Spring HEMI Meet - Saturday May 14th - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 78 Old 03-15-2011, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Spring HEMI Meet
Hartland, MI
(US23/M59 area)
Saturday, May 14th
5pm - 8pm



Agenda:

  1. Welcome/Introductions
  2. Show the group 2-3 photos of your Home Theatre for general discussion/feedback of any HT topics (bring jpeg files on USB stick)
  3. Break/Food
  4. Acoustic Treatments Discussion (feel free to bring photos, samples, etc.)
  5. Remote Controls
    1. Universal/Programmable remote technologies
    2. Using your Ipod Touch/Ipad as a remote
  6. Sub Showdown!!!! (with REW5 running for freq charts)
  7. Demo Disc playback with IB sub + sub showdown winner - how many db's can we get! (2011 CES DTS disc and avs "another demo disc" by scubasteve)
Well, it appears that we have enough interest to plan a Spring HEMI meet!! Special thanks to Mike (mtbdudex) for offering to host the meet! If you are interested in attending, please PM myself and mtbdudex so that we can add you to the list and provide directions.



If you would like to participate in the Sub Showdown, please let us know in advance so that we can make sure we can accomodate your setup at the meet. This is a friendly, fun competition, so please bring a sub regardless of type/size. There will be fun awards for those who participate.

If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact us via PM (or post here for others to see).

We hope to see you in May.

Nick
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post #2 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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reserved for updates

Current list of attendees:

Nick (NGiovas)
Mike (mtbdudex) [IB sub]
Itai (cubesys)
Brian (Sands_at_Pier147) [SVS PC-12]
Stuart (duckstu) [M&K MX-350 sub]
(scervin)
John (aackthpt)
Axel
Jim (JSalk)
Craig (suffolk]
Ron (Ron)
Kevin (sandbagger) [UFW BigBlock]
Mike (putox1051) [Epik Empire, Emotiva Ultra 12, maybe SVS PC-12NSD]
putox's A/V Beer Loving Geek Friend
Brad (sharpbg)
Joe (EvilYoda)

Geordon* (tentative)
PAD* (tentative)

If you are planning to attend, make sure you PM us so that we can add you to the list.
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post #3 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 08:40 AM
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Looking forward to this, both the technical exchange and as a social gathering, thx to Nick for being the leader.

For those attending, and since I know most of you just virtually, here is a recent iPhone mug shot of myself (and my 5 year old son while roller skating last week).


Itai (cubesys) indicated he'll be able to attend and show us iRule (Remote control), iRule...introducing a new remote... for the iPhone & iPad


For the subwoofer shootout, I have 3 un-used subwoofer feeds, one on LH side of front wall, and 2 on LH wall front and rear portion.
Prior I'll put my family room subwoofer in 2nd row and 1st row actual seat and do a subwoofer "crawl" listening to optimual "other" position for sub's for the shoot out. They also have power by each as well.

We've had 13-15 people in the HT before with extra chairs, and it is open to the rec area as easy overflow also.

fwiw, here is rear view of our HT
We also just got the 1st row HT Berkline 12006 seats via Roman/avs store last week, so people can test those out also.


Here is front view of our HT.
I'll be making floor-ceiling 24x24x34 superchunk broadband bass trap on LH side of screen (lower portion will be removable for extra subwoofer usage), and tri-corner bass trap that will go above the IB sub on RH side of screen this weekend.
So bass acoustic wise we should be about as good as one can get in a small room......


Ceiling/side wall acoustic treatments shown here:
LH side wall........................................................ .....RH side wall:


Also just picked up cabinets from Lowes, 20% off, to finish this basement project as well, for a nice serving/eating area opposite the kitchenette area:


The low tech hand drawn HT layout...
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post #4 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 01:39 PM
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I'm in. Looking forward to it. Thanks for setting it up, Nick. And thanks, Mike, for hosting.

Hmmm ... Eight weeks gives me ample time to brew some beer for this event, too ...

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Brian
The Cinema Rouge Home Theater
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post #5 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sands_at_Pier147 View Post

I'm in. Looking forward to it. Thanks for setting it up, Nick. And thanks, Mike, for hosting.
...

+1
____
Axel

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post #6 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sands_at_Pier147 View Post
I'm in. Looking forward to it. Thanks for setting it up, Nick. And thanks, Mike, for hosting.

Hmmm ... Eight weeks gives me ample time to brew some beer for this event, too ...
Do I sense a friendly "brewmaster" competition between you and Nick??
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post #7 of 78 Old 03-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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Ohhh, I'd like to attend this too. I'm in Bloomfield.

Are we to bring one of our subs for testing? I have a pair of the M&K MX-350 subs with the linear A-B amps. I run them through a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033C.

I also just bought a Harmony 890 remote, and only use the RF extender for control (eliminates the lag most Harmonys are reported to have). LOVE IT. I had ben using an URC MX-850 remote with an rf reciever/IR blaster,.. but I caouldn't remember how to build and modify the macros when I changed some gear years later. Hence the Harmony.
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post #8 of 78 Old 03-17-2011, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Axel and Duckstu, make sure you PM Mike or I to get on the list (if you haven't already). Hope to see both of you there.

Duckstu - yes, please bring your sub. The more, the merrier!!

Brian, I don't know if I will have time to brew a new batch between now and then, but even if I don't I should be able to bring some homebrew along. Let's talk before the meet.
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post #9 of 78 Old 03-20-2011, 06:23 PM
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Say NGiovas,...

Can you also list the subs people will be bringing in that first or second post?

I have a friend who is studying all the reviews of the various hot subs out there (Seaton Submersive, Rythmic, CraigSub, SVS-Ultra, Epik Empire, ED A-7, HSU VTF-15, etc) ,... but of course neither of us have heard any of these.

If any of those will be there,.. he would like to come too. He's buiilding an HT room in his basement and is going pretty wild. Considering two of the CraigSubs in a small room. (Bring nausea pills LOL).
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post #10 of 78 Old 03-20-2011, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Sure. I will try to get the subs listed next to the participant in the next few days. That will allow people to get a sense of what will be there.
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post #11 of 78 Old 03-22-2011, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Great news - Jim Salk of Salk Signature Sound (local to Michigan) has notified me that he will be able to attend the Spring HEMI Meet. I have asked him if he would do a short talk on subs and what to look for in a home theater sub.

He may even have a surprise for us at the meet. More info to come later, so stay tuned.

Nick
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post #12 of 78 Old 03-23-2011, 11:20 AM
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as of 5/14/2011 9am:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

reserved for updates

Current list of attendees:
Name (avs name)

Nick (NGiovas)
Mike (mtbdudex) [IB sub]
Itai (cubesys)
Brian (Sands_at_Pier147) [SVS PC-12]
Stuart (duckstu) [M&K MX-350 sub]
Real Name? (scervin)
John (aackthpt)
Axel (Axel)
Jim (JSalk)
Craig (suffolk112000) (added 3/28)
Ron (Ron) (added 4/11)
Kevin (sandbagger) [UFW BigBlock]
Geordon (Geordon)* (tentative)
Pete (PAD ) (tentative)
Brad (sharpbg)
Joe (EvilYoda)
Mike friend Zoran (putox1051) Epik Empire, an Emotiva Ultra 12, & maybe an SVS PC-12NSD.
Greg (gworrel)

If you are planning to attend, make sure you PM us so that we can add you to the list.

I'm sending PM with link to jpg map to my home, the avs PM system does NOT let you embed documents in a PM.
(and only 3 people / per PM)

As Nick adds more people to post#2, I'll PM them and add their name to here as tracking of those with the map.

7 weeks will go by quickly!
edit 4/20: Now 3 weeks away....
edit 5/9: 5 days away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

US23 construction between I-96 and M-59 @ Hyne Road slows the drive by adding 5-10 more minutes via daily back-up bad Northbound, even weekends,
http://mdotwas1.mdot.state.mi.us/pub...t=Submit#19081

Hard to gage US23 northbound between I-96 and M-59, sometimes the back-up not so bad, other times a few miles, just 1 lane @ Hyne road overpass chokes the flow.

Later tonight I'll send an alternate route to all expected/tentative attendees for those that HATE sitting in traffic jams....either route works of course, you guys choose!
Basically alternate route is I-96 to Grand River exit west to Hacker road north then some paved roads then 2-3 miles of dirt roads...Some of you suburbanites will get you vehicles a little dusty.....sorry

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post #13 of 78 Old 03-28-2011, 08:04 AM
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Count me in...!
Been a loonnngggg time since someone had a meet...!

Craig

Domino's donÂt fall all at once, they fall one at a time...
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post #14 of 78 Old 03-28-2011, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Count me in...!
Been a loonnngggg time since someone had a meet...!

Craig


Hi Craig. Make sure you send Mike or I a PM so we can get you the directions.

For everyone: If you know others who haven't responded yet, make sure you let them know about the meet. I'm not sure how often people check this forum.

Nick
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post #15 of 78 Old 03-29-2011, 07:55 AM
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Craig sent PM with map to the meet, I also asked in the DIY speakers forum Subwoofer shootout 301: How to have a sub shootout @ your home
, to help organize and have a successful and FUN subwoofer shootout.

fwiw, we have family vacation @ Disney World 4/1 - 4/9, so after Thur 3/31 I won't be checking this thread until Sun 4/10.
My 2 nieces will be house and dog sitting, Thursday nite I show them how to operate the HT remote, load blu-ray in PS3, etc.
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post #16 of 78 Old 03-29-2011, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

fwiw, we have family vacation @ Disney World 4/1 - 4/9, so after Thur 3/31 I won't be checking this thread until Sun 4/10.


Go ahead and rub it in Mike . That's OK. I'm guessing the weather here in SE Michigan will be just as nice next week.
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post #17 of 78 Old 03-29-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Go ahead and rub it in Mike . That's OK. I'm guessing the weather here in SE Michigan will be just as nice next week.

Posting something like this would really be considered "rubbing it in"
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post #18 of 78 Old 03-30-2011, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Count me in...!
Been a loonnngggg time since someone had a meet...!

Craig

+1!

By the way Craig, I think it's time to update your byline...
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post #19 of 78 Old 03-30-2011, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds great Ron. I will add you to the list.
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post #20 of 78 Old 04-18-2011, 06:46 AM
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Hahahaha...
Yea but Ron, are our rooms EVER finished...? hahahaha...
But I guess construction is finished.
I'll probobly be arriving around 6pm.

Domino's donÂt fall all at once, they fall one at a time...
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post #21 of 78 Old 04-18-2011, 10:20 AM
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You may put me down as a tentative. Any idea how to get my Submersive HP into the back of my Stealth?
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post #22 of 78 Old 04-18-2011, 01:07 PM
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Just saw this, and unfortunately and Ironically I'm already committed to attending a wedding near Kalamazoo on the 14th (still thinking of how I might sneak out ).

Sounds like a fun time. Hopefully there will be a few more this year.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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post #23 of 78 Old 04-19-2011, 10:39 AM
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Count Me IN

Now what and how many subs should I bring

I can bring the sealed UFW BigBlock 15" 1000W and if we(seaton and I) get the quad 15" done I will see about that.

Now to get mark going on getting the cabinets done

Kevin
----------
Motor City Custom Audio
Bringing you Custom subwoofer kits, with flames if you want
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post #24 of 78 Old 04-19-2011, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Geordon, hopefully you can make it so that you don't miss out on all of the fun like Mark . Mark, I guess now we have an excuse to plan another meet just so you can attend.

Kevin, sounds great. One more sub to add to the mix. This is going to be a great meet.
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post #25 of 78 Old 04-20-2011, 07:01 PM
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I'd like to attend, along with a friend of mine to help me load up a few subs. We can bring an Epik Empire, an Emotiva Ultra 12, & maybe an SVS PC-12NSD. Let me know if you have room for 2 more A/V Beer loving geeks.



Mike Caputo
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post #26 of 78 Old 04-21-2011, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

Based on the current list of subs that will be part of the showdown, I hope your house meets all earthquake resistance standards.
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post #27 of 78 Old 04-21-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Mike,

Based on the current list of subs that will be part of the showdown, I hope your house meets all earthquake resistance standards.

Well, this will be cool!
Definitely worthy of running as many subs as possible at same time, taking videos of the result...see peoples pants legs/arm sleeves move due to huge dispalcment!
After the meet we'll post our own version of that old Memorex commercial.


I will have extra extension cords available to tap into (2) additional 20A circuits, so we'll have for power on 4 seperate circuits as follows:

1) my IB sub circuit is 20A dedicated;
2) The HT plug circuit is 15A dedicated
3) Rec/Kitchenette circuit has 20A for refrig plug that was moved to utility room
4) Rec/play room plug circuit is 15A

We should be able to have 6-8 subs running at once - power wise.
What I have to do is get extra sub line splitters now, my Denon AVR-4308CI has 1 sub out that feeds my IB sub.
I was going to split that into 4 feeds, 1 for the IB sub and 3 for the HT per my pre-wiring, via single 1>2 sliitter, then 2 more 1>2 splitters, giving 4 line level feeds.
However if desire to feed more than 4 subs @ once then I'll need 4 more 1>2 splitters? (and the extra cabling)
I wonder if the line level voltage will drop too much from all that splitting (more than 4), can Jim Salk/other advise me?

What I need to know from the people bringing their subs is their air displacement ability in liters, then we can know the total potential displacement.
PM Nick so we can sum it up in the attendee list, the geeky stuff ya know!
Somewhere in these various forums I've read that 60L is considered the tops in HT....

MY IB sub is 3.07 L/driver * 4 drivers (AE IB15) = 12.28 L total
(I had to go to this handy chart http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ginmtb/wo...ison_chart.htm )
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post #28 of 78 Old 04-21-2011, 01:26 PM
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Hey guys, after posting the above I've read this thread If One Sub is Good, Are Two Better? .

Looks like a lot of work to integrate multiple subs into a HT environment, we will have different subs not same subs which makes it harder/more involved.
A one-vs-one sub shootout is do-able of course, but I'll defer to Jim Salk if we can have a "monster sub jam" or not at the end of this meet.......
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post #29 of 78 Old 04-25-2011, 10:07 AM
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Put me down as tentative.
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post #30 of 78 Old 04-28-2011, 06:27 AM
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If you were not in Michigan ... I would go to this event. I could show everyone a few tweaks that actually work and have a panel of AVS Forum members to back up my claims.

Here is what I do...and if you value defined, articulate, note accurate bass ... as I do ... the results are proven and dramatic.

First thing I would do in your setup is turn the Subwoofers sideways, 90 degrees away from your ear. This way you are not getting the direct radiated sound from the sub that will cause your main channels to sound muddy, less articulate, and less defined.

Properly done, this will improve detail, imaging, accuracy, and musicality.

First, calibrate your system using a tones and an SPL. This is a good rough in, but not the final end all be all tweaked setup ... at least not in my opinion.

Then, take an accurate laser tape measure or an old fashioned tape measure...and move the center of the sub to within 1" of your main speakers as measured from your listening position.

It does not matter where the sub ends up. As you can see in my Office Stereo System pictured below, the sub is quite a distance from the wall. This is where it needed to be to meet the spec I outlined above. If I move it even 1" from where it is, I immediately lose definition, detail, imaging, and clarity .... across the entire spectrum of sound.

Proper subwoofer setup, adjustment, and position impact overall sound quality on a level that is dramatic and demonstrable to anyone in the room. I have been able to show the difference to anyone ... and once I tell them specifically what to listen for ... they can detect even the most subtle changes from that point forward.

After you are done turning your subs sideways and measuring, put on some reference STEREO material, preferably a well recorded jazz album with very defined acoustic bass. I prefer to use Mapleshade Audio recordings. Just call Pierre and tell him you want some "good plucked bass" ... he will laugh and then set you up with a reference album or two. Believe me, you will rarely ever hear anything that sounds like Pierre's recordings.

Then, while listening, turn the LFE / Sub Level down until you can hear the bass player's fingers clearly on the string....or as close to it as you can get with whatever you use for speakers. Less sub is better than more, so it is always better defaulting to less Sub Level than too much.

FYI - I strictly using Gallo Strada Reference or Diva Ti Speakers in my systems. Their ability to deliver accurate, detailed, clean, well imaged, articulate, musical, note accurate sound is nothing short of amazing.

Then, while listening, move the sub a few inches in each direction until you find the point where it "couples" with the room. You will know right away because the plucked bass will become one with the room. You will no longer be able to define its location as "Coming from the Sub." Instead, the bass will become part of the soundstage ... tighter, better defined, and with better rhythm, pace, musicality and synchronicity. In addition, you will notice your main speakers open up dramatically in the same way.

People may argue that they do not listen to music on their home theater systems like I do. However, it doe snot a matter. Poor sound is poor sound...EVERYTHING benefits from setting your system up the right way ... and it just so happens that music is the easiest and best thing to use for tweaking your system.

Of course, some people like rumbling, poorly defined, muddy bass...they think that is cool. This is where the opinions come in to play. If they like that sound, that is their preference, so they should stick with it. Personally, I do not like that sound. I want to hear every detail there is to hear ... I do not want anything buried in the mix.

This is only one tweak...which is really Pierre's tweak to be honest. I have known Pierre for years and he has never been wrong once about system improvements and recommendations. Not once in over a decade that I have know him.

I also have some other tweaks as well...and ALL are demonstrable and easily proven ... but they go against conventional beliefs.

Unfortunately, most people would rather debate about something they have never even tried rather than trying it first and seeing if it actually makes a difference...so I rarely step out and make these recommendations.

Figure I would try and see how many flamethrowers come out and get pointed at me ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Looking forward to this, both the technical exchange and as a social gathering, thx to Nick for being the leader.

Itai (cubesys) indicated he'll be able to attend and show us iRule (Remote control), iRule...introducing a new remote... for the iPhone & iPad


For the subwoofer shootout, I have 3 un-used subwoofer feeds, one on LH side of front wall, and 2 on LH wall front and rear portion.
Prior I'll put my family room subwoofer in 2nd row and 1st row actual seat and do a subwoofer "crawl" listening to optimual "other" position for sub's for the shoot out. They also have power by each as well.


LL
LL

Richard J. Casey



Disney WOW - World of Wonder


Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
(BD Industry Insider)
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