2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 15855 Old 06-27-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cadiman26 View Post

I understand what you are telling me and that whole concept makes sense to me. What I don't understand is how the 3d technology is supposed to supply 60 frames per second to each eye wearing a pair of glasses that each blanks out one eye at 60 hz when the computer is feeding a 60 hz signal. That would mean that the 120 frames per second that they claim the 3d output of the software is feeding the TV would have to be 120 hz which is 2x's 60 hz.. If the tv can only display 60 frames per second (the limitation of the inputs on the TV), then how can each eye be getting a different frame with each eye oscillating at 60 hz... I can see 30hz.. not 60..

You are still hung up on "If the tv can only display 60 frames per second (the limitation of the inputs on the TV)." This is not correct. Yes, the max input rate currently for these sets is 60 hz or 60 frames per second. But, this does not limit the display refresh rate to 60 hz. The display refresh rate is limited by the electronics/software of the display. With the current sets, the refresh rate is set at a constant 120 hz. So, how do you take an input stream of 60 hz and display it at a 120 hz refresh rate? Software and hardware magic. As noted above, if the input is 24 hz, show each frame 5 times for 1/120th of a second or insert black frames or generate composite frames (or some combination). If the source material was originally recorded at 24 hz and converted to 60 hz, use a 3:2 pull down and double it. You can always manipulate the actual frame input to get enough frames to display with a 120 hz refresh rate but the PQ could suffer if you are not careful.

For 3-D on these Samsung sets, you need to show each eye a different image for 1/60th of a second while the other eye is shuttered. I do not know how the media is actually recorded nor how it is intended to be broadcast, so I can not be specific as to how the images are manipulated. But, for illustration purposes, let's assume that the images are recorded on disk as right-eye frame , left-eye frame, right-eye frame, left-eye frame, ad nauseum and that they are feed to the display at 60 hz. In this case, the 120hz refresh rate can be met by showing each frame twice for 1/120 th of a second. Thus each eye will see each frame for a total 1/60th of a second. Remember, this is just an illustration. I do not know the storage format nor the specific algorithms used to get to the 120hz. This is just to show how it could be done.

The key is to realize that the refresh rate of these sets is not limited to the input frame rate.

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post #722 of 15855 Old 06-27-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

You are still hung up on "If the tv can only display 60 frames per second (the limitation of the inputs on the TV)." This is not correct. Yes, the max input rate currently for these sets is 60 hz or 60 frames per second. But, this does not limit the display refresh rate to 60 hz. The display refresh rate is limited by the electronics/software of the display. With the current sets, the refresh rate is set at a constant 120 hz. So, how do you take an input stream of 60 hz and display it at a 120 hz refresh rate? Software and hardware magic. As noted above, if the input is 24 hz, show each frame 5 times for 1/120th of a second or insert black frames or generate composite frames (or some combination). If the source material was originally recorded at 24 hz and converted to 60 hz, use a 3:2 pull down and double it. You can always manipulate the actual frame input to get enough frames to display with a 120 hz refresh rate but the PQ could suffer if you are not careful.

For 3-D on these Samsung sets, you need to show each eye a different image for 1/60th of a second while the other eye is shuttered. I do not know how the media is actually recorded nor how it is intended to be broadcast, so I can not be specific as to how the images are manipulated. But, for illustration purposes, let's assume that the images are recorded on disk as right-eye frame , left-eye frame, right-eye frame, left-eye frame, ad nauseum and that they are feed to the display at 60 hz. In this case, the 120hz refresh rate can be met by showing each frame twice for 1/120 th of a second. Thus each eye will see each frame for a total 1/60th of a second. Remember, this is just an illustration. I do not know the storage format nor the specific algorithms used to get to the 120hz. This is just to show how it could be done.

The key is to realize that the refresh rate of these sets is not limited to the input frame rate.


Okay.. I am not hung up on what the display can show.. I am hung up on the claim that you can also display 2 different programs at 60 hz as well.. Two pairs of glasses can be used to accomplish this.. Where does the information come from? The maximum ACTUAL frame rate has to be 30 hz for each user.. I understand that everything gets updated on the screen 120 times a second.. But if there isn't information at that rate.. then the 60 hz for each eye is truely only 30 hz..
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post #723 of 15855 Old 06-27-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadiman26 View Post

But if there isn't information at that rate.. then the 60 hz for each eye is truely only 30 hz..

Ooops. As I understand what's happening with 3-D on the Samsungs, you are absolutely correct. I see your point. Assuming you have right-eye and left-eye programs, if you use the example I gave earlier, then each program is delivered as 30 hz. But, when the 3-D effect is described, the shuttered time for each eye is not considered because the eye does not see "nothing". Thus, the apparent rate of each program as seen by each eye is 60 hz.

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post #724 of 15855 Old 06-27-2008, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

Ooops. As I understand what's happening with 3-D on the Samsungs, you are absolutely correct. I see your point. Assuming you have right-eye and left-eye programs, if you use the example I gave earlier, then each program is delivered as 30 hz. But, when the 3-D effect is described, the shuttered time for each eye is not considered because the eye does not see "nothing". Thus, the apparent rate of each program as seen by each eye is 60 hz.

Okay I understand your point more too
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post #725 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 06:21 AM
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Hmmm.... Cadiman26 - I just reviewed our exchanges to ensure I understood/believed/could verify what was written. Small problem. All of my responses were in reference to your questions/points described in postings 709 and 719. I completely blew over the point that post #722 was actually concerning two users viewing two different 3-D programs (or program views) at the same time. My response does not address that. I was describing one user with a different program/content for each eye to get the 3-D effect. If I understand the concept correctly, different programs (views) for each of two users requires 4 streams, if you will, left and right eye content for each user. I have not read anything about how that is accomplished.

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post #726 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 06:12 PM
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does everyone notice their set's audio cutout for like half a second every so often on every input while watching anything? Mine does it on every input and sometimes its noticeable and other times its not...could it be a firmware issue? I am running 1005.3 it did it with the factory firmware 1004 when i first un-boxed it.
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post #727 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 08:33 PM
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Ive never had the audio cut out on mine and Ive had the set for a couple months now
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post #728 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wopino View Post

does everyone notice their set's audio cutout for like half a second every so often on every input while watching anything? Mine does it on every input and sometimes its noticeable and other times its not...could it be a firmware issue? I am running 1005.3 it did it with the factory firmware 1004 when i first un-boxed it.

Nope works like a champ.

But on a side note, with my older Zenith Plasma, I would get that exact same problem, but I was never able to fix the issue. The Samsung does not do this, which is another reason I love this TV.

Does your receiver have hdmi 1.3a or higher compatibility? Just throwing it out there. Other than that, don't know what the problem could be. Good Luck.

And I would like to try that 1006.1 firmware, but no one knows where to download it...

Hopefully somebody does...

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post #729 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wopino View Post

does everyone notice their set's audio cutout for like half a second every so often on every input while watching anything?

Never happened with mine and I've had it for about a month and a half now.
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post #730 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 09:41 PM
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How many people actually use the audio out of their TV?
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post #731 of 15855 Old 06-28-2008, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozy666 View Post

How many people actually use the audio out of their TV?

I only use it when my daughter is watching her TV shows in the morning on PBS. I have noticed that it has little sound glitches at the beginning of the shows because it is switching from Mono to stereo... I actually have had two LED Sammys 5087s and 61A750 and both of them did it. I believe it is just the tuner that they use on these TV's. I never notice it on any other station - save for when I am listening to it through my AVR and a commercial switches from Dolby Digital to a non dolby digital signal then back again..
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post #732 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jkeener71 View Post

Nope works like a champ.

But on a side note, with my older Zenith Plasma, I would get that exact same problem, but I was never able to fix the issue. The Samsung does not do this, which is another reason I love this TV.

Does your receiver have hdmi 1.3a or higher compatibility? Just throwing it out there. Other than that, don't know what the problem could be. Good Luck.

And I would like to try that 1006.1 firmware, but no one knows where to download it...

Hopefully somebody does...

can somebody lead us in the right direction for the 1006.1 firmware???
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post #733 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 09:22 AM
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I just came across this TV browsing the net for a new set. I currently have a CRT RPTV (Hitachi 57S715), my first HDTV. While I have always loved it, its shortcomings are really starting to get to me and I think it is time for an upgrade.

Things I don't like about my current Hitachi CRT RPTV:
1. Optics (lenses and mirror) getting dirty.
2. Potential for burn-in.
3. Glare from protective screen.
4. Geometry, convergence, overscan.
5. Lost its HD luster.

So far, the HL61A750 really looks amazing and the consensus seems to agree. I could not afford a DLP three and a half years ago when I bought the Hitachi. I also have a wife and three kids and my TV is on a good 12-15 hours a day, so I would probably be replacing bulbs every 6-12 months. This HL61A750 will practically pay for itself in that regard, plus it sounds like it uses a lot less power.

I still need to get into a store to check it out, but I had a few questions (maybe already answered, I honestly did not read all 25 pages).

1. How is glare?
2. How robust is the protective screen (if any) to kids and how easy is it to clean (without scratching and such)?
3. How does normal SD content look on a set so big?
4. As far as RPTV goes, what kind of things does this LED DLP have in common with a CRT (cleaning, maintenance, convergence)?
5. How does the set look with its matching stand (if there is one)? My wife is not looking forward to glossy, cheesy black furniture, if that is the case.

Thanks for any replies!
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post #734 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 09:34 AM
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Anyone w/ firmware 1006.1 on the 67A750 having power cycling issues? Seems completely random. I've moved the TV forward a bit from the wall in hopes it was just a heat issue (which seems ridiculous since this thing doesn't seem to generate much heat). It's not a massive problem since it comes right back, it's just irritating as all heck.
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post #735 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by zed22 View Post

...Things I don't like about it:
1. Optics (lenses and mirror) getting dirty.
2. Potential for burn-in....

Two observations from someone still waiting to see my first example up here in Canada.

1. I notice that the factory owner's manual (downloadable from the website) shows access doors on the side for cleaning. From my experience with my JVC projection set, I'd always want this in any future RPTV.

2. This is a DLP TV. It uses mirrors. The set can no more burn in than can an image burn into your bathroom mirror. And if that happens, my friend, you don't need a repairman, you need an exorcist.
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post #736 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 02:22 PM
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I'll admit that I did not read every post, but I did search and did not find this topic mentioned.

Has anyone compared these with the Samsung ln52a750 model. I am debating the hl61a750 and the ln52a750.

I also googled and did not find anything specific to these models.
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post #737 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 02:50 PM
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Given a 1080p24 input are these sets capable of doing a 5:5 pulldown or do they simply do 3:2 pulldown first and then double to get 120Hz?
Thanks.
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post #738 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:


1. How is glare?

Personally, to me it's not that bad. I think the bigger issue is the brightness. HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, this is BRIGHT!!! In my dark room, it's nearly blinding bright!

Quote:



3. How does normal SD content look on a set so big?

So-so. The colors and everything look beautiful, but once you see an HD movie, it's hard to go back.

Quote:


. As far as RPTV goes, what kind of things does this LED DLP have in common with a CRT (cleaning, maintenance, convergence)?

No maintenance that I know of. You may have to clean the glass within the TV with a microfiber cloth (that's provided).

Quote:


5. How does the set look with its matching stand (if there is one)? My wife is not looking forward to glossy, cheesy black furniture, if that is the case.

****DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT get the matching stand! Read the Amazon's reviews and you'll understand why!





----------------------------------

One thing I can't believe is how quiet the unit is! It's so much better than the fan noise from my Dell 1100MP that drove me nuts!


ELECTRICITY USAGE
One thing I've learned that CONTRADICTS what crutchfield and AVSForum has said. I used my UPM EM-100 (electricity monitor) to measure the amount of watts taken. The 61" Samsung LED DLP TV takes about the following:

1) 10 watts when off (despite crutchcfield's 0.75 off when off data
2) 140-190 watts when on. This value varies greatly depending on brightness, the type of picture. I never saw it go over 200. I never saw it go to 110 or 120 like another user reported on AVSForum.


If anyone can comment about the 10 watts when off, I'd appreciate it. I've also got a Killawatt and plan to measure using that as well.
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post #739 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by stisev View Post

...If anyone can comment about the 10 watts when off, I'd appreciate it. I've also got a Killawatt and plan to measure using that as well.

Doesn't sound right to me. The electronics industry has done a lot of work in the past few years to remove these parasitic losses. That's what all the "energystar" type ratings are about. Samsung says .8 watts on their website and if this turned out to be a lie the doodoo would definitely hit the fan.
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post #740 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 08:03 PM
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I know this issue was raised in a series of earlier posts, but the answer wasn't very clear to me. I have observed that there is a distinct "pink" or "violet" cast to whites on all the LED DLP sets I've seen. I've observed both the 61" and 67" Samsungs at Circuit City, Best Buy and Ultimate Electronics, and they all have this pink shading that I believe affects all the colors on the screen. I have also noticed it in a couple of photos posted in this forum. When I compare the image on a LED set and one of the Samsung 650s, for example, you can clearly see the difference.

I know that everyone says its all in the calibration, but I am nervous about purchasing a set, especially via internet, and having to hassle with returns because this issue is not correctible.

Can anyone confirm that I'm not crazy for seeing this difference, and that this is truly a problem that can be fixed? I currently have a five year old Samsung 50" DLP (720p) that I like, but I am thinking about upgrading to 1080p, and like the idea of the LED engine. I do worry that once you get the set in your house and you don't have a comparison with another set that you may settle for imprecise color.
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post #741 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 08:06 PM
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Am I correct that the basic difference between the Series 6 and Series 7 is that one is lamp based and the other LED. What has Samsung lamp reliability been in the past?

Any thoughts on how the Samsung stacks up against the Panny PT61LCZ7?

Does anyone know who sell the HL67A750 in Canada? ( Vancouver)

(Coscto has the Series 7 61 and Series 6 72 but not the 67")

Thanks
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post #742 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by stisev View Post

****DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT get the matching stand! Read the Amazon's reviews and you'll understand why!

Thanks for all of the great info. I'm wondering, if not the matching one, what alternate stands are recommended for this set?
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post #743 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 10:48 PM
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Has anyone tried the Omnimount Center Channel Speaker Mount on the 61"? I'm not sure where I will put my Polk CSi3 with this TV. My RTi4's are wall mounted about 65" off the ground (kid proofed).

I'm still not sure if I'm going with the HL61A750 or the LN52A750. However, one of them will be mine by September (wife is making me wait until my b-day).
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post #744 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammie View Post

Has anyone tried the Omnimount Center Channel Speaker Mount on the 61"? I'm not sure where I will put my Polk CSi3 with this TV. My RTi4's are wall mounted about 65" off the ground (kid proofed).

I'm still not sure if I'm going with the HL61A750 or the LN52A750. However, one of them will be mine by September (wife is making me wait until my b-day).

Size matters: Bigger is better.

Go with the HL67A750.

Leave that dinky little 61 incher in the dust.

After all, Dude, it's your BIRTHDAY!!

______________________

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post #745 of 15855 Old 06-29-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammie View Post

Has anyone tried the Omnimount Center Channel Speaker Mount on the 61"? I'm not sure where I will put my Polk CSi3 with this TV.

FYI ... from page 93 of the Series 750 DLP TV User Manual :

Cabinet
● Never open the cabinet or touch the parts inside.
● Wipe your TV with a clean, dry cloth. Never use water, cleaning fluids, wax, or chemicals.
● Do not put heavy objects on top of the cabinet.
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post #746 of 15855 Old 06-30-2008, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrex View Post

Given a 1080p24 input are these sets capable of doing a 5:5 pulldown or do they simply do 3:2 pulldown first and then double to get 120Hz?
Thanks.

Interested in an answer to this too.
The SEARCH function isn't helpful.

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post #747 of 15855 Old 06-30-2008, 02:21 AM
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How bad is the overscan with this set? If you disable it in the menu (Just Scan, for example) or service menu, is it 0%? Or is there still some overscan, like 1-2%?
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post #748 of 15855 Old 06-30-2008, 04:42 AM
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Interested in an answer to this too.
The SEARCH function isn't helpful.

No one in the A650/A750 threads knows for sure. Samsung isn't telling.

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post #749 of 15855 Old 06-30-2008, 06:41 AM
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How bad is the overscan with this set? If you disable it in the menu (Just Scan, for example) or service menu, is it 0%? Or is there still some overscan, like 1-2%?

I measure 2-3% on HDMI.
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post #750 of 15855 Old 06-30-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorefoot19 View Post

I know this issue was raised in a series of earlier posts, but the answer wasn't very clear to me. I have observed that there is a distinct "pink" or "violet" cast to whites on all the LED DLP sets I've seen. I've observed both the 61" and 67" Samsungs at Circuit City, Best Buy and Ultimate Electronics, and they all have this pink shading that I believe affects all the colors on the screen. I have also noticed it in a couple of photos posted in this forum. When I compare the image on a LED set and one of the Samsung 650s, for example, you can clearly see the difference.

I know that everyone says its all in the calibration, but I am nervous about purchasing a set, especially via internet, and having to hassle with returns because this issue is not correctible.

Can anyone confirm that I'm not crazy for seeing this difference, and that this is truly a problem that can be fixed? I currently have a five year old Samsung 50" DLP (720p) that I like, but I am thinking about upgrading to 1080p, and like the idea of the LED engine. I do worry that once you get the set in your house and you don't have a comparison with another set that you may settle for imprecise color.

After calibration the color gamut shows white as white plus all others are dead on.
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