Official LaserVue Owners thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

....So it looks like as long as my surround sound processor passes the signal through and my HDMI cables are up to it, I may only need to purchase a pair of DLP Link shutter glasses to give 3D a try. That's a pretty inexpensive way to try it out compared to having to buy the 3D adapter kit.

Two pairs of glasses (don't tell me you are going to watch 3D all by yourself!) are going to run you at least $200-$250. You can get the 3DC-1000 Starter Pack (which includes 2 pr.) for just a bit more than that ($299). That way, you'll get the source flexibility described in my post above plus all the other extras in the starter pack: a Disney 3D Blu-ray, high-speed HDMI cable and other extras. Just saying.
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post #632 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by broodwich View Post

Thanks to Geekman and Tron for the info posted on the new LaserVue.

Geekman, I don't think there are any LED backlit plasmas.

Does anyone know if Mitsubishi plans to release new LaserVue sets in different sizes? The 75 probably too big for my custom built entertainment center.

You, sir, have an eagle eye! Some words got dropped in the editing process. My post has now been corrected to read: "At 154 lbs., it is lighter than some plasmas of this size and even many LCD models (especially those from previous years, prior to the introduction of LED backlighting)."

For right now, 75" is the largest planned. You might still be able to find the 65", as well, if you need to go smaller to fit your cabinetry.
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post #633 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

For right now, 75" is the largest planned. You might still be able to find the 65", as well, if you need to go smaller to fit your cabinetry.

Yeah I don't want to go bigger just a bit smaller. I currently have an HP md5880n which has a problem with the light engine. It's a common problem with the HP. It's a 58 inch and I don't want to go smaller. I designed my entertainment center to fit a 65 inch HP which had a much bigger footprint than even today's DLPs.

The 65 inch LaserVue would probably be perfect but what I was wondering is if Mitsubishi plans to update the 65 with the new features found in this new A91 series. Has anyone done a comparison of the A90 and A91 series?
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post #634 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 09:55 AM
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Just got my 75" LaserVue yesterday. The store sent me the floor unit temporarily while I wait for my new set to come in, since I ordered over a month ago and I'm guessing they didn't want me to cancel my order after waiting for so long.

I spent quite some time poking around all of the options in the menus. I'm excited about the ISF calibration feature, and plan to have a professional calibrator tweak the set soon. I also played around with the 120Hz smooth motion feature, and I was blown away by it - I've never seen a tv do this before. What's cool about the feature is that you have 10 levels of smoothing to choose from. I found that the ideal setting is somewhere in the 4 to 6 range - any less, and the picture looks like a regular set. Any more, and the motion smoothing makes the film appear to run at a higher framerate (it looks like all of the action is sped up).

The colors and black level are simply stunning. I had a blu-ray on last night in Cinema mode (bright, brilliant and super brilliant are WAY too bright for nighttime viewing) and I'd have to say the PQ came damn close to my old Qualia 006. In fact, I'm guessing when my new replacement set comes in, coupled with professional calibration, I can get it to surpass the PQ of the Q.
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post #635 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 10:17 AM
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I own an uncalibrated 65" LV, but I have adjusted some settings to please my eye. Unfortunately, every time the power is cut, the set returns to the factory defaults. Does anyone know if a professional calibration would be retained after a power outtage?
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post #636 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

This is the $64,000 question. Based on a calibration done by UMR, the black level of the first Laservue was .025. Compared to the Elite 151's .001, there was no comparison. I don't believe a DLP RPTV could ever approach the black level of the Kuro, regardless of the light source.

There is no question that the Laservue has the size and uses far less energy than plasma or LCD. Both of those technologies have made great strides and are approaching CRT black levels. I'm looking forward to a review of the new Laservue to see what Mits has done about the original set's poor black level.

Using an iris or attenuating the light source can render black levels near or below a Kuro with a DLP. However, black level is only a single parameter of a quality picture.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #637 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spp88 View Post

I own an uncalibrated 65" LV, but I have adjusted some settings to please my eye. Unfortunately, every time the power is cut, the set returns to the factory defaults. Does anyone know if a professional calibration would be retained after a power outtage?

I am not aware of Mitsubishi losing settings from a power failure. You can test this yourself by disconnecting the power cord for 30 minutes and see if you lose your settings.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #638 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

Two pairs of glasses (don't tell me you are going to watch 3D all by yourself!) are going to run you at least $200-$250. You can get the 3DC-1000 Starter Pack (which includes 2 pr.) for just a bit more than that ($299). That way, you'll get the source flexibility described in my post above plus all the other extras in the starter pack: a Disney 3D Blu-ray, high-speed HDMI cable and other extras. Just saying.

Understood, but I actually would be watching it by myself for the moment and already have the computer configuration with the pieces to send the checkerboard format out. Given the very limited material available right now, I'm more interested in getting a feel for how well it works and would prefer to keep the investment minimal until there's more material to work with. Also the starter pack introduces extra stuff / clutter into the system (more cables and boxes) that I'd just assume not have for now. For about $120 I can get a pair of glasses and play around with it - that's all I'm looking for at the moment.
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post #639 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

There is no output on the L75-A91 into which he can plug the Synch Emitter. It can only be plugged into the Signal Adapter.

Really? So what's that port labeled "3D Glasses Emitter" on the back of the LaserVue for then?

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/specsheet-A91.pdf
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post #640 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

This issue was addressed a month ago in this thread:

That's actually 960x540 per eye, or half of the 1920x1080 resolution of the TV. I'd honestly have to compare visually how that looks compared to the Panny VT25 series. I saw the 54" model at BB yesterday and the 3D was stunning. No cross talk whatsoever.

I'm definitely interested in the LV, so I would love to see a 3D demo on that as well. I just wonder if perceptually I will be able to see a difference between 1920x1080 per eye and 960x540 per eye.


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post #641 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

That's actually 960x540 per eye, or half of the 1920x1080 resolution of the TV. I'd honestly have to compare visually how that looks compared to the Panny VT25 series. I saw the 54" model at BB yesterday and the 3D was stunning. No cross talk whatsoever.

I'm definitely interested in the LV, so I would love to see a 3D demo on that as well. I just wonder if perceptually I will be able to see a difference between 1920x1080 per eye and 960x540 per eye.

Not to revisit what has been discussed Ad nauseam, but after much reading, I was under the impression (and this may be somewhat simplified, so correct me if I'm wrong) that instead of 1080p 120Hz 2D, the display output 3D at 1080p 60Hz?

Perhaps RU Geekman can put it into layman's terms?

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post #642 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

This is the $64,000 question. Based on a calibration done by UMR, the black level of the first Laservue was .025. Compared to the Elite 151's .001, there was no comparison. I don't believe a DLP RPTV could ever approach the black level of the Kuro, regardless of the light source.

There is no question that the Laservue has the size and uses far less energy than plasma or LCD. Both of those technologies have made great strides and are approaching CRT black levels. I'm looking forward to a review of the new Laservue to see what Mits has done about the original set's poor black level.

Don't forget that the black level starts increasing on these Kuro's due to a pre-programmed brightness control due to aging.

Therefore, your .001 becomes a moot point (so to speak)
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post #643 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

Not to revisit what has been discussed Ad nauseam, but after much reading, I was under the impression (and this may be somewhat simplified, so correct me if I'm wrong) that instead of 1080p 120Hz 2D, the display output 3D at 1080p 60Hz?

Perhaps RU Geekman can put it into layman's terms?

From what I've read, it doesn't appear that's how it works. However, that would be nice if it did. I also hope that they mean to update the LV with all of the other '10 with the other formats via a firmware update. It would be good to not have to have the adapter to view all of the formats.


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post #644 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Midiguru View Post

Just got my 75" LaserVue yesterday. The store sent me the floor unit temporarily while I wait for my new set to come in, since I ordered over a month ago and I'm guessing they didn't want me to cancel my order after waiting for so long.

I spent quite some time poking around all of the options in the menus. I'm excited about the ISF calibration feature, and plan to have a professional calibrator tweak the set soon. I also played around with the 120Hz smooth motion feature, and I was blown away by it - I've never seen a tv do this before. What's cool about the feature is that you have 10 levels of smoothing to choose from. I found that the ideal setting is somewhere in the 4 to 6 range - any less, and the picture looks like a regular set. Any more, and the motion smoothing makes the film appear to run at a higher framerate (it looks like all of the action is sped up).

The colors and black level are simply stunning. I had a blu-ray on last night in Cinema mode (bright, brilliant and super brilliant are WAY too bright for nighttime viewing) and I'd have to say the PQ came damn close to my old Qualia 006. In fact, I'm guessing when my new replacement set comes in, coupled with professional calibration, I can get it to surpass the PQ of the Q.



Now you got me so excited that I'm going to take an early weekend off and drive home to play around with my set!!!!!

Now, I've got to get a BLUE RAY Oppo. Yesssssss!
Patience Grasshopper.....
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post #645 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 03:33 PM
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Good to see "UMR" posting again. Hey bud, looks like you'll be making another $$$.00 off me on another Audio/Video calibration later this yr.
Just need to break in the TV a while before you work your magic.

TV scheduled for delivery tomorrow, can't wait.

RU Geekman, appreciate your constant updates via Email, will contact you over the wkend. In need of a new 3D AV Receiver & Blu-Ray player. Oh & I hope you set aside a 3D starter kit for me.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #646 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 04:02 PM
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Good to see "UMR" posting again. Hey bud, looks like you'll be making another $$$.00 off me on another Audio/Video calibration later this yr.
Just need to break in the TV a while before you work your magic.

TV scheduled for delivery tomorrow, can't wait...

It will be fun. I will be back in October. Sign up soon because my list for that trip is already nearly full. These sets are crazy tricky to setup well as well.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #647 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 04:03 PM
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And if the OB in my Q dies (again) soon, he will be getting a call from me also to calibrate the LV...
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post #648 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Using an iris or attenuating the light source can render black levels near or below a Kuro with a DLP. However, black level is only a single parameter of a quality picture.

The question is whether or not the Laservue DOES use any such techniques. In my reading I haven't seen any information that says it does. On this note, using an iris often causes a "breathing" effect where the black level clearly varies as the on-screen content changes, which can be pretty annoying.

It's true that black level is only one parameter, but it's a VERY important one in my opinion, and with newer plasmas getting really good at black levels, I think that this is one of the primary areas that currently separates sets, and will be one of the main points of competition moving forward (sort of like contrast ratio has been up to now.) That said, I think that black level is still an area that is often completely overlooked in sets these days. Manufactures put far more effort into inflating contrast ratio numbers by using overly bright images rather than by reducing black level.

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post #649 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

Using an iris or attenuating the light source can render black levels near or below a Kuro with a DLP. However, black level is only a single parameter of a quality picture.

Spot on.

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Originally Posted by umr View Post

I am not aware of Mitsubishi losing settings from a power failure. You can test this yourself by disconnecting the power cord for 30 minutes and see if you lose your settings.

If that were the case, it would put you out of business, wouldn't it? Sounds like sp88 may have a defective unit.

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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Understood, but I actually would be watching it by myself for the moment and already have the computer configuration with the pieces to send the checkerboard format out. Given the very limited material available right now, I'm more interested in getting a feel for how well it works and would prefer to keep the investment minimal until there's more material to work with. Also the starter pack introduces extra stuff / clutter into the system (more cables and boxes) that I'd just assume not have for now. For about $120 I can get a pair of glasses and play around with it - that's all I'm looking for at the moment.

Then go for it! Just realize that if you ever want to get 3D from your cable or satellite provider, you are most likely going to need that adapter -- one for each non-checkerboard source you might use. I am not sure how the DLP Link glasses would then fit into the equation. I assume they would still work via the output on the TV (thanks, tallen94, for pointing that out).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

That's actually 960x540 per eye, or half of the 1920x1080 resolution of the TV. I'd honestly have to compare visually how that looks compared to the Panny VT25 series. I saw the 54" model at BB yesterday and the 3D was stunning. No cross talk whatsoever.

I'm definitely interested in the LV, so I would love to see a 3D demo on that as well. I just wonder if perceptually I will be able to see a difference between 1920x1080 per eye and 960x540 per eye.

As umr (Jeff) pointed out, there are many aspects to picture quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

Not to revisit what has been discussed Ad nauseam, but after much reading, I was under the impression (and this may be somewhat simplified, so correct me if I'm wrong) that instead of 1080p 120Hz 2D, the display output 3D at 1080p 60Hz?

Perhaps RU Geekman can put it into layman's terms?

You are getting 60 Hz per eye in a checkerboard format. A total of 1,036,800 pixels are shown per eye and the set displays each eye 60 times per second, for a total of 62,208,000 pixels refreshed per eye, per second. Again, there are many components that make up picture quality and raw pixel count is just one of them. Also, bear in mind that, compared with the 65" model, Mitsubishi has improved the algorithms used in their Plush 1080p 5G 12-bit Video Processor. I would be very surprised if you noticed any deficiency in the number of pixels or the way they are processed and displayed. I certainly couldn't. But only your own eyes can be the judge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

From what I've read, it doesn't appear that's how it works. However, that would be nice if it did. I also hope that they mean to update the LV with all of the other '10 with the other formats via a firmware update. It would be good to not have to have the adapter to view all of the formats.

Neither the LaserVue nor the signal adapter are firmware updateable in terms of 3D formats. The signal adapter converts all of the required, and some of the optional, formats specified under HDMI 1.4a: the various flavors of side/side, top/bottom and frame packing.
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post #650 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

Just realize that if you ever want to get 3D from your cable or satellite provider, you are most likely going to need that adapter -- one for each non-checkerboard source you might use.

Right, though assuming a switcher that can handle the 3D content is used, 1 adapter would probably work for multiple sources.
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Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

I am not sure how the DLP Link glasses would then fit into the equation. I assume they would still work via the output on the TV (thanks, tallen94, for pointing that out).

That would be my assumption too - once the signal is converted to checkerboard format, the glasses ought to just work. So if I decide I like the 3D effect, I could later buy additional glasses and just the signal adapter if I any other sources that need it.
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post #651 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

Neither the LaserVue nor the signal adapter are firmware updateable in terms of 3D formats. The signal adapter converts all of the required, and some of the optional, formats specified under HDMI 1.4a: the various flavors of side/side, top/bottom and frame packing.

I wouldn't expect the signal adapter to be. What would be the point? It does what it does.

The LV, however, I would have hoped that they would have enabled it to be firmware update-able just like the bulb based units. The bulb based units are going to get a firmware update to enable them to accept the other types of 3D input formats. Oh well.

I do find it suspect that the LV is unable to update firmware. That would be a very strange thing for Mits to do. Even my 6 yr old 1st gen Mits DLP can have its firmware updated.


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post #652 of 2712 Old 06-24-2010, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

I wouldn't expect the signal adapter to be. What would be the point? It does what it does.

The LV, however, I would have hoped that they would have enabled it to be firmware update-able just like the bulb based units. The bulb based units are going to get a firmware update to enable them to accept the other types of 3D input formats. Oh well.

I do find it suspect that the LV is unable to update firmware. That would be a very strange thing for Mits to do. Even my 6 yr old 1st gen Mits DLP can have its firmware updated.

The LaserVue's 3D compatibility cannot be updated via firmware. My Mitsubishi rep explained that when they were designing this model not all the 3D formats had been finalized, hence the decision to employ a signal adapter. I'll check as to whether any of the other aspects of this model's operations can be updated via firmware.
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post #653 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 06:59 AM
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One thing I like is that it is even heavier than its 82" bulb based counterpart. This tells me that they really stepped up the build quality. For the premium price of this unit, that is definitely something good to see.

I was really hoping they would take lessons learned from the previous model and apply them. It looks like that is the case. Way to go Mits!


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post #654 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 07:52 AM
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10:52am EST set up my new TV stand, cleaned & organized the TV area & cables, now just waiting around for my LV to arrive. Scheduled between 3-7pm.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #655 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 08:34 AM
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10:52am EST set up my new TV stand, cleaned & organized the TV area & cables, now just waiting around for my LV to arrive. Scheduled between 3-7pm.

Waiting for my order from RU too. Looks like you've got it all set up except the set~ Hope it arrive to you in one piece!
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post #656 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
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If that were the case, it would put you out of business, wouldn't it? Sounds like sp88 may have a defective unit.

If quality products lost their memory with a power loss it would be a problem for me and their owners. If it was only Mits it would not really matter to my business. Mits does not comprise a large percentage of my clientele.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #657 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by yokhok View Post

Waiting for my order from RU too. Looks like you've got it all set up except the set~ Hope it arrive to you in one piece!


Thanks. Yeah, just waiting for the delivery crew to call & arrive. It's like torture, sitting here w/ a empty TV stand.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #658 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TMSKILZ View Post

Thanks. Yeah, just waiting for the delivery crew to call & arrive. It's like torture, sitting here w/ a empty TV stand.

I just called the shipping company and they said they would be to your place within the hour.
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post #659 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 03:43 PM
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TV arrived a little while ago, delivery crew unwrapped & set it on my stand & been flipping through channels & adjusting/tweaking the picture settings for a good PQ as best I can, since I lack complete knowledge of PQ settings.

RU Geekman thank you again for everything, you definitely came through, will be contacting you down the road for purchase of a 3D AV Receiver & Blu-Ray player. Will post a more detailed writeup of my whole experience w/ RU Geekman & w/ the L75-A91 in the coming days.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #660 of 2712 Old 06-25-2010, 06:01 PM
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If I'm correct, that's 3 delivered and counting. No word on mine yet. My FR's being repainted and the stand's being built in the meantime. You guy's are killing me!!!
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