Official LaserVue Owners thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2680 Old 05-17-2010, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by the_glassman View Post

And it's up on Amazon now!

http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-L75.../dp/B003KTN0AK

Sticker shock?

It seems from the specifications they made the cabinet much deeper on the years model. Of course it is 10" larger as well. Now where's my 85"?

I'm wondering if the deeper cabinet was needed to fix the light spill issue.

Has anyone heard if these sets support 1:1 pixel mapping, or what the "Advanced Video Calibration -- ISF ccc" is?

Given the previous behavior -- i.e. the original announcement of other laservue sizes that never came to pass -- I wonder if we won't ever see a larger size unit.

Larry
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post #362 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 03:55 AM
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I am wondering if what we are really seeing is an improved "1st generation" LaserVue. I recall that Mitsubishi had repeatedly announced that a larger display in the 70" range would be coming out after the 65" display.

The model number for the 65" model has not changed, and I haven't read anything about a new 65" model. Most talk has been on the 75".

Could production on this model have been held up until which time the shortcomings of the 65" were corrected? Are we sure that this is a "next gen" LaserVue? It may also help to explain the price-point.

I am excited to see it come to market, and am anxiously waiting to read first hand accounts, from those of you who see and/or purchase it.

Spence

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post #363 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

I am wondering if what we are really seeing is an improved "1st generation" LaserVue. I recall that Mitsubishi had repeatedly announced that a larger display in the 70" range would be coming out after the 65" display.

The model number for the 65" model has not changed, and I haven't read anything about a new 65" model. Most talk has been on the 75".

Could production on this model have been held up until which time the shortcomings of the 65" were corrected? Are we sure that this is a "next gen" LaserVue? It may also help to explain the price-point.

I am excited to see it come to market, and am anxiously waiting to read first hand accounts, from those of you who see and/or purchase it.

Spence

based on the service manual, it is 100% different.
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post #364 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

I am wondering if what we are really seeing is an improved "1st generation" LaserVue. I recall that Mitsubishi had repeatedly announced that a larger display in the 70" range would be coming out after the 65" display.
Spence

Exactly. At their June, 2008 announcement they said, "LaserVue will be available in 65" and 73" models with the 65 Diamond shipping to authorized retailers in the third quarter of this year and the 73 Diamond to follow."
I'm sure, now 23 months later, it's a refinement of the original, and although it's price of $5999 is lower than the L65A90's original $6999, it's still going to be a set for the well-to-do enthusiast only. I'd love to have one, but 2nd mortgaging the house is out. And it's hard for me to believe the PQ is $3,200 times better than the 73838's.
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post #365 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

based on the service manual, it is 100% different.

Does the service manual say anything about what the "Advanced Video Calibration -- ISF ccc" is?

Is the service manual available online? What about the regular manual or "user guide" for the new model (L75-A91)? I don't see any of these on the mits website.

Thanks,

Larry
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post #366 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 04:25 PM
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Has anyone here seen one? I found some announcements online of this set being demonstrated at HT stores in some sort of special presentation, but the dates were in April.

Larry
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post #367 of 2680 Old 05-18-2010, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

Has anyone here seen one? I found some announcements online of this set being demonstrated at HT stores in some sort of special presentation, but the dates were in April.

Larry

Two previous poster wrote they were going to see demonstartions of the new LV, but never reported back.
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post #368 of 2680 Old 05-19-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

Does the service manual say anything about what the "Advanced Video Calibration -- ISF ccc" is?


Larry

just download last years owners manual. it explains the advanced picture settings.
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post #369 of 2680 Old 05-20-2010, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

just download last years owners manual. it explains the advanced picture settings.

I actually did that before I posted. I don't see any mention of the feature listed in the older user guide. I also checked the specs for the previous model and don't see the "Advanced Video Calibration -- ISF ccc" feature listed, so this appears to be a new feature. I'm interested in any information anyone might have on this.

Thanks again,

Larry
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post #370 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

I actually did that before I posted. I don't see any mention of the feature listed in the older user guide. I also checked the specs for the previous model and don't see the "Advanced Video Calibration -- ISF ccc" feature listed, so this appears to be a new feature. I'm interested in any information anyone might have on this.

Thanks again,

Larry

Yes, I believe what the spec sheet says is "Advanced Video Calibration - ISFccc" which means the service menues can be accessed and adjusted. Of course, I would think you would want that done by a professional calibrator. By the way, this baby (A91) will be close to perfection from the factory anyway... so if you are a purest, get a professional calibrator and go for the gold. !!!!! NEWS FLASH !!!!! The A91 is shipping from the factory to selected retailers (Totons TV in Crest Hill IL) TODAY!!!! or next week monday at the latest. That means in seven to ten days I will be feasting my eyes on the beast. Yesssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope to have one in my living room next month.
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post #371 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 08:06 AM
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OK... here is the skinny. Last night I stopped over to my favorite TV store to get the latest info on the Laser. I asked if they ordered their floor model yet.... he said, "Yes about a month ago, but he didn't know when they would arrive". And in the same breath, he says.... "but you can ask my sales rep".... I turn arround and in walks the midwest regional sales rep... huffing and puffing with a bunch of equipment. I then ask him when can we expect to see the new LaserVue in showrooms....etc. and he smiles and says "Soon". He then continues to say he just got off the phone (with people in the know) and they are scheduled to leave the factory tomorrow, Friday (TODAY) at the earliest and/or Monday at the latest.

He asked if I had a few minutes to watch a 3D demo .... which was fantastic by the way. I couldn't stay long because I had to pickup my daughter at the airport, but I did find out that the light leakage thing is fixed (redesigned). That's why the depth/shape of the TV has changed from the original model. More Colors (all the colors just poop) and even better picture...and the ISFccc capability. However, he said that the units coming out of the factory should be spot on, but if you are a purist, then the ability to fine tune is made available. So, for those (retailers selling the LaserVue) fortunate enough to be close to the factory, they should be getting a 75" floor model any day now!!!! Also, CLOSEOUT on the 65" is $3499. Once the 75" is in stores the 65" will be dropped (no longer made). Oh and the new 82" Diamond series (non-Laser) will be loaded to the max... WiFi, Soundbar, ethernet, 3D etc.... and should be out July/early August.

I've got to get to work now..... and to all you naysayers.... CHILL!!!!

Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!! :-)
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post #372 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 11:55 AM
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.... More colors (all the colors just poop)...

lol!
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post #373 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 03:07 PM
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lol!

That's what you get when you lack enough sleep... POP!!! Sorry, I'm just running on one brain cell today.

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post #374 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 05:19 PM
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Something has always troubled me with regard to the idea of these sets reproducing "more colors" than other sets.

ISF calibration defines very specific values for color. Given this, if a Laservue is ISF calibrated (using the "Advanced Video Calibration - ISFccc" feature on the latest model), by definition it would not be allowed to reproduce "more colors" than the ISF specs define. If the TV is correctly calibrated, it should reproduce colors exactly as they looked during the mastering of the program material.

How do the laservue sets deal with this situation? Do they offer the ability to do a "true" ISF calibration, which would imply a setting that did NOT reproduce colors outside the ISF specs? Conversely, when they are set to reproduce "more colors" than normally reproduced on HD sets, what standards are used to remap the colors to a wider gamut? These sets might be able to reproduce more saturated colors than other sets, but there needs to be some form of standard to define exactly how specific colors are supposed to look on the display -- i.e. a standard for exactly how any given color is supposed to be reproduced. Being able to reproduce a wider gamut is great, but not if it's just an arbitrary increase in saturation beyond what the ISF specs dictate. I can't seem to find any information on what standards are used when calibrating these sets.

Thanks for any info on this,

Larry
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post #375 of 2680 Old 05-21-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

Something has always troubled me with regard to the idea of these sets reproducing "more colors" than other sets.

ISF calibration defines very specific values for color. Given this, if a Laservue is ISF calibrated (using the "Advanced Video Calibration - ISFccc" feature on the latest model), by definition it would not be allowed to reproduce "more colors" than the ISF specs define. If the TV is correctly calibrated, it should reproduce colors exactly as they looked during the mastering of the program material.

How do the laservue sets deal with this situation? Do they offer the ability to do a "true" ISF calibration, which would imply a setting that did NOT reproduce colors outside the ISF specs? Conversely, when they are set to reproduce "more colors" than normally reproduced on HD sets, what standards are used to remap the colors to a wider gamut? These sets might be able to reproduce more saturated colors than other sets, but there needs to be some form of standard to define exactly how specific colors are supposed to look on the display -- i.e. a standard for exactly how any given color is supposed to be reproduced. Being able to reproduce a wider gamut is great, but not if it's just an arbitrary increase in saturation beyond what the ISF specs dictate. I can't seem to find any information on what standards are used when calibrating these sets.

Thanks for any info on this,

Larry

I can see your point... however, I look at it a little differently. Since the A91 has six different settings (Super Brilliant, Brilliant, Bright, Natural, Cinema, and Game modes), why can't I have one or two of those settings calibrated to ISF specs... (for example Natural or Cinema) and enjoy the expanded spectrum on other material. I'm just happy Mitz decided to give us the ability to at least have access to those menu's. I'm sure some famous calibrator out there will get his / her hands on one of these Lasers and report on the results.
Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!
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post #376 of 2680 Old 05-22-2010, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tron49 View Post

I can see your point... however, I look at it a little differently. Since the A91 has six different settings (Super Brilliant, Brilliant, Bright, Natural, Cinema, and Game modes), why can't I have one or two of those settings calibrated to ISF specs... (for example Natural or Cinema) and enjoy the expanded spectrum on other material. I'm just happy Mitz decided to give us the ability to at least have access to those menu's. I'm sure some famous calibrator out there will get his / her hands on one of these Lasers and report on the results.
Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!

That's fine IF there is some standard for calibrating the "extended" range that the set offers. Without such standards, your set could reproduce colors differently than mine. Both would be beyond the normal ISF range (i.e. the extended gamut that these sets offer), but one might be a little cooler, the other warmer. ISF has specific numbers for this, which means that ALL ISF calibrated sets should look the same (the whole point.) I would certainly think that Mits has standards for this as well -- I'm just curious what these standards are and where they're listed.

On top of this, you have the issue of exactly how the color values are remapped to the wider gamut (given that the original source does not actually define these "extended" colors.) For example, given a certain value defined in the program material, some sort of standard needs to exist to specifically define EXACTLY how this color should be reproduced on the extended gamut laservue. Who came up with this standard, and more importantly, where do calibrators get this information? I'm fine with more saturation, but what steps were taken to ensure that the extended colors don't create something that the original author would call "incorrect"?

Larry
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post #377 of 2680 Old 05-22-2010, 08:14 AM
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The thing I don't like about the 65'' Laservue model was the NVida 3D checkerboard solution they had in it. That splits the 1080p into 1/2 (540) for each eye, which I assume means a degraded HD PQ?

Hopefully this new Laservue 75'' implements a more broad 3D solution. Would be nice if we could find this out.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #378 of 2680 Old 05-22-2010, 09:24 AM
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Here is a good article from maximumpc debunking the more color gimmick. Also a few other marketing hoopla.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...red?page=0%2C3
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post #379 of 2680 Old 05-22-2010, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tron49 View Post

Yes, I believe what the spec sheet says is "Advanced Video Calibration - ISFccc" which means the service menues can be accessed and adjusted. Of course, I would think you would want that done by a professional calibrator. By the way, this baby (A91) will be close to perfection from the factory anyway... so if you are a purest, get a professional calibrator and go for the gold. !!!!! NEWS FLASH !!!!! The A91 is shipping from the factory to selected retailers (Totons TV in Crest Hill IL) TODAY!!!! or next week monday at the latest. That means in seven to ten days I will be feasting my eyes on the beast. Yesssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope to have one in my living room next month.

COOL! I live about 20 minutes from Totons. Let us know when it is in. I shoot out and take a look.
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post #380 of 2680 Old 05-23-2010, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tron49 View Post

OK... here is the skinny. Last night I stopped over to my favorite TV store to get the latest info on the Laser. I asked if they ordered their floor model yet.... he said, "Yes about a month ago, but he didn't know when they would arrive". And in the same breath, he says.... "but you can ask my sales rep".... I turn arround and in walks the midwest regional sales rep... huffing and puffing with a bunch of equipment. I then ask him when can we expect to see the new LaserVue in showrooms....etc. and he smiles and says "Soon". He then continues to say he just got off the phone (with people in the know) and they are scheduled to leave the factory tomorrow, Friday (TODAY) at the earliest and/or Monday at the latest.

He asked if I had a few minutes to watch a 3D demo .... which was fantastic by the way. I couldn't stay long because I had to pickup my daughter at the airport, but I did find out that the light leakage thing is fixed (redesigned). That's why the depth/shape of the TV has changed from the original model. More Colors (all the colors just poop) and even better picture...and the ISFccc capability. However, he said that the units coming out of the factory should be spot on, but if you are a purist, then the ability to fine tune is made available. So, for those (retailers selling the LaserVue) fortunate enough to be close to the factory, they should be getting a 75" floor model any day now!!!! Also, CLOSEOUT on the 65" is $3499. Once the 75" is in stores the 65" will be dropped (no longer made). Oh and the new 82" Diamond series (non-Laser) will be loaded to the max... WiFi, Soundbar, ethernet, 3D etc.... and should be out July/early August.

I've got to get to work now..... and to all you naysayers.... CHILL!!!!

Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!! :-)

so no 65" model then - It is looking more as though Mitsubishi has listened to those of us, who claimed that $7K for 65" was a bit high. Scaling up the chassis and correcting the issues, while lowering the price a bit, brings the TV closer to afford-ability for some of us, and certainly makes the premium price more palatable for those of us on the fence.

Does anyone else think, that the chassis being released is the planned 70+" brother to the 65" that was actually released? Mitsubishi had only to correct the bugs and add some marketing mumbo-jumbo to come up with a "new and improved" version, and then slap them in the larger display chassis that they had laying around in storage.

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post #381 of 2680 Old 05-24-2010, 12:30 PM
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[quote=tron49;18667491]Yes, I believe what the spec sheet says is "Advanced Video Calibration - ISFccc" which means the service menues can be accessed and adjusted. Of course, I would think you would want that done by a professional calibrator. By the way, this baby (A91) will be close to perfection from the factory anyway... so if you are a purest, get a professional calibrator and go for the gold. !!!!! NEWS FLASH !!!!! The A91 is shipping from the factory to selected retailers (Totons TV in Crest Hill IL) TODAY!!!! or next week monday at the latest. That means in seven to ten days I will be feasting my eyes on the beast. Yesssssssss!!!!!!!!!!

Great news...

Do you (or anyone) have a sense that this new "super bright" setting has to do with (what I think) is the lack of brightness once you get to the 3D mode?

1. Went to a Samsung 3D demo and discovered that most of the picture settings are unavailable in the 3D mode. Do we know if this is true of the new Lasers?

2. This year's has something called "Variable smooth motion 120." Is this the same as last year's "smooth motion 120" or something different???

3. Is it too early to know if the HDMI ports are 1.4 or 1.4a or the old 1.3's.

4.How about the DLP chip same as last year ??????
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post #382 of 2680 Old 05-24-2010, 12:53 PM
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Houston, the L75-A91 has landed! Will post pics as soon as I can....
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post #383 of 2680 Old 05-24-2010, 05:34 PM
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Houston, the L75-A91 has landed! Will post pics as soon as I can....

Oh-Yeah! Geek if you can please find out if the HDMI are 1.3 or the new 1.4?

& if possible find out if they implemented the same "checkerboard" 3D solution as the 65'' model or they added a new 3D solution (hopefully new) thanks a zillion.

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post #384 of 2680 Old 05-24-2010, 09:02 PM
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Now that the 75 is out Vanns have the 65 for 3K. It is very tentative but I have to wait until the price of the 75 settle down; Can you imaging from 7K down to 3K they all making a killing on this tvs.
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post #385 of 2680 Old 05-25-2010, 12:35 PM
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Now that the 75 is out Vanns have the 65 for 3K. It is very tentative but I have to wait until the price of the 75 settle down; Can you imaging from 7K down to 3K they all making a killing on this tvs.

Actually....no. Vann's is taking a bath to clear out their inventory. That model never wholesaled for anywhere near that price.
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post #386 of 2680 Old 05-25-2010, 01:50 PM
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Actually....no. Vann's is taking a bath to clear out their inventory. That model never wholesaled for anywhere near that price.

Ru maybe you have more knowledge than I do but how come the none dealers could sell them for 3.5K and now form 3.8K, that's not too far out from 3K.

Now too all of you out there is a worth it to buy it or not in the event of the 75" going on now; knowing the issues of the light and so forth.
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post #387 of 2680 Old 05-25-2010, 07:21 PM
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Ru maybe you have more knowledge than I do but how come the none dealers could sell them for 3.5K and now form 3.8K, that's not too far out from 3K.

Now too all of you out there is a worth it to buy it or not in the event of the 75" going on now; knowing the issues of the light and so forth.


Ok... let me see if I can Nuke this out. First of all, the 65" was new technology two years ago and Mitz could charge what the market would bear. I believe that the MSRP was $6999, however, the retailers (Toton's as an example) quoted me $5999.00 within the first two weeks of being on the market. I'm sure they (the retailers ) had some margin to work with and still make a profit. Now, that the 75" has arrived, the retailers have to clear out their inventory and Mitz has probably given them a closeout price.... in the case of Toton's TV in Crest Hill IL, they quoted me $3499.00 to purchase the 65" floor model. If this is less than they paid for it....Oh well they lose.
But I'm sure that Mitzi will give them some credit in purchasing the new models if they lost money on the remaining 65" in stock. I don't think there should be much stock left over (other then floor models) since Toton's sold every one of the more than twenty lasers that had been ordered in their store alone.

Now this quote..... "but how come the none dealers could sell them for 3.5K and now form 3.8K, that's not too far out from 3K."..... I'm not sure what you're are trying to covey here.


As for you're second quote...."Now too all of you out there is a worth it to buy it or not in the event of the 75" going on now; knowing the issues of the light and so forth.".....If the price is right for you (on the 65") then go for it. I can barely see the light leakage on the floor model at Toton's. You would have to have all the lights off in the room and no media/source (black screen) to see a slight .... and I mean a very slight light from the bottom of the screen. I had them turn off the lights and it was barely noticeable... but noticeable just the same. If you can live with that, then by all means go for it!!!!! I certainly would, if 65" was the largest size that I could put in my livingroom. Bottom line... to each his own.

Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!!!
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post #388 of 2680 Old 05-25-2010, 07:32 PM
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COOL! I live about 20 minutes from Totons. Let us know when it is in. I shoot out and take a look.

For sure! I'll try and take some pictures.... and hopefully by the end of next month I'll have one in my living room. YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we'll see each other and double team them with questions.

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post #389 of 2680 Old 05-25-2010, 08:20 PM
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If the price is right for you (on the 65") then go for it. I can barely see the light leakage on the floor model at Toton's. You would have to have all the lights off in the room and no media/source (black screen) to see a slight .... and I mean a very slight light from the bottom of the screen. I had them turn off the lights and it was barely noticeable... but noticeable just the same. If you can live with that, then by all means go for it!!!!! I certainly would, if 65" was the largest size that I could put in my livingroom. Bottom line... to each his own.

Do you think that the 65" laser, assuming one could get it for $3500, is worth it in comparison to the 65837 at half the price? I have a 5 year old 52" Mits DLP and it's time for something new. One of the things I've always liked about the DLP is the flat image - perfectly flat whites and blacks - and we quite often watch in a dark room. I'd really like to go for a laser and am disappointed that the new ones are just too big for our living room (even 65" is pushing it). Any thoughts?
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post #390 of 2680 Old 05-26-2010, 08:46 AM
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Do you think that the 65" laser, assuming one could get it for $3500, is worth it in comparison to the 65837 at half the price? I have a 5 year old 52" Mits DLP and it's time for something new. One of the things I've always liked about the DLP is the flat image - perfectly flat whites and blacks - and we quite often watch in a dark room. I'd really like to go for a laser and am disappointed that the new ones are just too big for our living room (even 65" is pushing it). Any thoughts?



I have a 32" Mitzi CRT from 1988 that is in excellent condition .... beautiful picture and when I first saw the 65" LaserVue I was impressed with the detail and the colors (the HD loop with the Samurai armor)... just awesome. I also compared the Diamond Series 73" side by side with the Laser and it was very close. However, the thing that sells me is the fact that it

1.) is a laser and the light output will remain the same, whereas the bulb output will decrease over time (not to mention sudden bulb failure).

2.) no moving parts (has no color wheel), however the Laser 65" does have the glass screen that moves.... but the 75" doesn't.

3.) and lastly I've been lucky to talk to some Laser owners (that purchased from Toton's) and have had them in their homes for a year now and are completely satisfied.

Have a wonderful Nuclear Day!!!!
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