samsung led dlp no longer made what to buy? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 94 Old 01-29-2009, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lomarica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
New to the group looks like there is a lot of good advice out there.
I am deciding between the sammy 67" led dlp and the mits 65 dlp. I know I am not the first one with this decision. However I have just learned that samsung will no longer make the dlp led in 2009.
so my question is should that matter?. My concern of course is if anything goes wrong how will they fix or replace the unit if it is no longer being manufactured? Or even if I get an extended warranty and something goes wrong in say three years am I SOL?

finally any advice on which is a better unit for picture quality? I can live with changing a bulb every three years or so if the Mits is really a better picture and I know they put our more heat and take more power. My main concern is picture quality and long term reliability.

thanks
Andrew
lomarica is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 07:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mes444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Long term reliability is not a strong point when you talk about rear projection tvs. The knock on them is their frequency of repair and long term non-reliability. I have a bulb dlp and have had it for 3 years and it's been fine, but many others have had many problems. DLP is more prone to problems due to the moving parts, light tunnels, color wheels (bulb) and some LED lites failing within the first year, etc. Possibilities for problems which LCDs do not have.

So, if you were to buy a rear projection now, you'll get an excellent price on a big screen. In a few years, repair will probably get more difficult, especially Samsung as they are getting out of the business. If you get lucky, your tv will be fine, if not, and you get an extended warranty, you'll probably end up with an LCD in exchange.

I don't know about Mits., only Sammys.
mes444 is offline  
post #3 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 08:04 AM
Senior Member
 
rmz76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mes444 View Post

... If you get lucky, your tv will be fine, if not, and you get an extended warranty, you'll probably end up with an LCD in exchange.

A forced warranty replacement scenario (due to lack of parts for repair) would be very interesting since Samsung does not manufactuer 67" LCD or Plasma displays. The biggest screen offering they have outside DLP is their 63" Plasma and that set retails for about twice what the 67A750 is going for.

Assuming Samsung continues making DLPs into 2009 (we don't have any clear indications that they are immediately stopping production.... only rumors started by a sudden 10% drop in the street price in mid January and the rumor that Best Buy is going to stop carrying rear projection HDTVs altogether at the end of 2nd quarter). Realistically Samsung will probably have repair parts available for at least 2 years after production stops since they have to honor their 1 year warranty.

One last note: the 61A750 and 67A750 do not have color wheels so no moving parts or bulb replacement in those... I am wondering if it wouldn't be worthwhile to purchase a replacement set of LEDs just in case.
rmz76 is offline  
post #4 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 08:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wnorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Don't count on getting an LCD in exchange, at least not from Best Buy. I had a Best Buy PSP on a 50" Samsung DLP. The set just broke (November), and BB wouldn't even attempt a repair. They just "lemoned" it immediately.

Stores no longer carry them in the 50" size. So all the store wanted to do was give me a $1000 gift card, with the cheapest name brand 52" LCD costing $1600 (so $600 out of pocket). The cheapest name brand 46" was $1300 (so $300 out of pocket). Best Buy refused to switch from DLP to LCD. They said a PSP swap had to be DLP for DLP, LCD for LCD, Plasma for Plasma. If no DLP is available, you get a store credit. They won't give an LCD for a DLP, despite the warranty stating you get a comparable new TV (they claim no comparable set exists any longer).

Best Buy also told me that if the repair cost exceeded 50% of the junk out credit, then they wouldn't even attempt to repair the set. That is why mine was lemoned on repair attempt #1 (diagnosis was that a new light engine was needed). So any light engine replacement is going to cost over 50% of the store credit they would issue you ($1000 in my case, so any repair over $500 parts and labor would result in a lemon on a 50" DLP).

So with their PSP, it essentially will only cover a bulb replacement, color wheel failure, and maybe a digital/analog board failure. Just about anything else, or any combination of two will result in a junk out.

This was a replacement for a set I paid $3600 for about 2.5 years ago. I was only getting $1000 credit today. So if you buy a $1500 DLP now with a PSP, they won't be carrying any DLP's in less than a year. So if your set lemons two years from now, what do you think they are going to give you? Maybe $500 on a gift card towards the purchase of a new LCD?

DLP is dead. A service plan isn't really worth it, at least not at Best Buy. On the larger DLP's, you will pay $300 for a service plan that may net you $500 towards the purchase of a new TV 2-3 years down the road.

DLP = Disposable Light Projection
wnorris is offline  
post #5 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 08:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wnorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post

A forced warranty replacement scenario (due to lack of parts for repair) would be very interesting since Samsung does not manufactuer 67" LCD or Plasma displays. The biggest screen offering they have outside DLP is their 63" Plasma and that set retails for about twice what the 67A750 is going for.

Assuming Samsung continues making DLPs into 2009 (we don't have any clear indications that they are immediately stopping production.... only rumors started by a sudden 10% drop in the street price in mid January and the rumor that Best Buy is going to stop carrying rear projection HDTVs altogether at the end of 2nd quarter). Realistically Samsung will probably have repair parts available for at least 2 years after production stops since they have to honor their 1 year warranty.

One last note: the 61A750 and 67A750 do not have color wheels so no moving parts or bulb replacement in those... I am wondering if it wouldn't be worthwhile to purchase a replacement set of LEDs just in case.


Didn't Samsung say at CES that no new DLP models would be made in 2009, and that 2008 models were only going to be made until they ran out of parts? I thought I read an interview with Samsung's CEO that stated as much...
wnorris is offline  
post #6 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mes444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yes, Sammy dlps are dead as far as I know. And what I meant about a replacement lcd was some warranty companies give you a credit for the amount you paid for your tv towards a new tv if yours is unrepairable. Not an equal size tv, an equal price credit.

But with all the economic uncertainty now, who know which warranty companies will be around in a few years. So I think if you want a dlp, I actually saw the 61A750 for less than $1000 recently, I'd say buy it, register it with samsung and get 15 months warranty, and forget about extended warranties. 15 Months for a 61" tv for less than a grand, sounds like a good purchase.
mes444 is offline  
post #7 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 10:12 AM
Senior Member
 
rmz76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Don't count on getting an LCD in exchange, at least not from Best Buy. I had a Best Buy PSP on a 50" Samsung DLP. The set just broke (November), and BB wouldn't even attempt a repair. They just "lemoned" it immediately.

Stores no longer carry them in the 50" size. So all the store wanted to do was give me a $1000 gift card, with the cheapest name brand 52" LCD costing $1600 (so $600 out of pocket). The cheapest name brand 46" was $1300 (so $300 out of pocket). Best Buy refused to switch from DLP to LCD. They said a PSP swap had to be DLP for DLP, LCD for LCD, Plasma for Plasma. If no DLP is available, you get a store credit. They won't give an LCD for a DLP, despite the warranty stating you get a comparable new TV (they claim no comparable set exists any longer).

Best Buy also told me that if the repair cost exceeded 50% of the junk out credit, then they wouldn't even attempt to repair the set. That is why mine was lemoned on repair attempt #1 (diagnosis was that a new light engine was needed). So any light engine replacement is going to cost over 50% of the store credit they would issue you ($1000 in my case, so any repair over $500 parts and labor would result in a lemon on a 50" DLP).

So with their PSP, it essentially will only cover a bulb replacement, color wheel failure, and maybe a digital/analog board failure. Just about anything else, or any combination of two will result in a junk out.

This was a replacement for a set I paid $3600 for about 2.5 years ago. I was only getting $1000 credit today. So if you buy a $1500 DLP now with a PSP, they won't be carrying any DLP's in less than a year. So if your set lemons two years from now, what do you think they are going to give you? Maybe $500 on a gift card towards the purchase of a new LCD?

DLP is dead. A service plan isn't really worth it, at least not at Best Buy. On the larger DLP's, you will pay $300 for a service plan that may net you $500 towards the purchase of a new TV 2-3 years down the road.

DLP = Disposable Light Projection

Best Buy is notorious for their extended warranty service ON ANY PRODUCT. Many years ago I worked in retail management and bonuses were issued off how many extended warranties we could sell... These are pure gold for retailers. I once went through 3 DVD players over a 2 year period (extreemly bad luck I guess) and decided to actually bite the bullet and buy an extended warranty on a DVD player through BB once... Six months and 3 exchanges later they finally issued me a store credit for $50 (on a $160 player).

On almost any item extended warranties are an absolute scam. Their is a bell curve on probability of defect on any item... the extended warranty kicks in where the defect is least likely to surface... when customer actually does have to cash in on the agreement often they are left very unsatisfied and wondering exactly what they paid for...

Had you contacted Samsung directly do you really think you $3600 DLP would have cost more than $2600 in repairs? It seems to me, had you not purchased the BB service agreement you could have probably spent under $1500 with Samsung to get the set repaired outside of warranty... Just out of curiosity did you contact Samsung and see what a light engine replacement would cost?
rmz76 is offline  
post #8 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 10:17 AM
Senior Member
 
rmz76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post


DLP = Disposable Light Projection

I don't think anyone will argue DLP rear projection is a dead technology now... but since the LED DLP sets do not have a color wheel or bulb the 'light engine' is significantly different is it not? Seems like it wouldn't be fair to categorize all DLP technology this way....

The thing that really strike me about this news is that the durability of DLP technology in general was one it's strong selling points? Were we all had?
rmz76 is offline  
post #9 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 11:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mes444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Were we all had?.....Maybe. Or maybe they thought they'd last a long time and the bulb would keep it like new. I think that's the more likely answer. But, as things sometimes do, dlp didn't work out as expected, too flawed, too complicated, etc.

So, time to move on. Super cheap dlp=OK. Otherwise I like LCDs.
mes444 is offline  
post #10 of 94 Old 01-30-2009, 11:35 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
HT Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Isle of Kent, MD USA
Posts: 1,464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mes444 View Post

Were we all had?.....Maybe. Or maybe they thought they'd last a long time and the bulb would keep it like new. I think that's the more likely answer. But, as things sometimes do, dlp didn't work out as expected, too flawed, too complicated, etc.

So, time to move on. Super cheap dlp=OK. Otherwise I like LCDs.

I just bought another DLP. There is no screen door effect. No matter how much I like other qualities of the LCD and Plasma, my eyes see the screen regardless of how far back I sit. The monitor in front of me right now is set to 1600X1200 and I see the screen.

I purposely walked up to my Mits 57831 the other evening and tried my darndest to find any artifact of a "pixel". Impossible, wobulation, or whatever it is works superbly to blend the edges of the little rectangles reflected by the mirrors.

So a brand new WD65735 is in the back of my vehicle today. Ready to be set up in the Living Room.

I do have three LCD TVs for the bedrooms. Fine for casual viewing on relatively small screens. Two 32 inch 720 and one 42 inch 1080.

Jerry the HT Nut
HT Nut is offline  
post #11 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 01:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wnorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post

Had you contacted Samsung directly do you really think you $3600 DLP would have cost more than $2600 in repairs? It seems to me, had you not purchased the BB service agreement you could have probably spent under $1500 with Samsung to get the set repaired outside of warranty... Just out of curiosity did you contact Samsung and see what a light engine replacement would cost?

Well, the estimate to Best Buy said the light engine was $693 plus $350 labor. So the estimate was $1043 to replace the light engine, with a 90 day parts and labor warranty on the repair.

Best Buy refused to have it repaired because they knew they could lemon the set and issue me a gift card for $1000, which is cheaper for them. After complaining up to the corporate level, a corporate rep finally told me that any repair that costs over 50% of the credit you would get from the lemon replacement process will result in an automatic lemon regardless of the number of repair attempts. So the max repair they will allow is based on some current value Best Buy assigns to your set, not what you paid (in the past, I know Best Buy based it off what you paid originally).

However, my experience with repairing DLP is that it is senseless to do so out of your own pocket. It's too expensive, and you are going to have to keep doing so every 2-3 years, if not sooner. They are a money pit. And who would pay for a $1043 repair bill when places are closing out new 50" DLP sets for under $1000? An old repaired set with a 90 day warranty would cost you more out of pocket than a new set with a 1 year warranty.

Thus DLP = Disposable in the case of any major repair. Maybe I'm just unlucky that both the DLP sets I owned needed light engines in under 3 years. But from the number of light engine replacements I've seen on these forums, I think that is a fairly common repair unfortunately...
wnorris is offline  
post #12 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 02:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wnorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post

I don't think anyone will argue DLP rear projection is a dead technology now... but since the LED DLP sets do not have a color wheel or bulb the 'light engine' is significantly different is it not? Seems like it wouldn't be fair to categorize all DLP technology this way....

The thing that really strike me about this news is that the durability of DLP technology in general was one it's strong selling points? Were we all had?

Not really, the light engine is a $600+ part with a major labor bill for LED or regular bulb/color wheel. Other than the light source, there is really no other difference in light engines (both still have light tunnels, mirrors, DMD, lense and other circuitry. LED may be worse to own because Samsung has already ran out of many A750 parts (the 61A750 light engine is one of them), so component swaps are no longer an option. Now techs must take sets back to their shop and attempt board level repairs, or buy refurb components from secondary sources qualified to do board level repairs.

If a light engine fails in almost every case you will just be better off trashing the set and getting a new one. So I think it is fair to say all DLP is disposable, whether LED or regular bulb. Only minor repairs will make sense on a cost basis.

My advice to anyone considering buying a new DLP set: Don't count on your set lasting for more than three years. Be prepared that if it should break down, you will just junk it and buy a new set. I'm not saying not to buy a DLP, but just know what to expect. With the current low prices, they still aren't a bad deal. My local rental place charges $160 a month to rent a 42" LCD. So for less than a years rental price, you can get a 61" DLP, which should last you three years. So it is still a good cost prospect for certain demographics. But don't think you are going to buy this $1000 TV and it willl last you 10-15 years. Not going to happen with DLP.
wnorris is offline  
post #13 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:12 AM
Member
 
Tow Mater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lomarica View Post

New to the group looks like there is a lot of good advice out there.
I am deciding between the sammy 67" led dlp and the mits 65 dlp. I know I am not the first one with this decision. However I have just learned that samsung will no longer make the dlp led in 2009.
so my question is should that matter?. My concern of course is if anything goes wrong how will they fix or replace the unit if it is no longer being manufactured? Or even if I get an extended warranty and something goes wrong in say three years am I SOL?

finally any advice on which is a better unit for picture quality? I can live with changing a bulb every three years or so if the Mits is really a better picture and I know they put our more heat and take more power. My main concern is picture quality and long term reliability.

thanks
Andrew

If your main concern is PQ, get the Samsung. If you should have any issues within the first 15 months your covered under warranty. Call and ask Samsung how they might handle a future potential problem under warranty. Do your research on extended warranty providers and if you find a reputable provider with a plan that makes sense to you, buy it. Longevity depends on several factors e.g. use, maintenance, installation location, part defects, design flaws, quality control, etc. DLP is widely used outside of RPTV's and it is not dying. Some people never have an issue with their equipment, and some people seem to be cursed. Keep in mind that sites like this are magnets for people who are experiencing problems with their A/V and are looking for answers so things can appear worse that they actually are. Good Luck!

The pattern of human vice and folly is to make impulsive choices based upon inflated conceits about what they know and then make defensive excuses for their bad choices. Break the cycle.
Tow Mater is offline  
post #14 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

DLP is dead.

Hardly. You might make this case for RPTV, though Mitsubishi says they are dedicated to the technology for at least a couple of years. There will continue to be lots of projectors using DLP technology as it is a very nice solution to lots of the problems with other technologies.

DLP = Disposable Light Projection[/quote]

Only for some models, like the early Samsung lamp based sets with the repeatedly failing color wheels and light tunnels...or the first gen Mitsubishis with the capacitor problems. Others have been quite reliable, and the DMD itself has been probably the most reliable display device ever made.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #15 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:23 AM
Member
 
aVOLanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Hardly. You might make this case for RPTV, though Mitsubishi says they are dedicated to the technology for at least a couple of years. There will continue to be lots of projectors using DLP technology as it is a very nice solution to lots of the problems with other technologies.

DLP = Disposable Light Projection

Only for some models, like the early Samsung lamp based sets with the repeatedly failing color wheels and light tunnels...or the first gen Mitsubishis with the capacitor problems. Others have been quite reliable, and the DMD itself has been probably the most reliable display device ever made.[/quote]



lcaillo,
Would you purchase an led based Samsung(HL61A750) set as it appears they are phasing out?Still seems like a good price for a big screen.My other choice is a Mits WD-65735...
aVOLanche is offline  
post #16 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have not been a fan of the Samsungs from a servicer's perspective. Too many seemingly random problems in addition to the patterns of failures like the CW & LT. That said, I have not seen many problems with the LED based sets. There is some question about the color reproduction on them, but frankly, I have not calibrated nor serviced any of them. They just don't seem to have been that popular in this market. Lots of owners seem to love them, though, so I suspect that if you like the way it looks it is a pretty good value.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #17 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:36 AM
Member
 
aVOLanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

I have not been a fan of the Samsungs from a servicer's perspective. Too many seemingly random problems in addition to the patterns of failures like the CW & LT. That said, I have not seen many problems with the LED based sets. There is some question about the color reproduction on them, but frankly, I have not calibrated nor serviced any of them. They just don't seem to have been that popular in this market. Lots of owners seem to love them, though, so I suspect that if you like the way it looks it is a pretty good value.

Thanks,I have a replacement set coming from an extended warrantee.So it will be a dlp as mentioned above.Do you have a preference betwen the Mits dlp and the Sammy led/dlp as I'll have to get one or the other.I'm more interested in reliability than anything else due to the situation with dlp's in general.Thanks again!!! Fred
aVOLanche is offline  
post #18 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Some seem to be having light engine problems with the recent Mits sets, but the dealer that I service that sells a lot of them have not seen them. IME, I'd take the Mits, particularly the latest models that calibrate better than the earlier ones. Mitsubishi also seems to be more willing to accomodate customers when they have problems than Samsung. Lots of folks get accomodation on repairs on sets that are well beyond the original warranty with Mitsubishi. They have been covering lots of repairs on the first gen sets with the cap failures and those are 4 years old.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #19 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
Quentin2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by aVOLanche View Post

Thanks,I have a replacement set coming from an extended warrantee.So it will be a dlp as mentioned above.Do you have a preference betwen the Mits dlp and the Sammy led/dlp as I'll have to get one or the other.I'm more interested in reliability than anything else due to the situation with dlp's in general.Thanks again!!! Fred

Samsung also makes A650 lamp models so if those also turn up as a replacement option don't rule them out before a look-see. Mine has been a great HDTV and no problems so far (7 months). Of course get what you like best, just remember the A650 may be another option.

2008 Samsung HLxxA650/Series 6 DLP Thread/FAQ
HD DVDs: 235
BD: 20
DVD: Too Many!

Free Men Do Not Ask Permission to Bear Arms
Quentin2 is offline  
post #20 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Samsung lamp based sets are favorites of service techs...lots of us are putting our kids through college with them. The more recent ones may be better but no way to tell for another year or so...

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #21 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Quentin2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ouch! That hurt!

2008 Samsung HLxxA650/Series 6 DLP Thread/FAQ
HD DVDs: 235
BD: 20
DVD: Too Many!

Free Men Do Not Ask Permission to Bear Arms
Quentin2 is offline  
post #22 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 11:17 AM
Member
 
Tow Mater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

That said, I have not seen many problems with the LED based sets. There is some question about the color reproduction on them, but frankly, I have not calibrated nor serviced any of them..

Color rendition on the A750 is excellent and the fact that you haven't serviced any suggests something about the quality of them.

The pattern of human vice and folly is to make impulsive choices based upon inflated conceits about what they know and then make defensive excuses for their bad choices. Break the cycle.
Tow Mater is offline  
post #23 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 11:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tow Mater View Post

Color rendition on the A750 is excellent and the fact that you haven't serviced any suggests something about the quality of them.

Many have noted that the color is not as good as the lamp based sets, likely due to the narrow spectrum of the LEDs combined with the color decoding matrix in the sets. The degree to which this is an issue is unclear to me as I have not had a chance to work with them. As far as the reliability, I cannot say. The fact that I have not seen any for either service or calibration tells me that they are not being sold in this market very much, and conversations with the dealers here confirms this. Techs in other markets have seen some of them, but most of what I hear about are geometry issues. The sets are really too new to make any assumptions about, just like the newer lamp based sets. There is little reason, IME, to suspect that Samsung radically changed the build quality for the last few generations of the product category, however, which is why I am skeptical.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #24 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 12:29 PM
Senior Member
 
rmz76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Many have noted that the color is not as good as the lamp based sets, likely due to the narrow spectrum of the LEDs combined with the color decoding matrix in the sets.

Interesting... then why is it the current bulb based DLP Mitsubishi (i.e. their entire line, with exception of the Diamond series) fail to meet standards, while the Samsung LEDs don't seem to have this issue? To me this is pretty easy for anyone to compare on a showroom floor, but here is what CNet's reviewer had to say

Rear-pros may be a dying breed, but if you're looking to get 61 inches for less than $2,000 (street price), the Samsung HL61A750 is an excellent performer and handily beats the comparable Mitsubishi WD-65735.

Source:
http://reviews.cnet.com/projection-t...&tag=mncol;lst


Regarding the current Mitsubishi 700 series here's what CNet had to say...

As for "Perfect Color," it is a dubious feature that allows qualified technicians to effect some improvement in the color decoding. Unfortunately, considering how inaccurate the color decoding and primary colors are (see below), Perfect Color is a bit like a Band-Aid on a gushing bullet wound.

http://reviews.cnet.com/projection-t...?tag=mncol;txt

Another review states this problem did not effect the 800 series Diamond series. To me it's a no-brainer, bulb based DLPs have a color wheel, which is powered by an electric motor that will eventually have to be replaced (and is immediately prone to problems). Some DLP LED's owners have reported issues, but the lack of a color wheel means no moving parts and that's a a big step forward in reducing maintenance (or I should say was since they are getting discontinued, but that has little to do with the technology and more with consumer buying habits). Putting any defects aside, 60000 hour rated LEDs are certainly more cost effective and hazel free than bulb based technology and (this is a big one) NO RAINBOW EFFECT. I can see rainbows on bulb DLPs (guess I'm one of the unlucky fee), I don't see them on my LED set this did affect my buying decision as well.
rmz76 is offline  
post #25 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 12:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Artwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Posts: 4,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 216
If you really want a decent rear projection set buy the upcoming 2009 diamond series Mitsubishi and make it a 73-inch.

It will probably be the last year for DLP--though bulb based it will be the best one they will ever make--and there is no substitute for 73 inches.

Buy alot of replacerent bulbs now--you may not be able to find them in the future.
Artwood is offline  
post #26 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 01:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Mits PerfectColor is useless to most consumers and is only useful if you have the meter and software and expertise to adjust the luma for each color. The PerfectTint is more useful, allowing one to calibrate the secondaries nicely if you have the equipment, but again, for a consumer not having the equipment, both are pointless. As for the color wheel issue, this has never been an issue with the better DLP sets. Samsung and RCA made it a problem by using cheap bearings in their sets. There are pros and cons to both lines, and to the LED vs lamp systems, and even the laser sets that Mits is bringing out. Overall, in terms of customer satisfaction, Mitsubishi has generally had good products and been responsive to customers requesting accomodation on sets well out of warranty when they have had patterns of failure. Samsung has been difficult, at best on these matters. Samsung bought market share with cheaply made products with great performance, but the service difference is pretty striking.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #27 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 06:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
Quentin2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Many have noted that the color is not as good as the lamp based sets, likely due to the narrow spectrum of the LEDs combined with the color decoding matrix in the sets. The degree to which this is an issue is unclear to me as I have not had a chance to work with them. As far as the reliability, I cannot say. The fact that I have not seen any for either service or calibration tells me that they are not being sold in this market very much, and conversations with the dealers here confirms this. Techs in other markets have seen some of them, but most of what I hear about are geometry issues. The sets are really too new to make any assumptions about, just like the newer lamp based sets. There is little reason, IME, to suspect that Samsung radically changed the build quality for the last few generations of the product category, however, which is why I am skeptical.

lcaillo, thank you for your opinions, it's great to get a qualified technician such as yourself to post here and share your knowledge!

As far as Samsung's reliability in the 2008 LED and Lamp DLPs wouldn't it be reasonable to expect they would correct problems that caused service issues and returns in earlier models? I know they quickly moved away from the slimcase HLT in 2007 as it was a nightmare for them.

2008 Samsung HLxxA650/Series 6 DLP Thread/FAQ
HD DVDs: 235
BD: 20
DVD: Too Many!

Free Men Do Not Ask Permission to Bear Arms
Quentin2 is offline  
post #28 of 94 Old 01-31-2009, 10:05 PM
Member
 
Tow Mater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Many have noted that the color is not as good as the lamp based sets, Which lamp based sets? likely due to the narrow spectrum of the LEDs combined with the color decoding matrix in the sets. The degree to which this is an issue is unclear to me as I have not had a chance to work with them. Why even bother commenting on the "issue" if you really don't know either way? As far as the reliability, I cannot say. Hey, you said it. The fact that I have not seen any for either service or calibration tells me that they are not being sold in this market very much, and conversations with the dealers here confirms this. Actually, the exact opposite is true. The A750's are selling like hotcakes! Techs in other markets have seen some of them, but most of what I hear about are geometry issues. Might this be an indication of the LED based sets reliability? The sets are really too new to make any assumptions about, just like the newer lamp based sets. And yet, based on issues pertaining to previous lamp based models, you do just that. Haven't the LED based sets been on the market for 3 years now? If so, given the amount of hours put on a typical set per day, wouldn't that be enough usage to expose any widespread reliability issues? There is little reason, IME, to suspect that Samsung radically changed the build quality for the last few generations of the product category, however, which is why I am skeptical. Could one not argue that the introduction of the LED was a radical change to improve their DLP TV's quality?


The pattern of human vice and folly is to make impulsive choices based upon inflated conceits about what they know and then make defensive excuses for their bad choices. Break the cycle.
Tow Mater is offline  
post #29 of 94 Old 02-01-2009, 06:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lcaillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 3,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
TowMater, we are both speculating. As I said, we really don't know whether the LED sets will be more reliable than the lamp based sets. The LED seems to be, but the other parts may not be. My point was not to argue that they are or are not, but that we don't know. Your point seems to be to justify the LED sets as a good choice. I will not debate the matter, as I don't have direct experience with them. I do take issue with your debating tactics, which place your obviously biased view against my attempt to present the matter more objectively and share my experience. My experience may not be right, but it is what it is. For instance, I doubt that you have spoken to the dealers in my market, who I said have not sold a lot of the LED sets. Yet you inserted your comment that they are selling well.

We get the point. You believe that they are great sets. I am not willing to jump to that conclusion. Enough people have indicated concern with the color performance, and Samsung has a clear record of building DLP RPTV cheap to buy market share. Lots of people are very happy with them and they do seem to be a fairly good value, but I am not sure that they are a better choice than the Mitsubishi lamp based set. You seem to be certain. I am not. I expressed my opinion and experience and others can take it for what it is worth. Personally, I think people like you, who argue for a particular product based on such speculative information and relatively little experience, do not seem very credible.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
lcaillo is offline  
post #30 of 94 Old 02-01-2009, 06:34 AM
Member
 
aVOLanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

TowMater, we are both speculating. As I said, we really don't know whether the LED sets will be more reliable than the lamp based sets. The LED seems to be, but the other parts may not be. My point was not to argue that they are or are not, but that we don't know. Your point seems to be to justify the LED sets as a good choice. I will not debate the matter, as I don't have direct experience with them. I do take issue with your debating tactics, which place your obviously biased view against my attempt to present the matter more objectively and share my experience. My experience may not be right, but it is what it is. For instance, I doubt that you have spoken to the dealers in my market, who I said have not sold a lot of the LED sets. Yet you inserted your comment that they are selling well.

We get the point. You believe that they are great sets. I am not willing to jump to that conclusion. Enough people have indicated concern with the color performance, and Samsung has a clear record of building DLP RPTV cheap to buy market share. Lots of people are very happy with them and they do seem to be a fairly good value, but I am not sure that they are a better choice than the Mitsubishi lamp based set. You seem to be certain. I am not. I expressed my opinion and experience and others can take it for what it is worth. Personally, I think people like you, who argue for a particular product based on such speculative information and relatively little experience, do not seem very credible.

I agree,lcaillo......he's a "fanboy".Ijust got back from HHGregg where I saw both sets side-by-side.The Samsung looks good,but there is no way to adjust it for pure white.The Mits is simply better in this regard.Whites on the Samsung are too warm or too green depending on how you adjust the TV.It's not extreme,but it's easily evident especially in an A/B comparison.If a true white cannot be obtained,other colors will always be tainted.

Regarding reliability.......it's often,as you mention,more of whether the company is willing to take care of the customer than whether one set is a little more reliable in general.I have read many mentions of Samsung being very difficult to deal with.I've also read the same for Mitsubishi,but to a much lesser degree.

Thanks for your input as I try to decide between these 2 dlp sets.You are obviously not "married" to a brand and are giving excellent advice.
aVOLanche is offline  
Reply Rear Projection Units

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off