2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 15802 Old 05-31-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarti View Post

Today i spend most of my time looking for stands for the HL61A750 tv. After searching for 3 days and all day today at different stores. I settled for the TR500X3BX for 220+18.78=238.78 from (apple,boy,tom). TV is shipping from BR for 1674.99 will see how every thing will work out.

If you can still cancel the order, I'd strongly recommend you do so now! I sent mine back when it began sagging under the weight of the TV alone after only a day. My cable box and DVD player also wouldn't fit on the shelf, sticking out about 7", and threatening to fall off the shelf.

The TV was actually beginning to lean forward as the top shelf began sagging under the weight of the TV.

I've read this is a nice stand for Samsung's smaller sets, but it couldn't handle the 61", despite their recommendation.

Try something else!
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post #272 of 15802 Old 05-31-2008, 06:10 PM
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@billnole

I did look at the stand it was on display with the TV. It's strong and seem to hold the weight properly. This is a local purchase so if the stand is not perfect after i setup then i will go ahead and return it. I looked at the store and this is a perfect stand for my setup at the basement. The price was cheap too. $40 less then the big river price. I should receive the stand on tuesday will update it when i actuall get it ready for the tv, Still no time frame on the tv from big river.
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post #273 of 15802 Old 05-31-2008, 06:22 PM
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Could someone please point me to a review of how the new LED series does, especially compared with the 2007 series?

The 2007 series received pretty poor reviews for its poor contrast ratio. Is the 2008 series a class better? Can it compete with high-end LCD displays (like the Samsung own's LN-52A750)? [I presume it cannot compete with Plasma's for blacks and shadow details.]

Update: Just found one for the older T6187S: http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/2...ce/index1.html

/iaw
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post #274 of 15802 Old 05-31-2008, 08:09 PM
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Just a quick update on pricing that I've noticed. Fry's has the 67A750 on sale for $1999. I had dropped by Circuit City on the way to Fry's to see if I could get them to match the Sears $2249, then give the 10% discount they are offering, while still leaving the 30 months 0% financing in place. They did gladly, bringing the price down to $2025.

Stopped back by Circuit City on the way home from Fry's and they adjusted the price again, this time with the 110% price match guarantee, using their own sale price of $2399 as the high price, bringing the total to $1960.

Also, Fry's had the 61A750 for $1699.

Before I bought the 67 I had stopped in at Video Only, and they didn't carry any of the LED Samsung's. I stopped by again today to check out stands since I haven't found one I like yet, and they now have the 750's in stock. Regular price for the 67 is $1999. I've also been looking at a new receiver, specifically the Onkyo TX-SR606, and they carry it but were out. Cheapest I've seen it has been $499 in store, $450 online, but the Video Only normal price was $429. I asked the sales guy about making a deal for the TV/Receiver, and what they have for 0% financing. With 24 months at 0% the TV would be $1925, and the receiver would be $400. It would be a little less for 12 months, I'm guessing $1850 and $370, but never got an actual breakdown on the prices. Video Only also sells a warranty extension to 4 years total (regardless of manufacturer's warranty, so similar to a Mack 3 year extension in this case). It's GE warranty and is in-home. They don't have a bulb vs. bulbless price, but they were willing to drop from $189 to the Mack price of $130.

I don't know that it's worth it to return the TV to Circuit City to buy the TV from Video Only (since they won't put that price on paper or in an ad...), for just a few dollars difference. But I might have to see if Sears will price match the Fry's price of $1999 and still let me take the 10% employee discount. It would be worth taking the set back if I could get it down to $1800. At that point there would also be the issue of choosing 0% for 18 months, or another 10% rebate, bringing the total to $1620.
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post #275 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 06:33 AM
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Anybody have the need to open up their set?

The reason I ask is because during black back ground sceens I can see two little spots or shadows on the bottom right corner. I'm thinking there must be somthing on the mirrors and all it needs is a good cleaning. Any thoughts?
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post #276 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 08:06 AM
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BB deliverd my 61a750 yesterday. It is one beautiful TV. No problems at all. I have not seen any of the known problems.

I did have a question about the firmware. When I hit the info button when the SW UPDATE was highlighted, there were series of numbers. Can I assume the first number is the firmware? Mine says 1004. Is that the latest?
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post #277 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpp777 View Post

Is [1004] the latest?

No, it's 1005.3. There's a link to it in post #1 of this thread.
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post #278 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 08:35 AM
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I just purchased this TV. I do not have any geometry problems but I do have one question. When my wife and I were setting the tv on our stand and we kept hearing something rattle. We got to looking at it and noticed that the actual screen is what is making the noise. The screen is loose in the bezel. I can lightly shake the tv and I can see the screen rattle back and forth. Its almost like the bezel is not tight enough. I tried tightening the screws in the bezel to no avail. I also have a 50 inch hln5065w samsung and the screen in that is solid. I was just wondering if this is normal for this size tv. As I said I do not have any bowing or "smiling" as some people have called it. Everything looks great, but I am a little concerned about the actual build quality. If it is not normal Im going to send it back.
Thanx in advance.
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post #279 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 09:20 AM
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I just bought this TV at BB and so far I'm fairly pleased, although I do think I have some geometry issues (I'll see if I can post a link to a pic later). But I have a question about motion handling on DLP in general. I'm susceptible to the sample-and-hold type motion blur (not so much the response-time blur, which is nonexistent on this TV). I notice both to some extent on my Sony 40W3000, which otherwise has great PQ.

Since the brightest of a DLP pixel is related to the "on" time of the mirror, does this mean that as brightest goes down, the on time gets shorter relative to the total frame time, so sample-and-hold motion blur will be less with the dimmer image?
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post #280 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 03:50 PM
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aarti,

Let me know how it turns out. I've read reviews where people have claimed they liked the stand, but I've also read many to the contrary. You know my experience and I'll be interested to hear about yours!

Let us know of your experiences with the new TV too! We continue to find reasons why we like ours better than any other we've owned and hope to have this one for years to come. We're particularly excited to not have to fear hearing the dreaded "pop" of another failed bulb ever again!!!
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post #281 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 04:25 PM
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please excuse me for being behind in the tv talk but when you guys talk about "geometry" problems what do you mean by this? The viewing angles?
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post #282 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashclash View Post

please excuse me for being behind in the tv talk but when you guys talk about "geometry" problems what do you mean by this? The viewing angles?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13932876

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post #283 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely open for discussion! And, I must say you have driven my percent certainty down SIGNIFICANTLY. I downloaded the content you mention and see exactly what you mean. Now I'm confuzzled. I've only tested these settings on Blu Ray material, and was actually never able to see any color banding, (which is kind of irrelevant since EVERYTHING I've read says use YPb as the output for Blu Rays, and then this is a non issue as you can't even change these settings.) One of the posts mentioned color banding in a Ratatouille extra, (although his before picture is not showing up in that post). I could not see it band either way, nor the Pixar logo, so maybe there have been some PS3 firmware fixes since these recommendations came out. I could actually discern little Blu Ray difference between YPb output with SuperWhite on, RGB Full/HDMI Normal, RGB Limited/HDMI Low.

Nearly every "expert" opinion I've read here on AVS advises RGB limited. But, I definitely see banding with RGB limited and HDMI black level low in the 2 sources you suggest, and do NOT with RGB full range and HDMI Black level normal.

I think the issue is that the RGB limited recommended setting is correct for video encoded material. I think for other PC encoded materials, such as games, (and apparently those trailers, which is kind of weird), then RGB full is probably correct. Since we can force the display output to YPb for Blu Rays, then it seems to me that RGB and Black level should be set what makes games work best, (assuming you have no other RGB video based source sharing the input). I wonder if the issue, is that it is just hasn't really been standardized as to if games or trailers are encoded in PC 0-255 RGB levels, or video 16-235 levels. So, these settings may need to changed from time to time. Although, realistically it is pretty close, and most people would probably be OK with just leaving it one way or the other. Argh... now I don't know what to recommend in the FAQ, and how to not make it too confusing.

Perhaps I should just say something like RGB Full/HDMI Black level Normal is ideal for PC encoded content like games, whereas RGB Limited/HDMI Black Level Low is better for video encoded content. However, since Blu Rays should be forced to output in YPb format (and thus bypassing the whole RGB/HDMI Black Level issue), you may want to set up the combo for games. If you notice a bad picture, color banding, or bad black levels, to try the other combination. How does this sound?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullman View Post

I hope that because you are 99.5% sure doesn't mean that it's not open to discussion. I'm just trying to get the best picture I can as a DIYer.

It's funny that you should mention color banding, because that is really the only difference I can discern. I see color banding with the settings you posted that I've not seen before. One piece of source that I saw this in is the Wipeout HD trailer from the Playstation Store. There are gray boxes that rotate by with bullet points about the game in between game footage. With your settings I can clearly see color banding in the gray boxes, under the text. I see maybe a dozen distinct colors of grays and I can clearly see each step to the next color. If I leave all of your settings the same and only change HDMI Black Level to Normal on the TV and set the PS3 to Full Range RGB, the gray colors blend more smoothly from one to the next. I thought maybe it was just that trailer, so I brought up the WALL-E trailer 2. I see some color banding there too. Not as bad as with the Wipeout HD trailer though. I see it in the top 1/3rd or so of the animated Pixar logo (with the hopping light) in the powder blue background. If you have access to these two sources I'd be curious to know if you or any one else see similar results.

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post #284 of 15802 Old 06-01-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post


Perhaps I should just say something like RGB Full/HDMI Black level Normal is ideal for PC encoded content like games, whereas RGB Limited/HDMI Black Level Low is better for video encoded content. However, since Blu Rays should be forced to output in YPb format (and thus bypassing the whole RGB/HDMI Black Level issue), you may want to set up the combo for games. If you notice a bad picture, color banding, or bad black levels, to try the other combination. How does this sound?



LOL,
It sound great until someone comes along and says
"Hello, I was wondering... I have tried both variations of the settings you mention here and in either case I STILL see banding, any other recommendations?"

and then someone else comes along and says
" I beg to differ.. I dont see banding with either group of settings, my setup is just fine, maybe its your _ _ _ "



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post #285 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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See, here's another new thread suggesting limited as the correct setting. But, that doesn't jive with Nullmans banding test...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035244


Actually, something just occurred to me, which I haven't really tested yet. What do regular DVD's use? Do they follow the YPb setting as Blu-rays, or will they use RGB? If they use RGB, then I may actually understand why so many people recommend setting it to Limited to correctly display video levels. I rarely use the PS3 for standard DVD's, so I haven't tested these settings with them yet.
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post #286 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNole View Post

Is that a leopard walking out the door in the first image?!?!?!

Also, a shot from the side might help in better showing the mounting results...

Bill, we've been involved in exotic rescue for almost the 30 years now. That is a "Serval" not Leopard you see (I didn't even realize she was in that pic). We only caretake "Mt. Lions, & Servals" these days.

I will post some other angles for you when the Mrs. gets back with my camera.

Peace
MR
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post #287 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpoet View Post

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but thought some of you might be interested:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


John

I'm curious about following this procedure once my TV is delivered this weekend, but from what I can tell these sets don't have user menu level RGB LowEnd and RGB HighEnd settings. Apparently you can change them through the service menu (Sub Brightness and Sub Contrast, respectively) though.

However, this presents a bit of a problem as the TVs reset the user brightness/contrast settings to the factory defaults when you enter the service menu. Since you're supposed to (according to the guide), set contrast and brightness first, how would you get around this?

Do I have to adjust my contrast/brightness and other user settings, write them down and, every time I have to make a change to RGB Low/HighEnd in the service menu, go back to the user menus and set them back?

That seems like it would make an already tedious process even more so. Any thoughts?
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post #288 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 11:41 AM
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Hello All,

Ive had my HL61A750 for about a week now. Love it, but I have noticed some picture symmetry issues. The bottom horizontal axis is perfect, but both veritcal and the top horizontal have about a 1/4 to maybe 1/2 "smile".

Browsed thru the board and saw some tidbits on the issue, but not sure what to do. Is my only option just taking it back to BB, getting a new one and hoping its better?

Part of me thinks I should just keep it, because the bottom horizontal is ok, which would be the most important with tickers, etc. The side bars are really annoying in pillar box mode tho.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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post #289 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the best post I have found, which seems to explain it perfectly.

As long as you match up the settings, (RGB Full/Normal or RGB Limited/Low), then the output is virtually the same, with the possible exception of some slight banding introduced in some material. It seems like there is a slight trade off, and you can decide if you want to optimize the performance/banding issue for games or video material. Note that I would add to his point 2 below, that forcing Blu Ray output to YPb removes this issue for video playback, so setting up for #3 might be preferred.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12581788
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron View Post

After a correct calibration full should look exactly like limited does after calibration (though either can introduce banding, see below). When you calibrate, you set 0 (full) or 16 (limited) to match black on your TV. You then set 235 (limited) or 255 (full) to match peak white on your TV. After you have done that, 0 (full) and 16 (limited) should look just as black, and 235 (limited) and 255 (full) should be the same exact white. With digital TVs, you are limited by the black level and peak white level that your set is capable of. Setting contrast and brightness maps the black of the source to black on your TV and the peak white of your source to the peak white of your TV. Unless your TV has some odd quirk, after calibration full and limited should be identical (again except for possible banding, see below).

If you use full for video sources, you can introduce banding because 16-235 is stretched and remapped to 0-255.

If you use limited for RGB sources, you can introduce banding because 0-255 is compressed and remapped to 16-235.

What this means is:
1) Calibration is important whichever one you select.
2) if you are primarily into Blu-Rays, playing DVDs or streaming media then you want to use limited for optimal quality
3) if you primarily are concerned about video games, full may be a better choice, especially if you are seeing banding using limited when playing games.
4)If you aren't going to calibrate, neither full or limited are going to provide a perfect experience, though one may look "better" to you.

Unless you have a HDTV that can display better then 8 bits, your set is most likely going to cause banding no matter what you do because everything is remapped to your display screen's capabilities. Even if you use full, after calibration your HDTV probably does not have 255 steps for each color anyway. Even with PC monitors, you really have to go out of your way to get an LCD that can display a full 8 bit signal, and HDTVs are even less concerned about displaying a full 0-255 PC signal. You may actually be trying to map a full 0-255 to your HDTV that may not have enough digital steps for each color to even display the entire 16-235 limited signal. Someday when all HDTVs are 10bit or better displays, this will be a bigger deal.

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post #290 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 01:47 PM
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WOW... thats all I can say

Just had the 67A750 delivered 15 minutes ago.. the actual store owner did the delivery on his own (said he needs the excercise) and helped me quickly set it up and throw in a dvd.. 1st one I grabbed was Jurassic Park and all I've got is a cheapo upconverting dvd player and I'm still super impressed.. I can't wait to fine tune everything and get this thing running to its full potential..

I'm replacing an 8yr old Panasonic SD rptv so for me the improvement (again after 5 mins) is impressive..

I look forward to contributing what I can to this thread and learning from all of you

slamduncan
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post #291 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamduncan View Post

WOW... thats all I can say

Just had the 67A750 delivered 15 minutes ago.. the actual store owner did the delivery on his own (said he needs the excercise) and helped me quickly set it up and throw in a dvd.. 1st one I grabbed was Jurassic Park and all I've got is a cheapo upconverting dvd player and I'm still super impressed.. I can't wait to fine tune everything and get this thing running to its full potential..

I'm replacing an 8yr old Panasonic SD rptv so for me the improvement (again after 5 mins) is impressive..

I look forward to contributing what I can to this thread and learning from all of you

slamduncan

Slam,
Congrats on getting the 67! Along the way may I suggest you give your 67 the opportunity to do all the upconverting for your SD DVDs? That is, try running your DVDs at their native 480i. Chances are you'll see that your 67's scaler is much better than your DVD player's upconverter for processing the 480i image to your screen's native 1080p resolution. I do the same with my cable box and the results are noticebly better with my 61" 750.

When in doubt, do the right thing.
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post #292 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 07:03 PM
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Thanks Sgooter... I'll certainly give that a try... I still haven't had time to do anything to the settings but I did get the latest firmware (which fixed my xbox 360 component issue.. thanks forum members!)...

I'll try the same with the cable box as well..

Also (noob question I know) can someone tell me if it makes sense to have the cable/dvd go into the tv via HDMI and then just use the audio outs to my reciever ? its an old marantz reciever so no hdmi and just one optical input .. just wondering if it makes any difference if I do it this way or if I bother to hook up all the red/white from my components to my receiver..

thanks !

sd
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post #293 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashclash View Post

please excuse me for being behind in the tv talk but when you guys talk about "geometry" problems what do you mean by this? The viewing angles?

No, not viewing angles. A example of a geometry problem is when an info bar that run across the or top of the screen is not straight like on CNBC.
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post #294 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 08:15 PM
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This is probably a dumb/obvious question.. but does it make sense that if I stand really close (ie 2 ft away or so) I can see a 'white cone' of light coming up in the middle of the screen ? I certainly see no sign of it from normal viewing distance and I'm just assuming its the light source itself.. just hoping that someone can confirm this is perfectly normal.. everything else looks great so far..

sd
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post #295 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 08:47 PM
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sam, yes just run the hdmi to your tv and the audio to the receiver, that will work just fine and you shouldn't have to hook up all the red/white cables.

I also don't have a hdmi receiver and thats the way I roll

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #296 of 15802 Old 06-02-2008, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamduncan View Post

This is probably a dumb/obvious question.. but does it make sense that if I stand really close (ie 2 ft away or so) I can see a 'white cone' of light coming up in the middle of the screen ? I certainly see no sign of it from normal viewing distance and I'm just assuming its the light source itself.. just hoping that someone can confirm this is perfectly normal.. everything else looks great so far..

sd

yes it is perfectly normal because the image is being projected upwards at an angle onto the mirror which is essentially the backside of the interior of the cabinet, hopefully that makes sense, it is then bounced off that mirror onto the back of the screen thus creating the image you see...hope that clears up some confusion ur having!
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post #297 of 15802 Old 06-03-2008, 05:49 AM
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Thanks N8DOGG/WOPINO

I suppose at this point it really would make sense to upgrade to a 'reasonably priced' receiver with HDMI .. if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.. I suppose by reasonable I'd have to say less than 500 or so and of equal quality to my marantz which was about 1000 8 or 9 years ago (how did I get poorer as I got older) .. if this isn't the place to discuss this maybe you could message me with suggestions..

thanks... and I hope everyone stays happy with this tv (especially me since its 1 day old)
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post #298 of 15802 Old 06-03-2008, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamduncan View Post

Thanks N8DOGG/WOPINO

I suppose at this point it really would make sense to upgrade to a 'reasonably priced' receiver with HDMI .. if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.. I suppose by reasonable I'd have to say less than 500 or so and of equal quality to my marantz which was about 1000 8 or 9 years ago (how did I get poorer as I got older) .. if this isn't the place to discuss this maybe you could message me with suggestions..

thanks... and I hope everyone stays happy with this tv (especially me since its 1 day old)

Take a look at this week's Best Buy ad. I believe it included a decent Sony 7.1 receiver with 3 HDMI inputs for around $300.
Does your Marantz have a digital coax audio input in addition to the optical audio input?

When in doubt, do the right thing.
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post #299 of 15802 Old 06-03-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamduncan View Post

Thanks N8DOGG/WOPINO

I suppose at this point it really would make sense to upgrade to a 'reasonably priced' receiver with HDMI .. if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.. I suppose by reasonable I'd have to say less than 500 or so and of equal quality to my marantz which was about 1000 8 or 9 years ago (how did I get poorer as I got older) .. if this isn't the place to discuss this maybe you could message me with suggestions..

thanks... and I hope everyone stays happy with this tv (especially me since its 1 day old)

I just got an Onkyo TW-SR606 and it rocks. 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs!

Big River has it for $445.
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post #300 of 15802 Old 06-03-2008, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, I've updated the first post with revised HDMI black level and PS3 RGB settings suggestion. Thanks to all who contributed to that. It can be a very confusing issue, as the documentation of the settings and what they are doing is not good at all. But, with a lot of research and help from others, I think the settings I've posted will work great for our sets for both Blu Ray playback and gaming.

I also updated my recommended settings, and made a link to a google doc spreadsheet of other settings. I may work on adding a form to that so others can add their settings if they like.
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