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SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet

74K views 727 replies 64 participants last post by  imureh 
#1 · (Edited)
SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer GTG
June 17th, 11AM - until whenever. PM for address & gate code.

CEA-2010 testing - June 10th, 11th & 17th
Room EQ Wizard w/CSL calibrated Dayton EMM-6 Microphone.
I would like to have most if not all CEA testing done prior to the GTG. We will be able to use JTR Cap 1400 (2015) & 118 to correlate data to data-bass.com. Please PM me if you have a sub you would like to bring for ground plane testing

My downstairs is an open concept. The Den is directly adjacent the Breakfast/Kitchen Areas with large openings to an Office, Dining & Living Rooms and all of upstairs. I feel like it is the perfect space to evaluate ported subs. I have a 32" wide threshold ramp and the narrowest entry is 44" wide for wheeling subs in and out.

In this space I currently run dual Seaton Sound MFW-15 Turbos which can be described as smaller, 15" versions of the JTR Captivator 1400. We should have no problem pushing the limits of these single ported 18" ID offerings:

JTR provided Captivator 118
Captivator 1400 (2015) - @chucky7
PSA V1801 - @bulls @Pulloutchamp (backup)
@Rythmik provided FV18

DIY
@Peterc613 (Danley DTS-10)
@asarose247 (DIY)

Unfortunately, while HSU is local they have no plans to release a 18" sub.

I am of the belief that the room affects listening much more than sub brand. However, in my limited testing of the Seaton MFW-15, PSA S1500 & S3000i their characteristics at the limit can drastically differ. I am going review past GTGs for scorecards for grading each ported system. I also plan to provide a very capable sealed system for level-matched, blind A/B testing of ported vs sealed in the downstairs Den.

My upstairs media room is a work in progress. I have bass-traps & acoustic panels currently in production by lasoundpanels.com. It may very well be complete by the 17th. I should be able have a MFW-15 Turbo upstairs to compare the sound in the two rooms.

I will be updating the thread with pictures and measurements over time. I am wide open to all suggestions.

I'm hoping attendees are willing to contribute $5 to offset the cost of catering.

I am inviting the following insiders to attend the GTG:
@Jeff Permanian @Ricci
LA Sound Panels
 
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#2 · (Edited)
#6 ·
Any interest in testing a bic f-12.....?

Data bass has the pl-200.......


Lots of questions on this sub as it is about the best value for 200 bucks.

I recomend it over the pl-200, I have both and feel it is a better value, but it would be nice to give some numbers and facts.

Rather than it sounds close....LOL
 
#16 ·
The official GTG has been changed to the 17th. All are welcome to come on the 4th for a preview and/or to get your sub tested. I will add the 4th to the attendance list.

All, please let me know if you plan to come on the 4th, 17th, or both. Remind me if you don't see your name on the list in post 2.
 
#18 ·
Marc Alexander

I will definitely be there on June 4th and 17th. Let me know the other dates you need me to bring my Cap 1400!

This is fun!!!
 
#24 ·
The JTR Cap 118 arrived yesterday!

Mark Seaton will be shipping my F18s in time for the GTG. I figure that these will be perfect to compare to the ported 18s in the downstairs space. Both a single master and master+slave.

Other sealed subwoofers potentially on hand:
Paradigm Sub2!
Seaton Submersive HP
PSA S3000i
Funk Audio custom Dual-opposed 12s

I will also have the Behringer B1200d-PROs available for those who want to experience nearfield MBMs.
 
#29 ·
The FV18 and Cap 118 are in the house! I've located what seems to be the best place for a single sub for both the den and kitchen/breakfast room. I'm just waiting on the mics from CSL to start the outdoor CEA-2010 testing. Please excuse the mess, it will be clean for the GTG.



The PSA S3000i as well as two S1500s are for sale BTW. Have to make space for the incoming Seaton F18s.
 
#30 ·
@Marc Alexander, Have you already made up your mind to go with the sealed Seaton F18's or you are still in the shopping/audition mode? I assume these F18's will go in your main theater room where the PSA subs were? I would try a ported sub up there to do a one on one comparison with the F18 since you have a bunch of ported subs for the GTG plus IIRC, I don't think you ever experienced a ported sub up there in your theater.
 
#31 ·
The F18s will be the cornerstones for my media room upstairs. I will be experimenting with ported subs in combination with the F18s (I enjoy experimenting and I am thoroughly enjoying the FV18 and Cap118) Ultimately I believe it will be all sealed subs in there.

I've had tapped the minds of Mark Seaton, Brian Ding, Jim Farina, Nathan Funk, @mthomas47 , @dominguez1 and others. I have a pretty clear picture of my goals and how best to achieve them. My upstairs is best suited for sealed subs and downstairs for ported.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Marc Alexander, your upstairs theater is > 3000ft^3 right? Just curious why you think sealed subs are best there. I guess you are going to find out from experimenting with all of the subs you have for the GTG. Looking forward to see a report from you.
It is ~3020ft³: 14½'×24½'×8½'. I get substantial cabin vessel gain below 20Hz. I have been able to directly compare the ported subs in the den (no room gain below 15Hz) to the PSA S3000i. My observations coincide with predictions Mark Seaton made before I even received the FV18 & Cap118. My goal for this room is strong single digit extension w/low distortion.

Why sealed? The ports' output is simply not as accurate/detailed as the driver. With the variable tune Rythmik FV18 the SQ noticeably increases as you plug ports, moving the tuning frequency from 16Hz to 12.5Hz to 10Hz. The output with the 10Hz tune is not much different than a sealed sub though. There are also other potential port noises like chuffing and pipe resonance. The slot ports of Cap118 & MFW-15T (slotted & flared) can be pushed much harder than the Rythmik FV18 before port noises become audible. Facing the Rythmik away from the MLP masks much of the port noises but will reduce the tactile impact when placing nearfield. Its all fun to experiment with but not what I want to deal with upstairs.

I think my two rooms are great examples of properly matching subs to the room. The downstairs den is open concept on concrete. I also had a lower budget for this room. Dual MFW-15 Turbos nearfield (
 
#36 ·
^^ cool, you did your homework it seems. I do not hear port noise with my FV15 pair using them in 1 port mode in my ~2400ft^3 sealed room at my normal -15MV with +12 bass hot. For demo, I had them over reference bass and there was only the pulse server scene that made them chuff. There is only about 1% of the movie out there that makes my subs chuff but only above reference level which is way above my normal listening level. I doubt a pair of FV18 would chuff in your theater room at your normal listening level or even at reference or above level.
 
#37 ·
Unfortunately, Jeff P and Josh R are not going to be able to make it. I believe we will have a rep from LA Sound Panels on hand.

However Jeff P, Mark S, and Brian D have ensured thay we have all plenty of options to compare. The Seaton F18s and 1 of 2 of the Funk DO 12s will be delivered tomorrow!

I will be picking up @bulls V1801 this week so we will have it for the 10th and 17th! I am just waiting on the Dayton EMM-6 from Herb @ CSL to do the outdoor CEA-2010 testing.

I do need help with the movie and music playlists so please start making suggestions.
 
#38 ·
What scenes are notorious for causing ported subs to chuff?

I can evaluate port noise thresholds with CEA burst tones but these noises are often masked by the rest of the soundtrack. I've also observed that pointing the port away from the listening position reduces the audibility of port noises (as well as reducing the tactile effects unfortunately) .
 
#39 · (Edited)
Movie chuffing scenes, off the top of my head:

Edge of Tomorrow - First 40 Seconds
Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument Scene
World War Z - Grenade
Pulse - Control Room

Music playlist:

Bassotronics - Bass I Love You
Justin Bieber - Baby
Eagles - Hotel California in Melbourne
 
#40 ·
Cross-post from the Seaton Submersive thread:


Master/Slave F18+ pair in black oak are now in the house! These will ultimately be going upstairs into my dedicated media room. For now they are in the open concept downstairs den. They are definitely more subwoofer than furniture but I love the modular design and they would even work well behind the seats in my den. Hopefully they don't shame MFWs!

I hosting GTGs on June 10 & 17 and performing CEA-2010 groundplane measurements starting June 9. The F18s will be the sealed reference sub (master and master+slave) to compare vs single ported 18s as well as my resident dual MFW-15 Turbos.

Rythmik FV18
PSA V1801
JTR Cap 118
JTR Cap 1400 (2015)

SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet

I am planning to measure the PSA S3000i and hopefully a Submersive HP as well. With the JTR measurements, we should have a reference for comparison to data-bass.com .

Sorry for the poor phone pics. I love the look of the carbon fiber driver which matches my Mirage OMDs. My son turns 4 in a few weeks, but I think these need to run grills off! 😎
 
#41 ·
Hey Marc, let me know if you already have a line on a SubM. If not, I have one that I can bring on the 10th.

chris

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#42 ·
I suspect that Marc expected me to bring my experimental, non-production Sub-M. (I live in Corona also) To complicate things my L & R Catalysts are Industrial Velcroed to the top and would be at the least very difficult to remove and get down the stairs.
I run ALL my Seatons on 240VAC (The SubMs' amps are auto ranging, so that would not have been a problem)

Note: Mark chose to go a different path (Master / Slave)
 
#45 ·
Doesn't everyone ?

like you didn't suspect this would happen . . .
 

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