2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 15855 Old 05-29-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

I think it is fairly easy to this with a good test disc. The AVCHD disc has some nice patterns that show black and white bars, and have the reference 16 and 235 bars marked. So, as long as you properly set your video level and contrast and brightness using something like this you should be ok. At least for that device. It becomes complicated when you have all of your devices going through a receiver and are only using one input, or a device like the PS3 that can send PC RGB levels for games, and video YPb levels for movies. I'm pretty sure the settings I have posted in the FAQ are correct for the TV and PS3. At least, they seemed to work for me, and I'm not crushing blacks or whites, (although I do have my contrast maxed at 100).

If I understand what you did with the AVCHD disc you set your brightness so that you could discern the flashing gray bars up to the point of reference black (16). You see 16 as black and everything lower than it as black. For white, you did the same thing - tried to get it so that 235 and everything above it was white. To do this you had to max the contrast at 100 and even then you may still see some extremely light gray lines flash, maybe up to 238 or so. At least that's what I see on my TV.

If that is what you did I'm not sure I understand your use of the word crushing for the whites. I was under the impression that crushing meant you were losing detail. I don't see how you lose detail by having reference white less than the maximum whiteness your TV can display (the background of that test pattern). It'd would be the equivalent of turning the brightness up on the TV and having your black level very dark gray. At that point you wouldn't be losing detail, just contrast and darker blacks. On the other hand, if you have your brightness too low you start losing detail and clipping very dark grays as they would appear black.

I hope that made some sense. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something. To sum it up I don't see how having your brightness at 80 would be crushing whites. I don't think it's possible to crush whites on this TV because even with contrast set to 100 the reference white is still lower than the brightest white the TV can display.

I happen to be using the opposite settings from you for HDMI Black Level on the TV and Full RGB on the PS3 (Dashboard and games only). I came to use Full RGB after visiting this page and using their test image to verify the TV supported Full RGB. I felt the combination of Full RGB and HDMI Black level set to Normal looked better and my contrast and brightness settings were still accurate when viewing test patterns on AVCHD and DVE (Blu-ray and DVD playback).

I'd like to try your settings for the display/PS3 combination, but I don't see any listed with 100 for contrast, just your settings for Cable TV (95) and Movies (85).
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post #242 of 15855 Old 05-29-2008, 06:27 PM
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I tried searching the thread for lag -- anyone going from a Sony lcos xbr2 to this notice a decrease in input lag even in 1080p? it's always been an annoyance after my monitor being a CRT for so many years (affects games).
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post #243 of 15855 Old 05-29-2008, 06:31 PM
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If you go down to the calibration postings for the GETGRAY disk you'll find that a lot of the digital displays will not let you set contrast so that whiter than white is limited and should be set around 80% of max in order to give some head room for incoming signals.
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post #244 of 15855 Old 05-29-2008, 11:22 PM
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On page 25, there's an "Activating LED Control" . Should this be set to Auto or what? How will this affect calibrating set?
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post #245 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullman View Post

If I understand what you did with the AVCHD disc you set your brightness so that you could discern the flashing gray bars up to the point of reference black (16). You see 16 as black and everything lower than it as black. For white, you did the same thing - tried to get it so that 235 and everything above it was white. To do this you had to max the contrast at 100 and even then you may still see some extremely light gray lines flash, maybe up to 238 or so. At least that's what I see on my TV.

If that is what you did I'm not sure I understand your use of the word crushing for the whites. I was under the impression that crushing meant you were losing detail. I don't see how you lose detail by having reference white less than the maximum whiteness your TV can display (the background of that test pattern). It'd would be the equivalent of turning the brightness up on the TV and having your black level very dark gray. At that point you wouldn't be losing detail, just contrast and darker blacks. On the other hand, if you have your brightness too low you start losing detail and clipping very dark grays as they would appear black.

I hope that made some sense. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something. To sum it up I don't see how having your brightness at 80 would be crushing whites. I don't think it's possible to crush whites on this TV because even with contrast set to 100 the reference white is still lower than the brightest white the TV can display.

I happen to be using the opposite settings from you for HDMI Black Level on the TV and Full RGB on the PS3 (Dashboard and games only). I came to use Full RGB after visiting this page and using their test image to verify the TV supported Full RGB. I felt the combination of Full RGB and HDMI Black level set to Normal looked better and my contrast and brightness settings were still accurate when viewing test patterns on AVCHD and DVE (Blu-ray and DVD playback).

I'd like to try your settings for the display/PS3 combination, but I don't see any listed with 100 for contrast, just your settings for Cable TV (95) and Movies (85).

I used this DVD also to calibrate my 61A750. I did the above for the blacks (only flashing with 17 and above), but the when I did the whites (no flashing for above 235) I didn't have good whites. I lost a lot of detail. I had to set the contrast to have all the bars flash except for 254. My contrast is somewhere in the 70s and my brightness is in the very low 50s and I appear to be getting good results with this. When I had the contrast higher it also hurt my eyes a bit. I posted questions regarding this in the display calibration threads and the best answer I could get is that the white calibration does not always need to have bars below 235 flashing. They also said that I could have bars above 235 flash it would just depend. I looked at several other patterns on that disc to measure greyscale and I think I have it set pretty good.
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post #246 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullman View Post

If I understand what you did with the AVCHD disc you set your brightness so that you could discern the flashing gray bars up to the point of reference black (16). You see 16 as black and everything lower than it as black. For white, you did the same thing - tried to get it so that 235 and everything above it was white. To do this you had to max the contrast at 100 and even then you may still see some extremely light gray lines flash, maybe up to 238 or so. At least that's what I see on my TV.

If that is what you did I'm not sure I understand your use of the word crushing for the whites. I was under the impression that crushing meant you were losing detail. I don't see how you lose detail by having reference white less than the maximum whiteness your TV can display (the background of that test pattern). It'd would be the equivalent of turning the brightness up on the TV and having your black level very dark gray. At that point you wouldn't be losing detail, just contrast and darker blacks. On the other hand, if you have your brightness too low you start losing detail and clipping very dark grays as they would appear black.

I hope that made some sense. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something. To sum it up I don't see how having your brightness at 80 would be crushing whites. I don't think it's possible to crush whites on this TV because even with contrast set to 100 the reference white is still lower than the brightest white the TV can display.

I happen to be using the opposite settings from you for HDMI Black Level on the TV and Full RGB on the PS3 (Dashboard and games only). I came to use Full RGB after visiting this page and using their test image to verify the TV supported Full RGB. I felt the combination of Full RGB and HDMI Black level set to Normal looked better and my contrast and brightness settings were still accurate when viewing test patterns on AVCHD and DVE (Blu-ray and DVD playback).

I'd like to try your settings for the display/PS3 combination, but I don't see any listed with 100 for contrast, just your settings for Cable TV (95) and Movies (85).

Yes, that is basically what I did. Don't get too caught up on my use of terminology of crushing whites, I wasn't trying to be technically correct, just descriptive. I set my brightness to the point where bars below 16 disappear into the background, (you may want to go one click higher than this for personal preference). For whites, it is true (and really preferable) that you will see bars above 235. With my contrast maxed, I forget exactly, but I see several bars above 235. Clouds and stuff look great, no clipping, lots of detail.


As far as the PS3 settings go, I am 99.5% sure that the correct settings are as I have them listed in the FAQ, i.e. RGB limited, and HDMI black level on the TV low. I've done a lot of searching on various forums on the matter. How you have it is actually how I first had it, and it doesn't look very much different with that combination, because the TV setting is counteracting the PS3 setting. However, the PS3 apparently misbehaves when set to full (doesn't pass blacker than black at the correct levels, does a weird remapping that can cause banding). See the post below from the very respected Stacy Spears, which is a pretty definitive source on the subject.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post10630977
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

So I just tested RGB @ full and you want to leave it as limit, unless you like to increase banding.

RGB @ Limit - Levels stay where they are. Y 1, CbCr 128 will be RGB 1, 1, 1 when done.
RGB @ Full - Levels get compressed. Y 1, CbCr 128 will be RGB 16, 16, 16 when done. (Best guess based on looking at image)
Full is different than the usual expansion where Y 16, CbCr 128 becomes RGB 0, 0, 0.

The best video quality is:

Output - YCbCr
RGB - Limit
Super White - On

BTB is still passed when RGB is set to limit, just bring brightness up to see it. Then turn brightness back down where it belongs. When you set brightness based on RGB limit and then switch to RGB full, you will see the BTB stripe. This is because you just remapped Y 7, CbCr 128 (the BTB stripe) to a much higher value.


Another thing to remember, is the with output set to YCbCr (Or Auto), this setting won't make any difference on Blu Ray movies, as it will not be outputting RGB. It should only make a difference for RGB sources, such as games and the XMB dashboard, (or when you specifically set the output to RGB for testing purposes).

Here's another good reference I found for the Samsung LNT LCD settings, which are also the same as I recommend for PS3 and HDMI black level.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post11287410


Also, the picture settings I have in the FAQ are from my old set that was returned, and need to be updated. Here is what I am now using, which has contrast maxed at 100.

If movies look good to you, and games look good the way you have it now, your blacks and whites look good, no banding, etc. then I guess I wouldn't worry about it too much.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post13919655

Picture mode Movie
Contrast 100
Brightness 47
Sharp 0
Color 49
Tint 50/50

Detailed Settings
Black Adj off
Dyn Con off
LED Medium
Gamma -2 (or -3)
White Bal 0
Flesh Tone 0
Edge Ehancement off
xvYCC off

Picture Options
Color Tone Warm 2
Size Just Scan
Digital NR Auto
DNIe off
HDMI Black Level Low
Film Mode Auto
Blue Only Mode off
Color Gamut sRGB
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post #247 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 10:37 AM
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The set was delivered on April 30. There was a strange green shimmer/halo-like effect and Samsung decided to replace the DMD board. After sending the wrong part twice (even though correct part number ordered), the local Samsung repair facility put the new board in. The green shimmer was gone, but a new problem arose. The dealer/repair facility is now trying to find out from Samsung what the problem could be. I suspect something has intruded into the light path, reflecting light to the screen regardless of DLP mirror position. As you can see by the attached photo, there are five circular shapes that appear on a blank screen and show in all low light scenes. Any ideas of what this is? I'm beginning to get a bit frustrated and think the dealer may be trying to find a hardware solution for a repair mistake.
LL
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post #248 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 10:49 AM
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soundbrz,
that looks like finger prints! on the lens.
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post #249 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvindd View Post

soundbrz,
that looks like finger prints! on the lens.

Bingo we have a winner
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post #250 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvindd View Post

soundbrz,
that looks like finger prints! on the lens.

i was gonna go with dust in the light path...here is what happened to my HLT5687S after i let the service company take my tv for 2 days...

Thank god i have a solid HL61A750 as my second replacement set after the initial replacement for the one in the pic above had the glowing red (that would change the appearance of black in any dark scene) light engine defect!
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post #251 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 11:30 AM
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Wopino, that looks suspiciously like my set after a day at the repair facility. I wonder if the dust can be safely removed....

thanks forum members...I now have some ideas to talk over with the service department.

Other than the green halo problem and the dust smears, the picture is pretty darn good for the price. I bought the sammy after my 2000 mits 55807 decided that the green need not converge anymore.
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post #252 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wopino View Post

Thank god i have a solid HL61A750 as my second replacement set after the initial replacement for the one in the pic above had the glowing red (that would change the appearance of black in any dark scene) light engine defect!

hey wopino.. you say your second set was SOLID.
do you mean figuratively or literally ?
solid as in the case and frame are STIFFER? (and maybe not a susceptible to screen sway?)
Or solid as in you just haven't had any problems and/or don't have the problems you had with the first.

The reason i ask is because, other than the infamous screen sway which has resulted in my 61a750 having a geometry issue, (due to what seems to be a weak frame at the front corners causing the whole picture to be off tilt about 3/16ths of an inch counterclockwise) Otherwise I am very pleased with the Picture quality and have been debating on whether its worth exchanging it for a replacement(same model of course).

Jay a.k.a. X

Samsung 67A750-Denon 2809CI-DefTech PM1000/PC2000/PM800-Klipsch Sub12
PS3(250GB)-Sony BDP S350-DTV HDDVR HR21

 

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post #253 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 02:05 PM
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Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but thought some of you might be interested:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


John
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post #254 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpoet View Post

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but thought some of you might be interested:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


John

Wow, thanks for that. I love it, more stuff i need to learn =).

Blu ray.
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post #255 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple-X View Post

hey wopino.. you say your second set was SOLID.
do you mean figuratively or literally ?
solid as in the case and frame are STIFFER? (and maybe not a susceptible to screen sway?)
Or solid as in you just haven't had any problems and/or don't have the problems you had with the first.

The reason i ask is because, other than the infamous screen sway which has resulted in my 61a750 having a geometry issue, (due to what seems to be a weak frame at the front corners causing the whole picture to be off tilt about 3/16ths of an inch counterclockwise) Otherwise I am very pleased with the Picture quality and have been debating on whether its worth exchanging it for a replacement(same model of course).

"solid" as in figuratively speaking because my set came with straight lines and no bowing & a tiny bit of tilt...i am sure mine suffers from screen sway but i dont need to test it because all my lines r straight when posting up a test image. I am very happy with my HL61A750 set. I can post pics once i take some of the geometry and some blu-ray shots from my PS3
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post #256 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 05:55 PM
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Okay everyone, I have a question that I have not seen answered in detail. On Samsungs website (and other mfg's websites), it states that the 3D technology delivers video at 120 frames per second.. This would deliver 60 frames to each eye every second. If you are supposed to use a PC setup to run this 3d application, and the PC input can only run at a maximum refresh rate of 60hz.. What gives?
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post #257 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 10:33 PM
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Amazon has it back for $1798 with free shipping and no tax. They also have their card for 24 month financing. I went to Circuit City tonight and they were lame. I basically wanted them to match amazon's price and they said amazon sells refurbed units only and only offered me $50 off their price ($1899) plus CA state tax (8.75%). Anyone buy their unit on Amazon (not 6th Avenue). If there are issues with the unit, what's their policy? Will they swap it out for a new one?
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post #258 of 15855 Old 05-30-2008, 11:45 PM
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Just a few pics as promised.

Our 67" mounted on the DLP-2 Mounts. The camera does no justice and the signal is Discovery HD Theater at 1080i moving.

About 33" from the floor with a slight tilt forward and the floating shelves for the components yet to be installed.






We like it for our middle child in a room nobody sat in until we installed it.

The 3 mounts use 4 screws per bracket and must be stud mounted. Even our interior walls are 16" on center 2" x 6", so we used 5" exterior grade deck screws to secure her. I'm sure 3 inch screws are what they are rating the 130 lb. capacity at, but, I overkill everything.

In all honesty you could make these mounts in about an hour, but, at $55 why bother firing up the welder and gathering the material???

Peace
MR

PS: Our single stack Barco reality running down convert BNC looks like this, double stacked there is no comparison at 120".

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post #259 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missrunt View Post

Just a few pics as promised.

Our 67" mounted on the DLP-2 Mounts. The camera does no justice and the signal is Discovery HD Theater at 1080i moving.

Is that a leopard walking out the door in the first image?!?!?!

Also, a shot from the side might help in better showing the mounting results...
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post #260 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 07:19 AM
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Hi--I just got the HL67A750 last night, and I have to say that the HD picture is really not as sharp as my old Mits WD-62725.

I have EE off, Sharpness at zero, using HDMI1 input from a Directv source. I see the "ring around he collar" effect, also, but the picture is noticable less sharp than my old TV. At first I thought that maybe there was a protective plastic sheet that I forgot to peel off. I tried the component input, too but the picture looked the same.

Am I missing something?

I have to admit that this set has almost no glare--my old set had lots--could that be the difference--the anti-glare screen softens the picture a little bit?
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post #261 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpoet View Post

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but thought some of you might be interested:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


John

Wow, that is good. It looks complicated and you need a $130 sensor to do it. Has anybody done this with this set? Can you post your settings?
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post #262 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missrunt View Post

Just a few pics as promised.

Our 67" mounted on the DLP-2 Mounts. The camera does no justice and the signal is Discovery HD Theater at 1080i moving.

About 33" from the floor with a slight tilt forward and the floating shelves for the components yet to be installed.


We like it for our middle child in a room nobody sat in until we installed it.

The 3 mounts use 4 screws per bracket and must be stud mounted. Even our interior walls are 16" on center 2" x 6", so we used 5" exterior grade deck screws to secure her. I'm sure 3 inch screws are what they are rating the 130 lb. capacity at, but, I overkill everything.

In all honesty you could make these mounts in about an hour, but, at $55 why bother firing up the welder and gathering the material???

Peace
MR

Last i recall the depth of my 61a750 was 14.4 or 15.5 inches i believe.
from the look of your pictures it doesn't appear to be coming that far out from the wall.. is it? or did you recess it into the wall a bit.
also where did you get those mounts?
looks GREAT on the wall!
i JUST built my stand last night and put the tv on it. but i gotta admit , looking at this im jealous.
however the only place in my setup that I could wall mount mine would be over the fireplace mantle(where i had originally intended on putting a sammy LN52a550 flat panel) but aside from being kinda tight on space its far to high up and the viewing angles would be shat i believe.
Very nice

Jay a.k.a. X

Samsung 67A750-Denon 2809CI-DefTech PM1000/PC2000/PM800-Klipsch Sub12
PS3(250GB)-Sony BDP S350-DTV HDDVR HR21

 

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post #263 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missrunt View Post

Just a few pics as promised.

Our 67" mounted on the DLP-2 Mounts. The camera does no justice and the signal is Discovery HD Theater at 1080i moving.

About 33" from the floor with a slight tilt forward and the floating shelves for the components yet to be installed.

We like it for our middle child in a room nobody sat in until we installed it.

The 3 mounts use 4 screws per bracket and must be stud mounted. Even our interior walls are 16" on center 2" x 6", so we used 5" exterior grade deck screws to secure her. I'm sure 3 inch screws are what they are rating the 130 lb. capacity at, but, I overkill everything.

In all honesty you could make these mounts in about an hour, but, at $55 why bother firing up the welder and gathering the material???

Peace
MR

PS: Our single stack Barco reality running down convert BNC looks like this, double stacked there is no comparison at 120".

Since this is tilted forward, is there something holding the top to keep it from tipping over? As mentioned above, a couple of pics showing this installation from the side would be great (maybe with the lights on?).

That setup looks awsome and could help me out a great deal with where my 61" is going to be located.

Thanks in advance.
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post #264 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNole View Post

Is that a leopard walking out the door in the first image?!?!?!

Good catch. I had to look closer after your post. I'm curious what that is too. The pics also look great. I hadn't even considered wall mounting it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

Also, the picture settings I have in the FAQ are from my old set that was returned, and need to be updated. Here is what I am now using, which has contrast maxed at 100.

Thanks for the settings, I missed them on page three. I'll give them a try this weekend.
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post #265 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 10:33 AM
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Anyone have an update on the best price they have found for the 61A750? "The Big River" had it for $1569 (though rumor is they were refurbs) the price is now $1799. Worst part was I bought it at CC for $1899 and canceled it before delivery to go w/ Amazon's price Doh!
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post #266 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnprz View Post

Anyone have an update on the best price they have found for the 61A750? "The Big River" had it for $1569 (though rumor is they were refurbs) the price is now $1799. Worst part was I bought it at CC for $1899 and canceled it before delivery to go w/ Amazon's price Doh!

I got mine for $1799.99 from best buy with a 10% USPS movers coupon.
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post #267 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

As far as the PS3 settings go, I am 99.5% sure that the correct settings are as I have them listed in the FAQ, i.e. RGB limited, and HDMI black level on the TV low. I've done a lot of searching on various forums on the matter. How you have it is actually how I first had it, and it doesn't look very much different with that combination, because the TV setting is counteracting the PS3 setting. However, the PS3 apparently misbehaves when set to full (doesn't pass blacker than black at the correct levels, does a weird remapping that can cause banding).

I hope that because you are 99.5% sure doesn't mean that it's not open to discussion. I'm just trying to get the best picture I can as a DIYer.

It's funny that you should mention color banding, because that is really the only difference I can discern. I see color banding with the settings you posted that I've not seen before. One piece of source that I saw this in is the Wipeout HD trailer from the Playstation Store. There are gray boxes that rotate by with bullet points about the game in between game footage. With your settings I can clearly see color banding in the gray boxes, under the text. I see maybe a dozen distinct colors of grays and I can clearly see each step to the next color. If I leave all of your settings the same and only change HDMI Black Level to Normal on the TV and set the PS3 to Full Range RGB, the gray colors blend more smoothly from one to the next. I thought maybe it was just that trailer, so I brought up the WALL-E trailer 2. I see some color banding there too. Not as bad as with the Wipeout HD trailer though. I see it in the top 1/3rd or so of the animated Pixar logo (with the hopping light) in the powder blue background. If you have access to these two sources I'd be curious to know if you or any one else see similar results.
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post #268 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 12:59 PM
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I Have had an HL61A750 now for ~ 2 weeks and absolutely love it so far. Waited until the price came down to $2100 and bought from B. Buy. 2 days later, they advertized it for $1889, and got the price guarentee. I use a Xantech IR control system and find that placing the mouse emitter on the blue circle on/off button is not very desirable. The set has a RS-232 port in the back, but I don't believe that I can just "tap" the IR signal into it. My other thought was to somehow thread the emitter inside the cabinet to make the installation clean. Is there any knowlege out there on the best way to handle this?
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post #269 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnprz View Post

Anyone have an update on the best price they have found for the 61A750? "The Big River" had it for $1569 (though rumor is they were refurbs) the price is now $1799. Worst part was I bought it at CC for $1899 and canceled it before delivery to go w/ Amazon's price Doh!

Got mine from BR for $1,674.99 with free shipping. Ordered at 11PM Tuesday night and was watching a movie on it Saturday afternoon!

Flashed new firmware to fix the shutdown issue and so far so good! Lovin' every minute of it!!!

I'd be amazed if anyone had refurb's on this product yet, as I can't imagine it's been on the market long enough for them to have worked into the stream yet. Could have been a different model maybe? Stranger things have happened though...
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post #270 of 15855 Old 05-31-2008, 06:26 PM
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Today i spend most of my time looking for stands for the HL61A750 tv. After searching for 3 days and all day today at different stores. I settled for the TR500X3BX for 220+18.78=238.78 from (apple,boy,tom). TV is shipping from BR for 1674.99 will see how every thing will work out.
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