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post #121 of 2680 Old 02-07-2009, 09:40 PM
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Granted, I lack the technical expertise to properly state my case. However, my visualization prowess allows me to see what is, and understand what can be. That's what I'm trying to convey here. I know. Not very scientific, but it has never led me astray. One colorful screen shot of a properly set up and calibrated LV (build 1.5?) should answer all questions. I have high hopes for this piece of technology...and it does 3-D too!

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post #122 of 2680 Old 02-07-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninthdragon View Post

Granted, I lack the technical expertise to properly state my case. However, my visualization prowess allows me to see what is, and understand what can be. That's what I'm trying to convey here. I know. Not very scientific, but it has never led me astray. One colorful screen shot of a properly set up and calibrated LV (build 1.5?) should answer all questions. I have high hopes for this piece of technology...and it does 3-D too!

You keep using the buzz word "calibrated".

CALIBRATED TO WHAT SPEC?

There are no standards for the wide gamut that the LV has to that it should be calibrated to....

Sure, you can make sure that white is white....but that is REC 709 white and the primaries (and secondaries) will not fall on the x,y coordinates for REC 709.

So what magical buzz word "calibration" spec are you referring to?

And as for 3d, virtually any 120hz TV will do it - again, there are much cheaper alternatives with incorrect wide gamut and 120hz than $7k.
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post #123 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 01:37 AM
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I trust Kevin Miller (a founding member of the ISF and a member of this forum) to calibrate the LV to his standards. I am sure that when he tells me I am "good to go", I'll have no complaints. I believe the LV will set the bar fairly high for image quality, but that, however, remains to be seen. Let's just say I'm a glass half full kind of person. Let's all hope that this tale will be (well) told in six or eight weeks.

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post #124 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninthdragon View Post

I trust Kevin Miller (a founding member of the ISF and a member of this forum) to calibrate the LV to his standards. I am sure that when he tells me I am "good to go", I'll have no complaints. I believe the LV will set the bar fairly high for image quality, but that, however, remains to be seen. Let's just say I'm a glass half full kind of person. Let's all hope that this tale will be (well) told in six or eight weeks.

What doesn't remain to be seen is the Laservue has a poor black level, speckling(pick your own term for screen crawl) and, according to the color points posted by UMR on the set he calibrated, inaccurate color. Not the worst, but not as good as the near perfect color UMR was able to achieve when he calibrated by HLS 6188.

The laservue can do some very interesting things with color. That is the very thing Mits is pushing with its advertising. While it may not set the mark for accuracy, it is kind of cool to look at none the less.
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post #125 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninthdragon View Post

I trust Kevin Miller (a founding member of the ISF and a member of this forum) to calibrate the LV to his standards. I am sure that when he tells me I am "good to go", I'll have no complaints. I believe the LV will set the bar fairly high for image quality, but that, however, remains to be seen. Let's just say I'm a glass half full kind of person. Let's all hope that this tale will be (well) told in six or eight weeks.

So now we have REC 601, REC 709 and Kevin Miller 001 - nice

I wonder how Joel Silver would feel about that.

I suspect that Kevin Miller would tell you that he would calibrate it to REC 709, which again, would eliminate the wide gamut and incorrect colors, which are the qualities you have stated in your previous posts that you like.

So again, if you want wider color gamut with incorrect colors, including the green that is off the scale, there are much cheaper sets that will give you that. If you want a set that displays correct REC 709 color points, there are also cheaper sets.
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post #126 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 02:34 PM
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Does everyone understand how unrepresentative a screen shot of your TV using some cheap digital camera is?

You would need a color calibrated camera shooting RAW to get something closely representative of the actual picture.
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post #127 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree that's why I'm so reluctant to post pictures. I agree with Frank
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post #128 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankR2 View Post

Does everyone understand how unrepresentative a screen shot of your TV using some cheap digital camera is?

You would need a color calibrated camera shooting RAW to get something closely representative of the actual picture.

Not only that, unless you had a Sony OLED as a monitor, how could one tell much of anything on even a better LCD monitor?
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post #129 of 2680 Old 02-08-2009, 11:25 PM
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1. Set is uncalibrated. I've done what I could using Avia.
2. Not going to pay for calibration until my set works perfectly. Someone is coming out to inspect the white blur issue. I reviewed the other Laservue set nearby and the blur did not exist on that set.
3. Cheap camera? Thanks. Actually it was kinda expensive. $500 or so. Perhaps if I didn't have to dumb down the photo from 4 megs to 400k it wouldn't look so crappy.
4. Colors wrong? No, colors right! Try watching an episode of Ugly Betty. I picked that show because of it over the top colors. It's intentional.
5. Doubling the color gamut is wrong? Brilliant setting is wrong? Well then 480p is wrong if you are watching analog. and 1080p is wrong if your watching HDTV and 1080i is wrong if you are watching ABC. Trek TOS is wrong with new special effects. Wait, before you answer that, Red Dwarf is also wrong with new special effects. Oh forget it, point five is a personal choice.
6. Unmentioned power usage: On = 96~100 watts, off = 42 watts. Powersave = 0 watts. Really! It's the same as unplugging the TV. Of course it takes a minute to warm up but wow, it's really off off.
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post #130 of 2680 Old 02-09-2009, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevEB View Post

4. Colors wrong? No, colors right! Try watching an episode of Ugly Betty. I picked that show because of it over the top colors. It's intentional.

5. Doubling the color gamut is wrong? Brilliant setting is wrong? Well then 480p is wrong if you are watching analog. and 1080p is wrong if your watching HDTV and 1080i is wrong if you are watching ABC. Trek TOS is wrong with new special effects. Wait, before you answer that, Red Dwarf is also wrong with new special effects. Oh forget it, point five is a personal choice.

Color gamut has nothing to do with the resolution.

Clearly, you need to do some additional homework.

The color gamut is incorrect - bottom line - end of story.

If that is your personal preference, that's great - its your TV and if you want everyone purple like Barney, that's also your choice - however, not accurate means its not right.

And unless you bring the wide mode down to REC 709 color positions (and we know that cannot even be done correctly with green - which will eliminate the incorrect x and y coordinates) they will continue to be incorrect and fiction compared to the original correct colors.
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post #131 of 2680 Old 02-10-2009, 06:10 AM
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Hi ninthdragon,

I really don't understand where you came up with the idea that I calibrate to my own standard. I have been at this a long time. I have always calibrated to either Rec601 or more recently to Rec709 since Hollywood is finally beginning to transfer in HD color space. I am also the one responsible for putting Rec601, Rec709, and EBU color spaces in the new Epson Pro Cinema 7500UB. I really can't stand it when people put words in my mouth that I never uttered.

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post #132 of 2680 Old 02-10-2009, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Monitorman View Post

Hi ninthdragon,

I really don't understand where you came up with the idea that I calibrate to my own standard. I have been at this a long time. I have always calibrated to either Rec601 or more recently to Rec709 since Hollywood is finally beginning to transfer in HD color space. I am also the one responsible for putting Rec601, Rec709, and EBU color spaces in the new Epson Pro Cinema 7500UB. I really can't stand it when people put words in my mouth that I never uttered.

I didn't read ninthdragon's post to mean that you would calibrate to something other than Rec601 or Rec709 as BeachComber so conveniently did. I took his post to mean that your standards are high and you would calibrate his set properly.
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post #133 of 2680 Old 02-10-2009, 06:04 PM
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I didn't read ninthdragon's post to mean that you would calibrate to something other than Rec601 or Rec709 as BeachComber so conveniently did. I took his post to mean that your standards are high and you would calibrate his set properly.

Thank you gsr - that is exactly what I meant. I apologize to Monitorman and anyone else that I may have misled here. That was not my intent. I believe that Kevin's accomplishments speak for themselves - that's why I asked him to calibrate my set. His work is first rate and he continues to enjoy my highest recommendation. Thank you again. I'll just shut up for now, to avoid confusing anyone else.

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post #134 of 2680 Old 02-11-2009, 02:12 AM
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Anyone else notice that all of TrevEB's earlier posts have been removed-deleted, what gives there?
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post #135 of 2680 Old 02-11-2009, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Anyone else notice that all of TrevEB's earlier posts have been removed-deleted, what gives there?

I can see at least one of TrevEB's most recent posts. Are you sure you haven't set up an "ignore" rule for TrevEb?

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post #136 of 2680 Old 02-11-2009, 05:37 AM
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Nah, there were a lot more. Including a post with some unflattering screen caps. I'm sure he deleted them due to all the grief he got over them.

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post #137 of 2680 Old 02-11-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

It was my LaserVue TV that umr Calibrated on Sunday.

John, thanks for the World's First professional calibration report for a laser display!

Of course I've included a link to your report in the RPTV (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #138 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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the sales manager at the place I bought the LaserVue said " Its still a "Phosphor" technology and it will deteriorate just like all other Plasmas". He said the Kuro was the best set "out of the box" but over time (depending on how much TV you watch) it will do what all plasmas do. When people bring back plasmas after 3 years you can see dullness compared to new plasmas.
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post #139 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Where do you get the LV demo disk??
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post #140 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by buckscountyguy View Post

the sales manager at the place I bought the LaserVue said " Its still a "Phosphor" technology and it will deteriorate just like all other Plasmas". He said the Kuro was the best set "out of the box" but over time (depending on how much TV you watch) it will do what all plasmas do. When people bring back plasmas after 3 years you can see dullness compared to new plasmas.

That sounds suspiciously like a commissioned salesperson, trying to 'guide' you to something that he has in stock.

Everything that I have read (and I am far from being an expert) regarding the LaserVue television is that it is simply a DLP using red, blue & green lasers as light source. To the best of my knowledge there is no 'phosphor' technology involved what so ever in either DLP or LaserVue.

Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

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post #141 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by buckscountyguy View Post

Its still a "Phosphor" technology and it will deteriorate just like all other Plasmas". He said the Kuro was the best set "out of the box" but over time (depending on how much TV you watch) it will do what all plasmas do. When people bring back plasmas after 3 years you can see dullness compared to new plasmas.

Your salesman was right, but his time frame is wrong. The mean time to half the "new" brightness for a Pioneer Kuro is 60,000 hours. That's 2,500 days (6.8 years) of 24 hour operation, or 10.3 years at 16 hours per day. For me it's 41 years at four hours per day.

I've had a salesman at a Mitsubishi dealer tell me that the LaserVue we were looking at didn't have a DLP chip like the old fashioned Mitsubishi DLP displays. It was all done with lasers.

That was in the very store where John bought his LaserVue. Beware of "salesmen"!
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post #142 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

Spence

I can, and so can almost everyone else who posts in this thread. The DLP chip reflects the light source to create an image. Laser is one of three light sources currently being used in RPTV displays. Without the DLP chip there's no pretty image on the screen -- just light.
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post #143 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I can, and so can almost everyone else who posts in this thread. The DLP chip reflects the light source to create an image. Laser is one of three light sources currently being used in RPTV displays. Without the DLP chip there's no pretty image on the screen -- just light.

Yes - but my assertation that LaserVue (which I had already pointed out uses a DLP chip for display) does not rely upon any type of phosphor technology for display, and so would not fall prey to phosphor phade... er 'fade'.

Are we correct in this? In that the sales manager was blowing smoke?

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post #144 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

Yes - but my assertation that LaserVue (which I had already pointed out uses a DLP chip for display) does not rely upon any type of phosphor technology for display, and so would not fall prey to phosphor phade... er 'fade'.

Are we correct in this? In that the sales manager was blowing smoke?

Spence

I understood that the salesman in question was referring to plasma displays while selling the LaserVue to the poster.

Quote:


the sales manager at the place I bought the LaserVue said:

Quote:


" It (meaning the Kuro) is still a "Phosphor" technology and it (the Kuro) will deteriorate just like all other Plasmas". He said the Kuro was the best set "out of the box" but over time (depending on how much TV you watch) it will do what all plasmas do. When people bring back plasmas after 3 years you can see dullness compared to new plasmas.

If I'm wrong, then the salesman (manager) was insane.
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post #145 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I understood that the salesman in question was referring to plasma displays while selling the LaserVue to the poster.



If I'm wrong, then the salesman (manager) was insane.

I see that I must have taken it out of context.
Quote:


the sales manager at the place I bought the LaserVue said " Its still a "Phosphor" technology and it will deteriorate just like all other Plasmas".

was in response to an earlier post, , which had not been quoted, most likely speaking about plasma technology, so you are correct.

I took the 'it' in
Quote:


the sales manager at the place I bought the LaserVue said " Its still a "Phosphor" technology

to mean that he was referring to the LaserVue as "it", and that
Quote:


"it will deteriorate just like all other plasmas"

You are correct sir!

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post #146 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SpenceJT View Post

I see that I must have taken it out of context.

It is a confussing word.
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post #147 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 12:49 PM
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It is a confussing word.

So is Confusing apparently (sorry, couldn't resist)

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post #148 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 12:51 PM
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So is “Confusing” apparently… (sorry, couldn't resist)

That's so good I'm not going to correct it.
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post #149 of 2680 Old 02-12-2009, 03:28 PM
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Bro rule #74 - Bros don't spel chekc

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post #150 of 2680 Old 02-13-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the confusion. That sales manager laughed at the 60,000 hour (marketing hype)comment. He said his experience with 2-3 year old plasmas show fading when they come in for repair. They get to compare to new plasmas. Us using plasma with no comparison in the same room might not notice it. I loved my 7 year old Samsung DLP then when I brought this LaserVue in I couldn't believe how bad the Samsung looked! This LaserVue with High Def with Verizon FIOS seems hard to beat. Just my opionion.
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