RPCRT Reference Material - Color Decoding - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1087 Old 03-21-2008, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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In the Hitachi tweak thread there is an excellent topic on how to decode and correctly set the three main color for RPCRT (Blue, Green and Red), Mr. Bob and Michael had suggested some chapters of different DVDs that would showcase a tv with the right color adjustments.

If you have some material that you can suggest please feel free to share your recomendation. If you could tell us what media, chapter any special explanation of ofcouse if you can take pictures as good as Mr. Bob's please post it.

The first two suggestions were:

Shakespeare in Love Chapter 8 from Mr. Bob - if you would like to elaborate...
DVE Calibration disk - viedo montage from LastButNotLeast (Michael ) - If you would elaborate...

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post #2 of 1087 Old 03-21-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

DVE Calibration disk - viedo montage from LastButNotLeast (Michael ) - If you would elaborate...

DVE has a good scene in the demo materials "Montage of Images" with four kids with different skin tones (is that politically correct enough?) and bright balloons. You need to slow it down and freeze the frame to see anything, but the results are pretty much as Bob describes for Shakespeare (which I will get next time I'm at either the library or Blockbuster). The balloons should be bright without overemphasizing the flesh tones.

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post #3 of 1087 Old 03-21-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Shakespeare in Love Chapter 8 from Mr. Bob - if you would like to elaborate...

The best test for color decoding and red push is the scene in Shakespeare in Love - chapter 8, I believe - where Kit is discussing Shakespeare's new play with him, down in the watering hole after the announcement of his new play and sitting at the bar, with the bartender attending them and observing. The closeup of Kit is the best - freeze it - and observe his fleshtones against his outfit. The golds, the purples, the blues...

In a red pushed scenario, if the blues have been optimized with the blue filter/iso test, the blues turn out great, but Kit's fleshtones are way over the top, sunburned and ruddy looking. Not really lifelike at all, destroying any chance of that delicate state known as suspension of disbelief, which is what it's all about.

If you reduce the color intensity a few ticks the fleshtones come in just fine. But you wilt out the blues and greens in his outfit, they are no longer vivid like they should be. With red push, accurate fleshtones and a vivid peacock feather cannot both retain their accuracy in the same scene.

Once the color has been properly linearized, the blues and greens and golds in Kit's outfit stand out as vivid and crisp, like they should be, with his fleshtones totally accurate. Fleshtones and a peacock feather can co-exist in the same scene just fine.

At which point try and move to a scene where you can see all 3 of the guys at the bar - Sh and Kit and the bartender - and each of the 3 facial fleshtones will be slightly different and unique. Another great test of color accuracy (including grayscale, the foundation, which has to be accurate as well): a room full of people, all with accurate - and thus slightly different - fleshtones, each of which is unique and easy to make out.

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Screenshots added by LastButNotLeast (Michael), upconverted SD Shakespeare in Love.

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post #4 of 1087 Old 03-25-2008, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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For grayscale reference LastButNotLeast has this to say:

The beginning of U2's "Rattle and Hum" is in black and white. HD-B/W. Oxymoron, no? Anyway, Gives you a good idea of evenness of grays across the screen. And the gospel version of "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" is worth the price of the disc.
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post #5 of 1087 Old 04-01-2008, 08:16 AM
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So...this is going to be our CRT screenshot thread, then?

Cool.

Have actually been considering posting some shots from the Wii. I know it's not 360/PS3-style HD, but I must say that Super Mario Galaxy (besides being a great game) is one of the prettiest, most colorful gaming experiences on any platform that I've seen.

When you hear that the Wii suffers in the graphics dept, put on Galaxy & see what that little box can actually do.

And can also say with all confidence that the component cables for Wii do make a difference. Grabbed a set from Monoprice. Much sharper!!

If I can get a decent shot or 2, I'll put 'em up.

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post #6 of 1087 Old 04-01-2008, 10:22 AM
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For Color if anyone has "The Host" you can get a good idea on where your colors are in the 2nd or 3rd chapter. Here's a capture I took for reference:



As for the Grey-Scale "The Covenant" is another good DVD for reference
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post #7 of 1087 Old 04-02-2008, 07:37 PM
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Getting the hang of it. Sweet spot seems to be f5.0, but lots of work remains.

Fantastic 4 (SD):



Sahara (HD):



Aeon Flux (HD):


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post #8 of 1087 Old 04-03-2008, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Michael what camera are you using?

These are awesome.

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post #9 of 1087 Old 04-03-2008, 10:33 AM
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Here's a few more from both 5th Element and Ghost Rider:
Note: Those vertical lines are in the camera's view only, not on the actual screen.

The Fifth Element









Ghost Rider







Have Mercy




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post #10 of 1087 Old 04-03-2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Michael what camera are you using?

These are awesome.

Many thanks, but that reminds me of the old joke about admiring the cook's pots because the meal was so good.

The camera doesn't really matter (though it's a Panasonic Lumix FZ-7). Up to now, I've turned off everything automatic (focus, camera shake, etc.), set white balance for daylight, and used shutter priority mode. White balance is the biggest problem, and the camera has an adjustment for that, too, which I plan to play with soon. The camera saves the pictures as 4.5MB tiff's, which go into PhotoShop.

I noticed this last round that f5.0 gave me good overall results, so I'm going to try aperture priority mode next time. I often have to use an exposure compensation adjustment (sorry, I'm not home so I can't look up what these things are really called), otherwise everything is washed out (and changing the shutter speed just changes the f-stop).

There's a fully manual mode, but then you're guessing with everything, which I think would only make it harder.

Keep in mind that several hundred pictures have been taken over the last few months. Obviously, only the good ones get posted. And even the best of them isn't nearly as good as the actual picture.

But thank you, nonetheless.

Michael

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post #11 of 1087 Old 04-03-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


I've got one of those, but I couldn't find the little critter, so I got these guys:



Close-up of the "baby:"



And the proverbial sitting duck:


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post #12 of 1087 Old 04-05-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

This set required restoration of the brightness from a relatively dim picture, which nearly every set I encounter these days in this series, needs. When I start, the Black Level is having to be run at plus 12-15 on every 510/610/710 I have been doing these days, to have enough light to even attempt to see into the dark areas. When I am finished, it is running at midpoint again, with full punch, as these pictures show.

This set is around 7 years old -

[/url]

[/url]

[/url]

Okay, and here's my Hitachi:

Planet Earth, Deserts, 21:41



Planet Earth, Deserts, 16:30



Planet Earth, Deserts, 33:47


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post #13 of 1087 Old 04-05-2008, 09:57 PM
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Aeon Flux (HD):

Michael's



Mine



Surprisingly similar I think.

I LOVE MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

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post #14 of 1087 Old 04-06-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Surprisingly similar I think.

Doesn't come as a surprise to me. We're trying to do the same thing!
I'm still having trouble with white balance. Found more settings to play with, so we'll see.
Results we can be proud of, I think.

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post #15 of 1087 Old 04-06-2008, 10:14 PM
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Nice shootin', guys!

Michael, you're showing up a bit of white crush on 1 of mine, where yours are a bit crisper because of that. I must be exposing my shots a bit more than you are. I'd ask specifics, but every shot seems to take a different combo anyway... In any case the white furry little critter shows more fur delineation on yours than on mine of him. And for some reason the drops of water hanging there look crisper than the ones I shot of the Pioneers. The Pio owners won't like hearing that...!

Actually, when I re-examined them, I saw that yes, your pix are less exposed than either of mine, of those - including the droplets - and that is the main difference. A great example of the blooming that happens when you overexpose something - like running one's display contrast too high!

I am sure that if I had stopped down my cam a couple of F stops more, like you did, that mine woulda turned out ID to yours. So Pio owners, relax, I didn't mean it...



Either way, CRT RPTV rocks!

Glad to see your frustration at this whole screenshot thing is finally over. Your shots are looking great!



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post #16 of 1087 Old 04-07-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

The best test for color decoding and red push is the scene in Shakespeare in Love - chapter 8, I believe - where Kit is discussing Shakespeare's new play with him, down in the watering hole after the announcement of his new play and sitting at the bar, with the bartender attending them and observing. The closeup of Kit is the best - freeze it - and observe his fleshtones against his outfit. The golds, the purples, the blues...

In a red pushed scenario, if the blues have been optimized with the blue filter/iso test, the blues turn out great, but Kit's fleshtones are way over the top, sunburned and ruddy looking. Not really lifelike at all, destroying any chance of that delicate state known as suspension of disbelief, which is what it's all about.

If you reduce the color intensity a few ticks the fleshtones come in just fine. But you wilt out the blues and greens in his outfit, they are no longer vivid like they should be. With red push, accurate fleshtones and a vivid peacock feather cannot both retain their accuracy in the same scene.

Once the color has been properly linearized, the blues and greens and golds in Kit's outfit stand out as vivid and crisp, like they should be, with his fleshtones totally accurate. Fleshtones and a peacock feather can co-exist in the same scene just fine.

At which point try and move to a scene where you can see all 3 of the guys at the bar - Sh and Kit and the bartender - and each of the 3 facial fleshtones will be slightly different and unique. Another great test of color accuracy (including grayscale, the foundation, which has to be accurate as well): a room full of people, all with accurate - and thus slightly different - fleshtones, each of which is unique and easy to make out.




Thanks for reprinting all this writing for me, Michael, plus adding the appr. pix. (The way you printed the text didn't show me as the author, just so y'know - )

The closeup of Kit shows the vividness of the blues in his outfit, without the garish overdoneness of his fleshtones, in his face, which would be typical of a red pushed scenario.

I don't see different fleshtones in all the faces in the group shot, tho. I know that in a shot that contained just Kit, Sh and the bartender, each does show a different fleshtone.

And Kit's face is looking a little bleak. I think I would have the color sat turned up a bit, for my taste -

But then again, this is in Elizabethan times, where bleak fleshtones reigned, I'm sure. This may be just right -


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post #17 of 1087 Old 04-07-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Thanks for reprinting all this writing for me, Michael, plus adding the appr. pix. (The way you printed the text didn't show me as the author, just so y'know - )

The closeup of Kit shows the vividness of the blues in his outfit, without the garish overdoneness of his fleshtones, in his face, which would be typical of a red pushed scenario.

I don't see different fleshtones in all the faces in the group shot, tho. I know that in a shot that contained just Kit, Sh and the bartender, each does show a different fleshtone.

And Kit's face is looking a little bleak. I think I would have the color sat turned up a bit, for my taste -

But then again, this is in Elizabethan times, where bleak fleshtones reigned, I'm sure. This may be just right -


Mr Bob

The way the quote was worded, I thought it obvious the words were yours, but I added your sig at the bottom. Credit where credit is due, by all means. Sorry for the oversight.

I'm not sure what version of the movie you saw, but I watched that scene over and over and not once do Will, Kit and the bartender appear at the same time. Maybe you can post one?

I also added a line about those shots being upconverted from an SD DVD (480i to the set). RPCRT's may rock, generally, but I think our Hitachi's were really a bargain.

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post #18 of 1087 Old 04-07-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Glad to see your frustration at this whole screenshot thing is finally over. Your shots are looking great!



Mr Bob

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Though I wouldn't say "over," I'm certainly happier.
Please look closer at the right side of the picture of the cute little desert mouse. There's the green blob I've been talking about. Any clues? The only thing I haven't done (the PITA factor, mostly) is separate the lenticular and frenzel to make sure nothing is there. Any other thoughts?

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post #19 of 1087 Old 04-07-2008, 07:13 PM
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Flesh Tone & Black Level Reference Shot:

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post #20 of 1087 Old 04-07-2008, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Flesh Tone & Black Level Reference Shot:

Okay, from where?

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post #21 of 1087 Old 04-08-2008, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

The way the quote was worded, I thought it obvious the words were yours, but I added your sig at the bottom. Credit where credit is due, by all means. Sorry for the oversight.

I'm not sure what version of the movie you saw, but I watched that scene over and over and not once do Will, Kit and the bartender appear at the same time. Maybe you can post one?

I also added a line about those shots being upconverted from an SD DVD (480i to the set). RPCRT's may rock, generally, but I think our Hitachi's were really a bargain.


Right, went back and yes, you did show my sig. Oversight on my part!

The green blob looks like an impediment in the blue image, showing red/green instead of gray/white.

Coulda sworn they were all 3 showing together at least once, at that bar. Musta dreamed it...




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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Okay, from where?

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post #23 of 1087 Old 04-08-2008, 08:18 PM
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I redid my white balance, how and why to be covered later, and I have several HD vs. SD shots as requested for comparison, also later. For now, I wanted to upload a new shot of Kit at the bar from Shakespeare in Love that is at the beginning of this thread and quoted later by Mr. Bob. Fixing the set also made it much easier to get more accurate screenshots (more on that later, too).



And another nice colorful shot, just for fun:



These are still SD upconverted by the set, so we're still comparing apples to apples.

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post #24 of 1087 Old 04-08-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

I redid my white balance, how and why to be covered later, and I have several HD vs. SD shots as requested for comparison, also later. For now, I wanted to upload a new shot of Kit at the bar from Shakespeare in Love that is at the beginning of this thread and quoted later by Mr. Bob. Fixing the set also made it much easier to get more accurate screenshots (more on that later, too).

...

These are still SD upconverted by the set, so we're still comparing apples to apples.

Michael

Pretty nice for upconverted SD! Via HDMI, I trust?


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post #25 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Pretty nice for upconverted SD! Via HDMI, I trust?


Mr Bob

No, actually. Component out at 480i into the Hitachi, which is doing the upconverting to 1080i. Very nicely, thank you very much.
More to follow, but the punchline will be that, from static pictures, it is very hard to tell the difference between HD and upconverted SD; from screenshots of those static pictures, it is almost impossible (unless someone out there can get MUCH better screenshots that I can).
The advantage of HD becomes obvious with motion. The added resolution and detail makes a big difference.
But I'll keep taking screenshots. Kind of an addiction, now.

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post #26 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

But I'll keep taking screenshots. Kind of an addiction, now.

Hello, I am a screenshot addict. My name is Bob...

Hello, Bob...

Hello, Michael...


We'll hold your hand thru it!




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post #27 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Hello, I am a screenshot addict. My name is Bob...

Hello, Bob...

Hello, Michael...


We'll hold your hand thru it!




Mr Bob

Is that more "Welcome to the club" or "Misery loves company"?
Let's see if we can get others on board, too.
I'll post my camera settings soon, just to give folks an idea of what is finally starting to work for me. The picture now is amazing (even if Will and Kit were at opposite ends of the bar).

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #28 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello too, my name is Leo and I am a screenshot addict. I haven't been able to follow through my addiction on posting pics, but I'm getting closer...

This is great support for OUR addiction.

Michael your pics look even better now.

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post #29 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Right, went back and yes, you did show my sig. Oversight on my part!

The green blob looks like an impediment in the blue image, showing red/green instead of gray/white.

You are NOT hallucinating (despite what everyone says). The sig was not there before; I added it later.

Guess I'll check the blue CRT next time the screen's off. Which I was really hoping wouldn't be for a while, but now....

Thanks for the suggestion.

Michael

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #30 of 1087 Old 04-09-2008, 01:53 PM
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Hi, I'm an addict named BFJ...

Love taking screens that show off the beauty of a CRT & will continue until the day comes that move-on from my CRT addiction...
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