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post #1 of 50 Old 03-23-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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It’s time for a dedicated GTG thread. This will be the spot for comments on the new JTR 215RT full range speakers that will be shown on March 29, 2014 in my HT in Northern Ca. Jeff Permanian is flying out to help with setup and will be attending the GTG. It looks like 20 or so Forum member/friends will be attending. I will be sending out PM’s with details today to those who have expressed interest.

BTW, Keith Yates has indicated he will be attending and so that adds an interesting educational aspect to the GTG. Makes me a little nervous as my home grown HT could never live up to his standards (just take a look at his under construction website and the project photos slide show cool.gif) , but it has been helpful for me to get his take on things and I do appreciate the instructive/constructive comments.smile.gif Also, and as noted in a really big font below wink.gif )

John Hamm of PONO Music will be here to give us an exclusive first look/listen to the PONO player. This is a device I have been tracking and I was one of the first to order a Signature Edition PONO player on their Kickstarter site but these units will not be available until October. I am really excited to get this chance to hear this device and meet one of the founders, John Hamm. Check out the PONO website for more details.

We will also have the current version of the JRiver software running on my HTCP and Michael Boeker (desertdome) will be here to demo that very cool software.

The HT will be in a 7.2 configuration with the LFE routed to the 215RT LCR’s via a Rane RPM88 multiprocessor and so no separate subs. Surrounds are JTR Triple8-LP side surrounds and JTR Slanted 8 surround backs. My Pre-Pro is an Integra DHC 80.3. Power will be a Lab Gruppen FP10000q 4 channel (2000wpc) driving the LCR’s and my Wyred 4 Sound 7 channel amp driving the surrounds (I have an LG FP10000q clone amp from Sanway in reserve). We will be using my HTPC and two Bluray players (OPPO BDP83 and Panasonic 3D) for music and movie clips.

I am going against the grain by having the subs located in the main speakers and realize that this isn’t the ideal location for the subs. My previous subs were located in the front of the room under or next to the main speakers and I was always able to get a reasonable frequency response from that location so I’m confident I can make it work.

On the video side, I have a Sony HW 50ES and the screen is a Seymour AV 120 (137.7” diag). I also have a small (27”) LCD in the room for music or tweaking. Room treatments are GIK and ATS panels. Seating is Berkline powered leather chairs in 2 rows (4 front, 3 back row on a 13” riser).

This is the 3rd GTG I’ve hosted and I have met some great people and had a fun and interesting day each time. There will be a combination of folks I know and new Forum members attending and I look forward to seeing all of you. The sharing of opinions is the value of this Forum so if you are attending please post your impressions here. Be as elaborate or brief as you like … all comments are appreciated. smile.gif

Cheers,
Rob

OK, PM's sent. Let me know if I missed anyone ... smile.gif )

Updated with new product demo info on 03-27
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post #2 of 50 Old 03-25-2014, 10:14 AM
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No way, Rob! You keep on rockin' those LCR's like a real man! Each with their own subs. biggrin.gifcool.gif

Rob, your system has always been pretty damn impressive and it just keeps getting better.

I didn't realize you were having a GTG so soon. I know I'm going to one in LA on the weekend of the 5th. Not sure if I have the endurance for two of those roadtrips in two weeks. tongue.gifredface.gif

How often will you have these? I'd love to see your system. smile.gif

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post #3 of 50 Old 03-25-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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No way, Rob! You keep on rockin' those LCR's like a real man! Each with their own subs. biggrin.gifcool.gif

Rob, your system has always been pretty damn impressive and it just keeps getting better.

I didn't realize you were having a GTG so soon. I know I'm going to one in LA on the weekend of the 5th. Not sure if I have the endurance for two of those roadtrips in two weeks. tongue.gifredface.gif

How often will you have these? I'd love to see your system. smile.gif

Hi Scott,

This will be my third GTG and they are usually based upon a new product demonstration. I will keep having them as long there is interest and It's fun. I enjoy meeting people who share this obsession with AV I have made some good friends as a result. You are welcome to come up for a demo most any weekend. Just PM me when you are ready and we'll get something on the books.

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post #4 of 50 Old 03-27-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, this is a nice surprise for the GTG. John Hamm (CEO of PONO Music) will be attending the GTG and is bringing an as yet unreleased PONO Player to demo to the group. This is a very cool addition to an already very cool GTG so I hope you all can make it. John is a bit time constrained and so if you want to hear the PONO get here by noon on Saturday!

I'm pumped! cool.gif

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post #5 of 50 Old 03-28-2014, 11:07 AM
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Me Too - this is an excellent addition to the GTG!

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post #6 of 50 Old 03-29-2014, 11:31 PM
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Thanks for inviting me as I got to see, and hear first hand another forum members setup, plus got to meet other great people. Your setup sounded great! I still can't believe that there were no subs under the 2nd row seating!
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post #7 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 07:54 AM
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Sorry I missed this event and the Ponoplayer looks very interesting. What we really all want to see is photos. wink.gif
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post #8 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 08:59 AM
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How did it go?
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post #9 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Jim,

Thanks for asking smile.gif. It was a great day (actually several for me) and your software was a highlight. The mystery guest that you helped arrange gave us a fascinating look at a new product that plays very well into what you do with JRiver. It was my fist experience with the software and I am going to be a user from this point on. Incredible power and configuration capability to do most, if not all of the things I was doing with an expensive hardware component (Rane RPM88 Multiprocessor) but with some additional capabilities that make it a no-brainer. Michael (desertdome) was a tremendous help in getting things setup and, he also gave a detailed presentation of JRiver to the group that was very well received. cool.gif
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post #10 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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This was my 3rd GTG hosting and I admit to feeling a little "self centered" for having people over to hear my room and equipment. It seems that current GTG's are more often product comparison meetings and as such. much more arduous for the host and sponsors. Just having people over to hear the system is easy and the group we had on Saturday was a nice cross section of folks that make hosting a GTG very pleasurable for me, Of course, this event was special due to our very poorly disguised mystery guest wink.gif and his presentation. For me it was a fascinating discussion and the product demo was even better. As to the other music and movies demos there was much to like save perhaps some excessive volume issues instigated by others tongue.gif.

So, the primary purpose of this GTG was the official unveiling of the new JTR 215RT speakers. The setup with the Rane processor was (due to some Windows comparability issues) challenging but once that was resolved the identity of these speakers became very apparent to me. I really have no bench mark for the sound I was hearing. Out of the box, with limited placement options and minimal EQ. we were able to get a beautiful flat frequency response across my entire front row (I will leave it to DD to comment on measurements). But not being a big on the graphs person, my concentration was on the listening experience and with the amazing lossless hi-rez source material we were fortunate to have on hand (thank you again Scott and Grant) the sound and sound stage and dynamics were huge. That big presentation was not at the expense of detail nor efficiency.The move up the MV levels was seamless right up to the point the sound overpowered the room ( Jaws theme music ...we gotta get a bigger room tongue.gif ). Yes ladies (there were 2 in attendance smile.gif ) and gentlemen, you can overpower a room with sound and we did that several (perhaps many) times during he afternoon. Although I still enjoy pushing the volume envelope, being somewhat elderly, the more controlled volumes provided the listening experience I most enjoy.

Full range speakers:

I have always wanted a pair of good full range speakers that could be run without the support of subwoofers. I had given up on that idea due to the trend in music and movies that have increased bass content and, because that true full range speakers under the price of a top tier luxury car (or a middle class home in Wichita wink.gif ) are rare as hens teeth. When Jeff was talking about the concept of a full range speaker I was very enthusiastic in my support of that idea. When he then designed the 215 and shared the details with me I was immediately hooked. So much so that without hearing them, I sold off a system that should have by most measures been my bucket list HT system. Turns out, my faith in Jeff's ability to pull this off was well founded. The 215RT's are exactly what I want in a speaker. A balanced presentation of bass, mid-range and highs with near limitless dynamic capability. It is the integration of the bass into the image source that impresses me the most. With music, the bass is just perfect and that usually that means compromise with movies. The 215RT's make the transition better than any speaker sub combination I have heard. I'm sure there are those who would not be happy with the bass levels because the 215's -3db point in my room is 15hz but for me. that limitation is not a problem. For those who feel the need for <15hz playback they will need to look elsewhere or, supplement the 215RT's with bottom dwelling subwoofers.

I'm not going to attempt to use audiophile descriptions of the listening experience as that's not that way I think. I can only say that these speakers have exceeded my expectations and have allowed my to achieve my goals for 2 channel listening and movies without separate subwoofers. I hope any of you who who are interested in the 215RT's can get a demo because that direct experience is much more important than any written words. I for one will open my HT to demos for anyone who is interested so that you can hear for yourself.

GTG photos:

Some of the group:



Mystery guest with mystery device:


Charming old fella tongue.gif trying to figure out an IPAD App:


A teaching moment for Michael (desertdome):


Stars of the show:


Solo Shot of the 215RT making my 138" screen look tiny:
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post #11 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 08:31 PM
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Looks like it was a great time. I've been reading about the music player, how did that all go?
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post #12 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 10:14 PM
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Looks like it was a great time. I've been reading about the music player, how did that all go?

It sounded better than any recording I have ever heard!

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Is this Pono the same device Neil Young was promoting?
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post #14 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 11:10 PM
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Is this Pono the same device Neil Young was promoting?

Yes.

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post #15 of 50 Old 03-30-2014, 11:23 PM
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Looks like it's doing well on kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music

I remember when Neil was pushing this then heard nothing until now. Think it was over a year ago Neil had a player with him on Letterman....

I thought it was an mp3 alternative more than anything, but hadn't really looked into it....what can you tell us about it since from the gtg?
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post #16 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 01:29 AM
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Thanks for your impression on jriver, pono player, and mostly those 215RT. Looks like you guys had fun. I like the floor planning and setup of your room Rob. So does my wife. I can't wait to hear a demo of the 215RT at the exhibit. Funny thing about my wife though.. Remember I wanted those dual OS so bad. And after building a model of of it my wife didn't like it because of the size? So then we ended up with the S2's. I even had to spread out the subs around the HT room because she didn't like them the way it looked co- located. Now, after seeing pictures of your 215's, she can't wait to hear them. I even explained that it was 6 feet tall and almost 23" deep. She still thinks the speakers looks gorgeous.. Huh?
Anyway again thanks for your impressions and pictures.
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post #17 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Looks like it was a great time. I've been reading about the music player, how did that all go?

It was great day and both the content and device sounded great. Jeff did a super job with the Rane and Michael (desertdome) basically duplicated most of that with the JRiver. The LG got some compliments as well with it's seemingly unlimited headroom. You're gonna love the 215's ... cool.gif
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Looks like it's doing well on kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music

I remember when Neil was pushing this then heard nothing until now. Think it was over a year ago Neil had a player with him on Letterman....

I thought it was an mp3 alternative more than anything, but hadn't really looked into it....what can you tell us about it since from the gtg?

It is really all about the music. The player is just the vehicle. Spend some time on the website and you will understand. I ordered a signature player and can't wait to get it. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Thanks for your impression on jriver, pono player, and mostly those 215RT. Looks like you guys had fun. I like the floor planning and setup of your room Rob. So does my wife. I can't wait to hear a demo of the 215RT at the exhibit. Funny thing about my wife though.. Remember I wanted those dual OS so bad. And after building a model of of it my wife didn't like it because of the size? So then we ended up with the S2's. I even had to spread out the subs around the HT room because she didn't like them the way it looked co- located. Now, after seeing pictures of your 215's, she can't wait to hear them. I even explained that it was 6 feet tall and almost 23" deep. She still thinks the speakers looks gorgeous.. Huh?
Anyway again thanks for your impressions and pictures.

Yes, it was fun. smile.gif While the OS's are a very special subwoofer, your 4 S2's give up nothing and actually would be a better match for the 215RT's. You could low pass them at say 30hz and let the 215RT's handle the rest. That would be an interesting setup and the 215RT's wouldn't need as much power if only playing to 30hz or so.

Seems like the 210RT's might be a better fit for you but I agree with your wife about the look of the 215RT's. It is the only JTR speaker I've owned that I wish wasn't covered up by the screen and they look even better in person IMHO. Of course the sound is the thing and that will blow you away ... They are magical with a good 2 channel source and are simply above and beyond anything I have heard smile.gif



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post #18 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 09:08 AM
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This was my 3rd GTG hosting and I admit to feeling a little "self centered" for having people over to hear my room and equipment. It seems that current GTG's are more often product comparison meetings and as such. much more arduous for the host and sponsors. Just having people over to hear the system is easy and the group we had on Saturday was a nice cross section of folks that make hosting a GTG very pleasurable for me, Of course, this event was special due to our very poorly disguised mystery guest wink.gif and his presentation. For me it was a fascinating discussion and the product demo was even better. As to the other music and movies demos there was much to like save perhaps some excessive volume issues instigated by others tongue.gif.

So, the primary purpose of this GTG was the official unveiling of the new JTR 215RT speakers. The setup with the Rane processor was (due to some Windows comparability issues) challenging but once that was resolved the identity of these speakers became very apparent to me. I really have no bench mark for the sound I was hearing. Out of the box, with limited placement options and minimal EQ. we were able to get a beautiful flat frequency response across my entire front row (I will leave it to DD to comment on measurements). But not being a big on the graphs person, my concentration was on the listening experience and with the amazing lossless hi-rez source material we were fortunate to have on hand (thank you again Scott and Grant) the sound and sound stage and dynamics were huge. That big presentation was not at the expense of detail nor efficiency.The move up the MV levels was seamless right up to the point the sound overpowered the room ( Jaws theme music ...we gotta get a bigger room tongue.gif ). Yes ladies (there were 2 in attendance smile.gif ) and gentlemen, you can overpower a room with sound and we did that several (perhaps many) times during he afternoon. Although I still enjoy pushing the volume envelope, being somewhat elderly, the more controlled volumes provided the listening experience I most enjoy.

Full range speakers:

I have always wanted a pair of good full range speakers that could be run without the support of subwoofers. I had given up on that idea due to the trend in music and movies that have increased bass content and, because that true full range speakers under the price of a top tier luxury car (or a middle class home in Wichita wink.gif ) are rare as hens teeth. When Jeff was talking about the concept of a full range speaker I was very enthusiastic in my support of that idea. When he then designed the 215 and shared the details with me I was immediately hooked. So much so that without hearing them, I sold off a system that should have by most measures been my bucket list HT system. Turns out, my faith in Jeff's ability to pull this off was well founded. The 215RT's are exactly what I want in a speaker. A balanced presentation of bass, mid-range and highs with near limitless dynamic capability. It is the integration of the bass into the image source that impresses me the most. With music, the bass is just perfect and that usually that means compromise with movies. The 215RT's make the transition better than any speaker sub combination I have heard. I'm sure there are those who would not be happy with the bass levels because the 215's -3db point in my room is 15hz but for me. that limitation is not a problem. For those who feel the need for <15hz playback they will need to look elsewhere or, supplement the 215RT's with bottom dwelling subwoofers.

I'm not going to attempt to use audiophile descriptions of the listening experience as that's not that way I think. I can only say that these speakers have exceeded my expectations and have allowed my to achieve my goals for 2 channel listening and movies without separate subwoofers. I hope any of you who who are interested in the 215RT's can get a demo because that direct experience is much more important than any written words. I for one will open my HT to demos for anyone who is interested so that you can hear for yourself.

Rob, you hosted an AWESOME GTG - it was a pleasure meeting all & enjoying the experience of your theater with the 215RTs. I concur with your assessment of their performance - I seriously can't believe how good the bass sounded. I never once found myself wanting for more bass and the integration of the bass into the front soundstage was impeccable exactly how I think 2 channel audio should sound. Jeff & Michael (DD) did a wonderful job of measuring and setting up the system and although you did have the mystery guest my highlight was meeting and talking to Jeff, just a great guy that is dedicated to providing a fantastic range of speakers at affordable prices. I believe the 215RTs are going to be a big hit.
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post #19 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 12:38 PM
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It is really all about the music. The player is just the vehicle. Spend some time on the website and you will understand. I ordered a signature player and can't wait to get it.

Thanks RMK, but what I didn't see on the website was just was the source of the music? Is this something that enables you to record from your current collection for playback on the run or is it a new player for a new source of music in your home where content needs to be purchased all over again from Pono? I'm assuming its both but more of the latter and am curious what they said about the library available in this format and at what level of the original recording they step in and obtain the "original"....

I would have come to find out for myself but I moved from the SF Bay Area a few months ago...

I would have loved to have seen your setup!
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post #20 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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It is really all about the music. The player is just the vehicle. Spend some time on the website and you will understand. I ordered a signature player and can't wait to get it.

Thanks RMK, but what I didn't see on the website was just was the source of the music? Is this something that enables you to record from your current collection for playback on the run or is it a new player for a new source of music in your home where content needs to be purchased all over again from Pono? I'm assuming its both but more of the latter and am curious what they said about the library available in this format and at what level of the original recording they step in and obtain the "original"....

I would have come to find out for myself but I moved from the SF Bay Area a few months ago...

I would have loved to have seen your setup!


Moving out of the Bay Area is usually a one way trip. Did it myself ... tongue.gif

PONO is a Music Store and a Player. Neither are open for business yet hence the Kickstarter funding site. The PONO music site will only offer hi-resolution music and they try to obtain the best available copy for each title. The PONO player will play most if not all of the standard formats including (god forbid) MP3. smile.gif. The sound was amazing ... cool.gif
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post #21 of 50 Old 03-31-2014, 01:02 PM
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Thanks, that's what I was thinking but didn't look closely enough. I do wonder if they'll be able to make reasonable deals for access to the original recordings at their scale but maybe that's where Neil Young and his connections come in.

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post #22 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I was really hoping for more subjective opinions from the attendees even if you didn't like what you heard ... smile.gif I know it is difficult to assess something new, in a different room and hearing unfamiliar material, but perhaps just a quick take would be possible ?

Thanks smile.gif
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post #23 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I was really hoping for more subjective opinions from the attendees even if you didn't like what you heard ... smile.gif I know it is difficult to assess something new, in a different room and hearing unfamiliar material, but perhaps just a quick take would be possible ?

Thanks smile.gif

Rob, what are your initial impressions when comparing 3 of these towers vs 2 shifters?

What's different/better/worse that you've noticed so far?
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post #24 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I was really hoping for more subjective opinions from the attendees even if you didn't like what you heard ... smile.gif I know it is difficult to assess something new, in a different room and hearing unfamiliar material, but perhaps just a quick take would be possible ?

Thanks smile.gif

I loved the way it sounded... I did notice a little buzz sound when I was sitting in one of the chairs to the left of the seating (I only heard it during one of the songs demoed though). The sound in general was very clear, and covered the whole frequency range very well. There was one song we heard that when it was cranking sounded a little congested or shrill in the vocals (it was a song with several female vocalists, and very well could have been the recording). Other than that I thought they did very well (and that is getting picky). Thanks again for the opportunity to hear this setup. smile.gif

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post #25 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Rob, what are your initial impressions when comparing 3 of these towers vs 2 shifters?

What's different/better/worse that you've noticed so far?

Hi Luke, you should come by for a listen next time you are out here on business and judge for yourself.

I posted som e thoughts in the JTR Speaker Thread but to summarize, the OS's have a bit more tactile slam but the 215RT sound cleaner with less boom and overhang. Those are issues that can be probably be addressed by EQ and DSP) but I never was able to get it exactly right especially for music.

I have to say that for my money, the 215RT's are the way to go.
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post #26 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 01:14 PM
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I don't think I have anything highly enlightening to say about the experience.
The speakers sounded fantastic, but that was no shock. Certainly, I did not find them lacking for anything.
Then again, the last time I heard Rob's system, I did not find anything lacking there either. That was a couple upgrades ago.
I am highly skeptical of Rob's claim that he is finally "done" with speakers.
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post #27 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think I have anything highly enlightening to say about the experience.
The speakers sounded fantastic, but that was no shock. Certainly, I did not find them lacking for anything.
Then again, the last time I heard Rob's system, I did not find anything lacking there either. That was a couple upgrades ago.
I am highly skeptical of Rob's claim that he is finally "done" with speakers.

I appreciate your candor Duc and would agree there wasn't anything lacking two upgrades ago. It's all about keeping the economy moving ... tongue.gifsmile.gif
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post #28 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 03:55 PM
 
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RMK,
Thank you for hosting a great event. The system, and size of those speakers, was impressive. I think they had great dynamic range and excellent bass response. It has been a while since I have listened to an audio system at those volume levels.

Who is hosting the next Nor Cal HT GTG? I know from talking to a number of the attendees that there are some impressive systems out there and I am getting used to this every other month schedule. smile.gif
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post #29 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JSKMDWK View Post

RMK,
Thank you for hosting a great event. The system, and size of those speakers, was impressive. I think they had great dynamic range and excellent bass response. It has been a while since I have listened to an audio system at those volume levels.

Who is hosting the next Nor Cal HT GTG? I know from talking to a number of the attendees that there are some impressive systems out there and I am getting used to this every other month schedule. smile.gif

Agreed, and count me in. I'm really bummed that I missed this last GTG, and it's a travesty that more people didn't get to appreciate RMK's 215 setup (including me biggrin.gif). If everyone pitches in food and brings gear, I'm sure we can relieve the host from most of the responsibility. The next one should be the GTG to end all GTG. Another shootout would be even better. 215rt vs 212ht, pro amp vs consumer amp, LG vs others, etc. And of course the ultimate dream face off, 215rt vs catalyst 12c eek.gif These keep getting better, so might as well make it a memorable!
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post #30 of 50 Old 04-03-2014, 06:24 PM
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Okay Rob, here goes ...

I was the first to arrive and after greeting Rob and Desertdome downstairs, I made my way upstairs and into the HT room. I handed DD a USB key with a variety of music I put together the night before, both CDres & HiRes. We started with some cuts I am very familiar with and I was starting to grin. Big, effortless & clean! I knew that this was going to be fun. cool.gif

We moved on to a drum cut in 16/44 that on a good system, will cause your eyes to twitch on the snare shots. Massive involuntary eye twitching! Huge dynamic range! We played a 24/96 rip (from vinyl) of the Jim Keltner drum solo from a Sheffield direct-to-disc recording. Absolutely stunning.

With the HiRes material I brought, it just got even better. More detail, more realism, more musical in every way. I cherry picked cuts from my collection that demonstrate stunning bass and man did the 215's impress! I was coming to the conclusion that Rob really doesn't need subs with these towers.

Jeff has hit it "out of the park" with this design and I will likely be getting a pair of the 210RT's for my two channel setup. I do not have enough room to consider the big ones, but if I did, I would have to try them. I am a high sensitivity fan and these are a tremendous value. My theater is a small bedroom with a 60" Kuro and 5 of Jeff's T12's. With an Audio Control Savoy amp and a Submersive, I know something about immersive, powerful sound. With Rob's room and setup, the performance envelope is much higher, and makes me wish for a larger room.

The session with John and that PONO player was motivating enough that I ordered it on their Kickstarter page. I will be steering as many people as I can to this device as a great, affordable entry to real musical quality.

Desertdome gave us an all-to-brief run through of the staggering capabilities of J. River's Media Center. I have been using it for two years on my PC's and now, my MacBook Pro. I now see that I have barely scratched the surface of it's capabilities. eek.gif

Thanks to Jeff for making this level of performance and build quality available at such reachable prices!

Thanks to Michael for showing me how capable Media Center really is!

Thanks to you, Rob for being such a great host and for being such an asset to this forum!

Grant
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