2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 319 - AVS Forum
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post #9541 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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is there a way to have CCA on on certain inputs and off on others...i just want it off on 1 hdmi input
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post #9542 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

is there a way to have CCA on on certain inputs and off on others...i just want it off on 1 hdmi input

Why don't you try it for us and let us know?


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post #9543 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

so you've tried this?..did you notice the colors are dead on using movie, gamma -2 and warm 1....my green, blue and red all match up perfectly and while watching movies, the color are vivid, lively, and highly accurate,...i cant seem to achieve this with cca on
so i lose some adjustments but gain in picture pq

What did it look like if you used both my user menu settings and service menu settings?


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post #9544 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

Why don't you try it for us and let us know?

ha..i tried..didnt seem to work, i'd turn it on for the hdmi 2 for cable and it would be on for hdmi 1

didnt know if there was a hidden trick
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post #9545 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

What did it look like if you used both my user menu settings and service menu settings?

looked pretty good, but like i said, yellows seems to be lacking quite a bit
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post #9546 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

looked pretty good, but like i said, yellows seems to be lacking quite a bit

Do you have the 67" or the 61" A750?


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post #9547 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 03:28 PM
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Guys, can convergence even be fixed on the DLPs. I talked to Samsung tech/contractor who actually live about 10 minutes away from me. He informed me that he's not sure if its possible to fix, that he is going home to research the issue, and talk to Samsung themselves.
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post #9548 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

Do you have the 67" or the 61" A750?

67"..my main test for yellows is bumble bee on transformers, he should be a bright yellow, and with cca on, he is washed out
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post #9549 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by labnpei View Post

can i bother one of you guys to measure the footprint on the 61"? i want to see if i can wait to find a nice stand for this tv, or do i have to buy the matching stand when i order it. i tried finding this info but couldn't find it anywhere on here or on the samsung site. thanks

I know your planning on buying it from ABT, but The High Definition Store has it cheaper, and are giving you the matching table stand for free, I'm going to order the 67inch tonight if I don't hear anything bad about them. They are an authorized Samsung dealer and I called them today and he said they are getting about 30 a day from the factory and they have about 200 on order. I would guess that means about 7 to 10 days, and a very new up to date tv.
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post #9550 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

67"..my main test for yellows is bumble bee on transformers, he should be a bright yellow, and with cca on, he is washed out

I would think you would be using 'The Bee movie' for testing your yellows..

My mom works for Sony, and she brought home a copy of "Starhawk BETA"
I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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post #9551 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 05:03 PM
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So is this common, I had a power cycle issue. The tv was shutting off and restarting right away after a few hours of use. SO I am getting service done to it under warranty and they say that they have to replace the LED, and three different circuit borads. What is left to even replace after that? Sounds strage to have to replce that much
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post #9552 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke14 View Post

So is this common, I had a power cycle issue. The tv was shutting off and restarting right away after a few hours of use. SO I am getting service done to it under warranty and they say that they have to replace the LED, and three different circuit borads. What is left to even replace after that? Sounds strage to have to replce that much

I did have the same issue and all they replaced was the DMD board and the power supply unit to that board.
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post #9553 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

If I were taking it up those stairs I would take it up and then to the right. It might make that corner and then you could back right into your apartment.



I'll bet the guys who setup the TV use the same route..

The set in the box is:

Package size(WxHxD) 60.0" x 42.6" x 20.2"

20.2" is easy to make that corner

My mom works for Sony, and she brought home a copy of "Starhawk BETA"
I quickly slipped it into my trusty PS3, and started playing.


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post #9554 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 05:24 PM
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Sorry wrong thread
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post #9555 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy_winds View Post

I would think you would be using 'The Bee movie' for testing your yellows..

ha ha ha...if i had even seen that movie...i might
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post #9556 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

looked pretty good, but like i said, yellows seems to be lacking quite a bit

Looking at the spectrum bars, yellow is a wee bit muted. I verified by using your idea leaving CCA off.

All LED DLPs have some marginal differences, but Red is the killer. Lee will need to adjust Red gain first and then all other colors as the gamma curve will change (when he has time).

I did say that Red gain needed adjustment with my tv to use Lee's calibration settings. Though I also had to scale the Red adjustments towards my original OEM settings.

After testing... CCA off works very well with Lee's calibration for Mid-day viewing and night, though brighter than what Lee is using. My original tweaks worked almost as well as Lee's without much work done in the service menu.

If my reds were as weak as your yellows, Lee's Calibration would be the ticket.

As a note... Jeff Gordons car (night race) look real with CCA off... as Yellow should glow. I should know as I have been to many races both day and night. Also if you watch a lot of CSI NY look at the Yellow cabs as to make any adjustment opinions.

Yes, my 2010 Panasonic 42C2 performs better than an S2 No floating blacks and keeps the lowest black levels.
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post #9557 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

Do you have the 67" or the 61" A750?

Lee thanks again for the info... I know technicaly CCA is needed, but in testing content and color spectrum bars... CCA does not work well with non-calibrated LED TVs. If it did, we un-calibrated tv users would not be using your settings.

I'll read through the details more when I have time... Cannot explain why my TV works very well with CCA off over your settings. Though I cannot keep Iris closed any more... something weird about service menu, if you go in and out a lot unexpected things happen.

Yes, my 2010 Panasonic 42C2 performs better than an S2 No floating blacks and keeps the lowest black levels.
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post #9558 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 06:38 PM
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^^^did you use your dve to check the colors using the color filters?...where they dead on as mine are?
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post #9559 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturboaudi View Post

^^^did you use your dve to check the colors using the color filters?...where they dead on as mine are?

The best skin tones... though as of lately commercial tv is getting too cinema oriented, as lighting is not even nor standardized. So you will see various hues more than not.

I used the ISO DVD as a common test between Computer, Laptop and TV as they all have DVD players. I set the Color temprature settings sRGB Color Space and adjusted the tv to full blacks as computers do not have the limitation.

It is no means calibrated, but the colors kept pretty close to the image shown on the computers and performed video and broadcast the best I have seen so far for any adjustments. Though it is not setup for low light viewing as Lee's tv.

Also I created a slide show DVD with images from the link given in the previous replies. I was watching for Red / Green and Blue /Yellow bleeding.

I picked difficult color detailed shots with gradiant and color contrasts... 10 out of 200 pictures made the list.

CCA stopped the bleeding like super glue. I guess I can create an ISO of my slide show DVD to allow use for those who don't have the means.


Note: My original settings, and Lee's settings w/o disabling the Iris control, bleed red like a stuck pig... though it is not so visable directly with most all content, it does effect color reproduction as so many colors are processed within a very short time frame. So what you see is not what the tv is producing... kind of like trying to watch a humming bird's wings in flight.

Yes, my 2010 Panasonic 42C2 performs better than an S2 No floating blacks and keeps the lowest black levels.
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post #9560 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

Thought I'd sit down and write up a little bit of information about the CCA in use on these sets.

This may be more information than some would want, but it should get you some insight on what takes place when calibrating this TV.

Getting into the Samsung HL6XA750 CCA

Thanks go to the users who started this thread in the Calibration Forum:
Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide


The CCA on the Samsung units is a Color Management System (CMS). Using special calculations, Data is input, and the CCA code creates colors and Grayscale tracking. This CCA also allows further tweaking of the color gamut for its Wide, Normal, and sRGB(studio RGB) settings independently, as well as changing the default grayscale tracking.

I'm going to go over a few of the areas that I used for adjusting my CCA. Here's the menu items. I've added remarks for some additional information.

Item Range Default Remark
CCA Control On/Off On CCA On/Off Selection
Sensor Status OK/NG OK Color Sensor value save
Red-x 0.000~0.999 703 Red-x measurement value using CA210
Red-y 0.000~0.999 292 Red-y measurement value using CA210
Red-Y (0~65535) 80 Red-Y measurement value using CA210
Green-x 0.000~0.999 173 Green-x measurement value using CA210
Green-y 0.000~0.999 731 Green-y measurement value using CA210
Green-Y (0~65535) 300 Green-Y measurement value using CA210
Blue-x 0.000~0.999 146 Blue-x measurement value using CA210
Blue-y 0.000~0.999 31 Blue-y measurement value using CA210
Blue-Y (0~65535) 25 Blue-Y measurement value using CA210
Color Sensor Save OK
WB Spread OK -
(COOL2)DW-x 0.000~0.999 264 14019K, Default COOL2 Color Temp
(COOL2)DW-y 0.000~0.999 267 Using other than Movie Mode
(COOL1)DW-x 0.000~0.999 269 12392K, Default COOL1 Color Temp
(COOL1)DW-y 0.000~0.999 274 Using other than Movie Mode
(NORMAL)DW-x 0.000~0.999 276 10799K, Default NORMAL Color Temp
(NORMAL)DW-y 0.000~0.999 282 Using other than Movie Mode
(WARM1)DW-x 0.000~0.999 285 9240K, Default WARM1 Color Temp
(WARM1)DW-y 0.000~0.999 293 Using other than Movie Mode
(WARM2)DW-x 0.000~0.999 300 7523K, Default WARM2 Color Temp
(WARM2)DW-y 0.000~0.999 310 Using other than Movie Mode

CCA Control - Toggles the CCA on and off, turn it off and enter your settings, turn it back on to recalc with your new input.

RED-x,y,Y Green-x,y,Y, Blue-x,y,Y These are the measured data from the test patterns in the DDP3021 menu. You'll notice the remarks about a CA210. That is a Konica-Minolta CA210 Display Color Analyzer. I could buy 2 small Hyundai's for the price of this unit. I would suspect that these readings should be different for every A750 unit made, if the plant used this analyzer and inserted the readings during manufacturing.

Color Sensor Save - I don't touch this one.

WB Spread - Copies the WB settings across all inputs. You do want to use this one. You can then tailor the other inputs as needed, and NOT perform a WB Spread.

DW-x and DW-y for COOL1+2 NORMAL, WARM1+2 The settings for Grayscale(COLOR TONE in the user menus) temps for use in the Standard or Dynamic TV Modes. I added what Grayscale temperature those values would default to. The Movie mode values are kept in the Cinema CCA menu.

After the initial raw numbers are calculated, you would normally exit the service menu and check your grayscale and gamut. To make adjustments, you're going to return to the service menu. I started with getting the gamut set first, then go after the grayscale. You may have to go back and forth between the two until everything looks right.

So, now you've got your initial readings from your calibration, time to adjust those Gamut Primaries and Secondaries.

This is where the Desaturation Menu comes into play.

ITEM RANGE DEFAULT
Desaturation Control ON/OFF ON
Desaturation Mode Normal/Wide/RGB 0 (Normal)
(NORMAL) Red-x 0 - 1000 660
(NORMAL) Red-y 0 - 1000 315
(NORMAL) Green-x 0 - 1000 260
(NORMAL) Green-y 0 - 1000 640
(NORMAL) Blue-x 0 - 1000 150
(NORMAL) Blue-y 0 - 1000 50
(NORMAL) Cyan-x 0 - 1000 179
(NORMAL) Cyan-y 0 - 1000 293
(NORMAL) Magenta-x 0 - 1000 263
(NORMAL) Magenta-y 0 - 1000 108
(NORMAL) Yellow-x 0 - 1000 412
(NORMAL) Yellow-y 0 - 1000 518
(WIDE) Red-x 0 - 1000 680
(WIDE) Red-y 0 - 1000 305
(WIDE) Green-x 0 - 1000 165
(WIDE) Green-y 0 - 1000 700
(WIDE) Blue-x 0 - 1000 150
(WIDE) Blue-y 0 - 1000 38
(WIDE) Cyan-x 0 - 1000 163
(WIDE) Cyan-y 0 - 1000 293
(WIDE) Magenta-x 0 - 1000 265
(WIDE) Magenta-y 0 - 1000 95
(WIDE) Yellow-x 0 - 1000 413
(WIDE) Yellow-y 0 - 1000 520
(sRGB) Red-x 0 - 1000 640
(sRGB) Red-y 0 - 1000 330
(sRGB) Green-x 0 - 1000 295
(sRGB) Green-y 0 - 1000 595
(sRGB) Blue-x 0 - 1000 150
(sRGB) Blue-y 0 - 1000 60
(sRGB) Blue-y 0 - 1000 225
(sRGB) Cyan-y 0 - 1000 390
(sRGB) Magenta-x 0 - 1000 365
(sRGB) Magenta-y 0 - 1000 170
(sRGB) Yellow-x 0 - 1000 422
(sRGB) Yellow-y 0 - 1000 494

Desaturation Control - Just like it says, turns it on or off. Toggle this off, enter all your new settings, toggle it back on again to use them.
Desaturation Mode - What Color Gamut setting you're using for viewing. When you toggle through the modes, this will set the gamut in the service menu as well(you'll notice the effect immediately). For those of you who want to take readings while still in the service menu, you need to set this for the gamut you are adjusting. Though I have found the measurements are more accurate when you are not in the service menu.
(NORMAL),(WIDE),(sRBG)-RGBCMY - These are where you enter your readings for the Gamut you are trying to adjust.


Grayscale Target White settings (for Movie Mode)

Cinema CCA menu
Item Range Default Remark Default Color Temp
(COOL2) DWhite x 0 ~ 32766 269 Target Grayscale x value for COOL2 12291K
(COOL2) DWhite y 0 ~ 32766 274 Target Grayscale y value for COOL2
(COOL1) DWhite x 0 ~ 32766 276 Target Grayscale x value for COOL1 10799K
(COOL1) DWhite y 0 ~ 32766 282 Target Grayscale y value for COOL1
(NORMAL) DWhite x 0 ~ 32766 285 Target Grayscale x value for NORMAL 9240K
(NORMAL) DWhite y 0 ~ 32766 293 Target Grayscale y value for NORMAL
(WARM1) DWhite x 0 ~ 32766 300 Target Grayscale x value for WARM1 7523K
(WARM1) DWhite y 0 ~ 32766 310 Target Grayscale y value for WARM1
(WARM2) DWhite x 0 ~ 32766 313 Target Grayscale x value for WARM2 6487K
(WARM2) DWhite y 0 ~ 32766 329 Target Grayscale y value for WARM2

You can see where the default settings in Movie mode are closer to the 9300K for Normal, and 6500K for WARM2.
You'll also notice that the Remarks in the SM are incorrect, these are NOT Gamut Targets, they are GRAYSCALE TEMP targets!

What you ask??? What number do I decide to use here from my grayscale readings? Well, 50%-60% stim would work, or maybe an average of 30%, 60% and 90%. Either way, after updating these, you'll need to go back and take, yes, MORE readings!

If you find that your grayscale still isn't where you want it, but the Gamut looks good, we'll use the WB menu.

WB (White Balance)
Item Range Default Remark
Sub Brightness 0~255 128
R-Offset 0~1023 512 RED CUT
G-Offset 0~1023 512 GREEN CUT
B-Offset 0~1023 512 BLUE CUT
Sub Contrast 0~ 255 128
R-Gain 0~1023 512 RED DRIVE
G-Gain 0~1023 512 GREEN DRIVE
B-Gain 0~1023 512 BLUE DRIVE

Here you will change the cuts and gains as needed to tweak the grayscale further. I do not know if this is a GLOBAL change for all Color Temps, though it does work for Warm2.

I think it's time to order more Spam!

Is this chart an update to the original service menu settings? I'm confused if the value found in the default column is which: (1) the factory value or the (2) post calibration value?
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post #9561 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 07:36 PM
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I think that the chart is from part of the service manual... though the defaults are shown (programed on chip), the numbers may be changed during final factory setup.

These settings are not ment to be used as a plugin to fix your color issues, they are used as a starting point.

Yes, my 2010 Panasonic 42C2 performs better than an S2 No floating blacks and keeps the lowest black levels.
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post #9562 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 07:55 PM
 
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I have a question for folks who are accessing their service menus. I don't know what this does or means yet, but I'm curious to find out. The value (which I haven't changed) for this item in my service menu is different than the default listed in the service manual.

In the service menu and in the ESP portion of the menu...at the very bottom...it is labeled "Sharp Picture Gain".

The service manual lists 75 as being the default. Mine is at 90.

I have no clue what this means or what it does, but what does yours say?
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post #9563 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

I have a question for folks who are accessing their service menus. I don't know what this does or means yet, but I'm curious to find out. The value (which I haven't changed) for this item in my service menu is different than the default listed in the service manual.

In the service menu and in the ESP portion of the menu...at the very bottom...it is labeled "Sharp Picture Gain".

The service manual lists 75 as being the default. Mine is at 90.

I have no clue what this means or what it does, but what does yours say?

It means that either the factory changed it, or the firmware version that was current when the Service Manual was created is different than yours. Don't worry about it.


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post #9564 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 08:50 PM
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I also saw a "Sharpness" button....anyone know what it does?
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post #9565 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

It means that either the factory changed it, or the firmware version that was current when the Service Manual was created is different than yours. Don't worry about it.

Ah, I see. Thanks.
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post #9566 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

I have a question for folks who are accessing their service menus. I don't know what this does or means yet, but I'm curious to find out. The value (which I haven't changed) for this item in my service menu is different than the default listed in the service manual.

In the service menu and in the ESP portion of the menu...at the very bottom...it is labeled "Sharp Picture Gain".

The service manual lists 75 as being the default. Mine is at 90.

I have no clue what this means or what it does, but what does yours say?

Mine says 90

stock firmware 1007.4 purchase date 2/25/09 mnftr date Nov 08

thanks to lee and all of the contributors in this thread...great tv and making my parents happy 46' 650 sammy adopters (my excuse to trade up for this tv before it was dlp was gone, amazing real estate for the $$...will hold me over until oled or the next big thing comes around)
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post #9567 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

I have a question for folks who are accessing their service menus. I don't know what this does or means yet, but I'm curious to find out. The value (which I haven't changed) for this item in my service menu is different than the default listed in the service manual.

In the service menu and in the ESP portion of the menu...at the very bottom...it is labeled "Sharp Picture Gain".

The service manual lists 75 as being the default. Mine is at 90.

I have no clue what this means or what it does, but what does yours say?

Also, those setting are for use in Dynamic mode.


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post #9568 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

Also, those setting are for use in Dynamic mode.

Ah, I didn't realize that. Thank you again Lee!

My wife is out tonight with friends. So, I've taken advantage of this free time to look through these other menus. I should just sit back and enjoy how wonderful everything looks, but it's like an addiction...
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post #9569 of 15757 Old 02-27-2009, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jrcorwin View Post

Ah, I didn't realize that. Thank you again Lee!

My wife is out tonight with friends. So, I've taken advantage of this free time to look through these other menus. I should just sit back and enjoy how wonderful everything looks, but it's like an addiction...

You've become a tweakaholic!


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post #9570 of 15757 Old 02-28-2009, 05:10 AM
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thanks, i know the hds has it cheaper with a free stand but i got a good price from abt and he is willing to come down on the stand to almost the same price as thds. and, he is in the chicago area if i have a problem and abt seems to be a very respectable store. i don't know anything about the hds so i would rather pay a few bucks more and the sales tax too. but thanks
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