February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 1400 Old 04-08-2017, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I have 4 subs and experimented with a 2D DBA on the floor. I figured it would be fun to try and should cancel length and width modes, but not height.



It didn't work at all. Later, I figured out that I hadn't done the delay right, so it wasn't really a valid test. So, my test tells us nothing.



Some people in that thread tried it with good results. Keep in mind that the SBA requires a TON of acoustical treatment.



The bad news with SBA, DBA, or any 1/4 3/4 placement scheme is that you get no room gain. In other words, not much output, especially down low. You get the anechoic response from the subs. If you have tons of power and low frequency extension, this is good, but not if you'd benefit from some room gain and more low frequency extension.



I got the best results with 4 corner placement. Lots of room gain. It cancels out most of the room modes, but not all. Good seat to seat consistency, but not perfect. As long as you don't have problems with nulls, you should be able to use EQ to fix the frequency response.



1/4 3/4 placement needs less EQ, but you get also much less output. Try them both, and see what you think. Also, check out the REW room simulator. It's pretty helpful if you have a closed, rectangular room, and it's free.


Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear the DBA didn't work out for you. I wonder if 4 corner placement (or similar) is more foolproof and easier to implement for most people

I was under the impression that SBA/DBA required less treatment (other than the large bass trap in the back) due to the inherent nature of canceling most of the room modes. In my particular room, I have about 12-16" of depth to work with at the back of the room before I would have to push the front row of seats close to the center of the room, which I want to avoid. Although, I wonder with an effective SBA, I wonder if that would be less of an issue.

I am planning on using 4 B&C 21DS115's in LLT's, which should be enough output and extension to offset the loss of room gain.

I tried doing the room simulator for my closed rectangular room, but admittedly am not the best at interpreting the results.

Thankfully, I'll have the ability to move the subs around and measure to determine what is best in the room. Regardless of the arrangement, I'll be able to put 4 21's behind the screen wall, and either a large bass trap or smaller balancing subs in the back. Small subs would be essentially hidden, and would keep the back wall open making the room look and feel bigger. So, ultimately I'm sure I'll be happy, it just might take some trial and error to make it right. It'd just be nice to know what is more likely to be better for planning purposes since a large bass trap could alter seat placement, which affects a few other things.


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post #1382 of 1400 Old 04-08-2017, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I have my dual opposed subs setup in an SBA array and they do quite well for me this way. If you can see in my pic, they were tucked a little ways away from being perfectly in the 1/4 points but I had to compromise a little since the mains were sandwiched between them. Now that the JBL's are in and the sh50's are just sitting there.I have slid the stacks to the proper placement and yes, you do lose some gain. but the overall response is quite good. I do not have but 4"panels lining the back wall, but there is an additional 4" on the other side of a single sheet of sheetrock that likely also helps a little. Integrating the nearfield took a little work but it wasn't all that hard.


You have an enviable setup! I read through your build thread and am thinking about a nearfield sub similar to yours with only either a single HST-18 or PA460 in a ported box firing into my seat. These subs have different strengths (excursion and low extension vs efficiency and midbass) and I'm not sure which I would enjoy more, but I'm happy to hear you pulled it off with the SBA.
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post #1383 of 1400 Old 04-08-2017, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes. Just visited Mike's theater this past weekend. Very impressive.

mikela's SBA/Trinnov Theater Build


@mikela


Very impressive theater indeed!


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post #1384 of 1400 Old 04-08-2017, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yes. Just visited Mike's theater this past weekend. Very impressive.

mikela's SBA/Trinnov Theater Build


@mikela
Very cool!
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post #1385 of 1400 Old 04-08-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyK View Post
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear the DBA didn't work out for you. I wonder if 4 corner placement (or similar) is more foolproof and easier to implement for most people

I was under the impression that SBA/DBA required less treatment (other than the large bass trap in the back) due to the inherent nature of canceling most of the room modes. In my particular room, I have about 12-16" of depth to work with at the back of the room before I would have to push the front row of seats close to the center of the room, which I want to avoid. Although, I wonder with an effective SBA, I wonder if that would be less of an issue.

I am planning on using 4 B&C 21DS115's in LLT's, which should be enough output and extension to offset the loss of room gain.

I tried doing the room simulator for my closed rectangular room, but admittedly am not the best at interpreting the results.

Thankfully, I'll have the ability to move the subs around and measure to determine what is best in the room. Regardless of the arrangement, I'll be able to put 4 21's behind the screen wall, and either a large bass trap or smaller balancing subs in the back. Small subs would be essentially hidden, and would keep the back wall open making the room look and feel bigger. So, ultimately I'm sure I'll be happy, it just might take some trial and error to make it right. It'd just be nice to know what is more likely to be better for planning purposes since a large bass trap could alter seat placement, which affects a few other things.
Like I said, I don't think my experience tells us much. I just messed up the delay.
That's a good point about 4x 21" being enough.
I'm not sure how much acoustic treatment is enough for the back wall. I'm sure there are degrees of enough, rather than black and white.
With the REW room sim, you could arrange 4 subs up font, then set the back wall surface to be highly absorbent.
There is a trick to rotate the subs. I forgot what it was. Maybe control-click, or something like that.

With the back wall subs, for a DBA, the ideal is to use 4 matching subs with matching placement, although they don't need quite as much power.
You don't have to go the ideal route.
I'm sure you can have some back subs and/or some nearfield subs, and still get some of the benefits.
It's just good to understand that it's compromising some of the benefits.
I'd definitely recommend doing something about the lengthwise room modes. Either a proper DBA, massive treatment on the rear wall (SBA), or traditional real wall subs (time aligned & in phase, rather than the DBA approach w/delay and inverted phase).

Last edited by rcohen; 04-10-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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post #1386 of 1400 Old 04-10-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyK View Post
You have an enviable setup! I read through your build thread and am thinking about a nearfield sub similar to yours with only either a single HST-18 or PA460 in a ported box firing into my seat. These subs have different strengths (excursion and low extension vs efficiency and midbass) and I'm not sure which I would enjoy more, but I'm happy to hear you pulled it off with the SBA.
Will be looking forward to any progress! Thanks for the kind words.

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post #1387 of 1400 Old 05-17-2017, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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This meet was now three months ago - and some of the attendees still haven't posted up their reviews/thoughts.
I'll have to find time to call the slackers out by name later this week.
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post #1388 of 1400 Old 05-17-2017, 09:27 AM
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Guilty as charged!

I won't have much to add to what has already been said besides thanking the hosts and saying how much I appreciated being invited and being allowed to participate.
Unfortunately (for me), my participation was limited to Saturday morning to early afternoon while the wife and daughters visited IKEA. I went with group B.

First stop was Archaea's and as always was treated with a top notch setup (this was my 2nd visit). The JVC RS-600 loaner throw a great picture. This was my first experience with ATMOS. It was almost uncanny how realistic the overhead effect is and the overall sound in the room did not disappoint either. Archaea had gone all out in picking clips that both entertain, produce great sound and great picture, i.e. no small feat in itself. Thanks for hosting and organizing this great event!

After Archaea's we headed to Doug's for lunch. There were some issues with the media PC as I recall, but as has been stated before, the food was of course fantastic!

My last and final stop was over at Chldsplay's. This was the first time I visited his theater. It is a very well built and beautiful theater with fabric frames and a "secret" hidden door, really cool! We were treated to a number of great movie clips and everything looked and sounded great from the different seats I sat in.

Again, thanks all for having me, I got in late, like a day or two before, so perhaps only fitting that the review is late as well (nah, not really). Thanks to all the participants for chats, sharing of knowledge and so forth, makes these events so interesting.
Needless to say, I spent Sunday assembling IKEA furniture, I #*#&$* hate that store, but, at least I didn't have to trot through the darn thing this time.

Until next time!
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post #1389 of 1400 Old 05-17-2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
This meet was now three months ago - and some of the attendees still haven't posted up their reviews/thoughts.
I'll have to find time to call the slackers out by name later this week.
I know. That's pretty sad, yo. What gives?

Well... at least you know who to hand out the party favors to next time.

I miss you guys already.

Don't forget to add me on Steam if you haven't: Infrasonic07
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post #1390 of 1400 Old 05-18-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I know. That's pretty sad, yo. What gives?

Well... at least you know who to hand out the party favors to next time.

I miss you guys already.

Don't forget to add me on Steam if you haven't: Infrasonic07
I think you should just move here Scott. You could get a nice size theater room for more equipment as real estate is very reasonable.

On another note finally finished up my atmos install. So far really enjoying it.
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post #1391 of 1400 Old 05-18-2017, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I know. That's pretty sad, yo. What gives?

Well... at least you know who to hand out the party favors to next time.

I miss you guys already.

Don't forget to add me on Steam if you haven't: Infrasonic07
Friend invite sent.

This is me on steam if anyone else has an account and wants to be...friends.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/jvonengeln/

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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl
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Friend invite sent.

This is me on steam if anyone else has an account and wants to be...friends.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/jvonengeln/
sent you friend invite.
user name is bamidelejegede

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post #1393 of 1400 Old 05-22-2017, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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From Post 1329 --
February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl




It's demotion time for about 25% of you attendees...

3 months later and not one note? sigh...

Time to turn in your write up post! (even if brief)




@baniels

@desertdome

@dk-customs

@gsmotherman

@hellerbrewing

@ishmaela

@Jeff Permanian

@jreb14

@Mark Seaton

@Randy Bessinger

@sassuki

@sigma722 (no that mess of happy faces doesn't work)

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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl
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Stuff for sale this weekend if anyone has interest Pm me.

Rane AC22b Active Crossover $20; Dennis Murphy Affordable Accuracy Speakers (as new) $150; Emotiva Airmotiv 4 (original series) powered speakers $175; Audio Source EQ8/Series 2 graphic EQ and Spectrum Analyzer $20; Audio Control Richter Scale series 3 $75; Behringer Ultra Match model 200 sample rate and format converter jitter remover $10; also some surround headphone systems from Philips, Sony, and Sennheiser for garage sale prices.

Also have a Sony DAT deck player and an old reel to reel...not sure anyone intereted but PM if you are. Finally a friend has California Audio Lab processor 2500; Krell HTS 7.1 processor and Lexicon MC12B (doesn't power up) that he wants to sell. PM me and I will give you his email address or cell phone number if interested.

Randy
Do you still have the Audio Control Richter Scale?

Thanks

Merle
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post #1395 of 1400 Old 06-24-2017, 07:02 PM
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Do you still have the Audio Control Richter Scale?

Thanks

Merle
Yes, i do still have it
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post #1396 of 1400 Old 07-09-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
From Post 1329 --
February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl




It's demotion time for about 25% of you attendees...

3 months later and not one note? sigh...

Time to turn in your write up post! (even if brief)




@baniels

@desertdome

@dk-customs

@gsmotherman

@hellerbrewing

@ishmaela

@Jeff Permanian

@jreb14

@Mark Seaton

@Randy Bessinger

@sassuki

@sigma722 (no that mess of happy faces doesn't work)
Doesn't @desertdome need a new callsign like @Hig hMpaxAV?
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post #1397 of 1400 Old 08-08-2017, 07:09 PM
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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl

I'm so ashamed of myself. Thank you all for the hospitality. Your spaces are all awesome.

Last edited by sassuki; 08-08-2017 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Quoted the wrong post
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post #1398 of 1400 Old 08-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl

I am updating the original post in the IA Meet thread post 6440

Thought I would share the following which I posted earlier in the IA Meet thread. Hope everybody is doing well.

As promised...the following list is some of the stuff that I purchased too much of during my project, some the equipment purchased, I ended up going another direction. I don't want to derail the IA Meet thread with my items since we have some good dialog going in the thread right now. so please just PM me and I will get back to you as quick as I can. If you want pictures of something or more information, please just ask. I would love to get all you guys up to Mason City some time for a visit...I have really enjoyed getting to see many of your theaters over the years. Thanks for checking out some of this stuff!

Brad

Green Glue noiseproofing sealant $80.00 (12) unopened case (I used 19) (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs, deewan 2nd)

Green Glue noiseproofing compound $50.00 5 unopened tubes (I used 139!) (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs, deewan 2nd)

Linacoustic RC ½” x 100’ roll $150.00/each (3) unopened rolls

This isn’t new and may have some snags/tears in the outside layer (I just used that for my 1st layer as I doubled it up). Everything inside the roll was fine and it was easy to work with. FabricMate has this for sale right now for $265 plus shipping! (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs, MillerTimeISU 2nd, deewan 3rd Tebbiebear 4th)

Onkyo PR-SC885 processor $200.00 purchased used from AVS-SierraMikeBravo

Middle Atlantic custom rack shelf for Integra DHC9.9 would need slight modification to use w/PR-SC885

Sanway F-14000 amplifier $400.00 purchased used from AVS-Gorilla (I’ve never used) (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs)

Crest CA4 amplifier $200.00 purchased used from AVS-rboster (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs)

Crest CA6 amplifier $300.00 purchased used from AVS-rboster (ZLTFUL has 1st dibs)

Triad Rack Amp 250 $150.00 purchased used from Ebay-flav13

15” Color Touchpanel LCD $25.00 purchased used from Ebay-busyebabe

Middle Atlantic RM-KB-LCD17 $100.00 purchased used from Ebay-aem34 (this is a cool item!)

65” tall equipment rack $50.00 purchased used at Minneapolis auction (MillerTimeISU has 1st dibs)

76” tall equipment rack $50.00 purchased used at Minneapolis auction (MillerTimeISU has 1st dibs)

Middle Atlantic Slim 5 rack $100.00 purchased used from AVS-whiskey alpha (MillerTimeISU has 1st dibs)

Middle Atlantic PD-1020C $25.00 purchased used from Ebay-athomemarket

Lutron GRX-3104 Graffik Eye $200.00 purchased used from Ebay-

Carlon Blue ENT ¾” 100’ roll $15.00 purchased new from Ebay-deyoung (MillerTimeISU has 1st dibs, deewan 2nd)

Orange ENT approx. 20-25’ $25.00 purchased new from ? (MillerTimeISU has 1st dibs, deewan 2nd)

Dietrich 20ga channel free purchased new from Menards (I used 25 ga)

12’ x 84’ roll carpet free purchased new at liquidation auction black with multicolor floral print (very theater like) didn’t end up using has been in my garage on a shelf since April 2010

Elemental Designs A5-350 w/eq $250.00 purchased new from eD – used very little

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Last edited by BRAD S; 08-13-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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post #1399 of 1400 Old 09-23-2017, 05:41 PM
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Noesis 212HT crossovers updates have been finished and are now in the KC area. We developed the new crossovers in conjunction with the Noesis 212T so that they would integrate well together.
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post #1400 of 1400 Old 09-27-2017, 06:54 AM
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February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl

You guys are invited to our neighborhood BBQ competition Oct 6 and 7 in Lakewood. It's 2 blocks over from my house in the clubhouse parking lot. Since I have given the big FU to the American Royal, we do this little event now. It's much smaller, cheaper, and a whole lot less work. Friday is more of the party day where we cook and have a band at 7pm and enjoy some beers. It is different than the Royal because all of the cooking happens that night, so there won't be the standard Friday night feast to share until the next night. I'll have my standard setup of the Othorns and Mackie SRM450 out for music during the day til the band starts. We have a soccer game Saturday evening and I'm leaving early afternoon, so I won't see you if you decide to go then.

I was going to say that this would be a good time to set up the 212s with the new crossovers, but realized we can't put them on stands and I'd be afraid of getting them all smokey.
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Last edited by d_c; 09-27-2017 at 07:00 AM.
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