to $650,000,000 just for the consumers that wanted to use a Vive. The Rift has already lowered their price by 25%, so I think prices will be much more affordable in the next few years, whilst the experience will be exponentially greater as well.

Those who think it is isolating, have not played online multiplayer games in VR. The sense of camaraderie and presence of others is unparalleled as you work together or against each other. You are there, and you see the other people's movements and hear them in real time. Heck, you can give them a high five or give hand signals, or get up close and whisper strategies so that the enemy doesn't hear you. As for others around you in real life, well, your in VR partially as escapism so who cares? lol! Seriously, though- it's actually a lot of fun watching on a monitor what someone is doing in VR or seeing them walk around like a crazy person. There are also asynchronous multiplayer games where one person plays on the headset, and others on a PC- or even several using the wands around the room. They are getting pretty inventive.

As much as I sound like it, I'm not a fanboy I am just thinking of this logically ( I know that's what a fanboy would say ). Looking at all the people who have had their minds blown and love the experience in VR, I have no doubt whatsoever that this will continue on and be huge in coming years.

BTW, some of the more full-blown and polished games I speak of include: Resident Evil 7, Arizona Sunshine, Raw Data, Racket: NX, a bunch of Oculus funded games like Robo Recall and The Unspoken, and there are definitely more especially upcoming. Also, while everyone is complaining about many of the games being short tech demos, I find this to be true but also great. Being an adult, I don't have that much time to delve into those long, deep story lines. So I very much enjoy being able to get through a short, enjoyable experience in an hour or two or less. It also allows developers to experiment and figure out what works and also get some practice in before moving on to bigger things.

If anyone's actually read this far, I am very sorry for the huge wall of text! I've gotten off into a tangent here...

BenQ HT3050 (Previously BenQ W1070, Epson 8350, Mits HD1000u)
Elite 100" Spectrum Electric 16:9 Screen
Sony STRDH550 Receiver
SVS SBS-01, PB12-NSD 5.1 system (Previously Polk Blackstone T1900 5.1, PSW505)
HTPC/Vive/Wii U
ryudoadema is offline  
post #23 of 40 Old 04-07-2017, 11:50 PM
Senior Member
 
SFMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 46
It's interesting to see all those on this site that were rooting for 3D TV to die and were successful in it's demise now have another nascent technology to kill just because they aren't a fan of it. Your attitudes suck and if you don't like 3D in any form just don't participate and keep your ill will and negative opinions to yourselves as you all come off as trolls rather than tech enthusiasts.
Don Landis and macaronia like this.
SFMike is offline  
post #24 of 40 Old 04-08-2017, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Hmmm, I think you have misread the impact of these forums on 3D. Yes there are lots of people on other non-3D forums that wish 3D would die quickly, but on these forums, we are worried that poor implementations of consumer 3D will kill 3D. Especially, the current influx of cheap VR glasses using cellphones with poor images. The fun doesn't last, and people get jaded against 3D. Same with 3D TVs. They can be just too complex to use (my neighbor and a best friend are good examples), and therefore they don't use it. Plus, now some movie directors and companies are pushing away from 3D because of the additional costs. If anything, the people on these 3D boards are enthusiasts, who are trying like heck to keep the 3D candles burning. But we do like to point out when technology gets pushed into the wrong direction and makes it self-defeating as VR is doing. I've got many friends who have tried the VR glasses with their phones and think it's absolute junk, why bother. Plus it's nauseating. It's why this thread got started in the first place. Bad implementations just put more nails into the 3D coffin...and we worry about that too.

That said, the fact that you are worried that 3D opponent trolls are going to ruin it for the rest of us, says you are a real 3D trooper, and for that I will give you some teeth .
Barry C likes this.
3DBob is online now  
post #25 of 40 Old 04-21-2017, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Just saw this. I was part of the big jump into life-size VR modeling for automotive companies and architecture design of buildings, malls, etc. back in the late 1990s. Anyway, we fell into the trough of disillusionment at the time because of the large expense needed to drive the technology at the time--huge 3 crt projectors set to do shutterglass VR driven by million dollar computers. Anyway, the auto design engineers didn't really like it as it threatened their jobs. It also took weeks to months to design prototypes using extremely complicated software--a lot of it still used today for movies. The VR design cycle was just too long and complicated. We built a complete mall that you could walk around in, and that caused huge pushback from artists who painted 3D sketched renderings of buildings--still done mostly that way today. It's still being used, but mostly for testing designs for crash worthiness, and perhaps engineering design to see how all the parts operate together. But full mockup vehicles that you can sit in and play with in a VR state just didn't make it--though some companies show models in their marketing and at trade shows, but that's mostly for hype and fluff. Anyway, here's where the consumer market is now, and it's suffering some of the same overhype that I experienced back in the day.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...ent/ar-BBA6T7v
3DBob is online now  
post #26 of 40 Old 04-22-2017, 01:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Just saw this. I was part of the big jump into life-size VR modeling for automotive companies and architecture design of buildings, malls, etc. back in the late 1990s. Anyway, we fell into the trough of disillusionment at the time because of the large expense needed to drive the technology at the time--huge 3 crt projectors set to do shutterglass VR driven by million dollar computers. Anyway, the auto design engineers didn't really like it as it threatened their jobs. It also took weeks to months to design prototypes using extremely complicated software--a lot of it still used today for movies. The VR design cycle was just too long and complicated. We built a complete mall that you could walk around in, and that caused huge pushback from artists who painted 3D sketched renderings of buildings--still done mostly that way today. It's still being used, but mostly for testing designs for crash worthiness, and perhaps engineering design to see how all the parts operate together. But full mockup vehicles that you can sit in and play with in a VR state just didn't make it--though some companies show models in their marketing and at trade shows, but that's mostly for hype and fluff. Anyway, here's where the consumer market is now, and it's suffering some of the same overhype that I experienced back in the day.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...ent/ar-BBA6T7v
Manufacturing Cars with Virtual Reality

Ford's VR program has been going on for years.
cakefoo is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old 04-22-2017, 06:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
Manufacturing Cars with Virtual Reality

Ford's VR program has been going on for years.
We had a similar article published back in 2000 about how GM was using VR, and I can tell you, it was mostly just a couple of engineers in their advanced research design area. The day-to-day engineers were off doing their own thing as they have done year and year. So take that article as a lot of fluff from their advanced research center. That said, I would love to be wrong and it says they are building caves in Europe as well, and maybe they are finally using it to actually produce cars. I will have to check with some buddies of mine still in the industry. Thanks for the link to that article.
3DBob is online now  
post #28 of 40 Old 04-22-2017, 11:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
We had a similar article published back in 2000 about how GM was using VR, and I can tell you, it was mostly just a couple of engineers in their advanced research design area. The day-to-day engineers were off doing their own thing as they have done year and year. So take that article as a lot of fluff from their advanced research center. That said, I would love to be wrong and it says they are building caves in Europe as well, and maybe they are finally using it to actually produce cars. I will have to check with some buddies of mine still in the industry. Thanks for the link to that article.
No problem!

I'm not worried at all about the current growth rate- I own a Vive but I'm not going to recommend it to anyone who doesn't have plenty of disposable income or at least a very strong interest in VR, because I see the hardware evolving very rapidly, and the current headsets being obsolete in a year or two. The next major headsets will likely be wireless, higher resolution, more comfortable, and be equipped with eyetracking to allow not only new levels of interaction and social immersion, but also leverage foveated rendering to improve quality/performance/reduce the entry level PC spec requirements. I'm also looking forward to having outward-facing stereo cameras for augmented reality, and built-in depth sensors for environmental scanning without external beacons, as well as hand/finger tracking.

In the short term I'm looking forward to the wireless addon, deluxe audio strap, and software like MindShow, MakeVR, music apps, Budget Cuts, Fallout 4, a Vive version of Resident Evil 7, the 3 games Valve is working on, and the countless sleeper hits and announcements to come.

For what it's worth, before consumer headsets launched, Palmer Luckey and Mark Zuckerberg (both from Oculus) said we're entering the Palm Pilot days of consumer VR and it would take at least 10, maybe 20 years to go mass market, and that it would take time to figure out what to even do with VR. It's safe to say they weren't wrong about early VR, but I'm also optimistic that content and hardware creators will prove them right in a decade.
cakefoo is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old 04-23-2017, 07:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Let's hope that the heads up display VR industry also keeps the 3D theater, projector and TV industry alive as well. I'm still looking for the promised hoverboard, although now I'm too old for it...
3DBob is online now  
post #30 of 40 Old 05-01-2017, 06:30 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,404
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1313 Post(s)
Liked: 373
Bob- I bought the goggles from Walmart that you alerted me too and while much of what you observed I agree with, the little I invested seems well worth the experience of using them with my 360° camera content. It's a while new experience to play the 360 video I shot on my iphone 6+ and pan around with my finger vs, put the iphone 6+ in the goggles and just look around. It's good for a viewing of short play experience. But the pixel viewing does get annoying after a short time watching. The only thing that will cure this is higher resolution. With the iphone 6+ and my camera I am limited to 2K recording as it is earlier technology. The next step is to upgrade my camera to a 4K system which should increase the resolution considerably but will probably still not give the result of a smooth high resolution image. Then with 3D it adds to the problem.

If I had a desire to use these VR systems for long serious viewing like cakefoo, for gaming etc, then I would be inclined to go with the best I can afford. But I'm not into it like that. I do enjoy the quick VR experience of those $20 cheap goggles. So I shoot something with my 360camera, dump it to my iphone. Put the iphone into those goggles and within a minute or two, I am experience the VR world that is fun. But after 5-10 minutes, off they come and I'm ready to shoot some more. Then there is the live view:

Live view is really fascinating. I can shoot and stream to my iphone6+ in the goggles. Then as it is recording I can play that back later with the goggles and view what I missed before.

Ready for more fun? dji has a way you can control the dji Mavic Pro drone now with "Flight mode" controlled by VR head gear. This was just released last week in a firmware update which I have but I have not yet tried it. It may require their head gear. I only know what it does but not sure how to use it yet.

So, while I'm not into this like cakefoo, I look to his lead on these things and currently enjoy the ride. Not sure where it will take me.

I don't expect 8K still photogrphy quality or 8K 3D but the look around control is an experience that is just plain fun!
3DBob likes this.

My 3D videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR 4311ci, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite: Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director15, i7-950, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Virtual Reality (VR) & Augmented Reality (AR)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off