SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 724 Old 05-30-2017, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
@Marc Alexander , Have you already made up your mind to go with the sealed Seaton F18's or you are still in the shopping/audition mode? I assume these F18's will go in your main theater room where the PSA subs were? I would try a ported sub up there to do a one on one comparison with the F18 since you have a bunch of ported subs for the GTG plus IIRC, I don't think you ever experienced a ported sub up there in your theater.
The F18s will be the cornerstones for my media room upstairs. I will be experimenting with ported subs in combination with the F18s (I enjoy experimenting and I am thoroughly enjoying the FV18 and Cap118) Ultimately I believe it will be all sealed subs in there.

I've had tapped the minds of Mark Seaton, Brian Ding, Jim Farina, Nathan Funk, @mthomas47 , @dominguez1 and others. I have a pretty clear picture of my goals and how best to achieve them. My upstairs is best suited for sealed subs and downstairs for ported.
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post #32 of 724 Old 05-30-2017, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Guys, my wife is on-call June 4th and I've been informed that I have to take my son to a birthday party. We need to move to the following weekend.

June 10th (Sat) or 11th (Sun) from 11AM - until. Which date works best?

@Marc Alexander
@xcjago (JL F112)
@chucky7 (Cap1400)
@bulls (PSA V1801)
bummer i will actually be in SanDiego ... 9 - 13 ... i can come this weekend for testing...
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post #33 of 724 Old 05-31-2017, 05:13 AM
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@Marc Alexander , your upstairs theater is > 3000ft^3 right? Just curious why you think sealed subs are best there. I guess you are going to find out from experimenting with all of the subs you have for the GTG. Looking forward to see a report from you.

Last edited by tvuong; 05-31-2017 at 05:21 AM.
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post #34 of 724 Old 05-31-2017, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Mark Seaton will be shipping my F18s in time for the GTG. I figure that these will be perfect to compare to the ported 18s in the downstairs space. Both a single master and master+slave.
Hi Marc,

Check your e-mail, as you should already have tracking for the F18s which headed out to you yesterday.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #35 of 724 Old 05-31-2017, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
@Marc Alexander;, your upstairs theater is > 3000ft^3 right? Just curious why you think sealed subs are best there. I guess you are going to find out from experimenting with all of the subs you have for the GTG. Looking forward to see a report from you.
It is ~3020ft³: 14½'×24½'×8½'. I get substantial cabin vessel gain below 20Hz. I have been able to directly compare the ported subs in the den (no room gain below 15Hz) to the PSA S3000i. My observations coincide with predictions Mark Seaton made before I even received the FV18 & Cap118. My goal for this room is strong single digit extension w/low distortion.

Why sealed? The ports' output is simply not as accurate/detailed as the driver. With the variable tune Rythmik FV18 the SQ noticeably increases as you plug ports, moving the tuning frequency from 16Hz to 12.5Hz to 10Hz. The output with the 10Hz tune is not much different than a sealed sub though. There are also other potential port noises like chuffing and pipe resonance. The slot ports of Cap118 & MFW-15T (slotted & flared) can be pushed much harder than the Rythmik FV18 before port noises become audible. Facing the Rythmik away from the MLP masks much of the port noises but will reduce the tactile impact when placing nearfield. Its all fun to experiment with but not what I want to deal with upstairs.

I think my two rooms are great examples of properly matching subs to the room. The downstairs den is open concept on concrete. I also had a lower budget for this room. Dual MFW-15 Turbos nearfield (<$2k) are great fits for the room. It will be interesting to see how the Seaton F18s compare in this room as I can place them nearfield directly behind the seats. The F18s are way over my budget for the room though. <

My upstairs media room is sealed and on a raised platform floor. Unfortunately it is rather narrow. I was using four PSA subs but wanted MORE output below 25Hz with lower distortion. While PSA provides some measurements down to 10Hz, below 16Hz is not a consideration during their design process. Seaton, JTR, and Funk seem to be best inline with my goals.

The Seaton F18s and JTR S1 &amp; S2 subs are a manageble 18&quot; deep (I looked at several pre-owned JTR S2s before finalizing on the Seatons). All of the ported options are much deeper. The upcoming Rythmik F18 & F28 will have the same footprint as the FV18 & FV25 so too deep for my needs. Brian D. and I explored some DIY options but in the end F18+ system makes more sense. The flexibility of the F18+ system is what makes it so attractive to me. I am also going to be utilizing a pair of Funk custom DO 12s nearfield (also shipping this week) which perform similarly to 18.0Cs but with more low-end. If I desire even MOAR I can just add 2 more F18 slaves or even another master. So, while ported may give me good bang-for-buck sealed is the best solution fit.

BTW, the only reason I am able to have so many quality subs is the WAF. Master the WAF and the sky is the limit! I only want 25% of what @raynist has achieved in his home!
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Last edited by Marc Alexander; 05-31-2017 at 11:16 AM.
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post #36 of 724 Old 05-31-2017, 04:13 PM
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^^ cool, you did your homework it seems. I do not hear port noise with my FV15 pair using them in 1 port mode in my ~2400ft^3 sealed room at my normal -15MV with +12 bass hot. For demo, I had them over reference bass and there was only the pulse server scene that made them chuff. There is only about 1% of the movie out there that makes my subs chuff but only above reference level which is way above my normal listening level. I doubt a pair of FV18 would chuff in your theater room at your normal listening level or even at reference or above level.
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post #37 of 724 Old 06-04-2017, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, Jeff P and Josh R are not going to be able to make it. I believe we will have a rep from LA Sound Panels on hand.

However Jeff P, Mark S, and Brian D have ensured thay we have all plenty of options to compare. The Seaton F18s and 1 of 2 of the Funk DO 12s will be delivered tomorrow!

I will be picking up @bulls V1801 this week so we will have it for the 10th and 17th! I am just waiting on the Dayton EMM-6 from Herb @ CSL to do the outdoor CEA-2010 testing.

I do need help with the movie and music playlists so please start making suggestions.
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post #38 of 724 Old 06-04-2017, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What scenes are notorious for causing ported subs to chuff?

I can evaluate port noise thresholds with CEA burst tones but these noises are often masked by the rest of the soundtrack. I've also observed that pointing the port away from the listening position reduces the audibility of port noises (as well as reducing the tactile effects unfortunately) .
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post #39 of 724 Old 06-05-2017, 02:58 AM
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Movie chuffing scenes, off the top of my head:

Edge of Tomorrow - First 40 Seconds
Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument Scene
World War Z - Grenade
Pulse - Control Room

Music playlist:

Bassotronics - Bass I Love You
Justin Bieber - Baby
Eagles - Hotel California in Melbourne

Panasonic TC-P55UT50
Pioneer SC-1222-K
Polk Audio LSiM703 / LSiM706c / RTiA3
JTR Captivator 1400

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post #40 of 724 Old 06-05-2017, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Cross-post from the Seaton Submersive thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Master/Slave F18+ pair in black oak are now in the house! These will ultimately be going upstairs into my dedicated media room. For now they are in the open concept downstairs den. They are definitely more subwoofer than furniture but I love the modular design and they would even work well behind the seats in my den. Hopefully they don't shame MFWs!

I hosting GTGs on June 10 & 17 and performing CEA-2010 groundplane measurements starting June 9. The F18s will be the sealed reference sub (master and master+slave) to compare vs single ported 18s as well as my resident dual MFW-15 Turbos.

Rythmik FV18
PSA V1801
JTR Cap 118
JTR Cap 1400 (2015)

SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet

I am planning to measure the PSA S3000i and hopefully a Submersive HP as well. With the JTR measurements, we should have a reference for comparison to data-bass.com .

Sorry for the poor phone pics. I love the look of the carbon fiber driver which matches my Mirage OMDs. My son turns 4 in a few weeks, but I think these need to run grills off! 😎
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post #41 of 724 Old 06-05-2017, 10:33 PM
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Hey Marc, let me know if you already have a line on a SubM. If not, I have one that I can bring on the 10th.

chris

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HT: Samsung 52ALN650 | Martin Logan Motion Series 15s/20s/30 | Seaton Submersive | Denon X4100W | PlayStation 4 | Xbox360
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post #42 of 724 Old 06-06-2017, 07:32 AM
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I suspect that Marc expected me to bring my experimental, non-production Sub-M. (I live in Corona also) To complicate things my L & R Catalysts are Industrial Velcroed to the top and would be at the least very difficult to remove and get down the stairs.
I run ALL my Seatons on 240VAC (The SubMs' amps are auto ranging, so that would not have been a problem)

Note: Mark chose to go a different path (Master / Slave)

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post #43 of 724 Old 06-07-2017, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrazenC5 View Post
Hey Marc, let me know if you already have a line on a SubM. If not, I have one that I can bring on the 10th.

chris

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Yes, that would be wonderful if you could bring a Submersive HP! Do you also have a slave?
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post #44 of 724 Old 06-07-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Yes, that would be wonderful if you could bring a Submersive HP! Do you also have a slave?
No, its the previous 2400W standalone SubM. If you're looking to test/listen on only the latest production, let me know.

HT: Samsung 52ALN650 | Martin Logan Motion Series 15s/20s/30 | Seaton Submersive | Denon X4100W | PlayStation 4 | Xbox360
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post #45 of 724 Old 06-07-2017, 02:28 PM
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Doesn't everyone ?

like you didn't suspect this would happen . . .
Attached Thumbnails
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DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #46 of 724 Old 06-07-2017, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrazenC5 View Post
No, its the previous 2400W standalone SubM. If you're looking to test/listen on only the latest production, let me know.
That will be just fine!
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post #47 of 724 Old 06-09-2017, 07:39 AM
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That will be just fine!
Marc, sent you a PM.



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post #48 of 724 Old 06-09-2017, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Marc, sent you a PM.
Please resend. I did not receive.
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post #49 of 724 Old 06-09-2017, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Doesn't everyone ?
Please leave your Mr. Slave at home freak!
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post #50 of 724 Old 06-09-2017, 08:52 AM
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Please resend. I did not receive.
Just re-sent.

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post #51 of 724 Old 06-09-2017, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The calibrated Dayton EMM-6 and Audyssey Pro mics were delivered today (had to be rush shipped from CSL).

I spent the last daylight hours getting the mics and Yamaha MG10XU working properly with REW. It is finally working so I hope to start testing subs outdoors first thing in the morning.

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post #52 of 724 Old 06-10-2017, 10:11 AM
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Nasty drizzle in garden grove, prefer not to deliver today. Can i deliver on Sunday or any day during the week?

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
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www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #53 of 724 Old 06-10-2017, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Nasty drizzle in garden grove, prefer not to deliver today. Can i deliver on Sunday or any day during the week?
Yep. No problem. Maybe it will burn off in time?
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post #54 of 724 Old 06-10-2017, 08:59 PM
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Looks like fun.

Klipsch RF-82II, RC-62II
2x Dayton Ultimax 12, Behringer iNUKE3000DSP
Denon 2113ci
New Theater Under Construction
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post #55 of 724 Old 06-11-2017, 03:08 AM
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Marc doing the CEA 2010



JL F112





Seaton Submersive 2400W version



Seaton Sound Submersive and JL F112



PSA S3000i



JTR Captivator 118HT: Thank you, Jeff!!!



Rythmik FV18: Thank you, Brian!!!



Rythmik FV18 aluminum driver, no dust cover. I think it's rather special. Rubber surround.



Rythmik FV18 amp plate



JTR Captivator 1400, foam surround



JTR Cap 118HT, accordion paper surround



PSA V1801 next to JTR Captivator 1400. PSA V1801's cabinet is relatively small, only about 3/4 the size of JTR Cap 1400/118HT.



PSA's standard finish, pride and joy of Tom. I like it, too.



Seaton Sound F18, carbon fiber cone.




Panasonic TC-P55UT50
Pioneer SC-1222-K
Polk Audio LSiM703 / LSiM706c / RTiA3
JTR Captivator 1400

Last edited by chucky7; 06-11-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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post #56 of 724 Old 06-11-2017, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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We were able to get the Submersive, JL F113, & FV18* tested. In the middle of the Captivator 118 testing it got too windy so we went inside and played clips.

Most impressive to me? Easily the Cap 1400 and F18+!

@chucky7 is going to help me with more outdoor testing this morning. @asarose247 will drop off his DIY creation as well today.

*I have to speak to Brian Ding about the FV18 as there were some problems outdoors amd indoors.
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post #57 of 724 Old 06-11-2017, 06:19 AM
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Awesome job guys! Can't wait to hear all the results. Great job with the pictures Chucky7!!


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post #58 of 724 Old 06-11-2017, 09:29 AM
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Good times yesterday. Just a slight correction, the JL sub I brought was the F112, 12" model, not the 13".
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post #59 of 724 Old 06-12-2017, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
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*I have to speak to Brian Ding about the FV18 as there were some problems outdoors amd indoors.
What were the problems?
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post #60 of 724 Old 06-12-2017, 01:42 PM
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Just seeing the pics of the wings, beer, subs, and cars in the cul de sac makes me wish I was able to hang out! Subscribed! Keep it up Marc! Maybe some videos of the party....I mean sub testing!

Theater: Sony 45es, 120 inch 16:9 screen, Panny BDT500, Rotel RMB-1075, Rotel RSP-1068, Klipsch RP-280F, RP-450C, RP-160M, SVS PB13 x 2, Monster Power Conditioner, GIK acoustic panels

TV Room: Panasonic 60" plasma, Integra DTR-30.3, Axiom Audio M60, VP150, QS8, EP500
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