Mitsubishi WD-XX735,736 and 835 Settings and Tweaks - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 809 Old 08-11-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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After calibrating my WD-65736 I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on calibrating the new Mitsubishi's. This way we could have a central place to share our ideas and settings. I initially used ColorHCFR to calibrate my TV but after experiencing freezing problems and inaccurate results I ended up using CalMAN to calibrate my TV.

Here is a little breakdown on what I used to calibrate my 736. First set the TV to Low color temp and then take a grayscale and primary and secondary colors reading and save it as your before settings. You can then refer back to this when you are finished to see how much your TV has improved after calibration.

To access the service menu, on the remote press Menu and then 2,4,5,7. This will bring up the service menu. The video button scrolls through each setting in the service menu. UP and Down changes each value, and pressing Enter (or OK) not sure what it is exactly on the remote since I do not have it in front of me, saves the changes.


Then I set my contrast and brightness in accordance with the "Calibration for Dummies Link" (see below). Next I calibrated my grayscale. G(RGB)L the first few settings, adjust the upper end of the grayscale, while BM(RGB) adjusts the low end. Once you get your grayscale correct, calibrate your primary colors, and then secondary colors.

Each color has the follwing in the service menu, with what I guess each could mean:

G(RGBCMY)L (Gain)
S(RGBCMY)L (Saturation)
H(RGBCMY)L (Hue)

Here is what you are going to try and calibrate each color to if you are using a high definition calibration disk:

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
--------------x-------y-------Y
Red----------0.640---0.330---0.2127
Green--------0.300---0.600---0.7151
Blue----------0.150---0.060---0.0722
Yellow--------0.419---0.505---0.9278
Cyan---------0.225---0.329---0.7873
Magenta------0.321---0.154---0.2849
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

Use these to dial in your colors. Once you have your colors correct, test your grayscale again and make adjustments if needed. Everything effects everything, if that makes any sense, so make sure you recheck your grayscale after making changes to your colors and vice-versa.

One more tip, make changes in the service menu and then exit out to take the readings. You will see why, the colors and brightness differ when you are in the service menu. Those of you with 835's might have an easier time than I did since you have perfect tint, which I don't, only perfect color. So I had to adjust the tint/hue, of each color in the service menu. I was able to get my primary and secondary colors except for Blue and Red close to perfect. Which after a many tries I believe is a limitation of this TV.

In case you don't already have it here are a couple of links, the first is the calibration for dummies guide, and the second is the calibration disk I used, AVS HD 709. The third is for CalMAN, the calibration software I used.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

http://avshd709.com/

http://www.spectracal.com/

Here are my current settings. These might give you a good starting point, if not you can always reset your service menu back to defaults by pressing 0 while in the service menu, and selecting restore white balance, first option I think.

Perfect Color
41
35
33
43
37
24

Color 31
Tint 25
Contrast 11
Brightness 30
Color Temp Low
Video Noise off
Deep Field Imager Off
Sharpness 35

ggl 1020
grl 994
gbl 1045
grl 128
srl 128
hrl 25
ggl 128
sgl 117
hgl 31
gbl 128
sbl 128
hbl 0
gcl 106
scl 86
hcl 15
gml 128
sml 123
hml 99
gyl 128
syl 107
hyl 65
grwl 128
ggwl 110
gbwl 110
bmg 0
bmr 16
bmb 65528
ofg 2
ofr 65530
ofb 5
cmg 150
cmr 150
cmb 150
idl 36
dbk 1


Good luck and be patient. It is very tedious, make small changes and take readings. It is worth it though once you have it calibrated. Let me know if you have any questions or problems. I've attached a pdf of my calibration report.

 

Final Calibration.pdf 225.166015625k . file
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post #2 of 809 Old 08-11-2008, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I had to recreate this thread due to the data loss that happened on the forum. I think I have started the original post as it was the first time the thread was started. However if you notice any info that is missing please let me know.
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post #3 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 08:57 AM
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Now that you have it setup are you happy with your colors? I think I will be paying someone to calibrate mine after I put some hours on the bulb. Cnet's review is worrying me since they are really bashing the color on the TV. Either way I'm sure it is better than what I have now for a TV.
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post #4 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutherland View Post

Now that you have it setup are you happy with your colors? I think I will be paying someone to calibrate mine after I put some hours on the bulb. Cnet's review is worrying me since they are really bashing the color on the TV. Either way I'm sure it is better than what I have now for a TV.

Yes, I am extremely happy with the colors now. It helped shadow detail as well. Cnet's review was accurate about the colors being off. Mine were actually further off than their's was. A professional calibration will definetely make a big difference. Have you thought about calibrating it yourself? It will cost you less money and it really isn't too difficult. You will also have the hardware to calibrate again every few months as the bulb ages.
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post #5 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 09:45 AM
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Ksbarnz,

Are you running any of your sources through a receiver? I (as well as others in the owners thread) am not able to save any of my picture settings on my 835 when the HDMI connection is going through my Denon receiver. I don't know what I'm doing wrong and when I called Mitsubishi, they couldn't get the tv to save the video setting either. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
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post #6 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patgilm View Post

Ksbarnz,

Are you running any of your sources through a receiver? I (as well as others in the owners thread) am not able to save any of my picture settings on my 835 when the HDMI connection is going through my Denon receiver. I don't know what I'm doing wrong and when I called Mitsubishi, they couldn't get the tv to save the video setting either. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Yes, I'm running my sources through an Onkyo 604 and do not have a problem with the settings not saving. That is stange that it is happening. Is it only happening to those of you with Denon's or other receivers as well?
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post #7 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 11:35 AM
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Seems like the others that have the problem also have Denons. I have a service call in and am having someone come out and look at it.
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post #8 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 11:42 AM
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I have the 65736 set. I did basic calibration using AVS HD 709. I am happy the result so far. However, in certain movies - Heart Break Kid for example - I see Ben Stiller with purple lips in closeup shots. I am not sure whether he was wearing lipstick or not. I tried adjusting magenta in my perfect color settings - with no success. Any ideas?
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post #9 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbarnz View Post

Yes, I am extremely happy with the colors now. It helped shadow detail as well. Cnet's review was accurate about the colors being off. Mine were actually further off than their's was. A professional calibration will definetely make a big difference. Have you thought about calibrating it yourself? It will cost you less money and it really isn't too difficult. You will also have the hardware to calibrate again every few months as the bulb ages.

I might do it myself depending on much someone local might charge me to do it. What I'm really hoping it that it looks good to mean with just some minor adjusting because I'm not what you would call a videophile. Either way thanks for the thread I think it will be useful.
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post #10 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubdap View Post

I have the 65736 set. I did basic calibration using AVS HD 709. I am happy the result so far. However, in certain movies - Heart Break Kid for example - I see Ben Stiller with purple lips in closeup shots. I am not sure whether he was wearing lipstick or not. I tried adjusting magenta in my perfect color settings - with no success. Any ideas?

My set had the exact same problem you are talking about when I calibrated with solely a calibration disk and color filters. No matter what I did I could not get it correct with Perfect Color. Are you calibrating with color filters as well or are you using a colorimeter and ColorHCFR? When I finally hooked up an i1 I found out how far Magenta was off and the only way I could correct it was with the service menu. You could try my service menu and perfect color settings for magenta. In the service menu Magenta has the following values to adjust:

GML
SML
HML

Write down your default settings so you can change them back if it does not work for you. Or, if you have an i1 you can post a calibration file and I'll check it out.
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post #11 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbarnz View Post

My set had the exact same problem you are talking about when I calibrated with solely a calibration disk and color filters. No matter what I did I could not get it correct with Perfect Color. Are you calibrating with color filters as well or are you using a colorimeter and ColorHCFR? When I finally hooked up an i1 I found out how far Magenta was off and the only way I could correct it was with the service menu. You could try my service menu and perfect color settings for magenta. In the service menu Magenta has the following values to adjust:

GML
SML
HML

Write down your default settings so you can change them back if it does not work for you. Or, if you have an i1 you can post a calibration file and I'll check it out.

Thanks Ksbarnz,

I am not using a colorimeter or a ColorHCFR, just the 709 disk and color filters. As I said before, I am happy with the result, but the purple lips bugs me. I will give your suggestion a try.
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post #12 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutherland View Post

I might do it myself depending on much someone local might charge me to do it. What I'm really hoping it that it looks good to mean with just some minor adjusting because I'm not what you would call a videophile. Either way thanks for the thread I think it will be useful.

I'm not what you call a videophile either and just started getting into this stuff. I know BestBuy does calibrations now for $300. I just put a call in to a local person to see how much they charge as well just to see what a typical calibration costs. I don't think I can do this stuff myself and it seems just getting the tools to do it would cost a good bit.
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post #13 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patgilm View Post

I'm not what you call a videophile either and just started getting into this stuff. I know BestBuy does calibrations now for $300. I just put a call in to a local person to see how much they charge as well just to see what a typical calibration costs. I don't think I can do this stuff myself and it seems just getting the tools to do it would cost a good bit.

Seriously, it really is not that difficult at all to calibrate it yourself. Just follow my first post and look at the calibration for dummies link I have posted and you should be good to go. It just takes a little time. It will cost you $140 for the i1 LT, and the software program and calibration disk are both free (see my first post for links). The thing with bulb based dlp is that the picture changes over time as the bulb ages so if you owned the calibration equipment you could calibrate it any time you wanted or needed to.

Either way you go, a professional calbration or calibrating it yourself, you should see a big change in picture quality once it is calibrated.
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post #14 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubdap View Post

Thanks Ksbarnz,

I am not using a colorimeter or a ColorHCFR, just the 709 disk and color filters. As I said before, I am happy with the result, but the purple lips bugs me. I will give your suggestion a try.

No problem at all.
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post #15 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 01:28 PM
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I'm having troubles with my greens--at least from broadcast sports. The green in the Green Bay Packers uniforms is more of a blue-green than should be (green shifts towards blue when dark), while many shots of grass appear lime-green (greens shift towards yellow when brighter). I can get it fairly close by pumping up green, but then other colors shift and suffer. As such, I might want to tweak my green settings in the service menu.

Before I start, I want to make sure I understand terminology.

Hue--that would be color itself and adjustment would shift green towards either blue or yellow depending.

Gain--that would be the brightness of the color and adjustment would shift bright to dark

Saturation--that would be the depth of the color and adjustment would shift from pale to deep.

Any help is appreciated.

(patgilm, I'm not sure if your problem is in your receiver or not, but, in general, to save settings, you must name the setting first)
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post #16 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 03:45 PM
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I'm going to try reposting this here since this is probably more the place for it. Any help would be great.

I'm having a hard time with one of the calibration settings on my 65736, but I'm not sure which ones.

Certain light on characters looks almost like makeup applied to the actor. Case in point, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. When Harry and his friends are in the ministry and first confronted by Malfoy and the Death Eaters, the blue light that shines on them is very grainy at the edges and looks like blue makeup powder has been applied. Could someone let me know which setting, or combination of settings controls something like this?

The settings are almost stock and no service level changes have been made. All the colors are flatlined at the stock 31, I believe.

Thanks.

Heath
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post #17 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 05:13 PM
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Glad to see this thread up and running again.

I wanted to post my first completed calibration file so I could get some constructive criticism.

for some reason after calibration the luminance for colors seems off.
the colors xy values seem right to my eye but some ,especially red and blue seem very strong at times. giving the picture a unnatural look.
I cant seem to figure out what is going on here. I am wondering if the inaccurate luminance and gamma may be leading to this or perhaps the blue xy values are causing this issue. I don't know and i am hoping someone with the know how can guide me in the right direction. I cant really do anything about gamma and i think maybe the auto iris may be causing the large inflection in the gamma curve.

I am going to try only adjusting the color in the CMS and not use any color or tint adjustment and see if that will help me get blue closer to reference.

if not for the luminance issues colors would look much better than before as the saturation and hue seem much better.

 

Full Calibration.zip 3.6474609375k . file
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post #18 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdickins View Post


(patgilm, I'm not sure if your problem is in your receiver or not, but, in general, to save settings, you must name the setting first)


I'm not sure what the problem is but I figured out how to keep my settings. If I name the HDMI input 1 AVR the settings will not stay. If I name HDMI input 1, HDMI input 1, the settings stay. I've tried using AVR three times and the same result. Its annoying that I cannot even use the AVR designation and have to use a generic name to keep my video settings but at least I figured out how to save them. Does anyone have this same issue?

As far as the calibration, I read some of the link in the first post above and I think I got an aneurism. Seriously, it looks pretty difficult. However, I will probably give it a shot and order the calibration tools and do it myself.
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post #19 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

Glad to see this thread up and running again.

I wanted to post my first completed calibration file so I could get some constructive criticism.

for some reason after calibration the luminance for colors seems off.
the colors xy values seem right to my eye but some ,especially red and blue seem very strong at times. giving the picture a unnatural look.
I cant seem to figure out what is going on here. I am wondering if the inaccurate luminance and gamma may be leading to this or perhaps the blue xy values are causing this issue. I don't know and i am hoping someone with the know how can guide me in the right direction. I cant really do anything about gamma and i think maybe the auto iris may be causing the large inflection in the gamma curve.

I am going to try only adjusting the color in the CMS and not use any color or tint adjustment and see if that will help me get blue closer to reference.

if not for the luminance issues colors would look much better than before as the saturation and hue seem much better.

Do you happen to have a before calibration file? This will make it easier to give some advice.
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post #20 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 06:49 PM
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well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.
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post #21 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.

sounds good. I noticed that you have notes that you have your color set to 41. This might be giving you the unnatural look you are talking about. Have you tried settings color to it's default and then individually calibrate each color with perfect color and the service menu?
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post #22 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.

I also checked your luminance for your primary colors and they all seem to be a little high. Try taking each down a notch or two in perfect color. I also updated my original post with the target values for primary and secondary colors when you are calibrating. I'd be interested in seeing a before calibration file to see if your gamma was a little more in line, because you are right it does have a definite dip in it after the calibration.

Also on your grayscale blue seems low on most ire values. Try bumping it up a few notches on both the low and high end.
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post #23 of 809 Old 08-12-2008, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcaridon View Post

I'm going to try reposting this here since this is probably more the place for it. Any help would be great.

I'm having a hard time with one of the calibration settings on my 65736, but I'm not sure which ones.

Certain light on characters looks almost like makeup applied to the actor. Case in point, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. When Harry and his friends are in the ministry and first confronted by Malfoy and the Death Eaters, the blue light that shines on them is very grainy at the edges and looks like blue makeup powder has been applied. Could someone let me know which setting, or combination of settings controls something like this?

The settings are almost stock and no service level changes have been made. All the colors are flatlined at the stock 31, I believe.

Thanks.

Sorry, I have never seen the movie and do not have it to test it out. Do you see this on any other movie? What are you watching it on, blu-ray, hd-dvd, dvd?
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post #24 of 809 Old 08-13-2008, 07:08 AM
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Quote:


I also checked your luminance for your primary colors and they all seem to be a little high. Try taking each down a notch or two in perfect color. I also updated my original post with the target values for primary and secondary colors when you are calibrating. I'd be interested in seeing a before calibration file to see if your gamma was a little more in line, because you are right it does have a definite dip in it after the calibration.

Also on your grayscale blue seems low on most ire values. Try bumping it up a few notches on both the low and high end.

after much tinkering I now have a much better understanding of gamma and luminance.

I had to take my tv down to about 21 ftl in order to level out the luminance curve. once there i got very good gamma, finally. you may say that this is below the recommended ftl but in a dark room it's just fine. infact it gives the picture a much more movie theater like brightness to it. I figureed since my set is 65 inches i could get away with a somewhat lower ftl.

my gamma is now about 2.19 flat. luma is correct and i still have about 1600 to 1 contrast ratio.

I cant get 10 ire greyscale flattened out. its about 13 delta e. I know my eye one is reading this low accurately because i can see the color shift in grey with my eyes at 10 ire. I can only hope this doesn't effect real world performance. I may actually sacrifice some accuracy in the mid greyscale for the sake of dialing in the low a little bit better as everything from 20 up in greyscale is at about 1.5 delta e. if I can get 10 ire below 10 delta e I will be happy. I have found that for the formula described in the calibration tutorial for color luminance to work you pretty much need a flat and accurate luminance for greyscale other wise it will throw color luminance off by about the amount that the greyscale luminance is off.

now that my luminance and gamma is right I have hi hopes that my color luminance will dial in correctly with the tutorials formula.

I am going to try color calibration using only the color management system this time around and see if I can get better results, especially in blue however It doesnt seem likely as the standard tint control shouldn't effect the xy coordinates for blue, or red or green for that matter.

I will do color tonight and post the results.
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post #25 of 809 Old 08-13-2008, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

after much tinkering I now have a much better understanding of gamma and luminance.

I had to take my tv down to about 21 ftl in order to level out the luminance curve. once there i got very good gamma, finally. you may say that this is below the recommended ftl but in a dark room it's just fine. infact it gives the picture a much more movie theater like brightness to it. I figureed since my set is 65 inches i could get away with a somewhat lower ftl.

my gamma is now about 2.19 flat. luma is correct and i still have about 1600 to 1 contrast ratio.

I cant get 10 ire greyscale flattened out. its about 13 delta e. I know my eye one is reading this low accurately because i can see the color shift in grey with my eyes at 10 ire. I can only hope this doesn't effect real world performance. I may actually sacrifice some accuracy in the mid greyscale for the sake of dialing in the low a little bit better as everything from 20 up in greyscale is at about 1.5 delta e. if I can get 10 ire below 10 delta e I will be happy. I have found that for the formula described in the calibration tutorial for color luminance to work you pretty much need a flat and accurate luminance for greyscale other wise it will throw color luminance off by about the amount that the greyscale luminance is off.

now that my luminance and gamma is right I have hi hopes that my color luminance will dial in correctly with the tutorials formula.

I am going to try color calibration using only the color management system this time around and see if I can get better results, especially in blue however It doesnt seem likely as the standard tint control shouldn't effect the xy coordinates for blue, or red or green for that matter.

I will do color tonight and post the results.

Glad you got your gamma in line. Just a thought, have you tried lowering CM(RGB)? This might lower your luminance and also not sacrifice your ftl. You'd have to raise your contrast a few notches to compensate but it might bring your luminance curve in line. You might try lowering each 5-10 clicks to see what it does.

Also, I would worry too much about the 10 ire reading. As long as it looks good 30-100 you should be good to go.
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post #26 of 809 Old 08-13-2008, 04:47 PM
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actually, I'm very happy with my luminance curve. yes I have messed with those settings with no good result. any higher in contrast brings the gamma and in effect luminance out of whack no matter what. this set just wants to sit at about 21 to 25 ftl depending on how close the greyscale is in order to obtain flat gamma and luminance. I'm fine with that as its still plenty bright in a light controlled environment. I am going to use the high setting for daytime viewing and i can sacrifice some luminance/gamma accuracy there if needed.

how is cm(rgb) any different than a contrast control for each color with a larger range than the user menu contrast? do you know specifically what its for . I adjusted it quite abit to see what it does and it just looks like contrast.
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post #27 of 809 Old 08-14-2008, 01:31 PM
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I just completed calibrating all three rear HDMI inputs on my WD73835. Each input was calibrated with a different component (XA2 HD DVD, BDP-350 Blu-ray and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR). All my color adjustments were done with “Perfect Color” and “Perfect Tint” in the user menu. This allowed me to independently tune each input.
The user menu color settings ended up very different for each component.
I’m a little disappointed that the settings in the service menu are global. Any settings you change in the service menu apply to all inputs. On my HLR6168 Samsung the settings can be changed independently for each input. The good news is, even though I can’t change the service menu items separately, the picture quality of the Mitsubishi is outstanding compared to the Samsung. I decided to go with the Blu-ray gray scale calibration for the service menu, since that is where I want the best picture quality.
I ended up raising the values for CM(RBG) and then lowering contrast in the user menu. This allowed me get the best gray scale results and the best picture. CM(RBG) seems to handle contrast differently than the user menu contrast.
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post #28 of 809 Old 08-14-2008, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vandu View Post

I just completed calibrating all three rear HDMI inputs on my WD73835. Each input was calibrated with a different component (XA2 HD DVD, BDP-350 Blu-ray and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR). All my color adjustments were done with Perfect Color and Perfect Tint in the user menu. This allowed me to independently tune each input.
The user menu color settings ended up very different for each component.
I'm a little disappointed that the settings in the service menu are global. Any settings you change in the service menu apply to all inputs. On my HLR6168 Samsung the settings can be changed independently for each input. The good news is, even though I can't change the service menu items separately, the picture quality of the Mitsubishi is outstanding compared to the Samsung. I decided to go with the Blu-ray gray scale calibration for the service menu, since that is where I want the best picture quality.
I ended up raising the values for CM(RBG) and then lowering contrast in the user menu. This allowed me get the best gray scale results and the best picture. CM(RBG) seems to handle contrast differently than the user menu contrast.

I had to do the same thing with my set as well, raising CM(RGB) to calibrate the grayscale and bring my color values in line. I agree, it does seem to be a type of contrast but a different one than what you can adjust in the user menu. I glad to hear it all went good. It is a really great picture once it is fully calibrated. My wife still comments on how good it looks.
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post #29 of 809 Old 08-14-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ksbarnz View Post

Glad you got your gamma in line. Just a thought, have you tried lowering CM(RGB)? This might lower your luminance and also not sacrifice your ftl. You'd have to raise your contrast a few notches to compensate but it might bring your luminance curve in line. You might try lowering each 5-10 clicks to see what it does.

Also, I would worry too much about the 10 ire reading. As long as it looks good 30-100 you should be good to go.

I tried sending you a PM regarding the correct way to set the Gamma in the 65835; Which of the settings in the SM, account for the gamma level. It was very clear cut in my Samsung, the service menu had a a gamma heading.

Thank You,
Mark

Mark C.
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post #30 of 809 Old 08-14-2008, 04:40 PM
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there is no specific gamma service menu adjustment. the best way to adjust gamma is with the contrast and brightness setting.
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