2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 09:49 AM
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Hope it's ok to ask this question here, but someone over on HTF mentioned that he found a display model of this set w/ rather uneven brightness even in the sweet spot, eg. corners were noticeably dimmer. Does anyone here have a problem w/ uneven brightness? I'm thinking about taking the plunge and probably won't care about the limited viewing angle as long as the picture is good w/in the viewing angle afforded across the width of a regular size couch (of about 90 inches) from about 8-10ft away.

I've been trying to look for a demo to verify for myself, but so far no luck. Only found last year's model at a local Best Buy, and it was situated in a very bad spot, so was too difficult to tell.

Maybe you guys can put questions about viewing angle and such into the FAQ too.

Thanks.

_Man_
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post #62 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 10:12 AM
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How audible is everyones fan? I can barely hear it with the set on. I am not complaining, just worried it may not be running correctly. I am not getting any faulty fan indicators on the front. The fan shuts off when the TV is turned off. I thought it would stay on a while like the bulb RPTVs do, but I could be wrong because it is a LED (61A750).
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post #63 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

So, you use/recommend RGB limited. What do you have for your TV's HDMI black level, Normal or Low? Seems like you would have to have it at Low to be correct.

After more reading, it seems RGB limited is what should be used, (even though on Automatic setting, it is moot as it will use Y Pb). Do you use Auto, Y Pb, or RGB?

I never tested the TV's HDMI Black Level Normal or Low settings outside of noticing that Low dropped the black level. My pure guess is that Normal would be IRE 7.5 (video levels) and Low would be 0 IRE (PC levels). Which would mean Normal would be right for video.

I noticed with many HDMI sources it isn't accessible (perhaps when it's not receiving RGB?) and defaults to Normal (presuming it's set to Normal since that is what's displayed or perhaps it's just the first option). In most cases Normal sounds like a correct choice over Low.

I sold my PS3 (although I'll probably pick up another when the new model comes outs) and moved my old Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player into the den so I'm PS3 free for the foreseeable future. Although the new Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray player is looking pretty good in the theater.

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post #64 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 11:00 AM
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While waiting for my TV to arrive I decided to go to the Samsung update site and download the latest update. I noticed that they put a new one up from the last time I looked (a couple days ago) the newest update is now 1005.3 up from 1004.

So if you guys are still having some software related issues, stop by Samsung.com and download the new version and see if it helps.
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post #65 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 11:17 AM
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I exchanged my HL-T 6189s for an 61A750 today. God bless ABT for doing that. although in warranty, Samsung did not want to recognize the problem and take care of it . I had a bad green push issue with the 89 after a firmware update. I can try and compare the picture on both sets, later on... so far first impression is positive. Nice to see 24 fps recognized from my Toshiba HD-A35 player. /not forced/ with 1.3 fw./
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post #66 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I never tested the TV's HDMI Black Level Normal or Low settings outside of noticing that Low dropped the black level. My pure guess is that Normal would be IRE 7.5 (video levels) and Low would be 0 IRE (PC levels). Which would mean Normal would be right for video.

A point of clarification on video levels vs pc levels... The difference (video vs. PC) is in whether the full range of black to white is represented by digital 16 - 235 (video level: below black and above white present) or by digital 0 - 255 (pc level: no below black and above white).

7.5 IRE is the voltage pedestal that is added to analog signals in NTSC system so that Black (analog only!) is represented by the voltage equivalent of 7.5 IRE rather than 0 volts. Of course, everyone else in the world has analog video black at 0 volts, thus the need to have an ability to select/deselect the pedestal for analog signals. "IRE" is not suppose to have meaning in regard to digital signals, such as HDMI. It is also my understanding (but have not verified) that the IRE parameter should not impact RGB signals. On the other hand, for earlier source devices, some manufacturers screwed up the IRE controls such that adjustments did impact digital signals. FWIW.

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post #67 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

7.5 IRE is the voltage pedestal that is added to analog signals in NTSC system so that Black (analog only!) is represented by the voltage equivalent of 7.5 IRE rather than 0 volts. Of course, everyone else in the world has analog video black at 0 volts, thus the need to have an ability to select/deselect the pedestal for analog signals. "IRE" is not suppose to have meaning in regard to digital signals, such as HDMI

Doesn't it come into play with DVI (and as such a HDMI/DVI input) since it carries the analog signal as well? What I meant is 7.5 IRE is the same as video 16 such that Blacker than Black can be displayed.

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post #68 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I never tested the TV's HDMI Black Level Normal or Low settings outside of noticing that Low dropped the black level. My pure guess is that Normal would be IRE 7.5 (video levels) and Low would be 0 IRE (PC levels). Which would mean Normal would be right for video.
I noticed with many HDMI sources it isn't accessible (perhaps when it's not receiving RGB?) and defaults to Normal (presuming it's set to Normal since that is what's displayed or perhaps it's just the first option). In most cases Normal sounds like a correct choice over Low.

I sold my PS3 (although I'll probably pick up another when the new model comes outs) and moved my old Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player into the den so I'm PS3 free for the foreseeable future. Although the new Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray player is looking pretty good in the theater.

I can't test these theories yet, since I'm not at home. But, I think you may be right that HDMI normal is video and low is PC. However, I think for the PS3 you may still want it at Low, because games and the XMB menus are in RGB, (which is the only mode where HDMI black level is changeable). This way, movies, (which will use Y Pb if Auto mode is selected) will still be able to do blacker than black and whiter than white (Assuming Superwhite is on), and games will use RGB at PC levels.

This might screw things up if say your cable box also output RGB format and you used the same input, in which case might want to change it to HDMI normal. Sigh... so many combinations. Too bad no more PS3 for you to help me verify some of this.


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post #69 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Doesn't it come into play with DVI (and as such a HDMI/DVI input) since it carries the analog signal as well? What I meant is 7.5 IRE is the same as video 16 such that Blacker than Black can be displayed.

On the first question, I don't know. DVI can carry an analog signal but I did not think that IRE would come into play because they were generally RGB signals. However, note above that mike_pro indicates that RGB are the only signals that can have black level changes on HDMI.

As to the second question, No, 7.5 IRE is not the same as video 16 in the way you are implying. For an NTSC analog signal with Black = 7.5 IRE, that is the blackest that black can get. Any voltage below 7.5 IRE has no meaning. A 7.5 IRE black on a calibrated NTSC display is the same "blackness" as 0 IRE black on a calibrated PAL (other than US) display. So, if we were to convert the 7.5 IRE NTSC signal to digital at video levels, that black would be represented as digital 16. If the conversion were made to pc level, that black would be represented by 0.

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post #70 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

As to the second question, No, 7.5 IRE is not the same as video 16 in the way you are implying. For an NTSC analog signal with Black = 7.5 IRE, that is the blackest that black can get.

Here is a post from Guy Kuo. I may be misunderstanding the issue (certainly possible). I thought with 7.5 IRE blacker than black could be displayed and not at 0 IRE...

"... I've always thought that on the Video Essentials disc the blacker-than-black bar was lower than 0 IRE .....

That goes with the incorrect assumption that the signals are hard coded so they always come out of the player at the same IRE level. That simply isn't so, but people get stuck right there. If you work back through the previous posts and understand the relationship between digital black and how that is "translated" into voltage and IRE by the player, then you will realize by now that the blacker-than-black bar isn't at a specific IRE level unless the state of the DVD player is also known. The "PLUGE" pattern encodes as bars which are at 4 IRE below black, black, and 4 IRE above black. but is about 4 IRE below black (whatever IRE black happens to be set on the player.) If the player is set to have black at 7.5 IRE then the blacker than black bar ends up at about 3.5 IRE. If the player is set to have black at 0 IRE the blacker than black bar ends up at -4 IRE.

As for questions 3 and 4. It depends. The player must pass the blacker than black signal and also is able to produce video signals below 0 IRE for you to see it with enhanced black turned on (0 IRE as black). Some won't pass blacker than black. Some won't generate signals below 0 IRE. You have to experiment a bit to find out if your particular system allows you to use the blacker than black bar of a PLUGE signal. If you turn the display's brightness control intentionally too far up and make the black background glow and don't see a bar which is darker than the now glowing "black" background, then your system is not passing or reproducing the blacker than black bar."


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ire-0-ire.html

This topic is rather off topic for this thread so I'll stay confused.

Update: I see where I went wrong I didn't think any display could display below 0 IRE.

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post #71 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:01 PM
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Can any 750 owners tell me if there is an option to not have the blue ring light be illuminated when the TV is on? Also, does this TV make some sort of chime when turned on? If so, is there an option for that to be disabled too? I am thinking about going with this model but saw those and two possible minor annoyances. My entry-level LCD TV allows you to disable a similar blue light on it.

Thanks in advance.
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post #72 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:04 PM
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You can turn both off.

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post #73 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:09 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply. Personally, I find them as annoying as the fake shutter sounds on digital cameras.

Quote:
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You can turn both off.

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post #74 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:15 PM
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You can also reverse the light, I did. I.E., it's "on" when the set itself is off and it's "off" when I'm watching TV.
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post #75 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:18 PM
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I viewed the HL61A750 at BB and played with the remote a bit, but they had their standard feed going. Can anyone note how the speed is with changing between OTA channels? Compared to my old CRT, my entry-level LCD is extremely slow to switch between channels--didn't know if it applied to the better models.
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post #76 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATman94 View Post

I viewed the HL61A750 at BB and played with the remote a bit, but they had their standard feed going. Can anyone note how the speed is with changing between OTA channels? Compared to my old CRT, my entry-level LCD is extremely slow to switch between channels--didn't know if it applied to the better models.

Since it's slower than I expected based upon my surfin' abilities on my old fashion TV, I'm guessing you would say this is slow for OTA too.
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post #77 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATman94 View Post

I viewed the HL61A750 at BB and played with the remote a bit, but they had their standard feed going. Can anyone note how the speed is with changing between OTA channels? Compared to my old CRT, my entry-level LCD is extremely slow to switch between channels--didn't know if it applied to the better models.

Your old CRT doesn't have to reprogram to a new input format. Digital sets do hence the long response when changing channels (1080i, 720i,720p)
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post #78 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 04:17 PM
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Hi All, First post and aggressively pursuing this TV.

Is the Big River a B&M store - or do they have a website? Link?
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post #79 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UA_Iron View Post

Hi All, First post and aggressively pursuing this TV.

Is the Big River a B&M store - or do they have a website? Link?

Check your PM's
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post #80 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Here is a post from Guy Kuo. I may be misunderstanding the issue (certainly possible). I thought with 7.5 IRE blacker than black could be displayed and not at 0 IRE...

Guy's remarks and mine are consistent.

First, Guy's comments and mine are referring to two different processes and signals originating from two different sources. In the case where I was responding to your question, I am considering an analog signal originating from an NTSC source. And, I am talking about converting this analog signal to digital at either video or pc levels. Black for the NTSC source is 7.5 IRE. There is no blacker-than-black in this case and the lowest value (black) after conversion is either 16 or 0, depending on the encoding level used. Basically, it is the encodng process and selection of black as 0 or 16 that determines whether something is "video" or "pc" level.

Guy's comments are specific to a DVD player (or similar source) that converts a digitally encoded signal (on the dvd or other media) back into an analog signal before sending it to the display as an analog signal (voltage). In converting to analog, the player's design determines the final output voltage. Since the dvd is encoded at video levels, black = digital 16. (Key point: there are no voltages recorded on the source media.) Depending on who did the encoding and how it was encoded, the dvd may or may not contain values less than 16 (blacker-than-black). It is in the case of encoded digital values of less than 16 that the player could, if designed to do so, read a digital value that is less that 16 and output a blacker-than-black signal of less than 7.5 IRE (if the pedestal is set). However, at this point, the output signal is neither at video or pc level. It is an analog signal whose primary characteristic (in regard to black) is its voltage. A 7.5 IRE signal can originate from a dvd whether it was video or pc encoded. Granted, a less than 7.5 IRE signal could not originate from a pc encoded media. Nevertheless, the encoding (pc or video) does not determine the level of the output voltage and thus the encoding method should not be used to describe whether blacker-than-black or 7.5 IRE is present at the display.

Not sure I'm doing such a great job of "clarifying."

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post #81 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 04:59 PM
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Hey there, I have been a forum lurker for some time now. I am seriously considering this TV. I currently have a 36" crt non HD, I am really looking forward to this purchse. I also could use PM for big river, I cant find it anywhere, thnx
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post #82 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubnobass View Post

Hey there, I have been a forum lurker for some time now. I am seriously considering this TV. I currently have a 36" crt non HD, I am really looking forward to this purchse. I also could use PM for big river, I cant fing it anywhere, thnx

Maybe this should be placed at the top of the FAQ: Big River = Amazon.

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post #83 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

Maybe this should be placed at the top of the FAQ: Big River = Amazon.

What is the need for an FAQ? Just call the company by its proper name.
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post #84 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I updated the FAQ with what I am pretty sure are the optimal settings for PS3, (basically display output Auto, Super white On, RGB Limited). Also note new firmware is out!


I don't have an Xbox, so I can't say how it should be hooked up. But, from searching the forums, I thiink the best way is to have the Xbox 360 set to "Standard" rather than "Expanded". Can someone with an Xbox please confirm or post the best settings so I can add them to the FAQ?


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post #85 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

Nevertheless, the encoding (pc or video) does not determine the level of the output voltage and thus the encoding method should not be used to describe whether blacker-than-black or 7.5 IRE is present at the display.

I agree with that and never tried to give that impression (tried being the key word).

The only thing I meant to imply is that setting black to 7.5 IRE instead of 0 IRE allows space for blacker than black to be displayed. Based on the belief that a display couldn't display a minus IRE. So setting black to 7.5 IRE would allow for video levels (below 16) where 0 IRE wouldn't. However accordingly to Guy some displays can do this. So I was mistaken.

On almost every display I have used (mostly front projectors) the moment you set the source to 0 IRE you lost the ability to display blacker than black. Hence my belief using 7.5 IRE (which would display blacker than black) gives you a fighting chance for video levels (to be display accurately).

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post #86 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I returned my original set to Best Buy, so below are the settings I've settled on with my replacement. They are pretty close to the original settings I have in the FAQ, (but not the same which shows that not all sets are equal). Still, wanted to post them here and see what people thought. I used the AVCHD disk to get these settings. I need to let the TV burn in a bit more, and verify them with DVE on my DVD player as well. But, if these hold up, perhaps I'll update the FAQ.

I use Movie mode most of the time, but sometimes use Standard with the "pop" settings for watching cable and regular HD stuff, depending on my mood.

Mike pro's new settings:

Movie
Contrast: 100
Bright: 47
Sharp: 0
Color: 49
Tint: 50/50

Detailed:
Black Adj: off
Dyn Con: off
LED Medium
Gamma: -2 (def -3 seems close, but -2 looks maybe better?)
White Bal: 0
Flesh Tone: 0
EE: Off
xvYCC: off

Picture Options:
Color Tone: Warm 2
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Auto
DNIe: Off (grayed)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (grayed)
Film Mode: Auto (grayed)
Blue Only Mode: Off
Color Gamut: sRGB

Standard
Contrast: 97
Bright: 48
Sharp: 0
Color: 49
Tint: 46/54

Detailed:
Black Adj: off
Dyn Con: off [For more "pop" set to On]
LED Medium [For more "pop" set to Auto]
Gamma: 0
White Bal: -4
Flesh Tone: -3
EE: Off
xvYCC: off

Picture Options:
Color Tone: Normal
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Auto
DNIe: Off (grayed)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (grayed)
Film Mode: Auto (grayed)
Blue Only Mode: Off
Color Gamut: sRGB


(Note items marked grayed were grayed out during Blu Ray playing, and may not be grayed out during say cable. Also of note is that HDMI black level is shown as Normal and grayed out. However, I have it set to Low (it becomes changeable when at the PS3 XMB dashboard), which is what it should be for RGB PS3 material.


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post #87 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 06:33 PM
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Mike,

Since Dynamic Contrast says it controls the contrast level... which I'm guessing is the Contrast Ratio why do you set it to off? Do you think setting this to High would increase the contrast ratio (most pop)? I'm still wondering if this is more or less a Dynamic Iris setting. For best blacks levels set Black Adjust to High and LED Control to Min?

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post #88 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripnickus View Post

What is the need for an FAQ? Just call the company by its proper name.

Now there's an idea . It seems like people are afraid to say Amazon for some reason. I saw some reference to it being because of price talk policies on the forum, but there's so much blatent price talk and mention of Best Buy, Circuit City, Crutchfield, etc. that I don't see the need to try to be cryptic about Amazon. Or maybe people just think it's cool to say "Big River" instead .
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post #89 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 07:28 PM
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Anyone have any way of knowing what's changed/fixed with firmware update 1005.3? A change log on Samsung's site would be useful, but I couldn't find anything on it. Did I miss something?
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post #90 of 15746 Old 05-21-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

Amazon shipped mine on Thursday, (returned my original set to Best Buy), with a delivery estimate of May 28th. Don't put too much stock in those delivery estimates, because mine is being delivered tomorrow between 9-1pm. :-)

Unfortunately, mine is taking a laboriously long route to get to me. It left Harrisburg, PA on Monday, only about 7 hours from me here in Huntington, WV. However, now it has gone to Columbus, Cleveland and is on its way to Cincinnatti, OH.

I called today to sked delivery, because the estimated date on the CEVA website changed to Friday the 23rd. They said the soonest they could be sure to get it here would be the 27th, since they don't deliver on Memorial Day. IF it happened to hit Cincinnatti tomorrow, they still MIGHT be able to bring it Friday. Went ahead and scheduled delivery for Tuesday, but will certainly check to see if it hits Cincinnatti tomorrow and call them back. I'm chomping at the bit here!
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